Art Bell Quits Dark Matter

[shell88]

Well people. Many of you have bones to pick, do remember that having a backbone yourself is essential for being able to pick em, and essential for picking up the phone and sending messages.  Please contact siriusxm and encourage them to work with Art or you will indeed cancel their product.

[DanTSX]

This from the person who prematurely announced RCH's death whether out of stupidity or other nefarious reasons.

Neither.

RIP hoagie

[jblank]

Well people. Many of you have bones to pick, do remember that having a backbone yourself is essential for being able to pick em, and essential for picking up the phone and sending messages.  Please contact siriusxm and encourage them to work with Art or you will indeed cancel their product.

Why not contact Art and convince him to work within the confines of the contract he signed? At least until his next tantrum.

[Textor]

Except what does it tell shareholders about Sirius's position on content ownership...?

I think it actually wouldn't be that bad-- they already agreed he'd get full creative control under them, so giving him the ability to stream from his own website as an independent contributor would not be that far of a stretch. In addition, he could sign another contract with them giving them exclusive distribution rights (with the exception of the live stream at artbell.com) for x amount of years-- which would also allow Art to syndicate to new stations when that contract term expires.

I think, overall, if they let him stream (with their commercials) as an independent, it would benefit Sirius (as they could also keep the current on-demand feature for his show, which would be subscriber-only) by driving the sales for online accounts, giving them ad revenue, and not having to pay Art his $75K would also be a nice perk (for Sirius).

If I were a shareholder, I'd think it'd be a decent deal, overall. They'd still get Art Bell, they'd still get exclusivity (with the exception of artbell.com, which would be live-only, I'd assume), and they'd still get some more business from truckers who want to listen to Art Bell again while in their trucks-- with the rare exception of the jazzy upbeat music telling people the show will return when they fix their shit (I've heard it before... been subscribing for 5 years, so it happens, I'm glad to say, RARELY), the car users will have an awesome experience listening, and any subscriber that wants to listen on-demand won't have any issues, and those who are having issues with the streaming from Sirius during live shows can just go to artbell.com to listen to a better stream.

Everyone could win!

I hope.

Please, Sirius, let him do this?

[Gd5150]

I've contacted YouTube and told them I would continue to log in as long as people keep stealing and posting Art Bell shows. I won't now and never will buy satellite radio. It's outdated.

[HorrorReporter]

Just for the heckles of it, I tried the live chat option on the Sirius website. This is what I got...
Obviously "me" is me and Gabriel was the kind person from Sirius in some most likely 2nd to 3rd world nation:

Gabriel: Hi, my name is Gabriel, Thank you for contacting SiriusXM.  How may I help you?
Gabriel: Hello Bryan.
me: Good afternoon, quick question on INDIE 104, the show DARK MATTER. Are there any negotiations to continue this program?
Gabriel: I will help you with the information regarding Dark Matter.
Gabriel: Please give me a moment.
Gabriel: Your patience is greatly appreciated.
Gabriel: Art Bell has decided to end his Dark Matter program on SiriusXM. We wish him the best in the future."
me: I have been told that Art Bell has asked for the ability to broadcast through his own website, and not be paid by Sirius, but still simulcast on Sirius. Does XM have any opinions on this?
Gabriel: I am sorry, we do not have any updates about it.
Gabriel: We appreciate your comments and want to ensure they reach the appropriate team.  Please click here ( http://www.siriusxm.com/feedback) to provide all your comments.

me: Thank you. one more thing, are there any press office phone numbers I can contact?
Gabriel: I am sorry, we do not have that information, otherwise I would have helped you right away.

All of this is quite meaningless of course.
But what is interesting is that I sent a few emails over the past three weeks to the people at Sirius' press office, explaining that I was writing an article for my site and requesting any information on the success of DARK MATTER, at that time the show was one month old. I got no response--ever.
Today I emailed the same press person.. I got the generic response.

They have their canned talking point.
It appears that Art Bell's request to allow the program to continue in some pseudo-way is not being met with open arms...

[Textor]

They have their canned talking point.
It appears that Art Bell's request to allow the program to continue in some pseudo-way is not being met with open arms...

Honestly, I'd not read too much into it. Most every time a company is asked about an ongoing negotiation, they essentially give the response: "We cannot comment on ongoing <insert thing here>." I think that canned response is their way of saying that without using those words.

[Gemstone]

http://youtu.be/8uR_7Vz6Duo

[Jesus Undercarriage]

Here is George's call to the podcast, talking about Art Bell.

