ObamaCare - Real Life Answers from Doctors

[Ruteger]

Have you visited your dentist or other doctor lately? Have you asked them about ObamaCare, and what they think about it? And how it will affect them? My job requires me to move around, and I can tell you that of the last 4 doctors I have seen over 3 different states, they are 100% in agreement this will destroy the best healthcare system in the world. Some have even stated they would rather retire early than to submit to ObamaCare.

Liberal filth - the next time you visit your doctor, ask them what they think of ObamaCare and report back.

[NowhereInTime]

Have you visited your dentist or other doctor lately? Have you asked them about ObamaCare, and what they think about it? And how it will affect them? My job requires me to move around, and I can tell you that of the last 4 doctors I have seen over 3 different states, they are 100% in agreement this will destroy the best healthcare system in the world. Some have even stated they would rather retire early than to submit to ObamaCare.

Liberal filth - the next time you visit your doctor, ask them what they think of ObamaCare and report back.

Since when is "fugitive" a job? Conservative filth.

[onan]

He isn't conservative. He is blinded by his irrational hatred for anything beyond his understanding. I think he hates shoes that need to be tied.

[Yorkshire pud]

Have you visited your dentist or other doctor lately? Have you asked them about ObamaCare, and what they think about it? And how it will affect them? My job requires me to move around, and I can tell you that of the last 4 doctors I have seen over 3 different states, they are 100% in agreement this will destroy the best healthcare system in the world. Some have even stated they would rather retire early than to submit to ObamaCare.

Liberal filth - the next time you visit your doctor, ask them what they think of ObamaCare and report back.

It isn't the best health care system in the world; How can it be? You've been allowed out of the fucking secure unit, and into THREE states? Jeeeze, someones head will roll for that.

Conservative filth.

[Birdie]

It s hard to take any of your criticism of Obamacare seriously when your avatar is an anti Obama slogan. And if you think the US has the best healthcare system in the world, you are either delusional or highly uninformed.
http://www.americashealthrankings.org/Rankings/InternationalComparisons

Of course many doctors will prefer the old health care system- it allowed them to do as many unnecessary tests as they felt like in order to run up their insurance claims. No one was checking up on them and their creative billing practices.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/obamacare-enforcement-helps-set-4-2b-record-medicare-fraud-recovery-article-1.1286388

Funny, you don't ever hear the right talking about these aspects of the ACA. Too busy hating  everything associated with Obama, I guess.

[Yorkshire pud]

Funny, you don't ever hear the right talking about these aspects of the ACA. Too busy hating  everything associated with Obama, I guess.

Stop bringing facts up against Rutger's swivel eyed uninformed rantings; He can't cope with it, and his programming will crash.

[PB the Deplorable]

... if you think the US has the best healthcare system in the world, you are either delusional or highly uninformed...

A third option is delusional AND uninformed.

But there must be some reason people come from all over the world to have medical procedures done here (famously including a Canadian Prime Minister).  Nearly all new medical equipment and pharmaceuticals are invented here, and new procedures developed here.  Most of the medical research done worldwide is done here.  The best doctors and the best hospitals in the world are located here.

We don't have rationing, people aren't dying while waiting months on end for procedures, and the newest and most costly pharmaceuticals are available.  People aren't denied certain procedures if they are over a certain age.  Our hospitals are clean and sanitary - ever been to one in Europe?


All that is better then these socialist 'free' healthcare programs in places like Canada and western Europe. 


Health *insurance* needed to be reformed in the US - no doubt about it.  Reform should have focused on the 15% who didn't have it, not this vast failed monstrosity called ObamaCare.  Because of ObamaCare, there are less people insured now than there were before.  And insurance costs most people considerably more due to the ObamaCare rules, and if it doesn't yet, it will.

This was about power, appealing to illegal-immigrant future voters, and income redistribution.  They locked the Republicans out of the room (literally) when they were creating it, and at the same time attacked them for not working with them.  They had little input from anyone other than their insurance company cronies (talk about fascism).

Why didn't they just focus on the actual problems - the uninsured, portability, people with pre-conditions, fraud, denial of coverage to people with policies?  Predictably, none of that is fixed under ObamaCare.  One could argue it's worse. 

This was all meant to fail, and for the country to then demand nationalized health care.  The problem for the D's is that it failed too fast.


