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I return to discuss...penis size

Started by Sardondi, April 11, 2013, 01:36:20 PM

Sardondi

Howdy, gang. I've been sitting on the virtual beach, imaginary boat drinks in hand as I take a short break. But this is too good to let pass. Surely many of you have heard of that scientific study which seems to confirm that which most men have always known, despite all those calming assertions to the contrary; and that is that apparently women do prefer large penises. Long-short (heh) is that a small study seems to show that young, straight (presumably white) women prefer men with larger penises, AOTBE*. Link: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2013/04/08/can-penis-size-sway-womens-choice-of-mate

But let's not get carried away. There are some major limitations of this study. I'm not saying the study is junk science...although that is always possible, and even if it is a pristine study to this point it can yet be made or we can learn that it is junk in an instant.

What I am saying is that the hullabaloo is because of classic junk assessment of this study by our science-illiterate mass media. Because they're not interested in truth; for them "accurate" is good enough. And the study technically said what the news reports say it said. Sort of. But there are major, major limitations of and problems with the study which I haven't seen addressed in looking at four of the main articles which came out on the study.

To begin with, no one, at least among the abc/cbs/nbc crowd, seems to have stopped to comment on the study's miniscule sample: the study was of 106 women. It's tiny. That's so small it's on the atomic level. I mean, they look at a mere 106 women, and the media is drawing conclusions about the evolution of our entire species. The arrogance and ignorance of that just staggers me.

Plus they were all Australian women, race unknown; although it's a good bet they were primarily whites of British extraction, with a handful of aboriginal and maybe a couple of Asians (including Indians and Pacific Islanders) thrown in. Also, the story says they had an "average age of 26". Now, the media's impressive scientific illiteracy is surpassed only by its breathtaking ignorance of even basic concepts of arithmetic. So we're not sure what the hell they mean intend by "average". Usually they want to say "mean", although the concept of the median has been known to slip in there. So we'll have to guess whether most women were 26, or if that was the mid-point in the range of ages, or if their ages were added together and the result divided by 106. Who knows? Additionally has anyone asked about any impact of the women's menstrual cycles, and what impact if any ovulation may have had on preference?

Then we've also got the cultural bias which may exist. Let's be honest here: if we can allow ourselves for a moment to engage in the now-scorned practice of assigning national characters and/or temperaments, I think most would agree its no surprise that Australians would definitely think that size counts. The country has a reputation for being free-wheeling, unconstrained, hyper-physical folks. Aye! Let's have an oil-can of lager and measure meat sticks on the bar while the womenfolk cheer us on, mates! Who knows what cultural biases may have impacted?

Also I note the 56 man/penis samples the women looked at were from a study of Italian men. Has anyone taken into account any non-penile or even non-sexual categories of preference which might be over/under-represented in a sample of of 56 Italian men? Dark hair? Swarthy or fair? Hirstute or shaved/hairless? Circumcised or natural; aka helmet-head vs. anteater?

I also note there was no mention of whether the study controlled for whether the men might have been seen as good providers. For example, were the naked men photographed sitting in their Lamborghinis? Because I think it is a scientific fact that men with penises the size of an acorn, but who have those acorn-sized penises driven around in Rolls-Royces, are far more attractive to women than even men who, when naked, are mistaken for Secretariat. I guess it's just one of those quirks of evolution.

And on and on. You can play too. No doubt you can think up more holes in the analysis than I have. I comment only to remind us that, in this day of highly partisan science and science-for-hire, in which life-or-death grants often depend on swaying the opinions of as few as a dozen elected officials of often staggeringly limited understanding, media reports about science and medicine are almost always highly suspect. Usually the only reliable conclusion we can make about such studies is that the studies are unreliable. Always proceed with caution.


*All Other Things Being Equal, because the study noted the women seemed to prefer (duh) the upside-down pyramid body type.

Tinfoil Hat

Men who want to discuss penis size usually have an inferiority complex.

Just sayin'...

Pragmier

When I'm on the beach and drinking, I sure ain't thinking about this stuff.  ;D   WB ... more later.

Sardondi

Quote from: Tinfoil Hat on April 11, 2013, 02:17:20 PM
Men who want to discuss penis size usually have an inferiority complex.
Just sayin'...
Heh. Really? Do I even know you? Hell of an introduction there.

