Will there be blood?

[SciFiAuthor]

In addition to SWAT teams, we have the addition of thousands of federal crimes in recent years.  The idiots in Congress pass laws that make violation of administrative rules criminal, so that now, most people are guilty of committing some kind of federal crime - many don't know the rule exists.

The rise of federal criminal statutes has been over the last 50-years.  For instance, when JFK was assassinated (wounded, kidnapped, whatever) there was no federal murder statute, so the only crime Oswald could have been indicted for was the Texas murder statute.

As for whether Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, or liberals are to blame - they all are. Arguing about progressives vs. neo-cons is absurd and non-productive.  We have an elite class of corporatists/bureaucrats  in the US (and other places in the world) - call it the 1% or the .01% - that look out for each other and distract the rest of us into petty bickering.

And of course they wrote a Federal murder statute as though Texas law wasn't perfectly sufficient to prosecute the crime.

[SciFiAuthor]

you forgot the NOAA
its my understanding that the feds took the land from the county in 1993, then tried to force ranchers into grazing agreements. most simply gave up and moved on to other pursuits. bundy refused to sign the grazing agreement then with the blm citing "prior use" (back to the 1880's), and has offered to pay clark county nevada for grazing rights. apparently the federal courts sided with the BLM against bundy (no surprise there) and told him to pay up, to which he flipped them off i guess.
now at this time, a powerful (read makes alot of high dollar campaign contributions to congress critters campaigns) environmental group filed suit to remove the cattle (but not the some 1700 wild horses occupying the same land) citing damage to the environment causing a decline  in desert tortoise populations. 
the BLM claims they do not have the money to remove the horses, but apparently they came come up with the scratch to round up cattle, assign a large number of armed officers(?), k-9 units, helicopters, and apparently a APC (armored personnel carrier) .

note that bundy has quite a large acreage that developers have been drooling over (read build homes that sell for millions) for at least a decade. he has turned down all offers, preferring to keep the familial land. as for harry reid and the chinese angle, i dont put much past reid in this regard (he has done this before) but i think reid has no interest in this, and the chinese/oil/mineral lease thing is non existent.

i live not to far from there, and the turtle thing is a sore spot here as well, esp when the feds eminent domained quite alot of high dollar property for the turtle reserve.

Thanks for the run down. I'm surprised that they didn't eminent domain his property. That's what city and county councils usually do; they declare it blighted, set up a TIFF or similar district, give the owner "fair market value that we determine", and justify the whole thing with increased property tax revenues from a subdivision development. The SCOTUS, through the liberal wing, actually upheld that practice in Kelo vs. City of New London. The staunch conservatives on the court wrote the dissenting opinions. It was probably the most crooked SCOTUS court case in US history.

A quick look into the turtle thing revealed this article:


http://rt.com/usa/desert-tortoises-euthanize-nevada-024/


I haven't fact checked it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Yorkshire pud]

A quick look into the turtle thing revealed this article:


http://rt.com/usa/desert-tortoises-euthanize-nevada-024/


I haven't fact checked it, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I did wonder how a tortoise turned into a turtle. One is sea living, the other one flies. Everyone knows that.

[albrecht]

I did wonder how a tortoise turned into a turtle. One is sea living, the other one flies. Everyone knows that.

and what the heck is a terrapin!? Aside from the UofMD mascot and a Grateful Dead album!? I say it is all a conspiracy by the ancient reptilian chelonians who, maybe using advice from their inner-earth reptilians, change our words to confuse us humans.
BTW: you aren't correct in usage if you look at a dictionary. There is, like many other terms, a discrepancy between American English and English with regard to the normal use of the term "turtle" and "tortoise" (not to mention terrapin!) [American, like Spanish etc, uses "turtle" (tortuga) for all chelonia species regardless of living area and is perfectly correct usage. Though tortoise is used in the USA for some, particularly desert dwelling turtles, also but the whole taxonomy is called "turtle" informally and correctly.]

[Yorkshire pud]

and what the heck is a terrapin!? Aside from the UofMD mascot and a Grateful Dead album!? I say it is all a conspiracy by the ancient reptilian chelonians who, maybe using advice from their inner-earth reptilians, change our words to confuse us humans.
BTW: you aren't correct in usage if you look at a dictionary. There is, like many other terms, a discrepancy between American English and English with regard to the normal use of the term "turtle" and "tortoise" (not to mention terrapin!) [American, like Spanish etc, uses "turtle" (tortuga) for all chelonia species regardless of living area and is perfectly correct usage. Though tortoise is used in the USA for some, particularly desert dwelling turtles, also but the whole taxonomy is called "turtle" informally and correctly.]

Small steps: I'm still working on getting aluminium and route correctly pronounced, reptiles will have to wait.

