For U.S. repubs>> Who is the leader of the party right now?

[FightTheFuture]

If Hillary Clinton eventually finds herself to be the Democrat  nominee, she can expect a vigorous retrospective vetting of her sexual predator husband. Are the American people prepared to put that sleaze bag back in the White House? That won't be the issue,  it will, however, be an issue.

I think we are currently seeing Rand Paul softening up the beach for the inevitable invasion of intense scrutiny from the right, or as Hillz might refer to it: vast right wing conspiracy

[SciFiAuthor]

Medi-care reform is not the fiasco, the roll out and planning of it was and still is the fiasco. Obamma mamma hast lost the PR war. He has very little political capital left if any. Fortunately the republicans are too divided to do anything about it.

I am not an Obamma fan. I think he let personal emotions sway him from taking advantage of the opportune moment for banking reform. Instead he let and continues to let the fraudulent bankers and corporate fascists steal America's future by eliminating the middle class.

He has been the biggest political disappointment in my lifetime. I really believe Romney was the better choice but the baggage he came with (mainly the koch brothers) and the fact that he just didn't come across as an average and likeable guy in the media killed his chances. Especially when he failed to win the second debate. He needed a knock out and he was far from that. it is too bad because Romney had the experience (financial, the olympics and he was govenr of a state that successfully rolled out the first medicare reform.)

You can blame the tea party and other in party child like squabbles for almost all the solvable problems in the US. It is too bad because anyone with a half of brain cell would agree with their main message; to stop washington entitlements and lower government spending.

So the real question is; If everyone on the right and the left agrees with what their agenda is, then why can't they win an election?

They can't win an election because they can't seem to figure out what their ideology actually is. Sure, they seem to know when they speak or debate, or at least their talking heads on the radio do. But when it comes to actually choosing a candidate, they pick John McCain with his more liberal senate voting record than Hillary, or they pick wild-eyes Romney that while a better idea and more qualified than Obama, lacked being able to project that he was a normal person. They'll probably run him again.

The Republican's problem is their establishment. They've got two widely divided camps, the old guard globalist business republicans and then the true conservatives. You'd think the conservatives would be the majority, but when it comes down to the primaries, it doesn't seem to pan out that way. Lately they always seem to pick the most liberal guy in the lineup.

It's their schizophrenia that keeps them from winning.

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

It's their schizophrenia that keeps them from winning.

no, it is their narrow minded policies that keep them from winning. The reason why they choose the most liberal to run for them is because they can't win otherwise.

Most of the right wing social policies may work in small town s but would be a disaster in large cities

and then there is this thing that the right always tries to shove down our faces... the so called superior religious morals. They may work on the farm but we really know what the farmers daughter does at night..

then their is this hatred towards gay people...

then there's their need to force their religious views down my throat...

and finally I really feel bad for middle america conservatives. As they are portrayed and hard workers, working the land and the core of american values,.. their own republican right wing party makes backroom deals for corporation to steal those farms from good hard working people for pennies on the dollar,.. or if any genetic material is found in any of their crops these farmers are then sued into oblivion and lose a life time's work and their entire families future.

Maybe you are correct and they are schizophrenic; they pretend to represent middle american farming culture and morals with one hand and they are stealing the same middle americs's future with the other.

[FightTheFuture]

Republicans haven't won a lot of  elections LATELY.  The political tide ebbs and flows. Short-sighted liberals would save themselves a considerable amount of angst to keep that in mind.

I suspect the upcoming midterm elections may take a few of our friends on the left side of the aisle, by surprise.


And another thing, this utter nonsense about how Republicans, and conservatives, are all homophobeesand religious nuts, is absolute bunk. I, personally -- along with practically every other conservative that I know, & I know a bunch -- could not possibly care less who you worship -- or not; who you're doing or what you do with your free time, just as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else. So, please, do us all a big favor and get over your victimhood complex, already

[SciFiAuthor]

no, it is their narrow minded policies that keep them from winning. The reason why they choose the most liberal to run for them is because they can't win otherwise.

