Will there be blood?

[albrecht]

The more I read on this Bundy guy the worse he sounds.

When you grow up in cattle country, cattle are going to mess things up and usually the rancher will come by and you handle things face to face. Many ranchers work very hard to keep their cattle from harming private property. But there are always a couple of guys that couldn't care less about what their cattle do to your property or what part of your farm they graze on. When it reaches the point people are filing complaints with the government, that means the rancher doesn't give a shit about what part of your farm he destroyed. This Bundy guy sounds like he doesn't give a shit about anyone.

If you saw the town meeting and the protestors the vast amount of the local community is supporting Bundy against the BLM. They didn't want the revised regulations and wanted to continue to graze cattle in that area. It would seem that the Federal government (and possibly the solar-power interests and some environmental lobbyists) are the ones against Bundy. And there is a long, sordid history of ranchers vs BLM, free-range vs fences, water right disputes, big companies vs independents, etc so it wouldn't surprise if people are using the Bundy dispute for their own agendas (separate the Bundy issue to focus more on the BLM practices in general). And then we get the crazy militia types some of whom seem to be just itching for some new Lexington to occur.
http://kfor.com/2014/04/09/community-supports-nevada-rancher-in-standoff-with-federal-government/

[awake]

Looks bad, but this rancher doesn't want to pay $1 an acre (or less) to graze his cattle is probably going to lose. Other ranchers are willing to pay the $1 an acre and he is screwing them over.

^^ This is right.  I've lived in Vegas for 40+ years and ranching interests up North get a sweet deal from the state.  We in Vegas basically subsidize most of the infrastructure of the Northern ranchers and I'm a bit offended that this guy feels entitled to not even kick in the very low grazing fees.  Oh and by the way, cattle mess up the desert and contribute quite a lot to the dust storms we get by breaking the desert crust with their hooves, so thanks for that too buddy.

[albrecht]

^^ This is right.  I've lived in Vegas for 40+ years and ranching interests up North get a sweet deal from the state.

The whole point is that it is, according the Feds, BLM land. So the state, as you claim, have nothing to do with the Bundy situation that is the flash-point now. In fact he WANTS the state to be involved (he says it should be state land, not federal land.)

[Mind Flayer Monk]

... I'm a bit offended that this guy feels entitled to not even kick in the very low grazing fees...

After taxes and subsidies, the real costs are like $0.30-0.40 cents an acre.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

The whole point is that it is, according the Feds, BLM land. So the state, as you claim, have nothing to do with the Bundy situation that is the flash-point now. In fact he WANTS the state to be involved (he says it should be state land, not federal land.)

The reason it is federal land is because the state can't afford the maintenance on the land as well as absorb lawsuits. In addition to that, there is Nellis Air Force Base nearby. Anyway, why would Bundy want to put that public land in the tender hands of Harry Reid? 
The guy is an asshole and has more cattle than he can manage and now it is someone else's fault.

And he has no right to that land if he does not pay for it.

[albrecht]

The reason it is federal land is because the state can't afford the maintenance on the land as well as absorb lawsuits. In addition to that, there is Nellis Air Force Base nearby. Anyway, why would Bundy want to put that public land in the tender hands of Harry Reid? 
The guy is an asshole and has more cattle than he can manage and now it is someone else's fault.

And he has no right to that land if he does not pay for it.

His point is, I think, 1) his family and others in the areas having been grazing and using the land prior to it even becoming a state or then Federal land and way before the BLM even existed. And the regulatory capture and changing of the rules (no grazing in those vast areas) was not legal (or at least right in his mind- separate from the ownership issue even.)
2) Article 1, Sec. 8, Cl. 17 regarding Federal ownership of land (expressly says for forts, bases, etc and only in express sizes...not for other reasons, like solar power, tortoises, etc.)

But you bring up a good point frequently cited in many circumstances (fishing a prime example all over the world) in that public lands (or seas as we see happen) that "open" or public lands cause over-grazing, over-fishing, etc. "Tragedy of the Commons", etc. Though this could be another argument, maybe, by the Bundy's to say that the land shouldn't be BLM but privately owned or at least owned by the locality (state, county, etc). As regards for "maintenance" cost a private owner could bear those (or the state, county) as it is desert and only the various and sundry lawsuits over turtles, mining, solar, grazing etc cause "maintenance" to be so expensive. Certainly if "costs" were an issue the BLM has already spent more $$ bringing in officers from other states/areas, planes, snipers, trucks, and contractors that in salaries, fuel, over-time, equipment than the initial "bill" owed by Bundy!

[albrecht]

And he has no right to that land if he does not pay for it.

He also, might, I don't know Nevada law, have some claim historically via common law considering adverse possession or, considering his claims (if true) that his family has been on that land working it even prior to the state or federal or BLM "ownership" by homesteading.

[Zoo]

Why do they not just arrest him? Call him a domestic terrorist pick him and his family up put them in jail and throw away the key? Interesting fact the United States owns 86% pluse of the land in Nevada why?