[DontFearTheReaper]

Let's all suppose that EVERYONE who got a SiriusXM subscription so far to listen to Art decides to not cancel if free/when streaming comes about. An absurd supposition, but let's go with it.

Let's also pretend that Art didn't quit the show on Monday, severely damaging the momentum the show may have had in terms of attracting new SiriusXM subscribers.

Do you honestly think that from the moment Art Bell starts streaming the show for free on ArtBell.com, SiriusXM would still get the same number of new subscriptions from Art Bell fans as they would if show was still exclusive to SiriusXM?

The answer to that is a pretty obvious *no*, which is why SiriusXM would be crazy to go along with Art's proposal. They signed Art to do a show that will grow their subscriber base on an ongoing basis. Getting $75k a year back from Art isn't going to be enough to counterbalance that.

[shell88]

You have to contact the proper people not the one's over the net. Actually, phoneing in wouldn't do unless you have some exec number.  E-mailing to the proper decision makers is probable the easiest and the best option.  I think, if your not willing to do it, and you keep whining and complaining move over to the Art Bill Sucks thread.  And those without the backbones and a willingness to do something to help out , your words are like jelly - unsubstantial gibberish.

[Usagi]

You have to contact the proper people not the one's over the net. Actually, phoneing in wouldn't do unless you have some exec number.  E-mailing to the proper decision makers is probable the easiest and the best option.  I think, if your not willing to do it, and you keep whining and complaining move over to the Art Bill Sucks thread.  And those without the backbones and a willingness to do something to help out , your words are like jelly - unsubstantial gibberish.

Yeah, I just sent another email over to Listener Care.  I fully expect another canned response.  Does anyone have the email addresses to people who aren't minimum wage call center workers who, understandably, don't give a shit?

[HorrorReporter]

Let's all suppose that EVERYONE who got a SiriusXM subscription so far to listen to Art decideds to not cancel if free/when streaming comes about. An absurd supposition, but let's go with it.

Let's also pretend that Art didn't quit the show on Monday, severely damaging the momentum the show may have had in terms of attracting new SiriusXM subscribers.

Do you honestly think that from the moment Art Bell starts streaming the show for free on ArtBell.com, SiriusXM would still get the same number of new subscriptions from Art Bell fans as they would if show was still exclusive to SiriusXM?

The answer to that is a pretty obvious *no*, which is why SiriusXM would be crazy to go along with Art's proposal. They signed Art to do a show that will grow their subscriber base on an ongoing basis. Getting $75k a year back from Art isn't going to be enough to counterbalance that.

That may matter if people actually signed up in big numbers for Art Bell. What we don't know are the internal numbers....

[Shawnee]

Art is a classic quitter...I love him too but he is the one that left.

[gbneely]

You have to contact the proper people not the one's over the net. Actually, phoneing in wouldn't do unless you have some exec number.  E-mailing to the proper decision makers is probable the easiest and the best option.  I think, if your not willing to do it, and you keep whining and complaining move over to the Art Bill Sucks thread.  And those without the backbones and a willingness to do something to help out , your words are like jelly - unsubstantial gibberish.

Art Bell is the proper person to contact. He was under contract to do the show and he quit. Whatever his reasons, this is on him. I've let my feelings be known and I'm pretty sure Art has read them. I want him back on the air, but I don't see this as being the fault of Sirius.

[DontFearTheReaper]

they'd still get exclusivity (with the exception of artbell.com, which would be live-only, I'd assume),

THAT ISN'T EXCLUSIVITY.

Think of something you really, really want. There are two places on your street where you can get what you want. Store #1, who was originally and contractually the exclusive distributor of said product, charges you a fee. Store #2 sets up shop and says "come right in and take it off our shelves, don't pay us anything."

Would Store #1 in any, way, shape or form have exclusivity over said product at that point? Would Store #1 recoup the initial investment they made in said product when they assumed they were the exclusive distributor?

I think the answers are absurdly obvious.

I want there to be a solution. I want to listen to Art Bell. Hopefully it happens somehow, and soon. But to claim that the currently-offered solution benefits SiriusXM in any way is ludicrous.

[DontFearTheReaper]

That may matter if people actually signed up in big numbers for Art Bell. What we don't know are the internal numbers....

True. And if they didn't sign up in significant numbers, there is even less incentive for SiriusXM to play poker with Art at this point.

[eddie dean]

Yawn.
I think we get your point.
Move on already.

[Textor]

THAT ISN'T EXCLUSIVITY.