Nah. Head into the inner city and frame your argument just so. You'll find American blacks who vote Democrat to be the most homophobic people you'll ever meet. Or likewise, head to the trailer park and you can sell socialism so long as you convince them that it's what god wants. Our politics are not about the issues themselves, they're about the talking points on both sides. People in the political industry make their living coming up with those talking points, "war on women" and so forth. It's a matter of PR strategy and promotion, just like anything else today. If you play around with that when talking politics with people, and I encourage that, you'll be amazed at how malleable they actually are if you know how to frame it.

Most of the right wing social policies may work in small town s but would be a disaster in large cities

Guiliani did well with New York. You really don't need a mayor telling you that you drink too many sodas, though. That's pretty well the content of the politics of most mayors today. Smoking bans and other bullshit. They don't really have the ability to enact much in the way of social programs or anything meaningful. They're just a mayor, after all.

and then there is this thing that the right always tries to shove down our faces... the so called superior religious morals. They may work on the farm but we really know what the farmers daughter does at night.

Yes, but you have a new morality. Thou shalt not sin against thy planet, thou shalt not infringe upon a woman's rights, and so on. Morality is great for political control. That's it's true purpose. And the left in the US is just as moral and righteous as the right. You're simply inventing a new morality to replace the old.

then their is this hatred towards gay people...

I don't see a difference. The gays are screwed. The right hates them in order to placate the religious right, and the left uses them for political gain, but is just as willing to throw them under the bus for political gain. I'm for treating them fairly and solving their concerns reasonably and in a thought-out logical manner--they do have some valid points--but let's not keep using them as a wedge issue to be brought up every election cycle to fire up the base. Get it done and over with and let them pursue happiness. Neither side actually wants that though, despite clear solutions being advanced by the libertarians and free thinkers.

then there's their need to force their religious views down my throat...

They're the party that represents the religious, so they will do that. That's what they're supposed to do and when they don't the religious stay home and don't vote. To be honest, I can't really see a difference between the two sides. The left behaves as a religion, advances a new morality of political correctness and green living, and seems fully willing to play on people's inherent need for something greater and that's why the talking points and wedge issues are dramatically overblown as greater issues than they really are. You're all just a bunch of cults to me.

and finally I really feel bad for middle america conservatives. As they are portrayed and hard workers, working the land and the core of american values,.. their own republican right wing party makes backroom deals for corporation to steal those farms from good hard working people for pennies on the dollar,.. or if any genetic material is found in any of their crops these farmers are then sued into oblivion and lose a life time's work and their entire families future

Well, actually, they make deals with Obama. Boehner is always ready to cut a deal. You don't have a political system that is free from corruption, even on it's most basic levels. You don't have politicians that agree with you. You have politicians that work for themselves and placate us with our little games of abortion debates and gay rights fights.

Maybe you are correct and they are schizophrenic; they pretend to represent middle american farming culture and morals with one hand and they are stealing the same middle americs's future with the other.

Well, actually, living in the center of the middle-American farming culture (I live out in the country in Missouri) I find nothing but Democrats and Republicans fighting like everywhere else. Red is not really so red as people might think because of Democratic farming subsidies for the last 60 years. I also formerly lived in several big cities, including Chicago and New York, and found the population not so liberal as everyone suspects. Where I found the real core of conservatism was in the suburbs of the cities. That's where their numbers actually are. The only reason the liberals have any power is because the Democratic party is good at convincing people that they're going to give them something for nothing. Well, that's not good policy; that's bribery.

[NowhereInTime]

Nah. Head into the inner city and frame your argument just so. You'll find American blacks who vote Democrat to be the most homophobic people you'll ever meet. Or likewise, head to the trailer park and you can sell socialism so long as you convince them that it's what god wants. Our politics are not about the issues themselves, they're about the talking points on both sides. People in the political industry make their living coming up with those talking points, "war on women" and so forth. It's a matter of PR strategy and promotion, just like anything else today. If you play around with that when talking politics with people, and I encourage that, you'll be amazed at how malleable they actually are if you know how to frame it.

