Art Bell

[Value Of Pi]

Chronaut, are you out there, Chronaut? I demand an explanation. How come these all-powerful covert government spy agencies don't have the know-how to get into one lousy smartphone? How is anybody supposed to take all the government conspiracy theories seriously, or believe in the plot to control the Internet, if a judge has to order Apple to cooperate?

I know this is bad, but sometimes you have to get out there and face the music. Especially when the government can't even get the music to play on iTunes.

[Ciardelo]

Chronaut, are you out there, Chronaut? I demand an explanation. How come these all-powerful covert government spy agencies don't have the know-how to get into one lousy smartphone? How is anybody supposed to take all the government conspiracy theories seriously, or believe in the plot to control the Internet, if a judge has to order Apple to cooperate?

I know this is bad, but sometimes you have to get out there and face the music. Especially when the government can't even get the music to play on iTunes.

?

[Ciardelo]

You're the same guy who wanted to argue about Valentines Day ads right? lol

[Jackstar]

How come these all-powerful covert government spy agencies don't have the know-how to get into one lousy smartphone?

Because the story is propaganda bullshit. Duh. Whose kid are you?

[Chronaut]

?

Yeah, me too:  wtf?

Chronaut, are you out there, Chronaut? I demand an explanation. How come these all-powerful covert government spy agencies don't have the know-how to get into one lousy smartphone? How is anybody supposed to take all the government conspiracy theories seriously, or believe in the plot to control the Internet, if a judge has to order Apple to cooperate?

I know this is bad, but sometimes you have to get out there and face the music. Especially when the government can't even get the music to play on iTunes.

What an unexpected and inappropriate post you’ve made here Value Of Pi.

I’ve already provided ample evidence (credible reports and links to the relevant leaked documents) of actual covert government infiltration of the internet using paid shills to manipulate social media like facebook and chat rooms like this one, and now out of the blue you’re mocking the subject again, and carrying on about things that haven’t been mentioned on the board nor have we ever talked about.

Maybe Jackstar’s right about you; this is exactly the kind of weird noise I’d expect from a disinformation agent.  It reminds me of this video about the campaign to discredit anyone and everyone who calls attention to the creepy shit the government has been caught red-handed doing:

The Conspiracy "Theory" Conspiracy, Adam Green, 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuQTtw_nLoA

If you have any rational objections to the information I’ve cited, I’m willing to discuss it in a civil and sincere manner.  But if your only agenda is to make people who follow the facts seem foolish, then don’t waste my time.  Thanks.

Here are the citations I provided.  If you have specific rational arguments against it, then let’s hear it:

“NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court,” Jonathan Stemple, May 7, 2015
“Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont Democrat, said ‘the NSA is out of control and operating in an unconstitutional manner.’”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-nsa-idUSKBN0NS1IN20150507
 
“How Covert Agents Infiltrate The Internet to Manipulate, Deceive And Destroy Reputations,” Glenn Greenwald, Feb 24, 2014
“One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.”
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
 
“U.S. Military Launches Spy Operation Using Fake Online Identities,” Amy Lee, May 25, 2011
“According to the contract between US Central Command (Centcom) and California company Ntrepid, the software would let each user control 10 personas, each "replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent." The software would also be able to let personas "appear to originate in nearly any part of the world" and interact through "conventional online services and social media platforms," while using a static IP address for each persona to maintain a consistent online identity.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/online-persona-management_n_837153.html
 
“Exclusive: Snowden Docs Show British Spies Used Sex and 'Dirty Tricks,’” Matthew Cole, Feb 7, 2014
“British spies have developed "dirty tricks" for use against nations, hackers, terror groups, suspected criminals and arms dealers that include releasing computer viruses, spying on journalists and diplomats, jamming phones and computers, and using sex to lure targets into ‘honey traps.’”
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/snowden-docs-british-spies-used-sex-dirty-tricks-n23091
 
“Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media,” Nick Fielding and Ian Cobain, March 17, 2011
“The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.
The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities â€" known to users of social media as "sock puppets" â€" could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.”
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
 