And we haven't even gotten to the job destruction, the uncertainty in the economy, or the creation of an environment that now allows the President to simply bypass Congress and decree new law - that was not a precedent we wanted to establish in our little republic, yet there it is.

... Of course many doctors will prefer the old health care system- it allowed them to do as many unnecessary tests as they felt like in order to run up their insurance claims.

Trial lawyers.  You've heard of them?  Huge huge contributors to Democrats.  Their main political agenda being to prevent reform of Tort Law.  Pointless lawsuits that bring in truckloads of cash.

A bunch of high stakes grifters, really.  John Edwards was one of them.

That's why doctors prescribe unnecessary tests.  So they don't get sued when people die or stay sick - which, believe it or not, happens all the time regardless of what a doctor is able to do for them.

[Yorkshire pud]

A third option is delusional AND uninformed.

But there must be some reason people come from all over the world to have medical procedures done here (famously including a Canadian Prime Minister).

People also go to Switzerland, Poland, Russia, Britain, France, India, Australia from all over the world..Your point being?

Nearly all new medical equipment and pharmaceuticals are invented here, and new procedures developed here.  Most of the medical research done worldwide is done here.  The best doctors and the best hospitals in the world are located here.

We don't have rationing, people aren't dying while waiting months on end for procedures, and the newest and most costly pharmaceuticals are available.  People aren't denied certain procedures if they are over a certain age.  Our hospitals are clean and sanitary - ever been to one in Europe?

Oh you're funny. Which procedures are denied to people over a certain age elsewhere based on anything other than medical reasons? As I've said often enough, both my parents have had major operations and ongoing procedures (Both in their 70's) including triple by-pass, treatment for angina, cataracts, pancreatitis, duodenal ulcer...As for me, bilateral hernia, arthroscopy for a detached cartilage in my knee, A&E admissions over the years. None of that is rationed.. All the above includes any physio, theatre time, drugs, X rays etc...

Tell me, how much of the above can an American access if they don't have huge cover in health insurance? And how much would be not covered if it's ongoing?

All that is better then these socialist 'free' healthcare programs in places like Canada and western Europe. 

See above.

Health *insurance* needed to be reformed in the US - no doubt about it.  Reform should have focused on the 15% who didn't have it, not this vast failed monstrosity called ObamaCare.  Because of ObamaCare, there are less people insured now than there were before.  And insurance costs most people considerably more due to the ObamaCare rules, and if it doesn't yet, it will.

'Insurance' as you advocate won't be given to the 15% who don't have it, nor the rest who are inadequatly covered, you know it, and neither would you want it because it means YOUR premium will go up to cover what they can't afford. And/or the insurance companies will cut back on what they will cover and to what extent. Then YOU will really complain!!

[onan]

A third option is delusional AND uninformed.

But there must be some reason people come from all over the world to have medical procedures done here (famously including a Canadian Prime Minister).  Nearly all new medical equipment and pharmaceuticals are invented here, and new procedures developed here.  Most of the medical research done worldwide is done here.  The best doctors and the best hospitals in the world are located here.

We don't have rationing, people aren't dying while waiting months on end for procedures, and the newest and most costly pharmaceuticals are available.  People aren't denied certain procedures if they are over a certain age.  Our hospitals are clean and sanitary - ever been to one in Europe?


All that is better then these socialist 'free' healthcare programs in places like Canada and western Europe. 


Health *insurance* needed to be reformed in the US - no doubt about it.  Reform should have focused on the 15% who didn't have it, not this vast failed monstrosity called ObamaCare.  Because of ObamaCare, there are less people insured now than there were before.  And insurance costs most people considerably more due to the ObamaCare rules, and if it doesn't yet, it will.

This was about power, appealing to illegal-immigrant future voters, and income redistribution.  They locked the Republicans out of the room (literally) when they were creating it, and at the same time attacked them for not working with them.  They had little input from anyone other than their insurance company cronies (talk about fascism).

Why didn't they just focus on the actual problems - the uninsured, portability, people with pre-conditions, fraud, denial of coverage to people with policies?  Predictably, none of that is fixed under ObamaCare.  One could argue it's worse. 

This was all meant to fail, and for the country to then demand nationalized health care.  The problem for the D's is that it failed too fast.