Guiliani did well with New York. You really don't need a mayor telling you that you drink too many sodas, though. That's pretty well the content of the politics of most mayors today. Smoking bans and other bullshit. They don't really have the ability to enact much in the way of social programs or anything meaningful. They're just a mayor, after all.

Yes, but you have a new morality. Thou shalt not sin against thy planet, thou shalt not infringe upon a woman's rights, and so on. Morality is great for political control. That's it's true purpose. And the left in the US is just as moral and righteous as the right. You're simply inventing a new morality to replace the old.

I don't see a difference. The gays are screwed. The right hates them in order to placate the religious right, and the left uses them for political gain, but is just as willing to throw them under the bus for political gain. I'm for treating them fairly and solving their concerns reasonably and in a thought-out logical manner--they do have some valid points--but let's not keep using them as a wedge issue to be brought up every election cycle to fire up the base. Get it done and over with and let them pursue happiness. Neither side actually wants that though, despite clear solutions being advanced by the libertarians and free thinkers.

They're the party that represents the religious, so they will do that. That's what they're supposed to do and when they don't the religious stay home and don't vote. To be honest, I can't really see a difference between the two sides. The left behaves as a religion, advances a new morality of political correctness and green living, and seems fully willing to play on people's inherent need for something greater and that's why the talking points and wedge issues are dramatically overblown as greater issues than they really are. You're all just a bunch of cults to me.

Well, actually, they make deals with Obama. Boehner is always ready to cut a deal. You don't have a political system that is free from corruption, even on it's most basic levels. You don't have politicians that agree with you. You have politicians that work for themselves and placate us with our little games of abortion debates and gay rights fights.

Well, actually, living in the center of the middle-American farming culture (I live out in the country in Missouri) I find nothing but Democrats and Republicans fighting like everywhere else. Red is not really so red as people might think because of Democratic farming subsidies for the last 60 years. I also formerly lived in several big cities, including Chicago and New York, and found the population not so liberal as everyone suspects. Where I found the real core of conservatism was in the suburbs of the cities. That's where their numbers actually are. The only reason the liberals have any power is because the Democratic party is good at convincing people that they're going to give them something for nothing. Well, that's not good policy; that's bribery.

Whereas the Republicans never bribe anyone.  (Tax cuts, anyone?)

[Kate the Bionic Uterus]

So, please, do us all a big favour and get over your victim hood complex, already

Let me make this clear; don't start with an insult and end with an insult or I'll just ignore you from now on. Grow up, be a man and put your thinking cap on. If that is the only bone you can chew on in my post then I see that as a victory. You took the bait. Thank you for reminding me that the republicans have been fighting for gay rights all these years and that the conservative core of the party are now representing gay and lesbians on the national stage. I am positive that my gay sisters and brothers are feeling very comfortable knowing this good news. *throwing up*

I am happy so see that at least SciFiAuthor bothered to think before posting something that you may want to do in the future if we are to converse again.

I am not interested in the normal dribble to goes for conversation in this "Politics" room. I am already bored of it but I do love political debate and I have been known become friendly with people that I disagree with entirely as long as the conversation is friendly and not personalized.

Nah. Head into the inner city and frame your argument just so. You'll find American blacks who vote Democrat to be the most homophobic people you'll ever meet. Or likewise, head to the trailer park and you can sell socialism so long as you convince them that it's what god wants.

Of all the people here that post representing the American right, you are the only one that sounds mentally stable (no really... I have read the other threads going on and it sounds like conversation that I would hear in prison when I was doing psychological/behavioural studies for my professor). If you are the man I think you are then I am sure you can try and persuade me to your way of thinking without the bigoted attitudes that have been represented here.

Racism is found in every class of society. If that was the point you were trying to make then I agree. There are rich kids in Santa Monica that are homophobic just like there are people inner cities and rural communities. It all comes down to life experience.

Lets say you grew up in a small rural town and never saw an Arab/Muslim kid. You never saw them, never played with them, you never had the opportunity to call them a friend. You never had any positive experiences with them when you were growing up and so when you became an adult it was easy for you to believe all the prejudices against Arabs and Muslims because you had nothing to compare it to.

