Steve Warner's Dark City

[cweb]

Just finished listening to the James Fox interview. He was pushing his doc a lot, but definitely gave some interesting information. I will probably check out 701. Hope James doesn't go too far on the "cinematic recreation" of the stories. A lot of times those things get cheesy and hurt the material. But I liked Out Of The Blue, so I'll give James a chance on this.

Another enjoyable Dark Weekend episode! Good discussion, good topic, and a spotless production job!

[midnight]

I'm not kidding, when I hear the "Connection Established" I begin to get goosebumps.  By far my favorite paranormal show since Art Bell. 

[ziznak]

dark weekend's intro music and the neo sample give me a similar feeling to the anticipation I had for Art's shows.  Way back when... and way back 6 or so months ago as well.

[TheMan WhoFell ToEarth]

dark weekend's intro music and the neo sample give me a similar feeling to the anticipation I had for Art's shows.  Way back when... and way back 6 or so months ago as well.

It's only been 5 

[Gemstone]

I'm not kidding, when I hear the "Connection Established" I begin to get goosebumps.  By far my favorite paranormal show since Art Bell.

I get them too!

[HorrorRetro]

I get them too!

Yep!  It's exciting to finally have a show I look forward to on Sunday nights.  It's just like the old Dreamland days.

[Miranda]

I get them too!

Same here! The intro really sets the tone and builds anticipation for the show, then once it starts, it really takes off.  Definitely my favorite.  Great host, interesting subjects and guests, the interviews move along at a nice pace. Add in the great bumper music and Mummer's Dance to close the show, and the whole thing is fantastic from beginning to end. It doesn't even have to be all paranormal, either. I really enjoyed the Nick Sutton show and have listened to it several times.

[Ms. C]

James Fox was good guest and you mentioned it was last minute ... the two of you definitely had a good chemistry!

As usual, I thoroughly enjoyed the show.

    :

[bateman]

All of you would probably appreciate this. FASCINATING talk by an artist who digs deep, deep into black projects. Front companies, FAA records, NRO documents.. etc. etc. How this guy hasn't gotten himself into trouble so far, I have no idea.


http://youtu.be/j56s46e97Lo

Long, but well worth the watch, and it's actually pretty hilarious. "Hey guys, stop putting operational details into the patches. They're on to us."

[albrecht]

All of you would probably appreciate this. FASCINATING talk by an artist who digs deep, deep into black projects. Front companies, FAA records, NRO documents.. etc. etc. How this guy hasn't gotten himself into trouble so far, I have no idea.


http://youtu.be/j56s46e97Lo

Long, but well worth the watch, and it's actually pretty hilarious. "Hey guys, stop putting operational details into the patches. They're on to us."

excellent, same guy that wrote a few books a while back that were very interesting. "Blankspots on the Map" etc. Not as good as Bamford's work for decades (Puzzle Palace, etc) but a close second. Only because a decade or so later. It amazes me how the NSA stuff is "now" a controversy when it was known, and written about! Good upload. Would love to see him interviewed on DW. And also Bamford. Or, as always, Col. Aquino (I know I'm somewhat obsessed with the military-satan-cult thing because so many weird stories out there and court cases out there at Presidio etc.)

Another good one would be the guy (a lawyer) who runs cryptome.org. The site before wikileaks and I still think better. I think Alex Jones did interview him some years ago and it was quite funny because it didn't go quite Alex's way and the guy kept saying things like "don't believe anything", "don't trust me", etc and didn't submit to his agenda or theory but just talked about the information and legal trouble. I forget tho. Would be nice to hear from that guy again with a good interviewer and not a ranter (though I do like ranters sometimes!) Keep up the good work!

[bateman]

Just finished listening to the James Fox interview. He was pushing his doc a lot, but definitely gave some interesting information. I will probably check out 701. Hope James doesn't go too far on the "cinematic recreation" of the stories. A lot of times those things get cheesy and hurt the material. But I liked Out Of The Blue, so I'll give James a chance on this.

Another enjoyable Dark Weekend episode! Good discussion, good topic, and a spotless production job!

