Art Bell

[Value Of Pi]

Why Germany would elect someone from the former East Germany to head the government is beyond me.


My guess would have been 'democracy'.  Modern democratic Japan isn't continuing her ongoing wars with her neighbors either

With the Europeans, the problem has always been about nations with directly competing interests, tenuous alliances and a bad habit of spilling blood over their differences. So, economic and political interdependence with a shared European identity helps to keep them from making the same mistakes yet again. That's the idea, anyway.

Any trend towards nationalism is very possibly a return to the past, which most Europeans want to avoid. Britain's always been a special case, both part of and not part of Europe, so the British have a different perspective. Japan, like the UK, has the benefit of being an island nation. They each have a giant moat around them.

[PB the Deplorable]

With the Europeans, the problem has always been about nations with directly competing interests, tenuous alliances and a bad habit of spilling blood over their differences. So, economic and political interdependence with a shared European identity helps to keep them from making the same mistakes yet again. That's the idea, anyway.

Any trend towards nationalism is very possibly a return to the past, which most Europeans want to avoid. Britain's always been a special case, both part of and not part of Europe, so the British have a different perspective. Japan, like the UK, has the benefit of being an island nation. They each have a giant moat around them.

I understand the idea, I'm just not sure it's accurate.  Those rushing us towards a one-world government are going to use every means at their disposal to do so, to use any argument to try to convince people it's in their own best interest.  Different arguments will appeal to different people.

I'm not convinced economic interdependence rules out war either.  Democratic elected governments are far less likely to go to war with each other than those ruled by dictatorship.

[PB the Deplorable]

As far as the EU government elites and their supporters frothing about about the vote, it's quite telling they are using the same tactics and arguments the Left here uses against us - scare tactics, threatening the UK unless they knuckle under, accusing them of 'racism', of being 'stupid', 'backwards', 'selfish'...

Before the huge empires were swept away in WWI, there were any number of violent rebellions within each.  Being economically interdependent within the empire didn't end war, people want to make their own decisions and to not to be dictated to by a far away government who doesn't understand them or make decisions that are in their best interests. 

Those 13 colonies were certainly economically interdependent on England, and had a great deal to lose.  History is full of examples, but what we're not seeing is democracies going to war against each other.  A 'United' Europe, run out of Brussels, is a step or two away from democracy.  Who are we most at risk of going to war with - democratic Canada, Japan, western Europe, or undemocratic China?

Just my observations

[Lilith]

As far as the EU government elites and their supporters frothing about about the vote, it's quite telling they are using the same tactics and arguments the Left here uses against us - scare tactics, threatening the UK unless they knuckle under, accusing them of 'racism', of being 'stupid', 'backwards', 'selfish'...

Before the huge empires were swept away in WWI, there were any number of violent rebellions within each.  Being economically interdependent within the empire didn't end war, people want to make their own decisions and to not to be dictated to by a far away government who doesn't understand them or make decisions that are in their best interests. 

Those 13 colonies were certainly economically interdependent on England, and had a great deal to lose.  History is full of examples, but what we're not seeing is democracies going to war against each other.  A 'United' Europe, run out of Brussels, is a step or two away from democracy.  Who are we most at risk of going to war with - democratic Canada, Japan, western Europe, or undemocratic China?

Just my observations

I kind of like this representation of the situation.

[ItsOver]

As far as the EU government elites and their supporters frothing about about the vote, it's quite telling they are using the same tactics and arguments the Left here uses against us - scare tactics, threatening the UK unless they knuckle under, accusing them of 'racism', of being 'stupid', 'backwards', 'selfish'...

Before the huge empires were swept away in WWI, there were any number of violent rebellions within each.  Being economically interdependent within the empire didn't end war, people want to make their own decisions and to not to be dictated to by a far away government who doesn't understand them or make decisions that are in their best interests. 

Those 13 colonies were certainly economically interdependent on England, and had a great deal to lose.  History is full of examples, but what we're not seeing is democracies going to war against each other.  A 'United' Europe, run out of Brussels, is a step or two away from democracy.  Who are we most at risk of going to war with - democratic Canada, Japan, western Europe, or undemocratic China?

Just my observations

Yes, they certainly love the Alinsky playbook.  However, I don't believe Orwell intended "1984" to be utilized in a similar manner.

[creepygreenlight]

I understand the idea, I'm just not sure it's accurate.  Those rushing us towards a one-world government are going to use every means at their disposal to do so, to use any argument to try to convince people it's in their own best interest.  Different arguments will appeal to different people.