And we haven't even gotten to the job destruction, the uncertainty in the economy, or the creation of an environment that now allows the President to simply bypass Congress and decree new law - that was not a precedent we wanted to establish in our little republic, yet there it is.




Trial lawyers.  You've heard of them?  Huge huge contributors to Democrats.  Their main political agenda being to prevent reform of Tort Law.  Pointless lawsuits that bring in truckloads of cash.

A bunch of high stakes grifters, really.  John Edwards was one of them.

That's why doctors prescribe unnecessary tests.  So they don't get sued when people die or stay sick - which, believe it or not, happens all the time regardless of what a doctor is able to do for them.

I pointed this out to you before, 45,000 a year die, due to no insurance.

Too many tests are done for just as many reasons. Sometimes it is a scam, sometimes it is to CYA, sometimes it is turning over every stone, sometimes it is a new doc that isn't sure whether it's a horse or a zebra. But malpractice suits are down over the last decade. Due to tort reform, better practice in medical facilities, and better outcomes.

I think the ACA is going to turn out to be a success, and for some that is just plain unthinkable.

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

I pointed this out to you before, 45,000 a year die, due to no insurance.

Too many tests are done for just as many reasons. Sometimes it is a scam, sometimes it is to CYA, sometimes it is turning over every stone, sometimes it is a new doc that isn't sure whether it's a horse or a zebra. But malpractice suits are down over the last decade. Due to tort reform, better practice in medical facilities, and better outcomes.

I think the ACA is going to turn out to be a success, and for some that is just plain unthinkable.

why do you bother onan? I read the post you are responding to and it is pure rubbish. So why do you respond to this nonsense? You seem like a reasonable and likeable man... I am shocked at what I read in this forum. They are so ignorant about the world they live in that I question their income level and education. Seriously I think these people are intellectually disturbed and should be on medication.

Really, they are scary.

[WhiteCrow]

why do you bother onan? I read the post you are responding to and it is pure rubbish. So why do you respond to this nonsense? You seem like a reasonable and likeable man... I am shocked at what I read in this forum. They are so ignorant about the world they live in that I question their income level and education. Seriously I think these people are intellectually disturbed and should be on medication.

Really, they are scary.

why do you bother PaperBoy? I read the post you are responding to and it is pure rubbish. So why do you respond to this nonsense? You seem like a reasonable and likeable man... I am shocked at what I read in this forum. They are so ignorant about the world they live in that I question their income level and education. Seriously I think these people are intellectually disturbed and should be on medication.

Really, they are scary.




Oh btw.. I'm in favor of ACA ... The elite Doctors are reacting to ACA by setting up a lot more boutique health care facilities for the wealth.  Free enterprise at work.

[PB the Deplorable]

why do you bother onan? I read the post you are responding to and it is pure rubbish. So why do you respond to this nonsense? You seem like a reasonable and likeable man... I am shocked at what I read in this forum. They are so ignorant about the world they live in that I question their income level and education. Seriously I think these people are intellectually disturbed and should be on medication.

Really, they are scary.

Actually, it's about 99% true, with about 1% opinion mixed in. 
   

The mis-educated and scary people are the ones that think we can somehow borrow trillions of dollars and print trillions more - more than doubling both the money supply and the National Debt during Obama's 5 short years - without serious consequences, potentially including runaway inflation, default, and collapse.

What, they didn't teach you a dang thing about economics where you went to school?

[PB the Deplorable]

I pointed this out to you before, 45,000 a year die, due to no insurance...

I am quite familiar with how statistics are gathered and used - and that they can be made to come up with any desired conclusion.  I'd really have to see the study and probably the raw statistics.  Lot's of people die every year, insured and uninsured. 

But none of that addresses the main point:  why didn't Obama, Pelosi, and the rest of the D's focus on the issues that were the problem instead of targeting as much of the rest of the system as they could?

... Too many tests are done for just as many reasons. Sometimes it is a scam, sometimes it is to CYA, sometimes it is turning over every stone, sometimes it is a new doc that isn't sure whether it's a horse or a zebra. But malpractice suits are down over the last decade. Due to tort reform, better practice in medical facilities, and better outcomes...

It' one thing to say too many test are done for a variety of reasons.  It's something else to say a CYA for malpractice lawsuits is not the major reason.

[onan]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917

[maureen]

bloody money-changers in the temple!!!!