Yeah, he's put so much work into it though, I can't blame him for wanting to talk about it a lot. He was a fun to talk to. And thank yeeewww for the compliment(s).

I'm not kidding, when I hear the "Connection Established" I begin to get goosebumps.  By far my favorite paranormal show since Art Bell. 

dark weekend's intro music and the neo sample give me a similar feeling to the anticipation I had for Art's shows.  Way back when... and way back 6 or so months ago as well.

This is awesome.

I get them too!

Same here! The intro really sets the tone and builds anticipation for the show, then once it starts, it really takes off.  Definitely my favorite.  Great host, interesting subjects and guests, the interviews move along at a nice pace. Add in the great bumper music and Mummer's Dance to close the show, and the whole thing is fantastic from beginning to end. It doesn't even have to be all paranormal, either. I really enjoyed the Nick Sutton show and have listened to it several times.

Awesome. I've been obsessive about that intro, I still think I need to tweak the levels here and there, and maybe cut it down a tiny bit, but I'm glad it's having the intended effect. Ross Mitchell's voice in there sure doesn't hurt. 

[albrecht]

If I knew how I would get the intro as my ringtone. Luckily, I don't know how (don't tell me forum because it would probably set people off when I'm in public). But, seriously, it rivals some of the best, and I mean best, from such old programs like the Creaking Door, The Shadow, etc and, of course, old C2C and old Dreamland, broadcasts.  I really like the idea of "tuning it in" n bringing in the signal. Brings back memories and awesomeness. Great job!
ps: I didn't like how that Trevor Paglen youtube vid ended so weirdly about no questions. You NEED to get him on your show. And make it a longer one. Would be epic and awesome. (I wonder, also the weird need these groups need to make patches and mottos to include arcane and occult symbolism.)

[Uncle Duke]

All of you would probably appreciate this. FASCINATING talk by an artist who digs deep, deep into black projects. Front companies, FAA records, NRO documents.. etc. etc. How this guy hasn't gotten himself into trouble so far, I have no idea.


http://youtu.be/j56s46e97Lo

Long, but well worth the watch, and it's actually pretty hilarious. "Hey guys, stop putting operational details into the patches. They're on to us."

*round of applause*

I don't agree with Paglen's politics, but hat's off to the guy.  He has done his homework and is a good brief.  A few comments:

1)  As the old saying goes, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."  Ironically, I have used his approach to argue against some of the goofier conspiracy theories to those who claim to know what "they" are doing but have no clue what it would take for "them" to do it.  Btw, by coincedence one of the names on his list of PO Box "ghosts" was the same as a high school classmate.

2) He mentions the airport at Shannon, Ireland, as a staging point from/to the US for "ghost" flights.  Shannon is one of the best airports in the world for "plane spotting" simply due to its location as the first/last airport in Europe for flights from/to North America.  I've spent many hours in the terminal at Shannon over the past 30 years, and have seen some very odd aircraft with equally odd makings.  You also see a lot of military aircraft at Shannon as well since as a neutral nation, Ireland does not allow foreign military a/c to stage through their main military airfield at Baldonnel.

3) Got the biggest chuckle with Paglen's discussion of patches.  I actually have one of the "Don't Ask...NOYFB" patches he showed.  It's not real, btw.  "Patchology" is something of an art in military circles.  Designing patches for new units is usually assigned to young 2Lts who are hip to the current culture and are wizards at computer graphics.  I actually sat through a briefing where a young 2Lt tried to explain a unit patch concept with hip-hop references to a GO whose idea of cool was "ABBA".  Back to the drawing board!

One thing I think Paglen missed was looking at unofficial going away awards classified units give to their people.  The concept of the "I love me wall" is common in the military, and when an individual leaves a unit it is common to present something representing that assignment that can be displayed.  My favorite was such an award a senior NCO I worked with back in the mid 80s had at his work station.  It was a photo of just clouds, with an engraved plate that said simply, "(Name)...in recognition for outstanding contributions to a significant event."