“The Real War on Reality,” Peter Ludlow, June 14, 2013
“What has received less attention is the fact that most intelligence work today is not carried out by government agencies but by private intelligence firms and that much of that work involves another common aspect of intelligence work: deception. That is, it is involved not just with the concealment of reality, but with the manufacture of it.”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/the-real-war-on-reality/
 
“Controversial GCHQ Unit Engaged in Domestic Law Enforcement, Online Propaganda, Psychology Research,” Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Fishman, June 22, 2015
“Though its existence was secret until last year, JTRIG quickly developed a distinctive profile in the public understanding, after documents from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed that the unit had engaged in “dirty tricks” like deploying sexual “honey traps” designed to discredit targets, launching denial-of-service attacks to shut down Internet chat rooms, pushing veiled propaganda onto social networks and generally warping discourse online.”
https://theintercept.com/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domestic-law-enforcement-propaganda/
 
Wikipedia article about reporter Glen Greenwald:
“In June 2013 Greenwald became widely known after The Guardian published the first of a series of reports detailing United States and British global surveillance programs, based on classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden.[21][22] The series on which Greenwald worked along with others won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service.[23][24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
 
Leaked Documents:
 
The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/25/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new-generation-of-online-covert-operations/

Behavioural Science Support for JTRIG’S Effects and Online HUMINT Operations
https://theintercept.com/document/2015/06/22/behavioural-science-support-jtrig/

Cyber Integration "The art of the possible"
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/07/cyber-integration-the-art-of-the-possible/

National Initiative Protection Program â€" Sentry Eagle
https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initiative-protection-program-sentry-eagle

[Jackstar]

Maybe Jackstar’s right about you; this is exactly the kind of weird noise I’d expect from a disinformation agent.

I don't necessarily go all the way out on that limb here on this guy--he could just be acting that way because that's what passes for training in critical thinking in U.S. education today.

In either case, Value of Pi demonstrably acts like a corporate fascist shill. That's on record now. It's vaguely adorable.

[Chronaut]

I don't necessarily go all the way out on that limb here on this guy--he could just be acting that way because that's what passes for training in critical thinking in U.S. education today.

In either case, Value of Pi demonstrably acts like a corporate fascist shill. That's on record now. It's vaguely adorable.

That's my default assumption, but it was just a totally bizarre and unwelcome post to get after it seemed like we'd settled this yesterday.  I hate to think that sincere, well-meaning people could be so conditioned to reject the idea that our government agencies are involved in manipulating online discourse, that they can't even recognize incontrovertible evidence when they see it.

Troubling.

[Jackstar]

I hate to think that sincere, well-meaning people could be so conditioned to reject the idea that our government agencies are involved in manipulating online discourse, that they can't even recognize incontrovertible evidence when they see it.

[Value Of Pi]

Yeah, me too:  wtf?

What an unexpected and inappropriate post you’ve made here Value Of Pi.

I’ve already provided ample evidence (credible reports and links to the relevant leaked documents) of actual covert government infiltration of the internet using paid shills to manipulate social media like facebook and chat rooms like this one, and now out of the blue you’re mocking the subject again, and carrying on about things that haven’t been mentioned on the board nor have we ever talked about.

Maybe Jackstar’s right about you; this is exactly the kind of weird noise I’d expect from a disinformation agent.  It reminds me of this video about the campaign to discredit anyone and everyone who calls attention to the creepy shit the government has been caught red-handed doing:

The Conspiracy "Theory" Conspiracy, Adam Green, 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuQTtw_nLoA

If you have any rational objections to the information I’ve cited, I’m willing to discuss it in a civil and sincere manner.  But if your only agenda is to make people who follow the facts seem foolish, then don’t waste my time.  Thanks.

Here are the citations I provided.  If you have specific rational arguments against it, then let’s hear it:

“NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court,” Jonathan Stemple, May 7, 2015
“Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont Democrat, said ‘the NSA is out of control and operating in an unconstitutional manner.’”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-nsa-idUSKBN0NS1IN20150507
 
“How Covert Agents Infiltrate The Internet to Manipulate, Deceive And Destroy Reputations,” Glenn Greenwald, Feb 24, 2014
“One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.”
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
 
