The Two Party System is an Illusion....

[PB the Deplorable]

You tell us? But it's a bit strawman anyway; you have the highest murder rate in the western world, so clearly you're locking up the wrong people, or your police and justice system is woefully inadequate.

I think I've mentioned this before, but the various statistics regarding US society in general should really be broken out separately between our inner cities and everyone else - unemployment, education, health, addiction, dependence, crime, income, wealth, you name it.  Just lumping everything together gives one a skewed view of the country.  It's much worse in the inner city, much better everywhere else.

Yes there is crime in the better parts of the cities, in suburbia, and in rural America - and more is leaking into these areas now due to meth-heads and other fools, but so much of it is contained in the inner city.


And let's once again understand that these hell holes were created by Liberal policies (modern American Liberals, not the dictionary definition of Liberal), and have been run by one-party big-city 'Progressive' Political Machines for decades, for generations now.  The big city Democrats are 100% responsible for this.

Trillions of dollars have been spent on the 'War on Poverty'.  That money has been completely wasted.  It's long past time everyone understood Liberal and 'Progressive policies have been - and continue to be - complete failures, and remove these people from office. 

[Yorkshire pud]

They have the right people locked up.  There are a lot more that belong there.

Really? Even the ones who are locked up due to miscarriages of justice?

[Yorkshire pud]

were created by Liberal policies (modern American Liberals, not the dictionary definition of Liberal),

Ahhh. Predictably liberal gets a mention. So nothing to do with anything that can be attributed to right wing policies. Phew! :

[PB the Deplorable]

Really? Even the ones who are locked up due to miscarriages of justice?

There are so many people out on parole, out on probation, people serving time on vastly reduced charges due to plea bargaining, or never caught and arrested.  Most of the people in prison for 'drug charges' are really in for something else, but plead down to just the drug charges.

The District Attorney's offices are so overworked with cases they let many criminals go, or don't even investigate certain crimes, because they don't have quite enough evidence to guarantee a conviction.  The spend their time instead on the easier convictions.

There are so many hurdles to clear before someone is convicted and sentenced, I doubt very much there are many innocent people in prison.  I just don't believe it.

Clearly when there are millions of arrests each year, there are going to be mistakes, but I think by the time the process works it's way through, it isn't very many.  Unless it's something very serious, most first time offenders don't even get any jail time.  Perhaps someone should make a list of which thugs they think should be let out and make the case.


What bothers me are all the various agencies that think they need their own police forces, all the police forces bulking up with swat teams and tactics and military weaponry and attitudes.  They seem to be out harassing regular people who aren't doing anything wrong instead of out on patrol, answering calls, and investigating crimes.

[PB the Deplorable]

Ahhh. Predictably liberal gets a mention. So nothing to do with anything that can be attributed to right wing policies. Phew! :

Well, you tell me.  Which American cities have had right-wing mayors during the past 40 years?  Or a majority on the city council?  It's hard to find even one right-winger on most Big City city councils.

Every once in awhile there is a Moderate like a Giuliani, and the turnaround in the city is dramatic.  Even someone who is a Moderate on some issues like current Democrat Calif Governor Jerry Brown makes great strides in a place like Oakland while they are mayor. 

But soon their time is over and the city quickly reverts under the next 'Progressive'.

[Yorkshire pud]

There are so many people out on parole, out on probation, people serving time on vastly reduced charges due to plea bargaining, or never caught and arrested.  Most of the people in prison for 'drug charges' are really in for something else, but plead down to just the drug charges.

The District Attorney's offices are so overworked with cases they let many criminals go, or don't even investigate certain crimes, because they don't have quite enough evidence to guarantee a conviction.  The spend their time instead on the easier convictions.

There are so many hurdles to clear before someone is convicted and sentenced, I doubt very much there are many innocent people in prison.  I just don't believe it.

No, I don't suppose you do, because that would weaken your argument. And when it comes to looking at things differently to what you've already made your mind up about, you can't even begin to go there.

To imagine that there are no miscarriages of justice (BOTH sides of the guilty/ not guilty position) is naive at best and hopelessly deluded at worst.

Clearly when there are millions of arrests each year, there are going to be mistakes, but I think by the time the process works it's way through, it isn't very many.  Unless it's something very serious, most first time offenders don't even get any jail time.  Perhaps someone should make a list of which thugs they think should be let out and make the case.