I'm not convinced economic interdependence rules out war either.  Democratic elected governments are far less likely to go to war with each other than those ruled by dictatorship.

Yes, and with the rise of Nationalism (Trump) it seems that Obama is in full panic mode to push his globalist agenda down our throats as much as he can before leaving office.  I saw that today Obama is now talking about a "North American Alliance" which will combine America, Mexico, Canada.  I guess now it makes sense why Obama is so adamant about flooding the USA with Mexican immigrants.

These globalist fucks don't get it yet, citizens of sovereign countries have had enough.

[PB the Deplorable]

As far as security, being NATO allies is already there to put the damper on any wars between them. 

The EU was supposed to be about knocking down economic barriers, but that turned out to just be the carrot for the real goal - a non-democratic, single European state, run by the elites. 

[SredniVashtar]

As far as the EU government elites and their supporters frothing about about the vote, it's quite telling they are using the same tactics and arguments the Left here uses against us - scare tactics, threatening the UK unless they knuckle under, accusing them of 'racism', of being 'stupid', 'backwards', 'selfish'...

I think people voted  for the wrong reasons, mainly immigration, without realising the implications. As Boris running  scared demonstrated today, nobody really knows what they are doing or what the future holds.  People  took the benefits of the EU for granted, and  we are now being held hostage by people who are influenced  mainly by xenophobia. We had so many opt-outs with the EU anyway, we had our own bespoke deal, and we have decided to chuck it all away.

Before the huge empires were swept away in WWI, there were any number of violent rebellions within each.  Being economically interdependent within the empire didn't end war, people want to make their own decisions and to not to be dictated to by a far away government who doesn't understand them or make decisions that are in their best interests. 

The conditions of empire  were such that you had one country that was running the show, and then vassal states that were there  to supply the master with raw materials, usually. I don't call that interdependence when it's one group being exploited by another.  If you have two or more countries who have a mutually beneficial relationship then that's quite another matter, which was what the EU is about, more or less. That's not to say that there aren't problems, there are, but we will be worse off being outside that system now. If it ever actually happens, which is not a foregone conclusion.

Those 13 colonies were certainly economically interdependent on England, and had a great deal to lose.  History is full of examples, but what we're not seeing is democracies going to war against each other.  A 'United' Europe, run out of Brussels, is a step or two away from democracy.  Who are we most at risk of going to war with - democratic Canada, Japan, western Europe, or undemocratic China?

I'd say that the 13  colonies saw the value of their raw materials and decided to alienate them for their own use, rather than send them to a faraway land they didn't need any more. After a certain point you can't keep a country in a state of subjection unless you sink a lot of resources into military action.  In the end people usually give up and try to make the best of these ex-colonies, as the UK does with the Commonwealth.

Although Europe has a lot of it that isn't democratic, I don't think the  UK can really moan  too much. Our head of state is unelected, the second chamber - the equivalent of your Senate - the House of Lords is composed  of hereditary peers and political appointees. We don't have a tradition of electing many public positions  either - we tried electing people to police authorities a few years ago and the  turnout was tiny. The  majority of people only pay attention to the general election,  if that, and worrying about the democratic nature of the EU isn't a major concern for the average man on the street. At least not over here anyway.

[COguy]

Jesus Christ dude, you going to let that poster pimp you out over a compliment?

Get a fucking back bone.

Huh?

I saw nothing to get worked up over. Nor did I feel insulted.

[COguy]

He's the biggest kuk here, for sure.

Why?

[COguy]

You could tell me who killed Kennedy, you gap-jawed idiot, lol

The Israelis. He cut them off for their nuclear weapons program. He died soon after. Funding was quickly restored and never questioned since.

[TigerLily]

Another rare cryptid

Bird dog?

[ItsOver]

"Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk...."


http://youtu.be/-5XnDjNGolA


http://youtu.be/AKtwlHV1-O8

[CornyCrow]

As far as the EU government elites and their supporters frothing about about the vote, it's quite telling they are using the same tactics and arguments the Left here uses against us - scare tactics, threatening the UK unless they knuckle under, accusing them of 'racism', of being 'stupid', 'backwards', 'selfish'...

Before the huge empires were swept away in WWI, there were any number of violent rebellions within each.  Being economically interdependent within the empire didn't end war, people want to make their own decisions and to not to be dictated to by a far away government who doesn't understand them or make decisions that are in their best interests. 