[Juan]

Remove the extra "i" and you'll be on the way to solving aluminum.  I would imagine you pronounce route correctly and most Americans do not. It's the same as Sam Houston not knowing how to pronounce his own name, and leading most Americans to mispronounce all Houstons except the one in Texas.

[NowhereInTime]

This better not raise the price of Beef!

First it was our Tobacco, then our Gas and Milk, now this!

Yes, keep giving the rich tax breaks and see how else they'll use their idle cash to screw you.
"What's that?  A coco shortage? 4th  year in a row? Gosh, watch out for those coco prices..."

[wr250]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) says the standoff between a Nevada rancher and the federal government is "not over," despite ranch protesters claiming victory.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/harry-reid-nevada-ranch_n_5153758.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

so senator reid (D-NV) , instead of standing up for your constituents, or at least offering to mediate between the two, you pour some fuel on the fire. nice going. your name should be biden.

[VtaGeezer]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

[West of the Rockies]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

Ah, brave, intrepid souls those fellows....

[WhiteCrow]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

Human shields....yeah I heard that too, what a dope.

[b_dubb]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

That's classy. If there's anything that Muricans can get behind it's putting women in danger because you're too chicken shit to get shot yourself.

What a bunch of clowns.

[albrecht]

That's classy. If there's anything that Muricans can get behind it's putting women in danger because you're too chicken shit to get shot yourself.

What a bunch of clowns.

Im not for equal rights in the military but having said that it is a dumb move. As proven in countless wars women n children are easy to kill and good targets (no more generations of fighters if one does job good enough and good terror tactic to stop fighting n resistance.) Only simpled minded cowboys n farmers could think "women n children" would stop governments! Even domestically. Dont they remember bombing Tulsa? Or MOVE? Or at least Waco? Or Nam? Or anywhere? Or Serbia? Algeria?  These days it is even more palitable for the non insane, who might hesitate, because they could just drone them. Its just a GTA game after all....

[VtaGeezer]

That's classy. If there's anything that Muricans can get behind it's putting women in danger because you're too chicken shit to get shot yourself.

What a bunch of clowns.

Not clowns; John B Wells callers.  Many had come from long distances (I read a quote from a Missouri "militia" jerk) carrying weapons in hope of the sh*t hitting the fan.

[b_dubb]

Not clowns; John B Wells callers.  Many had come from long distances (I read a quote from a Missouri "militia" jerk) carrying weapons in hope of the sh*t hitting the fan.

That's the thing.  Those guys aren't Patriots.  They're homicidal maniacs looking for an opportunity to kill someone and possibly have a legal defense to keep their ass  off death row.  Pretty unlikely when you're targets are law enforcement officers.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

Could be a plant.
One of the main propaganda techniques of the US is to show women being mistreated in the place we plan to go to war or are contemplating military action against. Women mistreated in Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan.  I actually thought we would have military action in Syria.

And after we occupy, we get the pictures of the new freedoms of women. Women with purple thumbs, entering American Idol contests, and going to skateboarding school.

I just read this and I have noticed when they want to portray a country favorably they fill up the screen with clips of women. Women shopping, working, reading a book, commenting on the current political situation.  And children of course.

[VtaGeezer]

Could be a plant.
One of the main propaganda techniques of the US is to show women being mistreated in the place we plan to go to war or are contemplating military action against. Women mistreated in Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan.  I actually thought we would have military action in Syria.

And after we occupy, we get the pictures of the new freedoms of women. Women with purple thumbs, entering American Idol contests, and going to skateboarding school.

A plant??? Ha!  Do you hear yourself?  Put down the Kool-Aid.  He's a well known far right activist and ex-sheriff from here in AZ.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/richard-mack/

[Yorkshire pud]

Ah, brave, intrepid souls those fellows....

Aren't they just? It makes it laughable these same chicken shit 'true Americans' have websites and weekends telling each other how they'll defend the constitution and other true Americans. How can they be treated with anything but contempt?

[West of the Rockies]

Oh, I am sure Sean Hannity is calling them "real Americans" and "true patriots"....

[PB the Deplorable]

Now you know what the rest of us think about the 'demonstrators' who have been coming our downtowns - to tear them up, burn our flag, loot the stores, tie up traffic, pump out a bunch of propaganda, and attack the police all these years.

The Occupy pukes are only the most recent.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

A plant??? Ha!  Do you hear yourself?  Put down the Kool-Aid.  He's a well known far right activist and ex-sheriff from here in AZ.

If you read your posts Vta, you make it sound like John B. Wells callers made this statement.

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

What a bunch of clowns.

Not clowns; John B Wells callers.  Many had come from long distances (I read a quote from a Missouri "militia" jerk) carrying weapons in hope of the sh*t hitting the fan.