Mistake is fine; right up until effects you or someone close, then it's really not fine, is it?

What bothers me are all the various agencies that think they need their own police forces, all the police forces bulking up with swat teams and tactics and military weaponry and attitudes.  They seem to be out harassing regular people who aren't doing anything wrong instead of out on patrol, answering calls, and investigating crimes.

Yeah, that's what happens when you bring free markets into a municipal  scenario. Then it becomes less 'serving the people' and more 'How much can I make from this?'

Similar thing is beginning to start here; since Cameron came in, in 2009, it's more so...Police forces have heavy restrictions on recruitment, so the service is far fewer than it should be, private contractors are brought in, invoices sent out, and police chiefs end up having to be media savvy, PR experts and less about actual policing. And by happy coincidence, when they retire they set up private consultancy companies, so they can sell their expertise back to the police authority they just retired from; at great expense! Trebles all round. 

[PB the Deplorable]

No, I don't suppose you do, because that would weaken your argument. And when it comes to looking at things differently to what you've already made your mind up about, you can't even begin to go there...

I've changed my mind on plenty of things over the years, and have given the other side my full attention on pretty much every issue whether I've changed my mind or not.  I've found it's the Libs that are the most close minded when it comes to hearing the other side.  And the 'Progressives'?  They are so indoctrinated as to be a completely lost cause - and an angry one at that.

... To imagine that there are no miscarriages of justice (BOTH sides of the guilty/ not guilty position) is naive at best and hopelessly deluded at worst...

I did not say there were none.  We do the best we can as a society, with the (unrealistic) goal being none.  I just don't advocate letting them all out just in case a few are innocent.  Many more are raped, murdered, and otherwise victimized when we let the thugs out, so it's not like we can just let people out with no repercussions (ask Mike Dukakis about that).  I would also guess most of the 'innocent' inmates are gang bangers that did other shit they didn't get caught for anyway.  It's not like the cops are yanking random honest people out of their homes and offices on trumped up charges, with the cases going all the way through the system to conviction.

Anyway the current system is more palatable than the alternative - just killing the fuckers.  Which is the ultimate alternative.  As part of the social contract we agree to have the criminal justice system handle things instead of taking care of it ourselves or hiring it done.

[Juan]

Part of the trouble is that the various legislatures, both Congress and state, have passed mandatory minimum sentences for non-violent offenses.  The result is that non-violent offenders are held in jail while violent offenders are released due to prison overcrowding.

[onan]

Prisons are a business, but in so many ways the justice system as a whole is almost as bad. Yes, there are criminals and yes they need to be in prison. But our prison system is broken. The war on drugs has done nothing but increase our prison population and the costs to run those facilities with little success at anything more than recidivism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

In the twenty-five years since the passage of the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, the United States penal population rose from around 300,000 to more than two million. Between 1986 and 1991, African-American women's incarceration in state prisons for drug offenses increased by 828 percent.

[FightTheFuture]

It is my hope, we (as a nation) one day realize that it is impossible to legislate morality.

The only answer is to legalize ALL drugs (with exception of antibiotics, cancer drugs, etc), gambling, and prostitution (provided all participants are 18 years old or older, etc.), while levying a substantial state and federal tax.

[Zoo]

No Victim, No Crime.

As for all those who think they don't look up Innocent people- your joking right since DNA the have released over 2,000 innocent people, over 200 where on death row. This is only the ones who are lucky enough to have people on the outside to introduce new evidence. Not all prisoners have those on the outside, not even counting the ones that are already dead. For one innocent man to be put to death is one to many. We as Americans are better than this and we as humans have to be better than this. Try watching Bryan Stevenson on Ted Talk in fact I will make it easy here is the site and video. Hell who knows you might learn something!!1

http://youtu.be/c2tOp7OxyQ8

[Yorkshire pud]

No Victim, No Crime.
Hell who knows you might learn something!!1

Now Zoo; go now and sit in a darkened room. Soft soothing music (Beethoven's Pastoral suite will suffice), pour yourself an ice and water free Highland Park, and reflect on what you've just suggested...