You see, when we interview neo nazi gang members like the aryan brotherhood in prison what we learn is that they have grown up in a limited social environment with little or no interaction with other races. These people have never had the chance to be friendly with other cultures.

What we also have found out is that when white inmates are forced to work with black inmates that friendships and bonds are created. Of course there are the leaders of both groups that are beyond repair but study after study shows that racism and prejudice exist because of the lack of life experience with other cultures at an early age.

The same problems that exist in inner cities exist in every city, town and village in the entire world. Certain problems are magnified in inner cities and others in trailer parks but they are by no means unique.

I don't see a difference. The gays are screwed. The right hates them in order to placate the religious right, and the left uses them for political gain, but is just as willing to throw them under the bus for political gain.

Come on, use your head for a second. The gay and lesbian population fought for their rights and chose one party over the other. They joined a party and influenced policy from within. You are better than this... you have insulted an entire group of Americans with this prejudice remark. BOOO! You can do better. You are smarter than this. Do better next time.

You're all just a bunch of cults to me.

BOOO! Really, come on, this is something I expect to hear when I walk into a Jr. High School classroom. You are smarter than this. Please refrain from the prejudicial nonsense in our future communications.

Well, actually, living in the center of the middle-American farming culture (I live out in the country in Missouri) ...
The only reason the liberals have any power is because the Democratic party is good at convincing people that they're going to give them something for nothing. Well, that's not good policy; that's bribery.

HAhahaha I can take a shot as good as I can give and since this mimics my shot against the republicans with their schizophrenic behaviour I can accept this as what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I still dislike your use of the word socialist as if you are trying to scare people into believing that social policies equate that of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia. That historic type of socialism is not the same as this millenniums successful and democratic European countries and Canada. Again it really is an insult to my intelligence. STOP THAT PLEASE.

I am Canadian, highly educated and have a very large and close family living in both Canada and in the USA. I travel to see them often enough to warrant my express pass at the border. They live in Chicago, Miami, NYC, Malibu and San Diego and we live all over Canada as well. The standard of living, education and medical service is the same. Sorry to disappoint you but the US is far from perfect and those other human beings living in those OH SO SCARY democratic socialist/capitalist countries in Europe and the ones living in Canada have all the freedom and health as you do. Time to get off you high horse and stop being so narcissistic. There's an entire planet out there and we are just fine tyvm. 

I have no patience for the tea party but I am a libertarian at heart and have made many right wing libertarians (the normal ones) and some tea partier friendships  (as much as one can over the net) so if you want to continue debating it needs to be civil or I have other things to do.

[SciFiAuthor]

Whereas the Republicans never bribe anyone.  (Tax cuts, anyone?)

It's the same tactic, sure. I don't know that I'd characterize it as a bribe though, they're just saying they'll let you keep more of your money. While there's certainly point where that must stop (read my lips, no new taxes . . . except this one . . . oh and this one), it's not quite in the same league as your politicians.

Your guys have it set up where your politicians buy their job by bribing for votes all while taking the money from the constituency of the opposition.

[PB the Deplorable]

Whereas the Republicans never bribe anyone.  (Tax cuts, anyone?)

How is people keeping their own money a bribe?  A:  It isn't.

[SciFiAuthor]

Of all the people here that post representing the American right, you are the only one that sounds mentally stable (no really... I have read the other threads going on and it sounds like conversation that I would hear in prison when I was doing psychological/behavioural studies for my professor). If you are the man I think you are then I am sure you can try and persuade me to your way of thinking without the bigoted attitudes that have been represented here.

I'm not right wing, I'm a pragmatist and a classical humanist sitting outside the spectrum.

Racism is found in every class of society. If that was the point you were trying to make then I agree. There are rich kids in Santa Monica that are homophobic just like there are people inner cities and rural communities. It all comes down to life experience.

While that's true, my point was more that the Democrats and Republicans both have their racist and homophobic elements and if you say something just so to most voters, they'll buy into it. They seem identical in that respect to me and neither side wants to admit it.

Lets say you grew up in a small rural town and never saw an Arab/Muslim kid. You never saw them, never played with them, you never had the opportunity to call them a friend. You never had any positive experiences with them when you were growing up and so when you became an adult it was easy for you to believe all the prejudices against Arabs and Muslims because you had nothing to compare it to.