Think of something you really, really want. There are two places on your street where you can get what you want. Store #1, who was originally and contractually the exclusive distributor of said product, charges you a fee. Store #2 sets up shop and says "come right in and take it off our shelves, don't pay us anything."

Would Store #1 in any, way, shape or form have exclusivity over said product at that point? Would Store #1 recoup the initial investment they made in said product when they assumed they were the exclusive distributor?

I think the answers are absurdly obvious.

I want there to be a solution. I want to listen to Art Bell. Hopefully it happens somehow, and soon. But to claim that the currently-offered solution benefits SiriusXM in any way is ludicrous.

I think this doesn't model the situation properly.

Store #1 signed up an exclusive distribution deal over a product.
The manufacturer said, "OK, but we also want to give out samples during very limited hours!"

The manufacturer isn't "store #2" and the product isn't being sold. The product is also given out in small samples, which Store #1 essentially has an unlimited stock. I still consider this exclusivity, because Store #2, Store #3 (aka, other radio outlets) don't get to sell the product.

[McPhallus]

You do make a good point about this forum's capacity to be incredibly nasty (not just to guests but among members), but there's an inherent contradiction in telling him not to read this forum by posting a message here.

Art's last post on here indicates to me that he is very good at filtering the garbage from the valuable feedback, and there is value to many of the comments made here.

Art, I'm the guy with the wife from Cebu.  Art, I see how the people in this thread act like apes and insult each other and get off on misery.  Art, don't read this forum, this site, you're better off ignoring it.  Yes, I too am upset by your choice, but I don't know everything that happened and I know you do care about your listeners and that you are a good family man.  Art, you don't need to come here, and you're better off not coming and reading, it will just make your crazy and miserable.  I've learned from my long time online (I was using internet before most the the "people" here even knew what it was), even on usenet and IRC men were brutes, they enjoy this sort of thing, it's a very sad reality, a sad commentary on the state of the human race, but it's the same behavior that has led to wars, men swinging their penises at each other.  Thankfully, you don't see women doing that here.

Art, however you do it, PLEASE come back to broadcasting.  God bless.

[shell88]

Art is a classic quitter...I love him too but he is the one that left.

What the fuck good is that attitude. Either you want him back or you don't. If your going to sit there and do nothing, than at least keep your negativity to yourself or move to the art bell sucks thread. 

[DanTSX]

Guys,

SiriusXM's incentive in all this was to get people to sign up by contracting a host with an audience already in-place.

Anything that isn't directly involved in winning subscriptions, is hurting SiriusXM's investment.

Sirius is in the business of sattelite radio.  Not streaming radio.  The steaming is there as a value added feature and as a contingency of sorts.  It's not their primary distribution method or product. They do the same thing with actual terrestrial transmitters in dense urban areas that have limited LOS (line of sight) to the satts overhead .  In cities you often have SiriusXM transmitter/repeaters because the satt signal cannot reach cars driving down the avenue of the Americas in NYC.

Is this really that hard to understand?

[TheGrimCreeper1]

This discussion has regressed into a bunch of nuts and trolls. (/obvious)

Ah, another enlightened individual who places themselves above "the savages" who dare question Art's integrity. We should all just blindly follow Art and kiss his ring because of all the great C2C memories we have. Art may or may not have taken this stand for his fans, but either way, he's off the air again with a flicker of hope he may return. This is basically the same place we were when I joined CoastGab.

I've been an XM subscriber off and on for over five years. Ever since I can remember, their streaming service has experienced dropouts and data connection lost errors. To think Art is going to strongarm  Sirius XM into changing their business model is laughable. Had this been his original intent, maybe he should have found a terrestrial radio station to pick up his show where free online streaming would be possible. But who will have him now that he's made another knee-jerk exit from a program? Justified or not, Art has a reputation of being a serial retire-er.

[DontFearTheReaper]

Yawn.
I think we get your point.
Move on already.

Valid, as long as you feel the same way about people saying that free streaming will be some big financial windfall for SiriusXM.

[gbneely]

I think this doesn't model the situation properly.

Store #1 signed up an exclusive distribution deal over a product.
The manufacturer said, "OK, but we also want to give out samples during very limited hours!"

The manufacturer isn't "store #2" and the product isn't being sold. The product is also given out in small samples, which Store #1 essentially has an unlimited stock. I still consider this exclusivity, because Store #2, Store #3 (aka, other radio outlets) don't get to sell the product.