[bateman]

excellent, same guy that wrote a few books a while back that were very interesting. "Blankspots on the Map" etc. Not as good as Bamford's work for decades (Puzzle Palace, etc) but a close second. Only because a decade or so later. It amazes me how the NSA stuff is "now" a controversy when it was known, and written about! Good upload. Would love to see him interviewed on DW. And also Bamford. Or, as always, Col. Aquino (I know I'm somewhat obsessed with the military-satan-cult thing because so many weird stories out there and court cases out there at Presidio etc.)

Another good one would be the guy (a lawyer) who runs cryptome.org. The site before wikileaks and I still think better. I think Alex Jones did interview him some years ago and it was quite funny because it didn't go quite Alex's way and the guy kept saying things like "don't believe anything", "don't trust me", etc and didn't submit to his agenda or theory but just talked about the information and legal trouble. I forget tho. Would be nice to hear from that guy again with a good interviewer and not a ranter (though I do like ranters sometimes!) Keep up the good work!

All of those guys would be great, though they can be hard to pin down. Aquino just scares the crap out of me.


http://www.markdice.com/documents/MindWar_co_authored_by_Michael%20Aquino.pdf

If I knew how I would get the intro as my ringtone. Luckily, I don't know how (don't tell me forum because it would probably set people off when I'm in public). But, seriously, it rivals some of the best, and I mean best, from such old programs like the Creaking Door, The Shadow, etc and, of course, old C2C and old Dreamland, broadcasts.  I really like the idea of "tuning it in" n bringing in the signal. Brings back memories and awesomeness. Great job!

Another intro fan. Thank yeeww. 

[bateman]

*round of applause*

I don't agree with Paglen's politics, but hat's off to the guy.  He has done his homework and is a good brief.  A few comments:

1)  As the old saying goes, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."  Ironically, I have used his approach to argue against some of the goofier conspiracy theories to those who claim to know what "they" are doing but have no clue what it would take for "them" to do it.  Btw, by coincedence one of the names on his list of PO Box "ghosts" was the same as a high school classmate.

That's what's so brilliant about what he does: looking for the nuts & bolts.. Finds a bolt here, a nut there, and comes up with a rough idea of what the machine looks like.

[Uncle Duke]

That's what's so brilliant about what he does: looking for the nuts & bolts.. Finds a bolt here, a nut there, and comes up with a rough idea of what the machine looks like.

Agreed.  He would have made a fine intel analyst. 

[bateman]

Leslie Kean will be my guest tonight. Taking questions for the next couple of hours.

[George Drooly]

Still laughing to myself at Bateman's "Let's say it was - fuck it - Lisa Lyon" line in the recent GabCast

[UnscreenedCaller]

Leslie Kean will be my guest tonight. Taking questions for the next couple of hours.

I can't wait for this. She's one of my favorites. She does her research, is thorough and has credible sources in the military. Sounds like a great show in the offing. I look forward to your show every weekend, Steve. Just keeps getting better and better.

[Mind Flayer Monk]

That's what's so brilliant about what he does: looking for the nuts & bolts.. Finds a bolt here, a nut there, and comes up with a rough idea of what the machine looks like.

"Blankspots on the Map" etc. Not as good as Bamford's work for decades (Puzzle Palace, etc) but a close second.

Very interesting. The dead giveaway for me has always been:
1. small rural town with lots of hotels
2. and no vacancy
3. an unusual number of road closures

There was a guy a few years ago that deduced all of the strategic locations in the US by I think it was highway construction records.

As a side note, has anyone been to Lancaster? Its in an area that should be poor but the roads are immaculate and there is an area of town that is far nicer than it should be.

My dad says the best way to spot military bases is to look for golf courses.

[Uncle Duke]

Very interesting. The dead giveaway for me has always been:
1. small rural town with lots of hotels
2. and no vacancy
3. an unusual number of road closures

There was a guy a few years ago that deduced all of the strategic locations in the US by I think it was highway construction records.

As a side note, has anyone been to Lancaster?  Its in an area that should be poor but the roads are immaculate and there is an area of town that is far nicer than it should be.

My dad says the best way to spot military bases is to look for golf courses.