As for your allegation, I guess the men who can't bring themselves to "discuss penis size" (even though my comment was actually about a study and its "shortcomings") are terrified of the word because of their, uh, deep seated, uh, securities about their own penis, huh? Sure, you bet. 

Quote from: Pragmier on April 11, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
When I'm on the beach and drinking, I sure ain't thinking about this stuff.  ;D   WB ... more later.

*sigh* And here I think I'll help you guys, take the pressure off, show you there's some light at the end of the tunnel. Well, no more, laddies. From now on it's pictures of Maasai warriors after a lion kill; gifs of elephantiasis cases at Philadelphia's Mütter Museum; and tales about what life is like for the top stallion on a stud farm in Justified territory. Hey, did you notice that Wonderland was on the other night? I always thought that back in the early 80's someone at the AP had a wicked sense of humor in composing the news alerts about the murder charges against John Holmes so that they read "the four victims were bludgeoned to death with a blunt instrument". badda bump! I'm here all week! Well, not really.

Good Lord, I take just a week off, dip back in a few minutes, and you've instantly made me sound like Gassy Man! GAAAAAAAH!

stevesh

Awesome. I had 'penis size' in the pool as the subject of Sardondi's first post when he returned. My prize ? I get to ride with Noory and Danheiser in their next parade appearance. Shotgun.

Sardondi

Quote from: stevesh on April 11, 2013, 03:15:40 PM
Awesome. I had 'penis size' in the pool as the subject of Sardondi's first post when he returned. My prize ? I get to ride with Noory and Danheiser in their next parade appearance. Shotgun.

Heh. "Shotgun" wins the coffee-out-the-nose award here. But I'm still gonna sit on the beach for awhile and think about...well, hell, it's penises, I guess.


Yorkshire pud

Well chaps, we're okay, because we all have the average ten inch penis..so nothing to worry about. The girls love it.  :)

Eddie Coyle

 
         The dichotomous nature of Coyle's existence.

        (1) I have size 15 feet.

        (2) I'm Irish.

            That's why I'd hide my name tag if ever had to wear one. Let the girls see my feet, but not my name.

Pragmier

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on April 11, 2013, 03:23:56 PM
Well chaps, we're okay, because we all have the average ten inch penis..so nothing to worry about. The girls love it.  :)


Don't forget to divide by 2.54.

Tinfoil Hat

Touché Sardoni. Good to have you back.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Pragmier on April 11, 2013, 03:37:03 PM

Don't forget to divide by 2.54.


You mean ten inch isn't average? I've always been told I'm average...heeeeeellllp!!! :o

Pragmier

Well I tried to read the original study but there's a fee for that journal from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

I wonder how many are familiar with this -

QuoteIn general, smaller flaccid penises lengthen at erection by a greater percentage than do larger flaccid penises, with most men reaching an average size of 5 to 7 inches, so the flaccid size of a penis is not a good predictor of erect size. - The Kinsey Institue

Kinda throws a monkey wrench into the whole exercise.


As far as the media's twisting of facts, I'm with you 100%. It's always best to check the source material, especially the findings or conclusion section; it rarely lives up to the sensationalism of headlines that follow.

McPhallus


And there's the whole question of length vs. girth, i.e., is it better to have a longer, thinner member or a shorter one with more girth.  In my experience, girth often trumps length.

Too bad Jasmine and Fry's Girl don't post here anymore; a breast size thread would've been fun.


Quote from: Pragmier on April 11, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Well I tried to read the original study but there's a fee for that journal from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

I wonder how many are familiar with this -

Kinda throws a monkey wrench into the whole exercise.


As far as the media's twisting of facts, I'm with you 100%. It's always best to check the source material, especially the findings or conclusion section; it rarely lives up to the sensationalism of headlines that follow.

lonevoice

Welcome back, sardoni.    I'm going to assume that this thread is your valiant attempt to demonstrate the possibility that genitalia can be discussed without making readers feel like vomiting, unlike the posts that originally sent you (and me) to the bench.  Or, could it be a friendly invitation to those who wish to discuss their junk that they may do so on a thread about junk, rather than shock readers with it in the middle of totally unrelated threads?  Yeah, that might work!  Keep all the junk discussion in one thread, clearly identified by thread title, which allows for caveat lector.   Or is it just the boat beers talking?