The endangered tortoise is doing fine on that land.

http://youtu.be/f8qxyY2k70g

Someone will do something stupid and it will not matter which side does it people will get hurt. When the first drop of blood is spilled what then? I see this going very badly. I hope I am wrong and I really hope no children will be hurt!!1

[FightTheFuture]

  Interesting fact the United States owns 86% of the land in Nevada why?

The endangered tortoise is doing fine on that land.

http://youtu.be/f8qxyY2k70g

Why? So that walking corpse, Harry Reid, can use it as political capital in his dirty deals.

Christ, I thought everybody knew that.

[Yorkshire pud]

When this revolution kicks off, will the main protagonists be waving; a la French revolution, flags to signify their allegiance to 'the people'? Interesting how this will be marketed, as in pretty much all revolutions that have given it to the man in the past, said revolutions emanate from frustration, anger,starvation, desperation and in many many cases, subjugation. This will be (I think) the first time a revolution has started because of the apparent refusal of one man to pay his way (A tenet that is akin to all other freeloading low life's we read so much about on here).  Will it go by the way of Wako? Will there be live TV feeds and expert analysis from psychologists and weapon manufacturers on the best way for either side to approach the ensuing shoot out? Score cards?

[wr250]

When this revolution kicks off, will the main protagonists be waving; a la French revolution, flags to signify their allegiance to 'the people'? Interesting how this will be marketed, as in pretty much all revolutions that have given it to the man in the past, said revolutions emanate from frustration, anger,starvation, desperation and in many many cases, subjugation. This will be (I think) the first time a revolution has started because of the apparent refusal of one man to pay his way (A tenet that is akin to all other freeloading low life's we read so much about on here).  Will it go by the way of Wako? Will there be live TV feeds and expert analysis from psychologists and weapon manufacturers on the best way for either side to approach the ensuing shoot out? Score cards?

and a castle to launch dead cows at .

I Fart In Your General Direction!

[Little Hater]

And quite honestly, how come none of these militia types showed their head at "free speech zones" before now?

The best question in this thread. The whole United States is (or is supposed to be) a 'free speech zone'.

[Yorkshire pud]

and a castle to launch dead cows at .

I think the reality might be as farcical as that film. It HAS to be televised. I just want to watch as camouflaged up 'patriots' realise with increasing incredulity how very very outnumbered and out weaponed they are. And then make damp patches in the front of their trousers. It will pass without a shot being fired because fundamentally they've seen too much Hollywood and not enough reality when it comes to overthrowing overwhelming odds. They're not Gurkhas when all said and done, they might benefit from reading up on them and how they did it in WW2 against the Japanese.

But as well as barbecue sauces, popcorn and ice cream sales should make a steady turnover.

[albrecht]

They're not Gurkhas when all said and done, they might benefit from reading up on them and how they did it in WW2 against the Japanese.

And it took almost as hard a fight to get them pensions for their loyal duty or even to allow Gurkhas to move to the UK, whereas any Romanian, Pole, or swarthy arab gets a free pass! Amazing considering their loyal and hard fought battles for the Crown!

ps: I hope nothing really does go off. But as you mention the Gurkhas (or just look to Afghanistan and Iraq more recently). It doesn't take much to fight an effective insurgent campaign. Even if not militarily trained. And lest we forget there are many returning soldiers that have been trained and that Obama and his bunch have already called threats and potential enemies. If things really escalate, as some hope on both sides it seems, Americans have a lot of guns and tactical knowledge of IEDs, homemade chem/bio weapons, etc. Sure they can't win against a fully militarized police or army assault. But can take out a lot of people, buildings, etc if motivated. Even a lone sniper can terrorize a city and/or take out key leaders. And deer rifles in high calibers are a-plenty here. Also America is so "diverse" and urbanized that in a panic or civil war situation it could really get ugly once the supply-chain breaks down and food is scarce.

We don't want this to happen though there seems to be some in the government and in the crazed militias who want to escalate for their own perverted reasons.

[Yorkshire pud]

And it took almost as hard a fight to get them pensions for their loyal duty or even to allow Gurkhas to move to the UK, whereas any Romanian, Pole, or swarthy arab gets a free pass! Amazing considering their loyal and hard fought battles for the Crown!

I agree. Although one set of people had nothing to do with the other. The Gurkhas were refused (by some dingbat suit in Whitehall) because they're mercenaries, which is true of course, but in most peoples minds a special case. The second was because Ted Heath in the 70's and successive assholes have got us embroiled in the unaccountable and corrupt edifice that is the (now) EU.

ps: I hope nothing really does go off. But as you mention the Gurkhas (or just look to Afghanistan and Iraq more recently). It doesn't take much to fight an effective insurgent campaign. Even if not militarily trained. And lest we forget there are many returning soldiers that have been trained and that Obama and his bunch have already called threats and potential enemies. If things really escalate, as some hope on both sides it seems, Americans have a lot of guns and tactical knowledge of IEDs, homemade chem/bio weapons, etc. Sure they can't win against a fully militarized police or army assault. But can take out a lot of people, buildings, etc if motivated. Even a lone sniper can terrorize a city and/or take out key leaders. And deer rifles in high calibers are a-plenty here. Also America is so "diverse" and urbanized that in a panic or civil war situation it could really get ugly once the supply-chain breaks down and food is scarce.

