Richard C. Hoagland

[ziznak]

heheh... astro/expat he called you guys "nutbags"

[expat]

heheh... astro/expat he called you guys "nutbags"

Is a nutbag better or worse than a douchebag? Anyone know?

[ziznak]

not sure... was surprised he used a new word.  I checked out his little picassa gallery the other day and he was clearly calling you guys douchebags there.  He's being creative ya know switchin it up.  The paracast guys kinda got on him for talking "mystical."  He of course retorted by getting louder and sounding himself like a bag of nutz.

[astroguy]

I just sent this to George, Tom, and Lisa:

Hello George, Tom, and Lisa,

I will try to make this e-mail brief.  My name is Stuart Robbins, and your guest tonight, Mike Bara, is *very* likely to either reference me specifically or to allude to me but not "name names."  He has done so in his last three interviews about his book and a centerpiece of it, the claim of a lunar ziggurat on the Moon.

I have done an extensive analysis of Mike's very specific claim of the ziggurat, which was also made by Richard Hoagland on C2C on July 20.  My first analysis can be found at http://wp.me/pjMYE-mk , while my final one is at http://wp.me/pjMYE-pW and contains a link to the nearly dozen other posts I have made on the subject.

As I have done extensive analysis of the ziggurat claim and Mike has spent over 17,000 words on his blog in a 5-part series attempting to insult me and claim my analysis is wrong, I will attempt to call in tonight.  I will be respectful and polite, but if I can be put on the air, I will ask very pointed questions.

Sincerely,
Dr. Stuart Robbins
http://about.sjrdesign.net





P.S.  I would urge you to ask Mike the following questions tonight:

- Why does Mike trust only an image he found on a video game forum ("Call of Duty: Zombies") that shows the ziggurat as opposed to ALL OTHER images from numerous NASA missions and a Japanese imaging mission of the moon?

- What would it take to falsify Mike's belief that the ziggurat is real?  If the answer is effectively "nothing" or is something that can't be done at this time, then what he is claiming is no longer science, but effectively a religious belief because it can't be shown by any means to him to be wrong.

[If Mike claims that pareidolia does not exist, which has has claimed several times recently ...] - Then what is it when people see familiar shapes in clouds, Jesus on toast, or Mary in the knot of a tree?


Mike will also very likely make several factual misstatements, including:  I have been the one insulting him (I have never insulted him, but every response from him has been laden with insults towards me), I missed the actual location of the ziggurat by about a mile (he actually missed it as I show in the posts I link to above), the NASA image AS11-38-5564 has black shadows with the only possible explanation being NASA "painted over it."  I urge you to challenge him on these points.

[coaster]

bara is a fucking idiot

[MV/Liberace!]

I just sent this to George, Tom, and Lisa:

and here will be your response:



Cricket Sound

[Morgus]

Look at what is up at Mike Bara's website prior to tonight's c2c show:
http://www.mikebara.blogspot.com/

I see he has a 5part article up there entitled:
THE DAEDALUS ZIGGURAT â€" RUBUTTING DR. STUART ROBBINS’ SPECIOUS SCIENCE

Bara has this photo there labeled: "Dr. Stuart Robbins â€" Paid Shill for NASA"


And he has another photo labeled: "Separated at birth?"

[Morgus]

Noory would probably love to do a live onair debate between them.
Noory did so before some years back between UFO researcher Stanton Friedman and skeptic/debunker Michael Shermer.
After 3 hours of debate, Noory takes online listener votes to determine who won.

[astroguy]

Bara has had that up since the interview with Mrs. Morton.

[McPhallus]

What a childish cunt that Bara is.  And I'm guessing he has zero credentials as a scientist.

[Ben Shockley]

And he has another photo labeled: "Separated at birth?"

Are they supposed to look "alike" or what?
And am I supposed to recognize the guy on the left and somehow "get it" that Dr. Robbins is a douche by association?

Hey Bara-- any joke or barb you have to explain ain't working too good, dude!

Noory would probably love to do a live onair debate between them...
After 3 hours of debate, Noory takes online listener votes to determine who won.

He loves anything where anyone else carries his dead ass.

[expat]

What a childish cunt that Bara is.  And I'm guessing he has zero credentials as a scientist.

Less than zero. Same with Hoagland.

[ziznak]

we all know who the real bitch is...

[Agent : Orange]

So, yeah... where's that bleach? My eyes might need some

[ziznak]

sorry bout that... should of wrote a warning

[Sardondi]

Gaaack! Where is the joy of waking up in a ditch and suddenly realizing you've had the last two hours of your life permanently erased from your memory? I'll settle for the last 5 minutes....