I think the point is nobody is going to sell much of the product if it's easily available for free somewhere. Sirius brought Art on to drive numbers. If we can all go to Art's website and listen for free, why bother with Sirius. I can imagine how pissed they are by these shenanigans and would probably rather wash their hands of the situation. If I'm management, I see Art as someone who will always demand more at this point. He started a mere six weeks ago and look at the chaos. Unless his numbers were huge and subscriptions were up significantly because of him, there is no reason for them to play ball. They hold the hammer, while Art has set himself up as the nail.

[shell88]

Art Bell is the proper person to contact. He was under contract to do the show and he quit. Whatever his reasons, this is on him. I've let my feelings be known and I'm pretty sure Art has read them. I want him back on the air, but I don't see this as being the fault of Sirius.

We really don't have access to any of that private contract Art signed with them.  Art said he loves radio and wants to do a show. He has seen all the reactions here. Really people writing can have a profound effect on company decisions if your direct, succinct, polite, and to the point.   
People who complain and don't do a thing about what they are complaining about waste everybody's time and energy -  not to mention drain it.
Negativity SUCKS -worse than George Noory -and that's pretty bad.     

[dan7800]

Ah, another enlightened individual who places themselves above "the savages" who dare question Art's integrity. We should all just blindly follow Art and kiss his ring because of all the great C2C memories we have. Art may or may not have taken this stand for his fans, but either way, he's off the air again with a flicker of hope he may return. This is basically the same place we were when I joined CoastGab.

I've been an XM subscriber off and on for over five years. Ever since I can remember, their streaming service has experienced dropouts and data connection lost errors. To think Art is going to strongarm  Sirius XM into changing their business model is laughable. Had this been his original intent, maybe he should have found a terrestrial radio station to pick up his show where free online streaming would be possible. But who will have him now that he's made another knee-jerk exit from a program? Justified or not, Art has a reputation of being a serial retire-er.

I've had my fair share of negative things to say about Art. The people who I am placing myself above are all the people who are calling each other names.

[Shawnee]

What the fuck good is that attitude. Either you want him back or you don't. If your going to sit there and do nothing, than at least keep your negativity to yourself or move to the art bell sucks thread.

Negative?  Art left...it was his choice...his doing...Wake up and come back to reality.  You should try putting this energy into something that you can benefit from.

[DontFearTheReaper]

I think this doesn't model the situation properly.

Store #1 signed up an exclusive distribution deal over a product.
The manufacturer said, "OK, but we also want to give out samples during very limited hours!"

The manufacturer isn't "store #2" and the product isn't being sold. The product is also given out in small samples, which Store #1 essentially has an unlimited stock. I still consider this exclusivity, because Store #2, Store #3 (aka, other radio outlets) don't get to sell the product.

Exclusivity means that you are the only one selling a product. The reason companies want exclusivity is so they are the only (legal) avenue for fans/consumers to get said product. SiriusXM spent a certain amount of money on the advertising and marketing of Dark Matter on the contractual assumption that they would be the only legal place in town to hear Art.

Art is not proposing a free trial. He is proposing at least one year of free streaming. Given the events of the past week, I think it's fair to assume that he would tell Sirius at the end of that year to continue the free stream "or else."

If the streaming issues are truly the issue here, the only "fair" fix for both sides would be an ArtBell.com live stream that could be accessed by entering your SiriusXM Online account username and password. Keep that stream going until SiriusXM fixes their stream to Art's satisfaction, and then close it.

If Art had suggested that, I can't imagine anyone thinking it was unreasonable.

[willnodoubt]

YOU'RE ALL MAD AT THE WRONG SIDE HERE GUYS.

Don't you see what you're doing here?  You're alienating (no pun) the ONE guy you're here to support.

He came back.  That's what you (and I) all wanted.  He did it with the best intentions of making this work out.  For example: he chose to do 4 hours instead of his contractual 3 hours.

Sure it would have been a difficult road to win back his listener base even on a level playing field,  but of all the people in the world that COULD (and still CAN) do it, Art Bell can.