Interesting take on it.. If that came to pass, it really should be on the telly. Showing the rest of the world how a 'civilised' country mounts a revolution. You may even get 'advisors' being flown in from Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan to lend their expertise.

But I'm sure you's concede it's all a bit over the top when the row is about where the cows are going to chew their cud?

We don't want this to happen though there seems to be some in the government and in the crazed militias who want to escalate for their own perverted reasons.

Yeah, but you'll get that from all sides in any conflict when they've been overdoing the artificial colours and reading about the latest adventures of Hulk, Superman, and Batman.

[albrecht]

But I'm sure you's concede it's all a bit over the top when the row is about where the cows are going to chew their cud?

It is "over the top" on all sides. Though lesser issues have caused tragedies, and even wars, in the past. And things like land being held for many decades in the family or losing the "family farm" can get one's blood up and make for irrational, even self-defeating behavior, to happen. I recall the suicide epidemic in the midwest during all the farm foreclosures. Or terrorist groups like "The Order" etc forming out of them.

[wr250]

but hey , look at the bright side. when its all over and done with , maybe senate majority leader harry reid will just buy the land up and subdivide it at a tidy profit for himself. its not like he hasnt done that before .

[Zoo]

Why do they not just arrest him? Call him a domestic terrorist pick him and his family up put them in jail and throw away the key? Interesting fact the United States owns 86% plus of the land in Nevada why?

I was wrong thats what you get from watching the MSM, it is 84.5% owned by the Government!!1
http://robbishop.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fed_land_per_state.jpg

[albrecht]

I was wrong thats what you get from watching the MSM, it is 84.5% owned by the Government!!1
http://robbishop.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fed_land_per_state.jpg

Seems very legit considering Art.1, Sec.8, Cl.17 of the Constitution. Yeah, right.
"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--"

Funny it seems A LOT larger than the "ten Miles square" as stipulated in the Constitution and I don't see any reasons like tortoises or solar farms or cattle grazing mentioned as the legitimate use for Federally owned property either.

[Yorkshire pud]

I was wrong thats what you get from watching the MSM, it is 84.5% owned by the Government!!1
http://robbishop.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fed_land_per_state.jpg

How could you get it so wrong? You've let yourself down, you've let us down, you've let the cows down, the desert down.

[Zoo]

Well on this forum if your not perfect people will do their best to let you know. So I thought I would take care of it myself!!1

[RealCool Daddio]

What's not to get?

Occupy Wallstreet, you are a dangerous enemy of the state.

[attachimg=1]

Occupy Ranchland, you are a patriot.

[attachimg=2]

[b_dubb]

RCD ... it seems like the people in the first photo want peace.  And the guy in the second photo is looking for an excuse to shoot some people. 

[Yorkshire pud]

RCD ... it seems like the people in the first photo want peace.  And the guy in the second photo is looking for an excuse to shoot some people.

Heyyyll yeah...and anyone stands in his way is a goddam commie. Even those who aren't.

[RealCool Daddio]

RCD ... it seems like the people in the first photo want peace.  And the guy in the second photo is looking for an excuse to shoot some people.

At first glance, that would seem to be the case.  But to the trained eye of a true American (a Fox News anchor, a Tea party member, a Paper Boy, for example), the truth is quickly ascertained.  The people in the first picture are godless, lazy moochers who want to destroy America and everything it stands for.  The person in the second picture is a patriotic, god fearing moocher who wants to destroy the American government and everything it stands for.

[FightTheFuture]

Looks like the those crazy, gun totin`, Jesus lovin`, redneck militia and ranchers....won.



Good stuff!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

[Yorkshire pud]

Looks like the those crazy, gun totin`, Jesus lovin`, redneck militia and ranchers....won.



Good stuff!!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

Yep...freeloading is the way to go. All you need is gather up a mob call it 'freedom' and you're good to go.. Let's hope though they're there when the G20 protesters turn up at a city near you...

[FightTheFuture]

What's not to get?

Occupy Wallstreet, you are a dangerous enemy of the state.

[attachimg=1]

Not really, just a rag-tag bunch of ignorant, violent, malcontents.

Oh, and they stunk to high heaven!

Check it out, check it outters:

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=33490

[Yorkshire pud]

Not really, just a rag-tag bunch of ignorant, violent, malcontents.

Oh, and they stunk to high heaven!

You couldn't tell from the video you posted, but the dogs sure looked mean, so maybe you're right. And the desert sun is no place to start smelling.


But even so F t F; They're all Gods children, show your Christian credentials and take them in, have them bathe in your bathroom, feed them, clothe them...go on, do what Jesus would have done... Quite a dilemma isn't it?

[Foodlion]

Yep...freeloading is the way to go. All you need is gather up a mob call it 'freedom' and you're good to go.. Let's hope though they're there when the G20 protesters turn up at a city near you...

If they were freeloaders they would be sitting on the couch watching the Maury Povich show and wouldn't even know this event occurred.

That is the modern definition of a freeloader