'Learn something' only applies if the one's you're directing it at are willing to learn something new. If someone has already made their mind up that wrongful imprisonment is minimal and even if not, well, mistakes happen, and so what?; It doesn't matter, they were probably guilty anyway: what possible chance have you in making them think things differently? It's the fucking liberals fault anyway, EVERYONE knows that. Don't they?

[PB the Deplorable]

Now Zoo; go now and sit in a darkened room. Soft soothing music (Beethoven's Pastoral suite will suffice), pour yourself an ice and water free Highland Park, and reflect on what you've just suggested...

'Learn something' only applies if the one's you're directing it at are willing to learn something new. If someone has already made their mind up that wrongful imprisonment is minimal and even if not, well, mistakes happen, and so what?; It doesn't matter, they were probably guilty anyway: what possible chance have you in making them think things differently? It's the fucking liberals fault anyway, EVERYONE knows that. Don't they?

Do you have a solution other than letting everyone out?  'Cause I'm going to say that's not going to be the answer.  Here's a thought - maybe people shouldn't put themselves in a position to be arrested in the first place. 

It seems like there is a cottage industry in constantly finding fault with the US, mostly from people that live here (not to pick on you, Pud).  I don't get it.  Humans aren't perfect and never will be.  We do the best we can.  Whether I did it or not, I'd rather be arrested and take my chances here in the US than anywhere else.

[onan]

Do you have a solution other than letting everyone out?  'Cause I'm going to say that's not going to be the answer.  Here's a thought - maybe people shouldn't put themselves in a position to be arrested in the first place. 

It seems like there is a cottage industry in constantly finding fault with the US, mostly from people that live here (not to pick on you, Pud).  I don't get it.  Humans aren't perfect and never will be.  We do the best we can.  Whether I did it or not, I'd rather be arrested and take my chances here in the US than anywhere else.

Yet the only real cottage industry here is the penal system. And yes, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time, Baretta. It isn't an either or situation, if only. Especially since some convicted have long sentences due to sale of marijuana. There punishment is/will be more expensive than providing social and psychological intervention.

Look at some of the other issues that stem from for profit prisons. Inmates are put into "job training" positions. They are paid as littls as 40 cents to 4 dollars a day. Private Prisons also manufacture furniture, printing, apparel and more. Last year they made over 900 million in revenues. Which sounds great until you realize that 900 million came directly out of private business' income. Worse it puts such a downward pressure on wages that is impossible for any affected business to compete with, fairly.

Private prisons don't call themselves correction facilities but rather real estate investment trusts; which limits their corporate liability. But trust me they are nothing if not corporate. And they receive more than 40% of their of their total income from the federal government. Yet pay no federal income tax, they are exempt. Two corporations own over 75% of privately owned prisons, over 160 prisons. In 1990 there were 7000 inmates in private prisons in the US 20 years later it is over 130,000. It is all about money, not justice.

[Yorkshire pud]

Do you have a solution other than letting everyone out?  'Cause I'm going to say that's not going to be the answer.  Here's a thought - maybe people shouldn't put themselves in a position to be arrested in the first place. 

It seems like there is a cottage industry in constantly finding fault with the US, mostly from people that live here (not to pick on you, Pud).  I don't get it.  Humans aren't perfect and never will be.  We do the best we can.  Whether I did it or not, I'd rather be arrested and take my chances here in the US than anywhere else.

I don't think anyone is advocating (certainly not I-I've been the victim of crime, so have a vested interest) letting the hard core crims out; I for one would throw the key away for some of the most vile and disgusting; murdering kids, peodophiles, rapists, murderers spring to mind, but I'm sure there are others. I don't know what your drug laws are over there, but it seems you can get a disproportionate length for possession of a bit of weed? Is that so?
A little story; the government (I think previous to Cameron) had an expert advisor, whose unfortunate name is Professor Nutt; he was appointed to do a top down review and assessment of Britain's 'drug' legislation, and the then government lauded his credentials, as they should, he really is an expert in his field. They even went as far to say they'd implement his revue recommendations

After he'd done his revue he made one or two recommendations that must have caused apoplexy in the cabinet. He said that cannabis was less harmful than tobacco and alcohol (no surprises there then), and went on to say that pretty much most prescription medication was far more harmful than cannabis..  and that cannabis should really have it's illegal status reviewed.