“U.S. Military Launches Spy Operation Using Fake Online Identities,” Amy Lee, May 25, 2011
“According to the contract between US Central Command (Centcom) and California company Ntrepid, the software would let each user control 10 personas, each "replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent." The software would also be able to let personas "appear to originate in nearly any part of the world" and interact through "conventional online services and social media platforms," while using a static IP address for each persona to maintain a consistent online identity.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/online-persona-management_n_837153.html
 
“Exclusive: Snowden Docs Show British Spies Used Sex and 'Dirty Tricks,’” Matthew Cole, Feb 7, 2014
“British spies have developed "dirty tricks" for use against nations, hackers, terror groups, suspected criminals and arms dealers that include releasing computer viruses, spying on journalists and diplomats, jamming phones and computers, and using sex to lure targets into ‘honey traps.’”
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/snowden-docs-british-spies-used-sex-dirty-tricks-n23091
 
“Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media,” Nick Fielding and Ian Cobain, March 17, 2011
“The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.
The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities â€" known to users of social media as "sock puppets" â€" could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.”
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
 
“The Real War on Reality,” Peter Ludlow, June 14, 2013
“What has received less attention is the fact that most intelligence work today is not carried out by government agencies but by private intelligence firms and that much of that work involves another common aspect of intelligence work: deception. That is, it is involved not just with the concealment of reality, but with the manufacture of it.”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/the-real-war-on-reality/
 
“Controversial GCHQ Unit Engaged in Domestic Law Enforcement, Online Propaganda, Psychology Research,” Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Fishman, June 22, 2015
“Though its existence was secret until last year, JTRIG quickly developed a distinctive profile in the public understanding, after documents from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed that the unit had engaged in “dirty tricks” like deploying sexual “honey traps” designed to discredit targets, launching denial-of-service attacks to shut down Internet chat rooms, pushing veiled propaganda onto social networks and generally warping discourse online.”
https://theintercept.com/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domestic-law-enforcement-propaganda/
 
Wikipedia article about reporter Glen Greenwald:
“In June 2013 Greenwald became widely known after The Guardian published the first of a series of reports detailing United States and British global surveillance programs, based on classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden.[21][22] The series on which Greenwald worked along with others won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service.[23][24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
 
Leaked Documents:
 
The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/25/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new-generation-of-online-covert-operations/

Behavioural Science Support for JTRIG’S Effects and Online HUMINT Operations
https://theintercept.com/document/2015/06/22/behavioural-science-support-jtrig/

Cyber Integration "The art of the possible"
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/07/cyber-integration-the-art-of-the-possible/

National Initiative Protection Program â€" Sentry Eagle
https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initiative-protection-program-sentry-eagle

You sound genuinely offended that I would ask you about this news development, Chronaut. Have you no sense of the gravity of this development? No understanding of the irony, especially for legions of Snowden fans and other government conspiracy enthusiasts? And, at long last, sir, no sense of humor?

Here I am, supremely disappointed that our vaunted security apparatus -- with astronomical sums of money and untold manhours invested in the latest, cutting edge information and code-breaking technology -- is unable to crack the security of a garden-variety iPhone and is forced to call Apple Support at 1-800-GO-FISH-FOR-YOURSELF and then wake up a bespectacled federal judge to get a court order. Not to mention the unbridled fear I feel about being blown up by terrorists while innocently drinking my Starbucks, all because of the government's obvious impotence and inability to penetrate a cellphone's security and reveal its secrets.

Naturally, I thought of you and our very recent conversation. Yes, I am putting you on the spot, but only because I would like you to consider *this* bit of evidence along with all the others you give credence to. And this evidence doesn't make the government look scary at all. To some of us, it makes the government look not scary enough. And that is itself a scary thought, n'est-ce pas?

Nobody's trying to make you look foolish (and it couldn't be done without your active participation, anyway). But try to see this as one of those watershed moments, when people emerge from whatever cult-like influences cloud their vision (or maybe, North Korea) and see the world through glasses not covered in some form of Bulldooky.

[Jackstar]

try to see this as one of those watershed moments

02. Become incredulous and indignant.
04. Use a straw man.
09. Play Dumb.
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions.
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic.
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions.
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents.
19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs.
22. Manufacture a new truth.


http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html


Vaguely adorable.

[Chronaut]

You sound genuinely offended that I would ask you about this news development, Chronaut.