As far as this particular discussion goes,  have you seen this article from last week's Kingsport, TN news channel?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Witnesses: Man drove 90 mph with genitals hanging out the window

>>>>>snip<<<<<
"It seems that every victim would tell the same story. But I knew all the victims did not know each other," Kingsport Police Detective Terry Christian said.

>>>snip<<<

"At over 90 miles per hour, he had his penis out [the window]... he was masturbating... and that's when it got really, really bad. I wouldn't look over any more, and I wrote his tag number down on my hand, which I believe he noticed, and he exited very quickly," [witness] Street said.
http://www.wjhl.com/Global/story.asp?S=21885502
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How well-endowed would a guy have to be to manage this particular feat?




Sardondi

Quote from: lonevoice on April 11, 2013, 04:22:22 PM
Welcome back, sardoni.    I'm going to assume that this thread is your valiant attempt to demonstrate the possibility that genitalia can be discussed without making readers feel like vomiting, unlike the posts that originally sent you (and me) to the bench.  Or, could it be a friendly invitation to those who wish to discuss their junk that they may do so on a thread about junk, rather than shock readers with it in the middle of totally unrelated threads?  Yeah, that might work!  Keep all the junk discussion in one thread, clearly identified by thread title, which allows for caveat lector.   Or is it just the boat beers talking?

As far as this particular discussion goes,  have you seen this article from last week's Kingsport, TN news channel?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Witnesses: Man drove 90 mph with genitals hanging out the window

>>>>>snip<<<<<
"It seems that every victim would tell the same story. But I knew all the victims did not know each other," Kingsport Police Detective Terry Christian said.

>>>snip<<<

"At over 90 miles per hour, he had his penis out [the window]... he was masturbating... and that's when it got really, really bad. I wouldn't look over any more, and I wrote his tag number down on my hand, which I believe he noticed, and he exited very quickly," [witness] Street said.
http://www.wjhl.com/Global/story.asp?S=21885502
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How well-endowed would a guy have to be to manage this particular feat?
Okay, the first part of your post has me all shameful and feeling stupid....and then you link to the hilarious junk-out-the-window story. Maybe I'm proving Tinfoil Hat's point here, but how the hell do you get in a position to hang your stuff out a car window? Okay, I'm admitting to subpar performance, is that it?

Quote from: Tinfoil Hat on April 11, 2013, 03:40:44 PM
Touché Sardoni. Good to have you back.
BTW Tinfoil, I apologize if I responded with more heat than you intended. It's just that, ever since the war, man, and the wound, things just have never, you know, gotten back to normal, even with the surgeries and the prosthesis, it's just never been, like, right, so I'm kind of sensitive. Especially since, contrary to what the docs say, most folks can tell a difference between flesh, and a tungsten-carbide shaft with a serrated edge.

Welcome back, Sardondi... your thoughtful prose has been missed...

pretty much...

sort of...

well, by a few people anyway.   ;)

Pragmier

I wonder if having the opposite sex's object of desire hidden from sight is an advantage or dissadvantage in the socio-behavioural scheme of things. Contrast that with our ability to observe (for the most part) and judge women's bodies more easily. It would be interesting if studies have been done on what leverage, if any, the element of concealment gives each side.

A recent NYTimes piece on evolution and mating is interesting reading. There is a book I forget the name of, among my collection of behaviour economics and game theory, in which an experiment is described. Researchers observed women's reaction in a social setting to a guy wearing a t-shirt proclaiming his income in bold letters. There was a measurable change in the women, with higher income resulting in more possitive responses. I love it when pocket-protector types go into bars and conduct experiments  ;D .


RedMichael

Quote from: Sardondi on April 11, 2013, 01:36:20 PM
Howdy, gang. I've been sitting on the virtual beach, imaginary boat drinks in hand as I take a short break. But this is too good to let pass. Surely many of you have heard of that scientific study which seems to confirm that which most men have always known, despite all those calming assertions to the contrary; and that is that apparently women do prefer large penises. Long-short (heh) is that a small study seems to show that young, straight (presumably white) women prefer men with larger penises, AOTBE*. Link: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2013/04/08/can-penis-size-sway-womens-choice-of-mate

But let's not get carried away. There are some major limitations of this study. I'm not saying the study is junk science...although that is always possible, and even if it is a pristine study to this point it can yet be made or we can learn that it is junk in an instant.

What I am saying is that the hullabaloo is because of classic junk assessment of this study by our science-illiterate mass media. Because they're not interested in truth; for them "accurate" is good enough. And the study technically said what the news reports say it said. Sort of. But there are major, major limitations of and problems with the study which I haven't seen addressed in looking at four of the main articles which came out on the study.

