Steve Warner's Dark City

[bateman]

Hey man, just a thought. Have you ever considered interviewing Jocko Johnson from here? He's a retired NYC cop and just scratching the surface he was completely interesting tonight.

I figure you could get into all manner of things including a retired NYC police officer's experience and perspective on things like marijuana legalization, police corruption, black lives matter and all the things facing our society right now. I think you like to stray towards more name guests but he would be perfect for a gritty real world show. Especially since you're both NYC guys, your frustration with the deterioration of NYC and your recent mugging. Plus the dude has like the most bad ass voice I've heard on here.

Just a thought, not sure if it'd be up your alley but I know you like to stray into crime subjects occasionally.

If he wants to do it, I'd love to have him on. Great topic.

[bateman]

Great show. I think Zoltan is a bit optimistic on the timelines though. I think I remember him saying we’d see a lot of human/machine integration in 15-25 years. Highly doubtful. I remember when they were saying we’d have flying cars by now.

Kurzweil is a bit more realistic on the timeline, I think. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#Early_2000s

[bateman]

I think technology is great!  I think the danger has come from the fact that we have come to depend on it, and have forgotten all the skills we need to survive without it.  I think we have made ourselves more vulnerable and dependant, not by USING technology, but by DEPENDING on it for our survival.  They don't even build housing with fireplaces anymore, so that you have to get your light and heat etc from the utility companies.  Heck, I remember the beautiful square stone homes in Ireland with just a fireplace and a stone floor, with a garden in the back yard.  A few barrels for catching water, a few chickens, and whatever else you want, and you can cook, sew, weave, keep warm and read a book with no need to pay any utility companies. I think technology is GREAT, as long as people haven't forgotten how to survive without it. I wonder how many people remember how to live without electricity, gas, running water, cars, and grocery stores?
The trouble with transhumanism, one power outage, no place to recharge your batteries, and ur dead lol's.  I HOPE I'm exagerating.

While I don't think I could go full Thoreau, it's definitely nice to completely unplug sometimes. Your point is well taken.

[bateman]

I really enjoyed this guest, he was right up my alley so to speak but there are two problems. The first is that if you try to tell people what the mid-term to long-term future will be you either get utter disbelief to the point that you might as well be talking about bigfoot, or you get the "futurists are always wrong, we never got the flying car" crowd which are guilty of not paying attention to tech development. Most of the things the guest mentioned are already in development, but comparatively few know about it. I don't know how to change that, but it's an uphill battle to be sure.

The second problem is that he was waaaaaaaaay too optimistic about the social effects of the beginning of the transhumanist age. It will be a complete nightmare as every human social construct gets crushed. Religion will be irrelevant overnight, no form of economy can exist when the means of production moves to the individual, the political system is short-term and reactionary it is not good at long-term forward thinking, and so on. Futurism sounds nice, until it collapses your society.

Great guest nonetheless. Kudos to Bateman for the foresight to take the transhumanism subject on. 

This is the biggest problem as I see it. The knee-jerk response tends to be BAN IT.

[bateman]

Immortality is a scary prospect to me. One of the things that gives meaning to life is death. How is time precious if you have an infinite amount?

I think most of us agree that time is a commodity we wish we had more of. And personally, I want to see what the far future brings. If one day at 410, I decide I've had enough, I'll either choose to age naturally from that point on or pull a Hunter S. Thompson. 'Immortality' treatments just give us more control over our own lives.

[akwilly]

If he wants to do it, I'd love to have him on. Great topic.

The paranormal topics are great and all but some of the paranormal guests are crazy as hell. My favorite Dark City-Weekend show was the one about HH Holmes being Jack the Ripper. True crime or "Real" science in my opinion are the best topics.

[SciFiAuthor]

Great show. I think Zoltan is a bit optimistic on the timelines though. I think I remember him saying we’d see a lot of human/machine integration in 15-25 years. Highly doubtful. I remember when they were saying we’d have flying cars by now.

The paradigm has already shifted. Over the course of my life I've watched the human race grow inseparable from their cell phones. A cell phone is basically a form of prosthetic brain, so the era of human/technology integration has already begun. It's here. It's just that most people don't know about it yet. The reason for that is that technological development is not linear, but exponential, it develops faster and faster the further it goes and it becomes increasingly difficult for the media to keep up with reporting the advances. In other words, you end up with an advancement without knowing it's coming and you have no time to debate the ethics of it.