Sure, though the opposite can also happen. Exposure can create racism just the same, Iraqis vs. Kurds, Turks vs. Greeks and so on. Other social issues play a role and you can have two people that grew up on the same block hating the hell out of each other simply for being what they are.

You see, when we interview neo nazi gang members like the aryan brotherhood in prison what we learn is that they have grown up in a limited social environment with little or no interaction with other races. These people have never had the chance to be friendly with other cultures.

Maybe, but I would skeptical that it would be that clean cut. There are also cases such as Serbs and Muslims where they're right next to each other, yet vehemently loathing. They immigrate and stick together, yet still loathe. Another would be Poles and Jews in Poland pre-WWII.

What we also have found out is that when white inmates are forced to work with black inmates that friendships and bonds are created. Of course there are the leaders of both groups that are beyond repair but study after study shows that racism and prejudice exist because of the lack of life experience with other cultures at an early age.

The best idea is one pan-global culture. It's already heading in that direction.

Come on, use your head for a second. The gay and lesbian population fought for their rights and chose one party over the other. They joined a party and influenced policy from within. You are better than this... you have insulted an entire group of Americans with this prejudice remark. BOOO! You can do better. You are smarter than this. Do better next time.

I don't buy it. I saw the gays get conveniently thrown under the bus during the NC primary by the Democrats. I saw Gavin Newsome use gay marriage in SF to wag the dog. The left uses them and aren't really doing them very many favors when you get down to it. I made no insulting remarks to anyone, you're attempting to color my point.

BOOO! Really, come on, this is something I expect to hear when I walk into a Jr. High School classroom. You are smarter than this. Please refrain from the prejudicial nonsense in our future communications.

Prejudice? Not sufficient. Take the point on its merit and rebut, please. Don't attempt to escape from it by coloring the issue. You are creating a new morality, and you just demonstrated it by defacto calling me a heretic. There is no difference between that and a bishop railing from the pulpit about sinners.

I still dislike your use of the word socialist as if you are trying to scare people into believing that social policies equate that of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia. That historic type of socialism is not the same as this millenniums successful and democratic European countries and Canada. Again it really is an insult to my intelligence. STOP THAT PLEASE.

I use the term as it is defined. In another thread, I wrote extensively how Nazi Germany was neither right nor left, and Stalinist Russia was in fact communist, not socialist. Let's not indulge in newspeak, it will get us nowhere fast.

I am Canadian, highly educated and have a very large and close family living in both Canada and in the USA. I travel to see them often enough to warrant my express pass at the border. They live in Chicago, Miami, NYC, Malibu and San Diego and we live all over Canada as well. The standard of living, education and medical service is the same. Sorry to disappoint you but the US is far from perfect and those other human beings living in those OH SO SCARY democratic socialist/capitalist countries in Europe and the ones living in Canada have all the freedom and health as you do. Time to get off you high horse and stop being so narcissistic. There's an entire planet out there and we are just fine tyvm.

You seem to have a preconception. If an idea proves to be viable and sustainable, then I have no problem implementing it. Even a socialist idea. Where I have a problem is if such an idea is advanced to further some hidden agenda or to further some politician's career at the expense of someone else. As far as the US, I would actually characterize it as heavily damaged, not what it used to be, and fast on its way to degrading into something more like Mexico. I own property outside the US specifically because I'm not all that keen on the place any longer.

I have no patience for the tea party but I am a libertarian at heart and have made many right wing libertarians (the normal ones) and some tea partier friendships  (as much as one can over the net) so if you want to continue debating it needs to be civil or I have other things to do.

I'm not member of the tea party or a libertarian. I only bear a few of their ideas, but am conversely quite pro-subsidy and accepting of regulations so long as they make sense. If anything, I am a utopian at heart.