Needless to say, because he was 'wrong' he was fired as the government's appointed drugs expert. Much back peddling, much intake of breath, and the absolute refusal to accept the recommendations. The only reason alcohol and tobacco is legal is because our respective governments get a hell of a lot of revenue from it; Prof Nutt also went on to say (post sacking) that there was evidence to suggest the de-criminalisation of all narcotics should be looked at, and make it a revenue generating product. How it would be done is of course something of a debate in itself, but he had support from....Chief police officers! Their work is tied up with catching and trying prosecute the low level players and dealers and missing out on the big fish who are far too clever and connected to get their hands dirty.

Would it work? No idea, but what is happening now isn't working, a dealer is replaced instantly, a supply is reinstated. If as seems to be the case, most prisoners are uneducated, low aspirational, and a lot on drug charges (if not before, many can access drugs inside), simply putting them in prison doesn't stop the problem, it just moves the deck chairs. As Onan says, a lot of fingers are making a lot of money from this skewed and ridiculous set of affairs.. All everyone knows (because they've been told it for so long, so it must be true) is 'drugs are bad'.. Sure are, if you drive a car up to your eyes on co-codamol or other analgesics you're going to be fast tracking to killing yourself or someone else. I'm not advocating that it's safe to have booze or cannabis and drive of course, but the public need to be sure what it is they mean when they say 'drugs'. 

[PB the Deplorable]

I don't agree with the drug laws either.  We were talking about people behind bars that are innocent of the charges.

[onan]

I don't agree with the drug laws either.  We were talking about people behind bars that are innocent of the charges.

Damn, we never stray from a topic.

You made the point, the law was there. Someone broke that law and should suffer the consequences. In following that paradigm, we are locking up people that have done no harm to society. Add to that minimum mandates for drug offenses and this is where we end up.

The two party system isn't an illusion. It is a diseased and corrupt system that needs much more public interest and action, getting rid of money is speech, and limited terms for the elected and their support staff.

[PB the Deplorable]

... The two party system isn't an illusion. It is a diseased and corrupt system that needs much more public interest and action, getting rid of money is speech, and limited terms for the elected and their support staff.

One of the things I've changed my mind on over the years is public campaign finance. 

We all know the system is broken - eliminating campaign contributions and making it illegal for candidates or govt officials to receive anything other than their salaries would go a long ways towards repairing it.   It would end up being cheaper to pay for it ourselves as they would no longer be beholden to financial supporters.

[Quick Karl]

"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace." - James Madison.

[Zoo]

The solution to the two-party system is as simple as the people standing up to the Government and demanding they step down and change the rules. Some say that we need to do this by working from the inside, but what they don't relies is their are rules in place so that new officials are pretty much powerless unless the play-ball( do as they are told). The only way we can break threw without a complete shut down and reboot is to stop voting Republican or Democrat for everything.  Then we might have a chance.

As for the prison thing, we must find a solution of why we are locking up no-violent offenders. We are not looking at the true problem, this is we are ignoring why. Why does one choose crime? Not glory, most just to survive. Don't get me wrong some people are evil trust me I meet them when I was in prison. While I was their I learned a over whelming thing almost everyone their was poor on the outside. So they choose crime to survive. Is it right-No, but when you have nothing and no way to get any thing legally what choice do you have?

As for those who think we should lock them up and throw away the key, well once again you might want to watch the video I put up. Maybe just do a little research your self and disprove any of my statements I have made.

Yorkshire pud- I will never stop trying to give information to others so they have a chance to learn something new. I do like your advice for mediation though.. On a different note my Mom is from the UK, her brother is living in the UK now but has feel off the radar. If I give you some info would you be willing to make a couple calls to locate him. I would be willing to pay or send you a bottle of Missouri Wine for your help. My Mom is stressed because she has no clue what has happened. If you are willing to help PM me, you don't have to by all means just asking.

[Yorkshire pud]

PM sent.

[Ben Shockley]

Yet the only real cottage industry here is the penal system... In 1990 there were 7000 inmates in private prisons in the US 20 years later it is over 130,000. It is all about money, not justice.