If you mean Lancaster, CA, yes been there many times.   Lancaster is the the town closest to the south gate of Edwards AFB.  It's a long ways from that gate until you get to the base proper, maybe 15 miles.  Towns around military bases, regardless how remote, usually have good infrastructure to facilitate the military's mission.   Towns like Altus, OK, and Del Rio, TX are the same way.  Visit similar size towns in those regions and they are pretty grim comparatively.

[aldousburbank]

*round of applause*

I don't agree with Paglen's politics, but hat's off to the guy.  He has done his homework and is a good brief.  A few comments:

1)  As the old saying goes, "Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."  Ironically, I have used his approach to argue against some of the goofier conspiracy theories to those who claim to know what "they" are doing but have no clue what it would take for "them" to do it.  Btw, by coincedence one of the names on his list of PO Box "ghosts" was the same as a high school classmate.

2) He mentions the airport at Shannon, Ireland, as a staging point from/to the US for "ghost" flights.  Shannon is one of the best airports in the world for "plane spotting" simply due to its location as the first/last airport in Europe for flights from/to North America.  I've spent many hours in the terminal at Shannon over the past 30 years, and have seen some very odd aircraft with equally odd makings.  You also see a lot of military aircraft at Shannon as well since as a neutral nation, Ireland does not allow foreign military a/c to stage through their main military airfield at Baldonnel.

3) Got the biggest chuckle with Paglen's discussion of patches.  I actually have one of the "Don't Ask...NOYFB" patches he showed.  It's not real, btw.  "Patchology" is something of an art in military circles.  Designing patches for new units is usually assigned to young 2Lts who are hip to the current culture and are wizards at computer graphics.  I actually sat through a briefing where a young 2Lt tried to explain a unit patch concept with hip-hop references to a GO whose idea of cool was "ABBA".  Back to the drawing board!

One thing I think Paglen missed was looking at unofficial going away awards classified units give to their people.  The concept of the "I love me wall" is common in the military, and when an individual leaves a unit it is common to present something representing that assignment that can be displayed.  My favorite was such an award a senior NCO I worked with back in the mid 80s had at his work station.  It was a photo of just clouds, with an engraved plate that said simply, "(Name)...in recognition for outstanding contributions to a significant event."

Nice post Duke.

[bateman]

I can't wait for this. She's one of my favorites. She does her research, is thorough and has credible sources in the military. Sounds like a great show in the offing. I look forward to your show every weekend, Steve. Just keeps getting better and better.

She was great. Open minded, but not willing to go down wacko road.

I look forward to your show every weekend, Steve. Just keeps getting better and better.

Thank yeeewww. As I've said in the past, there are always things I like, and things I want to improve or tweak, but the fact that everyone's been so receptive has been really encouraging.

[wr250]

She was great. Open minded, but not willing to go down wacko road.

Thank yeeewww. As I've said in the past, there are always things I like, and things I want to improve or tweak, but the fact that everyone's been so receptive has been really encouraging.

so when you going live ?, dont need to take calls , email, forum questions would work, so you could filter us bellgabbers out. you could even take faxes

[Uncle Duke]

Leslie Kean will be my guest tonight. Taking questions for the next couple of hours.

Two professionals at the top of their game, great job Steve.

As much as I respect Ms. Kean, I think she showed naivete with her talk of pushing for a DoD office for UFO investigation.  The US military has been in a "do more with less" mode for some time, our forces shrink but our committments do not.  Just this past week we saw even deeper proposed cuts.  We already know the DoD thinks UFO investigations are unwarranted (at least officially), and now she wants already thinly stretched assets to cover UFOs?  You think such an assignment would be seen as a career enhancer?  No.  So who would be assigned to such a billet?  Not the "best and brightest" to be sure. 

In DoD speak, additional duties without additional assets is known as responsibilites "taken out of hide."  From personal experience, I can tell you when such situations come up, established organizations are forced to give up people.  Who do you think I give up?  It was a no-brainer, my least capable people were put up for reassignment. Same would happen here, the organization  would be stafffed with third teamers, in all probabilty led by a ROAD (retired on active duty) Lt Col (O-5/GS-13) biding time until retirement.  Is that what Ms Kean wants?  How would that be any different than Blue Book?  Oh, and by the way, I remember reading no Blue Book commander was promoted.