[FightTheFuture]

Let me make this clear; don't start with an insult and end with an insult or I'll just ignore you from now on. Grow up, be a man and put your thinking cap on. If that is the only bone you can chew on in my post then I see that as a victory. You took the bait. Thank you for reminding me that the republicans have been fighting for gay rights all these years and that the conservative core of the party are now representing gay and lesbians on the national stage. I am positive that my gay sisters and brothers are feeling very comfortable knowing this good news. *throwing up*

I am happy so see that at least SciFiAuthor bothered to think before posting something that you may want to do in the future if we are to converse again.

I am not interested in the normal dribble to goes for conversation in this "Politics" room. I am already bored of it but I do love political debate and I have been known become friendly with people that I disagree with entirely as long as the conversation is friendly and not personalized.

Of all the people here that post representing the American right, you are the only one that sounds mentally stable (no really... I have read the other threads going on and it sounds like conversation that I would hear in prison when I was doing psychological/behavioural studies for my professor). If you are the man I think you are then I am sure you can try and persuade me to your way of thinking without the bigoted attitudes that have been represented here.

Racism is found in every class of society. If that was the point you were trying to make then I agree. There are rich kids in Santa Monica that are homophobic just like there are people inner cities and rural communities. It all comes down to life experience.

Lets say you grew up in a small rural town and never saw an Arab/Muslim kid. You never saw them, never played with them, you never had the opportunity to call them a friend. You never had any positive experiences with them when you were growing up and so when you became an adult it was easy for you to believe all the prejudices against Arabs and Muslims because you had nothing to compare it to.

You see, when we interview neo nazi gang members like the aryan brotherhood in prison what we learn is that they have grown up in a limited social environment with little or no interaction with other races. These people have never had the chance to be friendly with other cultures.

What we also have found out is that when white inmates are forced to work with black inmates that friendships and bonds are created. Of course there are the leaders of both groups that are beyond repair but study after study shows that racism and prejudice exist because of the lack of life experience with other cultures at an early age.

The same problems that exist in inner cities exist in every city, town and village in the entire world. Certain problems are magnified in inner cities and others in trailer parks but they are by no means unique.



Come on, use your head for a second. The gay and lesbian population fought for their rights and chose one party over the other. They joined a party and influenced policy from within. You are better than this... you have insulted an entire group of Americans with this prejudice remark. BOOO! You can do better. You are smarter than this. Do better next time.

BOOO! Really, come on, this is something I expect to hear when I walk into a Jr. High School classroom. You are smarter than this. Please refrain from the prejudicial nonsense in our future communications.

HAhahaha I can take a shot as good as I can give and since this mimics my shot against the republicans with their schizophrenic behaviour I can accept this as what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I still dislike your use of the word socialist as if you are trying to scare people into believing that social policies equate that of Nazi Germany and Stalin's Russia. That historic type of socialism is not the same as this millenniums successful and democratic European countries and Canada. Again it really is an insult to my intelligence. STOP THAT PLEASE.

I am Canadian, highly educated and have a very large and close family living in both Canada and in the USA. I travel to see them often enough to warrant my express pass at the border. They live in Chicago, Miami, NYC, Malibu and San Diego and we live all over Canada as well. The standard of living, education and medical service is the same. Sorry to disappoint you but the US is far from perfect and those other human beings living in those OH SO SCARY democratic socialist/capitalist countries in Europe and the ones living in Canada have all the freedom and health as you do. Time to get off you high horse and stop being so narcissistic. There's an entire planet out there and we are just fine tyvm. 

I have no patience for the tea party but I am a libertarian at heart and have made many right wing libertarians (the normal ones) and some tea partier friendships  (as much as one can over the net) so if you want to continue debating it needs to be civil or I have other things to do.

Holy Tolstoy! I'm thinkin' Bionic PMS here!

[NowhereInTime]

How is people keeping their own money a bribe?  A:  It isn't.

Says the chief bellyacher about deficits. The whole tax cut gimmick fed the rich and failed the rest of us. Reagan cut taxes then ran up massive deficits, but somehow that's ok. Clinton got us to balance so that we closed the Treasury market, but W kept cutting taxes and charging it to the future.
As to "keeping their own money", you know the rich priced tax cuts into salaries and wages which is a big part of the reason they have been stagnant for four decades.  More conservative flim flam.