I haven't looked up any numbers, but I'd be surprised if it's ONLY 130,000.
Let's not forget a particularly disgusting and threatening "resultant underpinning" of for-profit prisons: the "school-to-prison pipeline."
Those new sweatshop industries need a constant supply of labor, right?  Enter, the "criminalization of youth," and especially how just about anything a kid can do to "get out of line" in school now often gets them a ride to the local jail, at least until and if the parents can raise enough stink via local media to get the kids out.
Not coincidentally, that initial "police contact" at the school by the supposedly-offending kid is often with a private (for-profit) cop, unanswerable to anyone but whoever owns the company he works for: more good ol' capitalist free enterprise, right boys?  If the parents aren't connected, or if the local school board / cops / DA are asshole enough, the kid does time.  Then they have "a record," which makes them more likely to do more time, etc., etc.

[Yorkshire pud]

I haven't looked up any numbers, but I'd be surprised if it's ONLY 130,000.
Let's not forget a particularly disgusting and threatening "resultant underpinning" of for-profit prisons: the "school-to-prison pipeline."
Those new sweatshop industries need a constant supply of labor, right?  Enter, the "criminalization of youth," and especially how just about anything a kid can do to "get out of line" in school now often gets them a ride to the local jail, at least until and if the parents can raise enough stink via local media to get the kids out.
Not coincidentally, that initial "police contact" at the school by the supposedly-offending kid is often with a private (for-profit) cop, unanswerable to anyone but whoever owns the company he works for: more good ol' capitalist free enterprise, right boys?  If the parents aren't connected, or if the local school board / cops / DA are asshole enough, the kid does time.  Then they have "a record," which makes them more likely to do more time, etc., etc.

I think one of the reasons (one of several) is that school teachers are frightened to death of disciplining early years kids.. They know that the kid will go back and tell their parents and next thing, (before any fact finding goes on), the parents will go down to the school, possibly threaten the teacher, but at the very least put something on fart book and hang the teacher out to dry and destroy their professional career. It happens here, so I don't doubt it happens elsewhere. So what happens is the first resort is calling the local police (private or otherwise) and let them deal with it in what the default way is..No longer is it along the lines of taking the kid to one side and finding out why he's being a little monster (abuse at home, peer pressure, sees it every day with his parents); no: The only way to deal with it is to cart him off to jail. The kid then knows no-one really gives a fuck about his or her feelings, so what incentive has he/she to be anything else?

[Zoo]

This is just some facts that the two party system have do for you.

"As we approach the 100 year anniversary of the creation of the Federal Reserve, it is absolutely imperative that we get the American people to understand that the Fed is at the very heart of our economic problems. It is a system of money that was created by the bankers and that operates for the benefit of the bankers.

The American people like to think that we have a “democratic system”, but there is nothing “democratic” about the Federal Reserve. Unelected, unaccountable central planners from a private central bank run our financial system and manage our economy. There is a reason why financial markets respond with a yawn when Barack Obama says something about the economy, but they swing wildly whenever Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke opens his mouth.

The Federal Reserve has far more power over the U.S. economy than anyone else does by a huge margin. The Fed is the biggest Ponzi scheme in the history of the world, and if the American people truly understood how it really works, they would be screaming for it to be abolished immediately. The following are 25 fast facts about the Federal Reserve that everyone should know…

#1 The greatest period of economic growth in U.S. history was when there was no central bank.

#2 The United States never had a persistent, ongoing problem with inflation until the Federal Reserve was created. In the century before the Federal Reserve was created, the average annual rate of inflation was about half a percent. In the century since the Federal Reserve was created, the average annual rate of inflation has been about 3.5 percent, and it would be even higher than that if the inflation numbers were not being so grossly manipulated.

#3 Even using the official numbers, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined by more than 95 percent since the Federal Reserve was created nearly 100 years ago.

#4 The secret November 1910 gathering at Jekyll Island, Georgia during which the plan for the Federal Reserve was hatched was attended by U.S. Senator Nelson W. Aldrich, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department A.P. Andrews and a whole host of representatives from the upper crust of the Wall Street banking establishment.

#5 In 1913, Congress was promised that if the Federal Reserve Act was passed that it would eliminate the business cycle.

#6 The following comes directly from the Fed’s official mission statement: “To provide the nation with a safer, more flexible, and more stable monetary and financial system. Over the years, its role in banking and the economy has expanded.”

#7 It was not an accident that a permanent income tax was also introduced the same year when the Federal Reserve system was established. The whole idea was to transfer wealth from our pockets to the federal government and from the federal government to the bankers.