[astroguy]

If anyone is interested in just my stuff with Mike,
I've clipped their official version down to just my part, 7:06 long.  You can go to just the directory (/media/) and right-click on the file to download if you want to do that directly.  And actually, Bara and I are really only in the first ~4-5 minutes, the rest is Mike ranting against Skeptics but George for once trying to appear balanced.

[coaster]

Listening now. It's refreshing to hear Noory defend people who don't agree with Bara. He did so twice. makes me think that maybe Noory doesn't believe Bara either. I'd love to listen to a true debate between you and Bara in the future. I'm not for sure, but I think I heard Bara sigh when you mentioned who you were. That was pretty funny.

[Ben Shockley]

we all know who the real bitch is...
[IMAGES OMITTED IN THE INTEREST OF MENTAL HEALTH]

There's just something hilarious about how the facial expressions are the same regardless of pose and activity..!! 

[HAL 9000]

Look at what is up at Mike Bara's website prior to tonight's c2c show:
http://www.mikebara.blogspot.com/

I see he has a 5part article up there entitled:
THE DAEDALUS ZIGGURAT â€" RUBUTTING DR. STUART ROBBINS’ SPECIOUS SCIENCE

Bara has this photo there labeled: "Dr. Stuart Robbins â€" Paid Shill for NASA"


And he has another photo labeled: "Separated at birth?"

Then perhaps Mr. Bara wouldn't mind me posting his address in Redondo Beach so people can send him snail-mail, or his sister Kelli (b. 1956), or his brother David (Eugene David b. 1960 - named after his father) and David's wife Johnna... the list could go on... but I'll refrain, OK Mike?

Just FYI, when, in Mike Bara's short biography, note it states he, "attended Seattle Pacific University before embarking on his engineering career." It also goes on to say under "experience" that he has, "More than 25 years as an aerospace engineer\engineering consultant for Boeing, Bombardier Aerospace, INCAT Solutions, IBM and Dassault Systemes of France.

What Bara does not tell you is that he quit Seattle Pacific University, and did not attain a degree. He is NOT an aerospace engineer, nor any type of engineer. He is however, a fraud. If one were to visit Youtube, and type in the search box: 'Bara fraud' the first video listed is interesting.

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[ChewMouse]

Hal, this might be a bit much even for you and your tracking skills, but do you have record of RCH having graduated from high school?

By the way...you're a bit scary but darn if I don't click fast to read your posts when I see them.

EDIT* I'm not making a joke, I really wonder about his status as a high school grad. He said something kind of cryptic on AB's show one time, I can't remember exactly, but it was a startled pause when Art asked something about "back in your high school days..." or something. I've always wondered about that.

[HAL 9000]

Hal, this might be a bit much even for you and your tracking skills, but do you have record of RCH having graduated from high school?

By the way...you're a bit scary but darn if I don't click fast to read your posts when I see them.

EDIT* I'm not making a joke, I really wonder about his status as a high school grad. He said something kind of cryptic on AB's show one time, I can't remember exactly, but it was a startled pause when Art asked something about "back in your high school days..." or something. I've always wondered about that.

You know, I have not tried much on Hoagland, other than where he lives (personal residence), which in itself has some twists and turns in the story. Not to be revealed unless 100% confirmed. Maybe I'll give the high school thing a shot, but it's a long-shot I'd bet; too many years ago. My guess is he did graduate from HS. The only fun part would be to find which one

As for the scary bit, I understand why some might perceive that, but it's way overblown. I only bother looking into c2c guests mostly, for their fraudulent degrees and such - though I do admit to getting some info on some weirdos - Fort Rock being the most famous (you may want to read about him in the infamous Art Bell Quits Coast Thread.

The only other weirdo I found was a guy who caused a lot of trouble around here - his screen-name escapes me right now, but I recall he said he was an artist/filmmaker who was going to the Cannes film festival. He did something apparently bad here which I missed, as his posts were deleted, but he was banned. As it turns out, I found out he was banned from a number of other sites, and I subsequently found out everything about him - including copies of the short film he wrote/directed where he actually hired an actress. He said he spent around $40,000 or more for the whole shoot. To say that his film is avant-garde is to give avant-garde a bad name.

For those that remember him, maybe I'll post his "film" somewhere for y'all to watch; it's 22 minutes of the most stupidest crap I've ever seen.

Fear not however - I have no special powers - just a keyboard like anyone else.

Edit for clarification: Bara's sister's name is most like spelled Kelly, not Kelli as I previously posted.