To begin with, no one, at least among the abc/cbs/nbc crowd, seems to have stopped to comment on the study's miniscule sample: the study was of 106 women. It's tiny. That's so small it's on the atomic level. I mean, they look at a mere 106 women, and the media is drawing conclusions about the evolution of our entire species. The arrogance and ignorance of that just staggers me.

Plus they were all Australian women, race unknown; although it's a good bet they were primarily whites of British extraction, with a handful of aboriginal and maybe a couple of Asians (including Indians and Pacific Islanders) thrown in. Also, the story says they had an "average age of 26". Now, the media's impressive scientific illiteracy is surpassed only by its breathtaking ignorance of even basic concepts of arithmetic. So we're not sure what the hell they mean intend by "average". Usually they want to say "mean", although the concept of the median has been known to slip in there. So we'll have to guess whether most women were 26, or if that was the mid-point in the range of ages, or if their ages were added together and the result divided by 106. Who knows? Additionally has anyone asked about any impact of the women's menstrual cycles, and what impact if any ovulation may have had on preference?

Then we've also got the cultural bias which may exist. Let's be honest here: if we can allow ourselves for a moment to engage in the now-scorned practice of assigning national characters and/or temperaments, I think most would agree its no surprise that Australians would definitely think that size counts. The country has a reputation for being free-wheeling, unconstrained, hyper-physical folks. Aye! Let's have an oil-can of lager and measure meat sticks on the bar while the womenfolk cheer us on, mates! Who knows what cultural biases may have impacted?

Also I note the 56 man/penis samples the women looked at were from a study of Italian men. Has anyone taken into account any non-penile or even non-sexual categories of preference which might be over/under-represented in a sample of of 56 Italian men? Dark hair? Swarthy or fair? Hirstute or shaved/hairless? Circumcised or natural; aka helmet-head vs. anteater?

I also note there was no mention of whether the study controlled for whether the men might have been seen as good providers. For example, were the naked men photographed sitting in their Lamborghinis? Because I think it is a scientific fact that men with penises the size of an acorn, but who have those acorn-sized penises driven around in Rolls-Royces, are far more attractive to women than even men who, when naked, are mistaken for Secretariat. I guess it's just one of those quirks of evolution.

And on and on. You can play too. No doubt you can think up more holes in the analysis than I have. I comment only to remind us that, in this day of highly partisan science and science-for-hire, in which life-or-death grants often depend on swaying the opinions of as few as a dozen elected officials of often staggeringly limited understanding, media reports about science and medicine are almost always highly suspect. Usually the only reliable conclusion we can make about such studies is that the studies are unreliable. Always proceed with caution.


*All Other Things Being Equal, because the study noted the women seemed to prefer (duh) the upside-down pyramid body type.


You are also forgetting, with such a small sample size, how did they get their samples? IE: I am not trying to make this sound negative but how many women would honestly feel comfortable volunteering for something like this? Maybe the type of woman that would be all about this has a slightly different mindset ie: not the average. That being said, I imagine better tests would provide similar trends but a lot less extreme.

McPhallus


We men communicate our value by having success, confidence, strength, dominance, adaptability, and good health.  I don't know that we really conceal those things... We just communicate them indirectly.

Quote from: Pragmier on April 12, 2013, 03:10:23 PM
I wonder if having the opposite sex's object of desire hidden from sight is an advantage or dissadvantage in the socio-behavioural scheme of things. Contrast that with our ability to observe (for the most part) and judge women's bodies more easily. It would be interesting if studies have been done on what leverage, if any, the element of concealment gives each side.

A recent NYTimes piece on evolution and mating is interesting reading. There is a book I forget the name of, among my collection of behaviour economics and game theory, in which an experiment is described. Researchers observed women's reaction in a social setting to a guy wearing a t-shirt proclaiming his income in bold letters. There was a measurable change in the women, with higher income resulting in more possitive responses. I love it when pocket-protector types go into bars and conduct experiments  ;D .

ACE of CLUBS

Churchill in a 'speedo' ....... nice!