#8 Within 20 years of the creation of the Federal Reserve, the U.S. economy was plunged into the Great Depression.

#9 If you can believe it, there have been 10 different economic recessions since 1950. The Federal Reserve created the “dotcom bubble”, the Federal Reserve created the “housing bubble” and now it has created the largest bond bubble in the history of the planet.

#10 According to an official government report, the Federal Reserve made 16.1 trillion dollars in secret loans to the big banks during the last financial crisis. The following is a list of loan recipients that was taken directly from page 131 of the report…

Citigroup â€" $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch â€" $1.949 trillion
Bank of America â€" $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC â€" $868 billion
Bear Sterns â€" $853 billion
Goldman Sachs â€" $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland â€" $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase â€" $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS â€" $287 billion
Credit Suisse â€" $262 billion
Lehman Brothers â€" $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo â€" $159 billion
Dexia â€" $159 billion
Wachovia â€" $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale â€" $124 billion
“All Other Borrowers” â€" $2.639 trillion

#11 The Federal Reserve also paid those big banks $659.4 million in fees to help “administer” those secret loans.

#12 The Federal Reserve has created approximately 2.75 trillion dollars out of thin air and injected it into the financial system over the past five years. This has allowed the stock market to soar to unprecedented heights, but it has also caused our financial system to become extremely unstable.

#13 We were told that the purpose of quantitative easing is to help “stimulate the economy”, but today the Federal Reserve is actually paying the big banks not to lend out 1.8 trillion dollars in “excess reserves” that they have parked at the Fed.

#14 Quantitative easing overwhelming benefits those that own stocks and other financial investments. In other words, quantitative easing overwhelmingly favors the very wealthy. Even Barack Obama has admitted that 95 percent of the income gains since he has been president have gone to the top one percent of income earners.

#15 The gap between the top one percent and the rest of the country is now the greatest that it has been since the 1920s.

#16 The Federal Reserve has argued vehemently in federal court that it is “not an agency” of the federal government and therefore not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

#17 The Federal Reserve openly admits that the 12 regional Federal Reserve banks are organized “much like private corporations“.

#18 The regional Federal Reserve banks issue shares of stock to the “member banks” that own them.

#19 The Federal Reserve system greatly favors the biggest banks. Back in 1970, the five largest U.S. banks held 17 percent of all U.S. banking industry assets. Today, the five largest U.S. banks hold 52 percent of all U.S. banking industry assets.

#20 The Federal Reserve is supposed to “regulate” the big banks, but it has done nothing to stop a 441 trillion dollar interest rate derivatives bubble from inflating which could absolutely devastate our entire financial system.

#21 The Federal Reserve was designed to be a perpetual debt machine. The bankers that designed it intended to trap the U.S. government in a perpetual debt spiral from which it could never possibly escape. Since the Federal Reserve was established nearly 100 years ago, the U.S. national debt has gotten more than 5000 times larger.

#22 The U.S. government will spend more than 400 billion dollars just on interest on the national debt this year.

#23 If the average rate of interest on U.S. government debt rises to just 6 percent (and it has been much higher than that in the past), we will be paying out more than a trillion dollars a year just in interest on the national debt.

#24 According to Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution, the U.S. Congress is the one that is supposed to have the authority to “coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures”. So exactly why is the Federal Reserve doing it?

#25 There are plenty of possible alternative financial systems, but at this point all 187 nations that belong to the IMF have a central bank. Are we supposed to believe that this is just some sort of a bizarre coincidence?"(Michael Snyder)

Thought you would like to know some things!!1

[Marc.Knight]

Prisons are a business, but in so many ways the justice system as a whole is almost as bad. Yes, there are criminals and yes they need to be in prison. But our prison system is broken. The war on drugs has done nothing but increase our prison population and the costs to run those facilities with little success at anything more than recidivism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

In the twenty-five years since the passage of the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, the United States penal population rose from around 300,000 to more than two million. Between 1986 and 1991, African-American women's incarceration in state prisons for drug offenses increased by 828 percent.

I haven't seen any studies but it seems easier and easier for someone to end up arrested and put in jail.  Looking at a cop the wrong way can put you in the back of a squad car.  I appreciate the police when they are needed, but there also seems to be a lot more unwarranted aggressiveness toward innocent people.