Those 13 colonies were certainly economically interdependent on England, and had a great deal to lose.  History is full of examples, but what we're not seeing is democracies going to war against each other.  A 'United' Europe, run out of Brussels, is a step or two away from democracy.  Who are we most at risk of going to war with - democratic Canada, Japan, western Europe, or undemocratic China?

Just my observations

Sometimes a common enemy unites strange bedfellows.  I don't think Russia was wrong in bombing ISIS oil fields, something we could not or would not do.  There certainly are bumps along the road, but it might be the best for all if we form such coalitions.  I would rather see Russia selling oil than the Saudis, frankly.  I'd really rather that no one needed oil. 

[TigerLily]

I think people voted  for the wrong reasons, mainly immigration, without realising the implications. As Boris running  scared demonstrated today, nobody really knows what they are doing or what the future holds.  People  took the benefits of the EU for granted, and  we are now being held hostage by people who are influenced  mainly by xenophobia. We had so many opt-outs with the EU anyway, we had our own bespoke deal, and we have decided to chuck it all away.


The conditions of empire  were such that you had one country that was running the show, and then vassal states that were there  to supply the master with raw materials, usually. I don't call that interdependence when it's one group being exploited by another.  If you have two or more countries who have a mutually beneficial relationship then that's quite another matter, which was what the EU is about, more or less. That's not to say that there aren't problems, there are, but we will be worse off being outside that system now. If it ever actually happens, which is not a foregone conclusion.

I'd say that the 13  colonies saw the value of their raw materials and decided to alienate them for their own use, rather than send them to a faraway land they didn't need any more. After a certain point you can't keep a country in a state of subjection unless you sink a lot of resources into military action.  In the end people usually give up and try to make the best of these ex-colonies, as the UK does with the Commonwealth.

Although Europe has a lot of it that isn't democratic, I don't think the  UK can really moan  too much. Our head of state is unelected, the second chamber - the equivalent of your Senate - the House of Lords is composed  of hereditary peers and political appointees. We don't have a tradition of electing many public positions  either - we tried electing people to police authorities a few years ago and the  turnout was tiny. The  majority of people only pay attention to the general election,  if that, and worrying about the democratic nature of the EU isn't a major concern for the average man on the street. At least not over here anyway.

Very happy Boris dropped out.

[CornyCrow]

Yes, and with the rise of Nationalism (Trump) it seems that Obama is in full panic mode to push his globalist agenda down our throats as much as he can before leaving office.  I saw that today Obama is now talking about a "North American Alliance" which will combine America, Mexico, Canada.  I guess now it makes sense why Obama is so adamant about flooding the USA with Mexican immigrants.

These globalist fucks don't get it yet, citizens of sovereign countries have had enough.

Well, Mexico does not even reciprocate with US retirees just running across their border and settling in. 

[SredniVashtar]

Very happy Boris dropped out.

Yes, he was brought down by a genetic experiment. Prime Minister Gove is more than my sanity will be able to stand. Comfortably the most disturbed, and disturbing, politician of modern times.

Check this out:


https://vine.co/v/hgbab1H2LH7

[COguy]

I saw that today Obama is now talking about a "North American Alliance" which will combine America, Mexico, Canada.

Sounds great to me.

The three nations already work close as military's. A common defense pact would allow the US Army to take care of the Mexican cartels. Why expend treasure and blood in the Middle East when we can really secure or border?

I am pretty sure what really bothers you is the inclusion of Mexico. Mexicans are not at all bad people. Grew up as a minority in a small agricultural town in Colo. Like any group of people sure some are assholes. But most are proud,hardworking,kind people. Maybe instead of blaming them for so much we could instead try to really help them.

Or build a fucking useless wall.

[munbeam666]

folks
the MEETING is off....not futher explanation will be provide
unless i here from my fellow bellgabbers.  I was a founding member and well respected on
this board.
i am very important and well respected in the international busness comunity.
i no a lot of important, powerful people.
please, i am not just doing this for myself but for all you little people

let me no if you want me to continue with the meeting or not,
i will listen intently to your replies

bobo
lets make radio great again

Have you taken your meds lately?

[TigerLily]

Yes, he was brought down by a genetic experiment. Prime Minister Gove is more than my sanity will be able to stand. Comfortably the most disturbed, and disturbing, politician of modern times.

Check this out:

That literally broke my little tablet.  I had to clear caches and reboot.  Gove must have reptilian powers. Is he of royal blood?