[b_dubb]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917

But onan don't you know that Reuters news service is part of the Evil Left Wing Cabal that wants to destroy 'Murica?

[PB the Deplorable]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917

I'm sure people die from not having health care insurance.  People die from having lousy doctors too.  Maybe lots of them.  Sometimes people just die from being sick or badly injured.

I question the 45,000 figure.  Seems like a lot.  Especially given that all 50 states have Medicaid and other healthcare programs for those that need them, and many doctors and hospitals do pro bono work on top of that.  First of all, why don't these people have jobs that offer health insurance?  Is it really society's fault a certain number of people refuse a free education, then refuse to develop job skills useful enough to obtain a good job with good benefits?  I'm personally tired of enabling more of this by supporting it with tax dollars.  We've tried it for 40 something years now, it hasn't worked - just the opposite, let's try something different.

But aside from that - according to the article itself, this study was funded by the Federal government (which is currently overseen by Barrack Obama), conducted by Harvard (one of our very Liberal Ivy League universities), and was released by a group that favors ''government backed single payer health insurance". 

Let's note that when private industry funds a study that is conducted and released by sympathetic groups, it is immediately denounced as biased, and deemed not useful.  Yet when government does the same, it is taken as gospel and not even questioned. 

So consider me cynical.  Especially given the timing of the study.

[onan]

Especially given the timing of the study.

So you missed the part from the "93 study?

I give up.

[PB the Deplorable]

So you missed the part from the "93 study?

I give up.

I did notice that.  I certainly did.

That was the very year Hillary took it upon herself as First Lady to try to cram single payer down our throats.  1993. 

Again, interesting timing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

[gbneely]

I'm sure people die from not having health care insurance.  People die from having lousy doctors too.  Maybe lots of them.  Sometimes people just die from being sick or badly injured.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/09/20/224507654/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-u-s-hospitals

Yes, it seems they do.

[FightTheFuture]

ACA doesn't have a chance. The worst of it has yet to come, thanks to our lawless commander- in- chief, who, for sheer political expediency,  has amended the law 28 times and counting.

[NowhereInTime]

why do you bother PaperBoy? I read the post you are responding to and it is pure rubbish. So why do you respond to this nonsense? You seem like a reasonable and likeable man... I am shocked at what I read in this forum. They are so ignorant about the world they live in that I question their income level and education. Seriously I think these people are intellectually disturbed and should be on medication.

Really, they are scary.




Oh btw.. I'm in favor of ACA ... The elite Doctors are reacting to ACA by setting up a lot more boutique health care facilities for the wealth.  Free enterprise at work.

Well, megadittoes. Thank God that the wealthy aren't being left behind!

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm sure people die from not having health care insurance.  People die from having lousy doctors too.  Maybe lots of them.  Sometimes people just die from being sick or badly injured.

I question the 45,000 figure.  Seems like a lot. 

Of course you question it; so what is the real figure? You still haven't addressed your earlier corrected diatribe regarding all those pesky 'socialist' countries such as Canada and the UK.. I guess I was making it all up though.. Oh I forgot to mention GP services and walk in health centres. Free at the point of need.

[Yorkshire pud]

I did notice that.  I certainly did.

...pants on fire...You didn't otherwise you wouln't have said this...

So consider me cynical.  Especially given the timing of the study.

You initially believed it was recent, as in the last six months. You think everyone is as daft as you.

[area51drone]

I think we should go back to the Little House days.  Doctors get paid in apples, help repairing their house, etc.  Patients get treated.  Problem solved.

[onan]

60% of medical malpractice comes from 6% of doctors.

The medical profession is far from perfect. But the numbers you hold up as you hold your noses doesn't begin to tell the actual story. Yes we have all heard the horrible stories of surgeries where the wrong leg was amputated or the patient that got the wrong medicines. those are horrible and tragic stories. But by the sound of some of you, malpractice would cost you too much personally, so trash the whole system.

It is free market capitalism that is killing the medical system. It is that simple. Some here, protest the corruption of the pharmaceutical companies; while at the same time practically orgasming at the concept of investors and board member just getting their fair share.

[PB the Deplorable]

...pants on fire...You didn't otherwise you wouln't have said this...

And yet I didn't even have to think about it when Onan asked.  Go figure.