[wr250]

I haven't seen any studies but it seems easier and easier for someone to end up arrested and put in jail.  Looking at a cop the wrong way can put you in the back of a squad car.  I appreciate the police when they are needed, but there also seems to be a lot more unwarranted aggressiveness toward innocent people.

some would say the average american commits 1-3 felonies a day.
http://kottke.org/13/06/you-commit-three-felonies-a-day

[NowhereInTime]

I haven't seen any studies but it seems easier and easier for someone to end up arrested and put in jail.  Looking at a cop the wrong way can put you in the back of a squad car.  I appreciate the police when they are needed, but there also seems to be a lot more unwarranted aggressiveness toward innocent people.

Spot on.
Now I'm going to say something that will offend many of you at first but, take a breath, re-read, then respond.
I really believe, given many of the forces here in CT, that the priority given to MP's (deservedly so) coming home and filling open jobs has created a gung-ho culture.  This goes beyond "blue wall" to whereas a community/local cop who knows the score in town will bust a felon but basically hassle and move along a misdemeanor, a former MP, with the expectation of full compliance and the virtue of courts-martial, shows little patience with any offense nor any civilian.
There's almost a contempt, it seems, for civilians because so many did not serve while so few did.
I honestly believe over time these cops will grow into their communities, too, and take their training and skills and partner them with experience to be more well rounded officers.

[Yorkshire pud]

Spot on.
Now I'm going to say something that will offend many of you at first but, take a breath, re-read, then respond.
I really believe, given many of the forces here in CT, that the priority given to MP's (deservedly so) coming home and filling open jobs has created a gung-ho culture.  This goes beyond "blue wall" to whereas a community/local cop who knows the score in town will bust a felon but basically hassle and move along a misdemeanor, a former MP, with the expectation of full compliance and the virtue of courts-martial, shows little patience with any offense nor any civilian.
There's almost a contempt, it seems, for civilians because so many did not serve while so few did.
I honestly believe over time these cops will grow into their communities, too, and take their training and skills and partner them with experience to be more well rounded officers.

I can see what you mean, I think it's down to trying  to fit back into civilian life; I don't know what the figures are in the USA, but a high proportion of convicts and homeless in the UK are ex military, it's not just coincidence. When someone is trained to kill people for a living, and depending on your own 'gang' of soldiers, I can imagine it's a hell of a leap to not expect certain things to happen in specific ways when you expect them to happen.

From the military personnel I've known over the years, there's a certain intolerance I think (even if it's subtle) to 'civvies'. I used to be good friends with a captain in the military police (since retired) and he was quite dismissive of what he saw as indiscipline in civilians. He wasn't over enamoured with soldiers from certain regiments either! (There's a reason for that, that's well documented but I won't go into it here).

[Sambo]

If people cared less we'd be better off. Wanna sell drugs? Get a registered business and a venders permit. Buyer beware.

One thing about the USA that has always dumbfounded me is the censoring of swear words and bikinis. Guess that's two things.

Why you guys filling your jails up over stupid shit?

I never understood this dismissive reasoning of obey the laws or pay the price.

As new laws are introduced or freedoms are restricted eventually they will affect you. You really want to wait until then to react more constructively? 

Enjoy your beer and booze while you can, enjoy your guns while you can. Enjoy your entertainment. If I were king I'd ban porn and any TV that did not meet educational standards set by me.  Hell, if I were king you'll be lucky if you qualify to procreate.  You think people's choice of drugs are bad and you want to punish them? I'll show you what punishment is. Bunch of slackjaw faggots 

[Zoo]

     Both make really good statements/points. But when it all falls down to it, it's your fault it is this way. Don't get me wrong at all it is just as my fault to. I have seen police kick young woman in the face because they refused to move when marching against Wars, Banks, and even GMO's. I watched it happen and did nothing. This makes me a bad as the officer who did, in fact even worse."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." (Edmund Burke) Which is so true.Now I'm not saying, eye for a eye, but we still need to film all actions with police and make them accountable for there actions. If you walk out of your home and don't have a video & audio camera go buy one. Because that's are best weapon to fight aggressive police who care nothing about the law. All the way till charges are filed no them for abuse!!1