[coaster]

The 1997  Phoenix Connection Seminar is on the Fine Art Stream. I would be so embarrassed if I were Hoagland. He was giggling and cheering like a fucking moron at everything. Claiming Spielberg put hidden symbols in the Close Encounters movie and declaring "something is going to happen". The only time the crowd was silent was when Hoagland cracked awkward, unfunny jokes. The guy is really a hyperactive little twat. My god, what an embarrassing pile of shit Hoagland is.

[McPhallus]

That user's name was the_wanderer, and he also claimed to be a painter.  He got banned after getting into fights with users (including me) over his arrogant behavior.  He's long gone, but I would love to see that video.

[onan]

but I would love to see that video.

no, no you wouldn't. please trust me.

[expat]

Not that it's of any real interest, but Mike Bara and brother Dave were at Chief Sealth High, class of 78. Dave actually graduated from Seattle Pacific (class of 92) but there's no indication Mike ever finished.

I'm much more interested in why a publisher would assign a book project with a science theme to someone who manifestly understands nothing in that department. There's evidence that Mike works well and hands in copy and art on time. That, I guess, is everything to a one-donkey publishing house like Adventures Unlimited.

[Sardondi]

Hal, this might be a bit much even for you and your tracking skills, but do you have record of RCH having graduated from high school?...
EDIT* I'm not making a joke, I really wonder about his status as a high school grad. He said something kind of cryptic on AB's show one time, I can't remember exactly, but it was a startled pause when Art asked something about "back in your high school days..." or something. I've always wondered about that.

You know, I have not tried much on Hoagland, other than where he lives (personal residence), which in itself has some twists and turns in the story. Not to be revealed unless 100% confirmed. Maybe I'll give the high school thing a shot, but it's a long-shot I'd bet; too many years ago. My guess is he did graduate from HS. The only fun part would be to find which one...

It's conceivable Hoagland could be an autodidact. And if he were, he would in one sense be far more accomplished. I suspect he at least had some post-secondary education, maybe even a degree and graduate degree. And maybe in some kind of hard-science not too far removed from astro-physics. Of course it's a question because his Wiki page, (and I assume his Enterprise Mission page) contains no information about his education. This tells me he's very sensitive about some perceived deficit or shortcoming.

Because he lacks the usual credentials which space experts possess he's clearly not part of the scientific establishment. Thus Hoagland usually gives the impression that he sees himself as a sort of maverick; a straight-talking, damn-the-torpedoes scientist whose candor terrifies the timid and bureaucrats. I think he's intentionally tried to fashion himself as a Richard Feynman, who was one of the most famous Nobel prizewinners for physics (1965), as well as successful author http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Richard+Feynman+books and general iconoclast and oddball.

Except there are many differences between Hoagland and the late Feynman. First,  Feynman's extensive education can be very easily documented from grade school through his doctorate in Physics from Princeton. Plus Feynman:
1) had a genius for correctly explaining even the most complex matters in an easily understandable fashion;
2) had a work history that was complete, self-explanatory and without gaps;
3) never boasted about or exaggerated his accomplishments, and certainly never created them out of whole cloth;
4) could make fun at his own expense;
5) was highly regarded both in and outside of his discipline;
oh, yeah, there's that Nobel Prize thing.

Otherwise they were both white males, both named Richard, and both enjoyed Tom Kha Gai. Okay, I made the last thing up. 

[RedMichael]

I am sure this has been passed around these boards a lot but here is a site I found about a guy that did his homework on Hoagland. Or as Hoagland/Bara would put it "Has an agenda"

http://www.gpposner.com/Hoagland.html

I imagine Hoagland is a mixture of above average IQ and mental illness., from drugs or something else. It is possible that he began believing his insane shit a lot time ago and it was originally a scam.

I assume Hoagland/Baras and a lot of Coast listeners suffer from Cognitive dissonance, specifically the Belief Disconfirmation Paradigm. There is also a label for mental illness that is seperate that I can't remember. Where the idea of knowing something that others don't is intoxicating and is in regards to conspiracies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#The_Belief_Disconfirmation_Paradigm

Edit: Oh yes, this goes without saying. Although it can be argued most people suffer from this at one point or another, the term refers to those who suffer greatly from this. Although it might not be so bad if you are the King of your own world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusions_of_grandeur#Symptoms


Here is a letter written by a radio host down in Florida. They had Hoagland on as a science expert but claimed he kept demanding money, wanted more control, and wanted to dictate the show's contents.

http://www.gpposner.com/reply_Harder.html

[expat]

Hoagland has no degree, no membership in scientific associations, no patents. By all the usual tests, he's not a scientist although he has the nerve to refer to himself as such (Dark Mission, p.224).

[coaster]

paid NASA shill^