Syria: The Next Stop?

[b_dubb]

That's right, we wouldn't.  We would know that 53% of us would receive the best he had to give, until his magical underpants guided us all to Kolob, with our dogs strapped to the roof of our Godly spaceships.  Once there, we would be greeted by binders full of women, that we might marry one or more of them.  We would have many offspring, because contraception of any sort would be almost impossible to procur - and don't even think about abortion, that's a non-starter. We would name these many children in fine Republican tradition - names like Trig, Hat, Boot, Mitzy, Tad, Biff, Muffler, Glove.  For a while, we would welcome others to Kolob, but then we would build a giant space wall to keep others out, and demonize the ones we had previously welcomed, threatening to eject them (or better yet, encouraging them to eject themselves!) into the vacuum of space if they didn't start acting (and looking) more like us.

Yep, knew what we had in that great man for sure.

^^^^ epic

I've heard a rumor that Warren Buffet is invested in a company that wants to build an oil pipeline across Syria to deliver Iraqi oil directly to the Mediterranean.
No blood for oil!!!

this is the closest anyone's come yet to asking the really important question.  that being ... how does Syria factor into a US interests.  of course it's all oil related. 

does anyone think Romney would be doing a better job?  every decision that guy would've made as President would've started and stopped with analysis on how it might affect his stock portfolio

[NowhereInTime]

Who the fuck are you, Valerie Jarrett?

Yes. 

[NowhereInTime]

I do. The Russians (generally speaking, those that hold power)  are evil, back-stabbing, vile pigs. And trust me, that`s being generous.


Oops! Did I just say that? Why, yes, I believe I DID.

Dead on right, especially with Putin.  Putin is not Boris or Mikhail, two guys we did business with; we need Dmitri Medvedev-types who are rationalists (though he tows Putin's line) to worry more about Russia's future than personal power.

[NowhereInTime]

Hahaha... yeah, I think it's next to a Starbucks and across the street from that AWESOME shoe store.  'O is like so cool cause he goes on TV with Dave and sings real good, too,

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  I can live with PB calling him "corrupt" and Sardondi calling him a "thug" but implying he's pals with Dave Norriee is a RED LINE! 

[PB the Deplorable]

... does anyone think Romney would be doing a better job?...

I think he' be pretty average and bumble along.  Which is orders of magnitude better than anything out of the White House, Congress, or Senate right now.

...  every decision that guy would've made as President would've started and stopped with analysis on how it might affect his stock portfolio

Why, he's already rich.  And he did it starting Staples and turning around failing companies, not trading stocks.  Did he do that as governor?

Your description seems to fit what the 3 rich ladies from San Francisco do - Feinstein, Pelosi, and Barbara (Chihuahua) Boxer (they are local politicians for me).  As well as many of their colleagues.  The person that got the most stimulus money so far (through his investments) is White House friend Warren Buffett.  And people wonder why he's a Democrat.  Soros must be well up on that list as well.

[PB the Deplorable]

... with our dogs strapped to the roof of our...

Heh, that story disappeared when someone noticed in one of his biographies that Obama ate dog as a kid growing up in Indonesia. 

When Bo and Sunny turn up missing, maybe Barrack will promise his daughters a full investigation.

[FightTheFuture]

That's right, we wouldn't.  We would know that 53% of us would receive the best he had to give, until his magical underpants guided us all to Kolob, with our dogs strapped to the roof of our Godly spaceships.  Once there, we would be greeted by binders full of women, that we might marry one or more of them.  We would have many offspring, because contraception of any sort would be almost impossible to procur - and don't even think about abortion, that's a non-starter. We would name these many children in fine Republican tradition - names like Trig, Hat, Boot, Mitzy, Tad, Biff, Muffler, Glove.  For a while, we would welcome others to Kolob, but then we would build a giant space wall to keep others out, and demonize the ones we had previously welcomed, threatening to eject them (or better yet, encouraging them to eject themselves!) into the vacuum of space if they didn't start acting (and looking) more like us.

Yep, knew what we had in that great man for sure.

You know, when I was a youngster, I too did hard drugs. There`s still hope, for you.

[FightTheFuture]

Yes.

HOLY...

I knew it!

[Nucky Nolan]

Paperboy, the following is in reference to another post in another thread. Why are Graham and McCain after Assad? Obama's face-saving strike on Syria, with the transparent "justification" that it's for humanitarian, precedent-setting purposes, is just a means for them to finally get the end they desire. They hope that Iran is antagonized, provoked into doing something that will give us an excuse to attack them.