RedMichael

On a vital visit to the White House, Churchill needed to secure FDR's trust at any cost. The US hadn't entered the war yet and Britain was clinging on for survival. FDR wheeled to Churchill's room to pay a visit. Churchill opened the door naked and said "The Prime Minister has nothing to hide from the President of the United States."

lonevoice

Quote from: Sardondi on April 11, 2013, 11:42:54 PM
Okay, the first part of your post has me all shameful and feeling stupid....and then you link to the hilarious junk-out-the-window story. Maybe I'm proving Tinfoil Hat's point here, but how the hell do you get in a position to hang your stuff out a car window? Okay, I'm admitting to subpar performance, is that it?
BTW Tinfoil, I apologize if I responded with more heat than you intended. It's just that, ever since the war, man, and the wound, things just have never, you know, gotten back to normal, even with the surgeries and the prosthesis, it's just never been, like, right, so I'm kind of sensitive. Especially since, contrary to what the docs say, most folks can tell a difference between flesh, and a tungsten-carbide shaft with a serrated edge.

Oh, geeze.  If anything in my post caused you to feel shameful or stupid, then I'm doing it wrong.   It's hard to imagine someone ever feeling stupid who has such a serrated edge to his wit, as you do.    I've missed your posts, and the welcome back was quite sincere.

As for the junk hanging out the window guy, I admit that story occupied my thoughts for entirely too long.  It was worse than learning to solve rubik's cube the first time.   I kept trying to figure out how a guy could drive a car (nevermind at 90 miles an hour!) with his junk hanging out the window, and while masturbating.    I finally figured out the only possible explanation:  cruise control!   

So, now we've got this guy with his cruise control set at 90 MPH,  on his knees sideways in the driver's seat, junk out the window, one hand on the junk and one hand on the steering wheel.   And, the story says there were dozens of complaints about him doing this over a period of 3-4 years!   

The icing on the cake of the story was the fact that he was the former mayor of the town. 

ksm32

and all replies are by dudes.. duh :P

onan

Quote from: ksm32 on April 13, 2013, 12:20:08 AM
and all replies are by dudes.. duh :P


Well it is a stupid topic. I am not sure what the point of a penis size and preference is. If by this time there isn't a general consensus that relationships are built on multiple characteristics then we are even more shallow than I had considered. As the old joke goes, women want security... at least that is what they scream when I approach them.


Not to mention but mentioning anyway... what the fuck are you going to do? I mean if you are gifted with a massive 2.5 inches... that is what you have... medical science will have to get back to you.

analog kid

Quote from: Pragmier on April 11, 2013, 03:55:32 PM

QuoteIn general, smaller flaccid penises lengthen at erection by a greater percentage than do larger flaccid penises, with most men reaching an average size of 5 to 7 inches, so the flaccid size of a penis is not a good predictor of erect size. - The Kinsey Institue


There is a maddeningly large portion of the female population who aren't aware of this.

onan

Quote from: analog kid on April 13, 2013, 06:41:39 AM


There is a maddeningly large portion of the female population who aren't aware of this.


There are dramatic differences in the shape and appearance of newborn male's penises. Most nurses (most nurses being female) aren't aware of the fact that erect length has little to do with flaccid length. The general appearance of a flaccid penis is either smooth or wrinkled. Wrinkled penises although smaller in flaccid state become much larger and harder than the smooth...




I learned all this from a chick flick... so it has to be true.

analog kid

Quote from: onan on April 13, 2013, 09:23:55 AM

There are dramatic differences in the shape and appearance of newborn male's penises. Most nurses (most nurses being female) aren't aware of the fact that erect length has little to do with flaccid length. The general appearance of a flaccid penis is either smooth or wrinkled. Wrinkled penises although smaller in flaccid state become much larger and harder than the smooth...




I learned all this from a chick flick... so it has to be true.

I was reading a conversation between a nurse and some other women, where she was laughing about the small wiener of an old man who was in her care, and the other women got a real kick out of it. I eventually interjected with this basic fact of male anatomy and all the women became really offended that I would suggest they all weren't penile experts.

I just had surgery and I had a nurse, who apparently recognized me from high school, walk over to my operating table, lift the sheet, look at my unit and walked away. I was probably mumbling about frightened turtles as I was being put under.

Eddie Coyle

 
          If I walked into wall whilst fully erect...

          I'd probably still break my nose.

stevesh

Quote from: Eddie Coyle on April 13, 2013, 10:23:18 AM

          If I walked into wall whilst fully erect...

          I'd probably still break my nose.

Didn't realize you were Jewish ...

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