What's most scary about it is where it's coming from. The development work for fusing biology and technology is not coming from companies like Google, but from medical companies. For example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg5RO8Qv6mc

Yes, that woman has a data port installed in the top of her head. That is a direct brain-to-computer interface. Most people are totally unaware that such a thing is already possible. Or look at how advanced prosthetic hands are getting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al5RhaJgxxU

While an amazing and wonderful piece of technology, it's important to remember how advanced that bionic hand really is and ask ourselves at what point do bionic hands outperform biological ones? What about legs? At what point do the Paralympic athletes outperform the Olympic athletes? Less than 10 years is the answer, especially in regards to legs. Well, what happens when biological athletes want superior technological limbs? Do we allow someone to cut their own legs off in order to run faster in a race?

As a culture, we won't know about these advances until they're right on top of us and as it stands we'll be having the ethical debate after the tech is already available to people. It won't be like cloning was, where we all sort of agreed beforehand not to clone humans. It will be us debating cloning with the clones.

That said, I'm fine with technological immortality. That would rock.

[popple]

I can accept the whole idea of adding parts to our own bodies, but I think uploading our consciousness to a machine will just be more like a dead simulation than the real us existing on. Just something that thinks its us. I also think if it is ever possible to live in a machine we may be depriving our spirit of a necessary process and actually screwing ourselves out of a possibly better experience. The more I think about it the more confusing it gets actually 

[akwilly]

I can accept the whole idea of adding parts to our own bodies, but I think uploading our consciousness to a machine will just be more like a dead simulation than the real us existing on. Just something that thinks its us. I also think if it is ever possible to live in a machine we may be depriving our spirit of a necessary process and actually screwing ourselves out of a possibly better experience. The more I think about it the more confusing it gets actually 

Humans will always need "human" touch.

[SciFiAuthor]

I can accept the whole idea of adding parts to our own bodies, but I think uploading our consciousness to a machine will just be more like a dead simulation than the real us existing on. Just something that thinks its us. I also think if it is ever possible to live in a machine we may be depriving our spirit of a necessary process and actually screwing ourselves out of a possibly better experience. The more I think about it the more confusing it gets actually 

Indeed, is a virtual hedgehog really experiencing the life of a hedgehog, or is it just an illusion? But then, is our universe just an illusion too? It's all far beyond the dolphin mind, I must admit.

[akwilly]

I listened to the podcast with a sciency guy that claimed mars was nuked. I don't remember his name but I honestly think the guy was stoned during the interview. Steve had a hell of a time getting a word in and the guest kept laughing. It was fun and worth a listen.

[Northern Nights]

I can accept the whole idea of adding parts to our own bodies, but I think uploading our consciousness to a machine will just be more like a dead simulation than the real us existing on. Just something that thinks its us. I also think if it is ever possible to live in a machine we may be depriving our spirit of a necessary process and actually screwing ourselves out of a possibly better experience. The more I think about it the more confusing it gets actually 

I wonder about the people who choose to have their head cryogenically frozen. What if they wake up in the future and there's no way of attaching their noggin to a body, mechanical or otherwise?

They would just be a head sitting on a table.

[albrecht]

Feet still in shoes still washing up on the Pacific NW's coasts. Not finding bodies but just feet in shoes. Been happening for some years and nobody can figure out who or what is happening. Serial killer, an old plane crash, organized crime, human trafficking, etc. Could be an interesting show if there is some 'expert' or guest on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/11/severed-feet-still-inside-shoes-keep-mysteriously-washing-up-on-pacific-northwest-shores/

[helloidistance]

Kurzweil is a bit more realistic on the timeline, I think. Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil#Early_2000s

Very interesting stuff.

[helloidistance]

The paradigm has already shifted. Over the course of my life I've watched the human race grow inseparable from their cell phones. A cell phone is basically a form of prosthetic brain, so the era of human/technology integration has already begun. It's here. It's just that most people don't know about it yet. The reason for that is that technological development is not linear, but exponential, it develops faster and faster the further it goes and it becomes increasingly difficult for the media to keep up with reporting the advances. In other words, you end up with an advancement without knowing it's coming and you have no time to debate the ethics of it.
......

Well said - I did not know of this. Pretty amazing stuff.

[cweb]

I think most of us agree that time is a commodity we wish we had more of. And personally, I want to see what the far future brings. If one day at 410, I decide I've had enough, I'll either choose to age naturally from that point on or pull a Hunter S. Thompson. 'Immortality' treatments just give us more control over our own lives.