[Nucky Nolan]

Thank you, Nucky. As the song goes, I try to be honest, try to be kind and honestly leave when I know that it's time.

Are you leaving us? Maybe I read too much into things.

[PB the Deplorable]

Paperboy, the following is in reference to another post in another thread. Why are Graham and McCain after Assad? Obama's face-saving strike on Syria, with the transparent "justification" that it's for humanitarian, precedent-setting purposes, is just a means for them to finally get the end they desire. They hope that Iran is antagonized, provoked into doing something that will give us an excuse to attack them.

That may be part of it.  This seems like one of the worst possible ways to go about getting rid of Iran's nukes though.  Only a surprise attack has any kind of chance of working, and it's probably too late for that.  With this Syria stuff they now have the Russians and Iranians on full alert.  Just because Obama and McCain are stupid and incompetent, it's a big mistake to think the Russians and Iranians are too.  They aren't.

In the case of McCain, I think he is still embarrassed about going from 'Big Media's favorite Republican Senator' to 'failed Presidential candidate'.  He needs to be thought of as relevant, especially in military policy.  In addition, a lot of what is going on with him, as well as the rest of the leadership (all RINO-type Establishment Rs), is the desire to make deals.  And be praised for that.  They think that's what they are in DC to do.  Especially the ones who have been there the longest. 

In other words ego. 

And they are still operating like it's 2007 - being called a 'racist' is their worst nightmare, and they find it better to avoid that and mostly just go along with whatever Obama wants.

[Sardondi]

Oh, here's some good news: Vlad The Impaler says Russia just might help Syria militarily if it's attacked by any outside power. [urlhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/obama-to-engage-putin-on-syria-strike-at-g-20-summit/][/url]

All the dominoes standing by, ready to mimic August of 1914.

[Yorkshire pud]

Oh, here's some good news: Vlad The Impaler says Russia just might help Syria militarily if it's attacked by any outside power. [urlhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/obama-to-engage-putin-on-syria-strike-at-g-20-summit/][/url]

All the dominoes standing by, ready to mimic August of 1914.

Yeah, but at least he's told everyone first, if he hadn't we'd never have guessed.

[Nucky Nolan]

That may be part of it.  This seems like one of the worst possible ways to go about getting rid of Iran's nukes though.  Only a surprise attack has any kind of chance of working, and it's probably too late for that.  With this Syria stuff they now have the Russians and Iranians on full alert.  Just because Obama and McCain are stupid and incompetent, it's a big mistake to think the Russians and Iranians are too.  They aren't.

In the case of McCain, I think he is still embarrassed about going from 'Big Media's favorite Republican Senator' to 'failed Presidential candidate'.  He needs to be thought of as relevant, especially in military policy.  In addition, a lot of what is going on with him, as well as the rest of the leadership (all RINO-type Establishment Rs), is the desire to make deals.  And be praised for that.  They think that's what they are in DC to do.  Especially the ones who have been there the longest. 

In other words ego. 

And they are still operating like it's 2007 - being called a 'racist' is their worst nightmare, and they find it better to avoid that and mostly just go along with whatever Obama wants.

Boehner and Cantor come to mind. Rubio, we hardly know ye. Compromise can be positive, but their primary job description is to represent the citizens that give them said jobs. This Syrian fiasco will be a test of how relevant that is these days. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but there may be a small group that will try to fulfill their plans whether or not Americans support them. It might not make a difference if 99% of us don't want x while they do want x. It's like both the politicians and the voters are just window dressing, both at the mercy of the inner sanctum that pulls the strings. As for the neocons, I meant that they'll take advantage of all reactions to the strike if it fits their agenda.

[NowhereInTime]

Oh, here's some good news: Vlad The Impaler says Russia just might help Syria militarily if it's attacked by any outside power. [urlhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/obama-to-engage-putin-on-syria-strike-at-g-20-summit/][/url]

All the dominoes standing by, ready to mimic August of 1914.

He had his shirt off again when he said it.  I get where you're coming from but I just don't see where it gives the Russians any advantage to stick their neck out for Syria.  Does an Assad led Syria in any way diminish the rise of Turkish power in the region?  I suppose the oil logistics are important but wouldn't the "next" government, even Al Qaeda government, be foolish to break that relationship?
Finally, can Putin seriously keep doubling down against the US and expect to draw a straight flush on the  river card? What happens when his "forces" meet ours in an armed conflict? 
I really hope that the Kremlin staff hides the vodka this coming week.