However, a level playing field it was not as there was the Sirius "pay-wall" to contend with.  Knowing the "pay-wall" exists, Art still made the deal with the expectation there would be no further obstacles or (might I add ridiculous) hiccups in the service.  Guess what?  There WERE hiccups with the service.   Some of you say you had no issues; but I certainly did and I'm a techie guy.  It took me 3 separate mobile devices and 2 desktop (and 2 hours) just to be able to listen to one particular episode live (I forget which one in particular).  I just couldn't get the stream to function properly --- it would play for a while then just completely stop.   Apparently, these are long term problems Sirius has had if you search for it.   Art didn't expect that, nor did we.   Frankly, to have such a large and powerful company put out a total piece of garbage mobile app is beyond me.  You can't even locate the channel by entering a channel number!   There were so many obstacles to an smooth and expected listening experience;  as Art eluded to --- Why would people pay their hard earned money for such lousy service?  Yes, I said LOUSY...  Satellites in orbit, amazing technology if you really consider it all SURE,  but all Art and the rest of us expected was a decent mobile/desktop app and decent streaming connectivity.  Don't anyone out there say decent streaming is next to impossible;  I know a handful of other broadcasters that can do it just fine.

You guys sure do give the guy you're all here for an interesting and unexpected response to this situation.   At this point HE NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT, not angry emotionally hateful insensitive comments.  You all need to realize who you're dealing with here.  To do what Art Bell does requires to be a master of his art form.   Who else has been able to step up and do it?  Many would say NOBODY (I am one of the many).   As Art mentioned things have to be "right" --- and they just weren't.  He's taking a stand for you guys.  If his mind is not in it, the show will suffer.   Again, Sirius is to blame here and they CAN make it right if they choose to.  Art's request is NOT out of line.

You all need to be careful with your comments that you don't give Art pause to just want to throw in the towel.  With the kind of response I've read in here --- it's quite frankly shameful to say some of these things to anyone but, to Art Bell?  Come on.   What some of you have said has got to hurt; if just a little.

***** So SUPPORT instead of detract from what Art Bell attempted to do.   Make your voice known to Sirius. *****

The free streaming would grow the user base to re-attract the old listeners and bring in a new generation.  Riding that fully enhanced listener base, it doesn't take a genius to realize after the 12 months point when the free streaming is gone the Sirius sign up rate and retention rate would be much higher than the situation is now.  Even if the type of technical glitches and badly designed mobile app we are experiencing *today* happened at the end of 12 months;  I would say there is a higher chance of weathering the storm at that point.   I don't say that to give Sirius a pass on their mobile app and streaming --- they need to fix their stuff regardless.   I'm saying this to make a point --- Art's listening base was just coming back --- Sirius' issues made an already precarious situation topple over.

YOU have the power to make Sirius reconsider their stance.   Look guys... it's either you realize what's really going on here and address your concerns appropriately or potentially lose Art Bell.  Again, at the MOMENT he is willing to come back.  Don't jeopardize that (current) willingness and give him pause to not even want to resume broadcasting.

Regarding your recent purchase: I get it you bought a XM radio and a subscription etc.   Don't forget, Art put a lot of time and attention into this endeavor as well.   It's Sirus you need to focus your attention on.   CALL, WRITE AND PRESSURE them to make this situation right.  They are the ones that failed here.  It takes a delicate balance of having Art's mind on his artform and the technical side from Sirius must be there to pull this off --- and the tech side (the relatively easy part) clearly wasn't there.   Even if the technical glitches caused 10% to abandon ship --- that's 10% too many.    One man vs. an entire corporation;  take a step back and think about who has the resources to fix this situation and then prosper by supporting the king of late-night talk radio once again.   Did Sirius not look at his broadcast numbers from the past?   At some point Art Bell will have his critical mass point and can commence being the king of late night airwaves --- but, that will be close to impossible with technical glitches and rocky start Sirius has caused --- this needs to be remedied QUICKLY.

So I say again please, sit back and think about what you're saying before potentially giving Art pause to think about never returning --- ever (again) --- man.. with some of the comments here I'd hate to see how you treat your enemies based on the way you talk to Art Bell --- again, the man you're all here for.   

Maybe emotions got the best of you --- ***** hopefully Art considers all this turmoil and feedback as desperate emotional crying out to not lose him again ***** .   At this point HE IS WILLING TO COME BACK if Sirius can make things right.  Sirius severely undermined Art's ability to grow and prosper on this platform.  Being as close to a level playing field as others in this broadcasting arena is important.  Free AM talk radio it is not;  but at least the streaming paying customers should have had a pleasant listening experience without ridiculous technical glitches and a mobile app that's not like pulling teeth to make function (case in point:  ALLOW CHOOSING THE CHANNEL BY CHANNEL NUMBER) --- but, I digress as that enhancement to the mobile app is not the major issue here.   He came back in a good faith effort.

NOW HE NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT.

-Will no doubt.