I have no idea what you’re talking about, and honestly I could care less about some story about a cell phone.  The leaked Snowden documents make it clear that there’s practically no such thing as network security, online privacy, or a trustworthy popular social media platform.  Part of the problem with compartmentalization is that useful intelligence resources aren’t available to every agency that needs them, when they need them.  And yes, that should concern US citizens.

But I’m not going to waste any more time with someone who tries to characterize me as some kind of cult thinker, when I’ve offered all the credible evidence that any rational and intelligent person would need to see the logical basis of my concerns:

when people emerge from whatever cult-like influences cloud their vision (or maybe, North Korea) and see the world through glasses not covered in some form of Bulldooky.

/click

[Value Of Pi]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, and honestly I could care less about some story about a cell phone.  The leaked Snowden documents make it clear that there’s practically no such thing as network security, online privacy, or trustworthy popular social media platform.  Part of the problem with compartmentalization is that useful intelligence resources aren’t available to every agency that needs them, when they need them.  And yes, that should concern US citizens.

But I’m not going to waste any more time with someone who tries to characterize me as some kind of cult thinker, when I’ve offered all the credible evidence that any rational and intelligent person would need to see the logical basis of my concerns:
 
/click

You mean to say you haven't read the news, seen the news or heard the news in the last 24 hours? Sorry to have made that assumption. Please get the news (and it's big, big, big) and then recalculate before responding to my question.

EDIT:
Here's a link to get started. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35593048

[norland2424]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, and honestly I could care less about some story about a cell phone.  The leaked Snowden documents make it clear that there’s practically no such thing as network security, online privacy, or a trustworthy popular social media platform.  Part of the problem with compartmentalization is that useful intelligence resources aren’t available to every agency that needs them, when they need them.  And yes, that should concern US citizens.

But I’m not going to waste any more time with someone who tries to characterize me as some kind of cult thinker, when I’ve offered all the credible evidence that any rational and intelligent person would need to see the logical basis of my concerns:
 
/click

he means this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCTx6_sYGAU

[Chronaut]

he means this

The FBI is a step above the State Troopers, of course they don't have access to the NSA's classified and compartmentalized decryption resources.  Crikes, I wonder how many other Americans don't know the difference between law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

[Value Of Pi]

The FBI is a step above the State Troopers, of course they don't have access to the NSA's classified and compartmentalized decryption resources.  Crikes, I wonder how many other Americans don't know the difference between law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

The CIA and other spy agencies are involved in this case and have brought their resources to bear on the problem. No success. The government  needs Apple's help, thanks to the Snowden inspired security protecting this phone.

[norland2424]

The FBI is a step above the State Troopers, of course they don't have access to the NSA's classified and compartmentalized decryption resources.  Crikes, I wonder how many other Americans don't know the difference between law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

according to apple they themselves  cant even crack pass codes.

[Richard Groyper]

Yeah, me too:  wtf?

What an unexpected and inappropriate post you’ve made here Value Of Pi.

I’ve already provided ample evidence (credible reports and links to the relevant leaked documents) of actual covert government infiltration of the internet using paid shills to manipulate social media like facebook and chat rooms like this one, and now out of the blue you’re mocking the subject again, and carrying on about things that haven’t been mentioned on the board nor have we ever talked about.

Maybe Jackstar’s right about you; this is exactly the kind of weird noise I’d expect from a disinformation agent.  It reminds me of this video about the campaign to discredit anyone and everyone who calls attention to the creepy shit the government has been caught red-handed doing:

The Conspiracy "Theory" Conspiracy, Adam Green, 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuQTtw_nLoA

If you have any rational objections to the information I’ve cited, I’m willing to discuss it in a civil and sincere manner.  But if your only agenda is to make people who follow the facts seem foolish, then don’t waste my time.  Thanks.