[onan]

He had his shirt off again when he said it.  I get where you're coming from but I just don't see where it gives the Russians any advantage to stick their neck out for Syria.  Does an Assad led Syria in any way diminish the rise of Turkish power in the region?  I suppose the oil logistics are important but wouldn't the "next" government, even Al Qaeda government, be foolish to break that relationship?
Finally, can Putin seriously keep doubling down against the US and expect to draw a straight flush on the  river card? What happens when his "forces" meet ours in an armed conflict? 
I really hope that the Kremlin staff hides the vodka this coming week.

I don't see Putin as much of a threat. Any conflict with the US would cost them more than us. But neither the US or the Russian Federation can really afford a massive war. And if it were to happen no one would benefit. Except perhaps any large power that stayed out of the fight, and watched the dust settle. The Russian Federation in my opinion is beyond stupid not to make a strong alliance with the US. I really don't see them ever achieving stability any other way.

[Yorkshire pud]

I don't see Putin as much of a threat. Any conflict with the US would cost them more than us. But neither the US or the Russian Federation can really afford a massive war. And if it were to happen no one would benefit. Except perhaps any large power that stayed out of the fight, and watched the dust settle. The Russian Federation in my opinion is beyond stupid not to make a strong alliance with the US. I really don't see them ever achieving stability any other way.

Russia may not be a threat to the USA directly; however, they supply an awful lot of gas to Europe. To the extent that if they stopped doing so, Europe would essentially stop generating electricity, period. The USA has a lot of interests in Europe. Companies, personnel, bases, the financial sectors, NATO- Turkey of whom is a member. Turkey is also signed up to the EU. Russia could inflict great damage on Europe and by extension the US without firing a shot. If Obama has overlooked that; and I very much doubt he has, then he's either willfully idiotic or blase enough to think it really doesn't matter. From a military standpoint, Russia is already supplying to Syria and Iran. It just takes one US jet to be shot down by a Russian SAM missile fired from Syria to cause a whole shower of shit to come down.

[PB the Deplorable]

Fucking John McCain thinks screaming 'Allah Akbar' is the same thing as saying 'Thank God'.  And he goes on to tell us the rebel fighters in Syria are 'moderates'.

Time to leave John.  And take Barry with you.

[Yorkshire pud]

Fucking John McCain thinks screaming 'Allah Akbar' is the same thing as saying 'Thank God'.  And he goes on to tell us the rebel fighters in Syria are 'moderates'.

Time to leave John.  And take Barry with you.

Seriously; being as impartial as you can, what do you think Congress will vote? Is it too tight to know? Have they been lobbied by the population at large in any way? If they have is there an overwhelming feeling one way or the other?

[NowhereInTime]

Seriously; being as impartial as you can, what do you think Congress will vote? Is it too tight to know? Have they been lobbied by the population at large in any way? If they have is there an overwhelming feeling one way or the other?

Last week I mocked Congress for getting this vote as another chance to gaffe but I will admit that it's more than just Tea-people and Squiberals bemoaning intervention.  I've heard so many in house and senate (including my Senator, Chris Murphy D-CT an Obama die-hard) speak vehemently against any American involvement that I think both houses will, narrowly but resolutely, vote "no". 
I still believe air & drone strikes to bring air relief to rebel factions is on order, but perhaps we should limit any involvement to humanitarian only.  Does this leave the French as the only nation "in" or are they out, too?

[b_dubb]

I don't think Romney would be doing anything differently than Obama except that Romney would've just ordered a strike on Syria the first time a hawk told him to. Given Romney's "flexibility" with Pro Life and Pro Choice he doesn't strike me as someone with a backbone

[PB the Deplorable]

Seriously; being as impartial as you can, what do you think Congress will vote? Is it too tight to know? Have they been lobbied by the population at large in any way? If they have is there an overwhelming feeling one way or the other?

That's a good question. 

First off, regardless of the vote, Obama already has the authority to lob missiles into Syria and train troops at bases in Jordan, and would continue to have if regardless of how a vote goes.  No President has viewed the 1973 War Powers Act as valid, and all of them have ordered limited military operations without getting Congressional authorization.  We are training troops in places like the Philippines right now who then go out and fight their Moslem rebels - those long-term on-going training missions haven't been authorized by Congress either.

Just by asking for this Obama has weakened the Office of the President.

I'm not even sure why he is requesting it - is it to get a 'no' vote so he can call it all off and save face?  if so, that isn't going very well.  Or is it to get the R's on record as supporting it before the fact for political reasons?