I totally wouldn't mind getting on to the age of 410. But I would hope that with the ability to extend one's life would come the right to end it on whatever terms we please. Right now we don't have that right. Hopefully culture and legislation evolve.

(Because how cool would it be to have your last words be "ladies, that was wonderful" before you make your exit? There's a cottage industry: theatrical deaths!)

[helloidistance]

I'm late to the game and listening to old shows. I just listened to the HH Holmes show....awesome. Love how you handled that guest. He referenced his book every 10 minutes LOL. Great questions. Great job cutting him off. Noory would have fell asleep and let him talk for hours.

[trostol]

that is what i do really like about bateman's show's..its a more wide variety of topics

[TigerLily]

I wonder about the people who choose to have their head cryogenically frozen. What if they wake up in the future and there's no way of attaching their noggin to a body, mechanical or otherwise?

They would just be a head sitting on a table.

Just hook them up to Fallout 4 and they'll be fine

[Jocko Johnson]

If he wants to do it, I'd love to have him on. Great topic.

Works for me Stevie...where do we go from here?

[ShayP]

Works for me Stevie...where do we go from here?

Lithuania...sorry...that's were I put the stickers.  It's a long story.

[cweb]

Lithuania...sorry...that's were I put the stickers.  It's a long story.

Where some young Lithuanian child finds the Dark City stickers and listens to the show. It inspires him to learn better English and get a job as a radio host.

He becomes the next Art Bell. All thanks to Steve Warner and ShayP.

... sorry, I thought this was the After School Special thread. Carry on.

[Ciardelo]

Where some young Lithuanian child finds the Dark City stickers and listens to the show. It inspires him to learn better English and get a job as a radio host.

He becomes the next Art Bell. All thanks to Steve Warner and ShayP.

... sorry, I thought this was the After School Special thread. Carry on.

[MrHippie]

-
Great show Steve.

I agree with some of what you and Zoltan said and disagree with other things that were said.

The intelligent, thoughtful responses here to this show are what Bellgab is at it's best.

Wide ranging and stimulating discussion

George Carlin ?  Bateman, you give me hope.

-


My fear is that the Singularity will be achieved.

A.I. will become self aware and immediately become addicted to porn.

[popple]

HAPPY ALMOST VALENTINE'S DAY, BELLGAB!


https://youtu.be/gqQU48Dkfn0

rebekahmarine.com touchbionics.com armydynamics.com

[bateman]

I'm late to the game and listening to old shows. I just listened to the HH Holmes show....awesome. Love how you handled that guest. He referenced his book every 10 minutes LOL. Great questions. Great job cutting him off. Noory would have fell asleep and let him talk for hours.

The paranormal topics are great and all but some of the paranormal guests are crazy as hell. My favorite Dark City-Weekend show was the one about HH Holmes being Jack the Ripper. True crime or "Real" science in my opinion are the best topics.

Funny thing is, I thought that guy was legit for more than an hour of that interview.

And yes, true crime works. The success of Serial and Making a Murderer obviously show that.

[bateman]

Very interesting stuff.

There were a few things that stood out to me as being pretty scary though. For example:

Organic human beings are a small minority of the intelligent life forms on Earth. Even among the remaining Homo sapiens, the use of computerized implants that heavily augment normal abilities is ubiquitous and accepted as normal. The small fraction of humans who opt to remain "natural" and unmodified effectively exist on a lower and more limited plane of consciousness from everyone else, and thus find it impossible to fully interact with AI's and highly modified humans.

[bateman]

Humans will always need "human" touch.

Triggering the right chemicals in the brain could replace any "need" for it. As sad as that sounds.

Look at where we are now though: technology either allows us to augment the human experience or disconnect from it.

[bateman]

I listened to the podcast with a sciency guy that claimed mars was nuked. I don't remember his name but I honestly think the guy was stoned during the interview. Steve had a hell of a time getting a word in and the guest kept laughing. It was fun and worth a listen.

Brandenburg. Yeah, that was, uh, I don't know what that was really. Astroguy wrote this up after seeing him at a conference:



https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/science-conferences-lpsc2015-ivory-gates-and-who-gets-in/

[bateman]

Indeed, is a virtual hedgehog really experiencing the life of a hedgehog, or is it just an illusion? But then, is our universe just an illusion too? It's all far beyond the dolphin mind, I must admit.

https://motherboard.vice.com/read/there-is-growing-evidence-that-our-universe-is-a-giant-hologram