Since trucker caps are not de rigueur in the Isles , I suggest embroidered derby hats that read "Make Great Britain Smart Again". That way you can get out the message and make a bundle.  I'm considering an American franchise

[Hollow Man]

Sometimes a common enemy unites strange bedfellows.  I don't think Russia was wrong in bombing ISIS oil fields, something we could not or would not do.  There certainly are bumps along the road, but it might be the best for all if we form such coalitions.  I would rather see Russia selling oil than the Saudis, frankly.  I'd really rather that no one needed oil.

Yeah, I'd definitely take the Russians over them. I fucking hate the Saudis. Hell, I'll take them over the Turks, too. What are we gonna do, go to war with Russia because they don't get along? Ha. They can kiss my ass.

[Hollow Man]

Very happy Boris dropped out.

Not a Brexit fan, I take?

[Mr. Fidget]

Anybody who isn't thinking that "the news" isn't a psyop mindfuck isn't thinking.

Which is funnier... a tough call... an Art Bell thread double chuckle!

I'm expecting Art along anytime now to tell us as a Libertarian leaning Obama and Trump supporter, he's just watched 200 hours of discussion on Brexit on CNN, and thinks the voters made a horrible decision

[Robert]

One thing she reinforced (which you have to remember when asking why the EU even exists) is her strong belief, shared by all EU supporters, that the EU is the answer to almost constant wars among European countries over the last several hundred years. They take that history very seriously over there, even though we tend not to.

You'd think they'd learn from the examples of the USA, Vietnam, Korea, India, and a bunch of countries in Africa that union can lead to war just as disunion can.  Sometimes you get a Roman peace, other times a piece of shit.

[Value Of Pi]

You'd think they'd learn from the examples of the USA, Vietnam, Korea, India, and a bunch of countries in Africa that union can lead to war just as disunion can.  Sometimes you get a Roman peace, other times a piece of shit.

The devil's in the details, as they say.

[Morgus]

I see X-Files actress Gillian Anderson posted a pic of her ballot on her twitter site last week:

[ItsOver]

I see X-Files actress Gillian Anderson posted a pic of her ballot on her twitter site last week:

No surprise there.  Most of the so-called entertainment industry is in the tank for statists. 

[Catsmile]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WY-tWsNKDY

[PB the Deplorable]

You'd think they'd learn from the examples of the USA, Vietnam, Korea, India, and a bunch of countries in Africa that union can lead to war just as disunion can.  Sometimes you get a Roman peace, other times a piece of shit.

The Europeans don't need to look far from their own borders, or beyond recent history.

How did Yugoslavia work out?  How many non-Russian states elected to stay with Russia after the Soviet Union broke up?  Did the Warsaw Pact ever formally end, or did the member states just walk away?

If the fascist elites want to sell an undemocratic 'United' Europe, run by them, they should probably come up with a better reason than 'security'.  This was supposed to be about knocking down barriers to trade, of course whenever given a tiny bit more power the globalists tend to grab much much more.  Right on schedule.

[PB the Deplorable]

I think people voted  for the wrong reasons, mainly immigration, without realising the implications. As Boris running  scared demonstrated today, nobody really knows what they are doing or what the future holds.  People  took the benefits of the EU for granted, and  we are now being held hostage by people who are influenced  mainly by xenophobia. We had so many opt-outs with the EU anyway, we had our own bespoke deal, and we have decided to chuck it all away.


The conditions of empire  were such that you had one country that was running the show, and then vassal states that were there  to supply the master with raw materials, usually. I don't call that interdependence when it's one group being exploited by another.  If you have two or more countries who have a mutually beneficial relationship then that's quite another matter, which was what the EU is about, more or less. That's not to say that there aren't problems, there are, but we will be worse off being outside that system now. If it ever actually happens, which is not a foregone conclusion.

I'd say that the 13  colonies saw the value of their raw materials and decided to alienate them for their own use, rather than send them to a faraway land they didn't need any more. After a certain point you can't keep a country in a state of subjection unless you sink a lot of resources into military action.  In the end people usually give up and try to make the best of these ex-colonies, as the UK does with the Commonwealth.

Although Europe has a lot of it that isn't democratic, I don't think the  UK can really moan  too much. Our head of state is unelected, the second chamber - the equivalent of your Senate - the House of Lords is composed  of hereditary peers and political appointees. We don't have a tradition of electing many public positions  either - we tried electing people to police authorities a few years ago and the  turnout was tiny. The  majority of people only pay attention to the general election,  if that, and worrying about the democratic nature of the EU isn't a major concern for the average man on the street. At least not over here anyway.

Yes, they're all stupid racists who don't know what's good for them.