I try to keep posts concise and easy to read.  I didn't include the part about it being based on the 1993 study in order to not add clutter and detract from my point (that it came from sources who have a philosophical and political interest in downplaying the damage ObamaCare is doing).  Most people don't even remember Hill's sordid little episode - it got buried by the Media so quickly, never to be mentioned again.

The thing I recall the clearest from that was when Hillary was out drumming up support for her sordid little project, someone pointed out that most Americans work for small businesses and that her plan would bankrupt many small businesses.  Her response was something along the lines of ''I can't be responsible for every under-capitalized small business in America".  She may as well have added "let them eat cake".

'We can't be responsible...', how familiar does that sound to what's going on currently?  It's something that sounds like it could have been spoken by Nancy Pelosi or Kathleen Supercilious or even Barry as recently as today.   There's your compassionate Lib.  How really very typical.  How 'Progressive'.  'We've eliminated your job but ended job-lock...'.


The actions that gave the House to Newt Gingrich and the R's in 1994 - the first Republican control of the House in 40 years - was the reaction of the voters to a) Hillary's Plan for Socialized Medical Care, and b) the 2 gun grabbing bills they passed (the Brady Bill and the so-called Assault Weapons Ban portion of the Crime Bill).  A LOT of Democrat House and Senate members lost their seats.  Which is why the gun grabbers are still laying low to this very day.

By the way, that was a real turning point, not just in the House after all those years, but in the Democrat Party.  The members that lost seats were mostly Moderate D's.  The Libs and Leftists kept their mostly 'safe seats', while nearly every competitive seat went to Gingrich and his followers.  Without those Moderates, the D's have been sliding further and further to the Left ever since.


Getting back to the timing of both of these medical insurance reports regarding death comparisons - what are the chances 1993 and 2009 would be the 2 years those studies would be done?  Hello?

... You initially believed it was recent, as in the last six months. You think everyone is as daft as you.

Since it was mentioned and posted today, yes, I thought it was recent.  Until I read it. 

So what?

[PB the Deplorable]

... It is free market capitalism that is killing the medical system. It is that simple...

The more the government has gotten involved in our medical system over the years, the more bureaucratic it's gotten, the less competition there's been, and the faster prices have increased.  Just what would be predicted for any industry to be slowly nationalized.

It seems bassackwards to say it's still fucked up and it's because it hasn't been completely nationalized yet.  Where is the proof of that?

What is going to happen unless this is reversed is more rationing, worse service, and higher costs.  And we will no longer be inventing medical equipment, pharmaceutical products, or medical procedures the way we do today - the golden goose will have been killed.  The Leftists have no idea how to create a damn thing, all they know is to seize and redistribute what others create.  The problem is that kills incentive to produce more.

To suggest otherwise is a complete misunderstanding of how an economy works and a complete misreading of history. 


For something this important - and what is more important than our health? - perhaps the people in favor of this could point out the list of goods and services the government provides better and more efficiently than the private sector does.  After all, the burden of proof should be on them (beyond the few things only government can provide, and was originally set up to do, like public safety, the court system, infrastructure, diplomacy, issuing currency, ect).  Which agencies are just so efficient and streamlined that they can do better than existing businesses?   

Obama and the Dem's have handed part of the job to the IRS, and the rest to the gang that spent nearly a billion dollars and still couldn't put together a secure workable website.  Is this who everyone wants to have overseeing our medical system and making decisions that affect our healthcare?  Is that what we can expect more of after taking the free market out of it?

[FightTheFuture]

The more the government has gotten involved in our medical system over the years, the more bureaucratic it's gotten, the less competition there's been, and the faster prices have increased. Just what would

Exactly. The government controls a huge swath of our health care, which has benefited insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and other big conglomerate healthcare entities. The ironic thing is that the bureaucratic noise on the Left keeps insisting that it is free enterprise that is forcing prices up, but nothing could be further from the truth. The more entangled government becomes in our healthcare system, the worse everything gets. There are some common sense Solutions, but more government control is definitely not it


Guess where else we see this dynamic playing out? You guessed it; college tuitions.  Uncle Sugar has made money so easily accessible by any body, that colleges and universities, like healthcare entities, have caught on. They know they can get whatever tuition they want, because people will just borrow it from the government.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

Real Life Answers from Doctors: This thread is going to give you ulcers.