[NowhereInTime]

Holy Tolstoy! I'm thinkin' Bionic PMS here!

You really come off lame when you do the misogynist crap.

[FightTheFuture]

You really come off lame when you do the misogynist crap.

Lighten up, Francis. Just poking fun.

Go back and read some of her crap, and then get back to me. Capisce?

[Yorkshire pud]

Lighten up, Francis. Just poking fun.

Go back and read some of her crap, and then get back to me. Capisce?

The difference being is Kate's 'crap' isn't. Whereas almost all your crap is, erm, crap.

[PB the Deplorable]

Says the chief bellyacher about deficits. The whole tax cut gimmick fed the rich and failed the rest of us. Reagan cut taxes then ran up massive deficits, but somehow that's ok. Clinton got us to balance so that we closed the Treasury market, but W kept cutting taxes and charging it to the future.
As to "keeping their own money", you know the rich priced tax cuts into salaries and wages which is a big part of the reason they have been stagnant for four decades.  More conservative flim flam.

It was Gingrich and the Republican Congress that brought the budget into balance in the 90s.  That and the second decade of the Reagan economy still creating jobs, income, wealth, and tax revenues.

But you're against all that, and for Comrade Obama and his deficits and shit economy.  Mind boggling.

[FightTheFuture]

The difference being is Kate's 'crap' isn't. Whereas almost all your crap is, erm, crap.

And here I was thinking that we were making some headway towards being civil to each other.

I want you to know how utterly devastated I am.

[Yorkshire pud]

And here I was thinking that we were making some headway towards being civil to each other.

I want you to know how utterly devastated I am.

Damn.. It's the limey bastard in me coming out. 

[Ben Shockley]

KATE! YO, KATE!

We never met, but I love you.

[Birdie]

It was Gingrich and the Republican Congress that brought the budget into balance in the 90s.  That and the second decade of the Reagan economy still creating jobs, income, wealth, and tax revenues.

But you're against all that, and for Comrade Obama and his deficits and shit economy.  Mind boggling.

I find it very interesting you claim Congress fixed the deficit under Clinton, but Obama alone owns and created the current deficit. I call BS. You can't have it both ways.
Either you believe Congress, as a whole, is responsible for creating and implementing economic policy OR the President, whomever it may be, is responsible.
The President proposes and guides, but ultimately, it is the responsibility of Congress to fine tune the proposed budget and get it passed. You know this, every fifth grader knows this.
Therefore, Congress is to blame for any current deficit because they refused to pass a budget (which was desperately needed in order to fix the economic mess created by the previous 2 Congresses).

Why did they choose to do something so stupid and harmful to their beloved, 'exceptional' country? They were pandering to their shrinking base by rejecting Obamacare framework. If I remember correctly, that the beginning of such gems as 'death panels' and 'keep your govment hands off my Medicare.' They were bullied by Norquist and his moronic 'Pledge' (and his best buddies, those deep-pocketed Koch brothers). And, they did it just to be dicks. They sure showed that uppity, young black man who the boss of Washington really was. Smh.
Of course, in the current, immature conservative fashion, they then pointed the finger at everyone else, but mostly at one man. They were outraged, as usual. Yawn. Then we had to listen to Romney repeatedly whine about Obama not passing a budget during the last primary and election. Utter BS lapped up and spewed back out by luminaries like Limbaugh and Fox News hosts. Blech.

Why do people waste so much time bitching about Obama when the corrupt, lobby-collared Congress is to blame for the mess this country has become? They are the ones who have been in the same seats for years, sometimes decades. Even if a President was capable of making serious change, it would be years until the effect was felt. Eight years is a drop in the ocean.

[PB the Deplorable]

You are right about the mess we are in.  I agree with that.  And all those entrenched members of Congress - both parties - are killing us.

You touched on the budget battle between the Executive Branch and the Congress.  What happens in reality is the stronger side gets more of what they want than the weaker side.  Every budget fight is different.   Right now the R's are showing incredible weakness and the Senate mostly just carries water for Obama.

Bush II was a terrible President.  Cutting taxes and generating all that additional spending at the same time was appalling.  It cost the R's the House and Senate, and rightly so.