[VtaGeezer]

If you read your posts Vta, you make it sound like John B. Wells callers made this statement.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if Mack was a big Wells fan. He fits the profile. He could have been a Wells guest.

[MV/Liberace!]

I just heard one of the patriots who stood with Bundy explain how they planned to put put the women in the front line if there was a shoot-out so the feds would be filmed shooting them first.  Oh well, the best laid plans...etc.

wow.  they must have been studying the tactics of the palestinians.

[Yorkshire pud]

wow.  they must have been studying the tactics of the palestinians.

Sex equality.. "Yo Bitch, get over here and take the round..man up dya hear?"

[Foodlion]

Some words from a wise man.

http://youtu.be/EePMgyGK83w

Just have to put in a word since this Bundy Ranch event is probably far from over.
To reiterate what I said when this thing first launched off. Keep your phones handy.
Also Don't let the Feds stereotype the protestors as gun toting teapartiers by putting on a show for them or the lame media covering it. 
I don't think anyone from Bellgab is part of the crowed there, but I'm just voicing my opinion on the whole thing once again.

Edit: On second thought, ditch the phone and just take a camera. They're probably setting up the Stingray system there. Don't want those idiots getting into your personal business. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Doesn't seem that fucking wise to me: Driving while speaking into a camera would get him pulled over for driving without due care and attention. "oops sorry Madam, I wasn't watching when I ran over your children"

The other blatantly obvious thing is the 2nd amendment stuff; The reason the police turned up armed was because they knew the ranchers would be armed. We had an episode of the bailiffs evicting travelers in Essex two years or so ago..The police were there to keep an eye on things and it dragged on for weeks. The police didn't go in with firearms, although the travelers were lining up propane gas bottles and threatening to make a bonfire around them. But it's difficult to match exploding gas bottles unless you go full on HE.

Bundy was visited with armed police because surprise surprise they had every chance of being shot. The guy in the vid is right in one respect, no, they didn't want to be shot. No-one in their right mind does. But if one had been, I dread to think what the outcome would be.

[wr250]

Doesn't seem that fucking wise to me: Driving while speaking into a camera would get him pulled over for driving without due care and attention. "oops sorry Madam, I wasn't watching when I ran over your children"

The other blatantly obvious thing is the 2nd amendment stuff; The reason the police turned up armed was because they knew the ranchers would be armed. We had an episode of the bailiffs evicting travelers in Essex two years or so ago..The police were there to keep an eye on things and it dragged on for weeks. The police didn't go in with firearms, although the travelers were lining up propane gas bottles and threatening to make a bonfire around them. But it's difficult to match exploding gas bottles unless you go full on HE.

Bundy was visited with armed police because surprise surprise they had every chance of being shot. The guy in the vid is right in one respect, no, they didn't want to be shot. No-one in their right mind does. But if one had been, I dread to think what the outcome would be.

all cops are armed while on duty in the US. yes with a real gun,and not just a taser and a can o pepper spray.

[Yorkshire pud]

all cops are armed while on duty in the US. yes with a real gun,and not just a taser and a can o pepper spray.

I'm aware of that; So what's the big deal? If they're expected to be armed (Police), why is there this gasp of astonishment that they might bring bigger clubs that go bang than usual? Oh, and dogs.

I'm genuinely puzzled at the surprise by some at the preemptive response.

[onan]

Right wing disinformation: Bundy’s Land Is NOT Solar Farm for Harry Reid


http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014/04/13/right-wing-disinformation-bundys-land-is-not-solar-farm-for-harry-reid/

[Foodlion]

Doesn't seem that fucking wise to me: Driving while speaking into a camera would get him pulled over for driving without due care and attention. "oops sorry Madam, I wasn't watching when I ran over your children"

Fair enough. I also hope parents instill enough common sense into their kids not to be running out in the road.

The other blatantly obvious thing is the 2nd amendment stuff; The reason the police turned up armed was because they knew the ranchers would be armed. We had an episode of the bailiffs evicting travelers in Essex two years or so ago..The police were there to keep an eye on things and it dragged on for weeks. The police didn't go in with firearms, although the travelers were lining up propane gas bottles and threatening to make a bonfire around them. But it's difficult to match exploding gas bottles unless you go full on HE.

Bundy was visited with armed police because surprise surprise they had every chance of being shot. The guy in the vid is right in one respect, no, they didn't want to be shot. No-one in their right mind does. But if one had been, I dread to think what the outcome would be.

The protests are what kept this from becoming a tragedy. How many instances of the past were law enforcement officers allowed to get off the hook for murder because of their word against civilians.

Just remember that in Waco the feds forced the protestors and media out of the area when they preformed their deadly raid. Rare footage was leaked to expose the false statements made by the feds. Yet there wasn't enough to bring justice the corrupt whole operation. These protestors are doing a dang good job to insure that history doesn't repeat itself.