I would say very few of the D's in the House or Senate want this.  The Tea Party and the more Conservative R's don't want it either.  That leaves establishment R's concerned about protecting the powers of the Presidency, establishment R's that think they are there to make deals and be in the limelight, the R's that will nearly always go along with Presidential prerogative when it comes to issues such as Cabinet and judicial appointments and military operations.

Harry Reid will make threats and deals and get some Ds to reluctantly vote yes.  Never discount Nancy Pelosi's ability to arm-twist her members into voting her way.  Plenty of D's will end up going along, just to support Obama.  If the vote count is close, there will be deals made to get enough votes to push it through, and members looking at tough campaigns next year will be allowed to vote 'No' without negative consequence from their party leadership.

No idea what that all adds up to, I don't think anyone does right now.

[Sardondi]

...I've heard so many in house and senate (including my Senator, Chris Murphy D-CT an Obama die-hard) speak vehemently against any American involvement that I think both houses will, narrowly but resolutely, vote "no"....

You have more confidence (or is that lack of confidence?) in Congress than I. I'm not even sure the House will vote against it with POS RINO Senator Lindsey Graham saying such absolutely ludicrous things as failure to strike Syria will result in a nuclear attack on the US. What a craven piece of refuse.

But if it looks like the House will hang tough, there are signs Obama will accept a Senate-only approval and pretend the House doesn't exist. (Hell, he's acted as if Congress hasn't existed for 5 years anyway.) He can win in the Senate on Party loyalty, despite the bone-deep incompetence of Harry Reid. This is about nothing but saving face for Obama at this point. The sheer galloping hypocrisy and massive intellectual dishonesty shown by this Administration and so many Congressional supporters of military action makes me almost physically ill.

[PB the Deplorable]

If it turns out this poison gas episode is a ruse by Obama's terrorist friends to draw the US military into Syria on their behalf - and that's the way it seems to be going - would that finally be enough for the country to demand his resignation?

[Sardondi]

If it turns out this poison gas episode is a ruse by Obama's terrorist friends to draw the US military into Syria on their behalf - and that's the way it seems to be going - would that finally be enough for the country to demand his resignation?

How would we know anyone had demanded his resignation? There has to be a media to report it, and there is none. The US news media committed suicide in 2008.

[Yorkshire pud]

I could post the link to last friday nights BBC Newsnight, but you can't get it in the US. The embedded US reporter Alistair Leithhead went to AZ to talk to John McCain and lots of people in the vacinity across the political spectrum and professions including a shock jock (who was not only black but a rep!) a few vets from Vietnam and also a motorcycle get together:

McCain was filmed at a little hall with I guess 100 people attending. An Iraq vet stood up and read aloud why the US shouldn't be involved in Syria, ending with "We should stay out!"..McCain responded with (quote) "I think you speak for yourself and not the majority of the soldiers and veterens I speak to,  and I speak to a lot (Boos ripple across the room, and two hecklers thrown out).

Then a bar where a Vietnam vet was interviewed, quite articulate and he summed it up with "I've seen too many young men killed unnecessarily"...And the voice over said that there were a lot in the bar who felt the same way.

The interesting one was the bike get together; voiceover said that there were reps, dems, libs, cons, libertarians, and the overwhelming view with all of them was not to get involved in Syria.

There was a live link with the ex commander of US forces in Bosnia who worked for Clinton. He was very measured and non committal of his own opinions but pointed out that the 'red line' comment would come back to bite, as to say something and not act on it afterwards would lose a great deal of credibility not just for Obama but the US..However to counter that, he did say that if the US could present irrefutable proof to the UN that Assad was responsible for the chemical weapons and Russia still supported the Assad regime afterwards, they wouldn't be taken seriously if they later approached the UN on an issue that they wished support from the security council.
Asked how he thought the vote would go, he said he really didn't know. But pointed out that Congressional support has only ever been asked for three times in previous US military adventures.

Link below you might find interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24004836

[Nucky Nolan]

It's a moot point, Yorkshire Pud. The tail wags the dog. It doesn't seem to matter that most Americans oppose military action after Afghanistan and Iraq. The proverbial "they" find ways to do what they want.

[aldousburbank]

Wouldn't it be weird if a unilateral strike went down on Syria the same night Sirius takes out premiere?

!PREPARE THE SCORPION ARMIES!

[Sardondi]

Wouldn't it be weird if a unilateral strike went down on Syria the same night Sirius takes out premiere?

!PREPARE THE SCORPION ARMIES!

If only. Led in the field by by General Dwight Schrute.

[Nucky Nolan]

Don't mind the Chinese and Russian warships. Move along. There's nothing to see here. It's almost time for the new season of "The X Factor".