We have never had a budget under Obama, to date.  It's been a series of Continuing Resolutions.  These same feckless R's retook the House and are apparently happy just going along with whatever Obama wants.

Look what happens when a handful of Tea Party types stand up and say 'No'.  The whole world condemns them for 'shutting down the government'. 

Other than electing more Tea Party types, what do you suggest?

[PB the Deplorable]

... they did it just to be dicks. They sure showed that uppity, young black man who the boss of Washington really was...

Yeah, it's because he's black.

Never mind the Marxist racist anti-American church he attended, or his 60s domestic terrorist BFF and his other associates, or his various illegal and unconstitutional dictatorial actions, his blind spot (to put it nicely) when it comes to Islamic terror, the arrogance and incompetence, his lack of understanding how the economy works, his misguided worldview...



By the way, what is it that people think Obama wanted from Congress but didn't get?

[NowhereInTime]

By the way, what is it that people think Obama wanted from Congress but didn't get?

Cooperation.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, it's because he's black.

Never mind the Marxist racist anti-American church he attended, or his 60s domestic terrorist BFF and his other associates, or his various illegal and unconstitutional dictatorial actions, his blind spot (to put it nicely) when it comes to Islamic terror, the arrogance and incompetence, his lack of understanding how the economy works, his misguided worldview...

Guilty by association? I see...

As for the blind spot. Really? That couldn't explain why the measures brought in by Dubya haven't been repealed. Such as taking shoes off, such as scanners, such as no liquids, such as air marshals, such as grunts with the personalities of the missing link with 'Homeland security' on their epaulettes.  Having a visa denied if you're a UK citizen going to the USA on vacation and been arrested in the UK for anything...Not charged, not convicted, arrested.. This means there is an assumption of guilt. Irrespective if the police got the wrong person, fitted someone up, mistaken identity, wrong place wrong time etc.. Yep, Obama capitulates that much even the shutting of Guantanamo hasn't happened (as promised).

[Ben Shockley]

Yeah, it's because he's black.

For once, some simple truth from the booger-crusted fingers of a Republican voter.

[PB the Deplorable]

Guilty by association? I see...

As for the blind spot. Really? That couldn't explain why the measures brought in by Dubya haven't been repealed. Such as taking shoes off, such as scanners, such as no liquids, such as air marshals, such as grunts with the personalities of the missing link with 'Homeland security' on their epaulettes...

If these are his only associates, or main associates, or the associates that influence him, yes.  This isn't a court of law, it's politics - we have every right to make inferences, have suspicions, come to conclusions, etc, about anyone.  Maybe if he wasn't hiding who he is, what he's been up to from college on, and released the usual documentation, people would be more comfortable.  Unfortunately he's lived up to - or down to - what we suspected of him all along.

As far as him not repealing the measures you mentioned - he's quite comfortable repressing us.  Doesn't mean he's not a little too friendly with what some consider terrorist groups, like CAIR and the Moslem Brotherhood.

[Ben Shockley]

If these are his only associates, or main associates, or the associates that influence him, yes.  This isn't a court of law, it's politics - we have every right to make inferences, have suspicions, come to conclusions, etc, about anyone.  Maybe if he wasn't hiding who he is, what he's been up to from college on, and released the usual documentation, people would be more comfortable.  Unfortunately he's lived up to - or down to - what we suspected of him all along.

As far as him not repealing the measures you mentioned - he's quite comfortable repressing us.  Doesn't mean he's not a little too friendly with what some consider terrorist groups, like CAIR and the Moslem Brotherhood.

Damn, P*B -- it must be hell to live in your world where NO Congressional Reps are far-out enough for you.

[West of the Rockies]

Well, Rick Perry is posturing for another go... I think he is damaged goods, that his moment is done.  The crazy war cry shot down Howard Dean for good, and I think "Oops" did in Governor Goodhair.

Thirsty Marc Rubio, Jindal also will have to overcome early misfires.  Both look too young. 

Christie's day in the sun is done.

I think Rand, Ted or Jeb will get the nod.

Might Mitt give it a go