I'm not defending the system, I'm simply explaining how/why it works. 

[bateman]

so when you going live ?, dont need to take calls , email, forum questions would work, so you could filter us bellgabbers out. you could even take faxes

I wouldn't want to filter you out, you guys are my "P1s" in radio speak. 

As far as going live.. I'm just taking it one step at a time.

[bateman]

Two professionals at the top of their game, great job Steve.

As much as I respect Ms. Kean, I think she showed naivete with her talk of pushing for a DoD office for UFO investigation.  The US military has been in a "do more with less" mode for some time, our forces shrink but our committments do not.  Just this past week we saw even deeper proposed cuts.  We already know the DoD thinks UFO investigations are unwarranted (at least officially), and now she wants already thinly stretched assets to cover UFOs?  You think such an assignment would be seen as a career enhancer?  No.  So who would be assigned to such a billet?  Not the "best and brightest" to be sure. 

In DoD speak, additional duties without additional assets is known as responsibilites "taken out of hide."  From personal experience, I can tell you when such situations come up, established organizations are forced to give up people.  Who do you think I give up?  It was a no-brainer, my least capable people were put up for reassignment. Same would happen here, the organization  would be stafffed with third teamers, in all probabilty led by a ROAD (retired on active duty) Lt Col (O-5/GS-13) biding time until retirement.  Is that what Ms Kean wants?  How would that be any different than Blue Book?  Oh, and by the way, I remember reading no Blue Book commander was promoted.

I'm not defending the system, I'm simply explaining how/why it works. 

Thank yew, sir. Yeah, I agree that any new committee would probably end up being half-assed or a(nother) whitewash.

[b_dubb]

If you mean Lancaster, CA, yes been there many times.   Lancaster is the the town closest to the south gate of Edwards AFB.  It's a long ways from that gate until you get to the base proper, maybe 15 miles.  Towns around military bases, regardless how remote, usually have good infrastructure to facilitate the military's mission.   Towns like Altus, OK, and Del Rio, TX are the same way.  Visit similar size towns in those regions and they are pretty grim comparatively.

Uhhh okay Duke ... I'm just wondering ... where's the Wright-Patt version of Lancaster, CA?  Oakwood? Yellow Springs?  Beavercreek?  Sure as heck aint' Dayton.

[Uncle Duke]

Uhhh okay Duke ... I'm just wondering ... where's the Wright-Patt version of Lancaster, CA?  Oakwood? Yellow Springs?  Beavercreek?  Sure as heck aint' Dayton.

Fairborn and Beavercreek primarily, Riverside, Dayton and Huber to a lesser extent.  Both cities work well with the WPAFB community, including having reciprocal agreements for law enforcement/fire/haz mat/civil engineering services, and both cities support the base to facilitate events like the USAF Marathon, the Tattoo, etc.  Yellow Springs and Oakwood are not close enough to WPAFB to work all that effectively together, although I doubt YS or WPAFB would bend over backwards to help one another even if they were.

Were you in Dayton back in the mid 90s when the "Dayton Peace Accords" for Bosnia were signed?
The city of Fairborn was really pissed Dayton got title credit for those accords.

[b_dubb]

Fairborn and Beavercreek primarily, Riverside, Dayton and Huber to a lesser extent.  Both cities work well with the WPAFB community, including having reciprocal agreements for law enforcement/fire/haz mat/civil engineering services, and both cities support the base to facilitate events like the USAF Marathon, the Tattoo, etc.  Yellow Springs and Oakwood are not close enough to WPAFB to work all that effectively together, although I doubt YS or WPAFB would bend over backwards to help one another even if they were.

Were you in Dayton back in the mid 90s when the "Dayton Peace Accords" for Bosnia were signed?
The city of Fairborn was really pissed Dayton got title credit for those accords.

I believe I was in college at BGSU when that was signed.  Beavercreek is probably the nicest of all areas mentioned but it isn't a city.  Suburb with Mall is more like it.  Riverside and Huber Heights are basically white ghettos.  Huber being a community of truck drivers and their quasi-feral children.   Huber used to be a nice little working class community but then the job base in the Dayton area collapsed.  And most everything went to shit.