Here are the citations I provided.  If you have specific rational arguments against it, then let’s hear it:

“NSA's phone spying program ruled illegal by appeals court,” Jonathan Stemple, May 7, 2015
“Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont Democrat, said ‘the NSA is out of control and operating in an unconstitutional manner.’”
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-nsa-idUSKBN0NS1IN20150507
 
“How Covert Agents Infiltrate The Internet to Manipulate, Deceive And Destroy Reputations,” Glenn Greenwald, Feb 24, 2014
“One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. It’s time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.”
https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
 
“U.S. Military Launches Spy Operation Using Fake Online Identities,” Amy Lee, May 25, 2011
“According to the contract between US Central Command (Centcom) and California company Ntrepid, the software would let each user control 10 personas, each "replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent." The software would also be able to let personas "appear to originate in nearly any part of the world" and interact through "conventional online services and social media platforms," while using a static IP address for each persona to maintain a consistent online identity.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/online-persona-management_n_837153.html
 
“Exclusive: Snowden Docs Show British Spies Used Sex and 'Dirty Tricks,’” Matthew Cole, Feb 7, 2014
“British spies have developed "dirty tricks" for use against nations, hackers, terror groups, suspected criminals and arms dealers that include releasing computer viruses, spying on journalists and diplomats, jamming phones and computers, and using sex to lure targets into ‘honey traps.’”
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/snowden-docs-british-spies-used-sex-dirty-tricks-n23091
 
“Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media,” Nick Fielding and Ian Cobain, March 17, 2011
“The project has been likened by web experts to China's attempts to control and restrict free speech on the internet. Critics are likely to complain that it will allow the US military to create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.
The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities â€" known to users of social media as "sock puppets" â€" could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.”
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
 
“The Real War on Reality,” Peter Ludlow, June 14, 2013
“What has received less attention is the fact that most intelligence work today is not carried out by government agencies but by private intelligence firms and that much of that work involves another common aspect of intelligence work: deception. That is, it is involved not just with the concealment of reality, but with the manufacture of it.”
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/the-real-war-on-reality/
 
“Controversial GCHQ Unit Engaged in Domestic Law Enforcement, Online Propaganda, Psychology Research,” Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Fishman, June 22, 2015
“Though its existence was secret until last year, JTRIG quickly developed a distinctive profile in the public understanding, after documents from NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden revealed that the unit had engaged in “dirty tricks” like deploying sexual “honey traps” designed to discredit targets, launching denial-of-service attacks to shut down Internet chat rooms, pushing veiled propaganda onto social networks and generally warping discourse online.”
https://theintercept.com/2015/06/22/controversial-gchq-unit-domestic-law-enforcement-propaganda/
 
Wikipedia article about reporter Glen Greenwald:
“In June 2013 Greenwald became widely known after The Guardian published the first of a series of reports detailing United States and British global surveillance programs, based on classified documents disclosed by Edward Snowden.[21][22] The series on which Greenwald worked along with others won the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service.[23][24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
 
Leaked Documents:
 
The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/25/the-art-of-deception-training-for-a-new-generation-of-online-covert-operations/

Behavioural Science Support for JTRIG’S Effects and Online HUMINT Operations
https://theintercept.com/document/2015/06/22/behavioural-science-support-jtrig/

Cyber Integration "The art of the possible"
https://edwardsnowden.com/2014/02/07/cyber-integration-the-art-of-the-possible/

National Initiative Protection Program â€" Sentry Eagle
https://theintercept.com/document/2014/10/10/national-initiative-protection-program-sentry-eagle

I've reported this post and you to G. Gordon Liddy.

[Auslandia]

according to apple they themselves  cant even crack pass codes.

They want Apple to allow an FBI created keygen. 

[Yorkshire pud]

They want Apple to allow an FBI created keygen.

It's a four digit code; 10000 permutations, but locks up if four wrong codes are inputted, whereupon it automatically deletes all the files and photos. Apple claim once deleted, they're irretrievable.

[Hollow Man]

The CIA and other spy agencies are involved in this case and have brought their resources to bear on the problem. No success. The government  needs Apple's help, thanks to the Snowden inspired security protecting this phone.

It may be Snowden inspired but the main cause is simple market forces. They're not doing this out of principle- they're doing it because it sells. It's all about the money. People demanded privacy and privacy is what they got. Now, when it comes to this guy, I really don't think most people could give a shit about "privacy"and think that since he's a terrorist he deserves none. There's a good probable cause argument for this I think, something you could get a warrant for. That would probably be the best tactic the feds could attempt. I think Apple's stance on this was based on what they thought was actually good business but I think they miscalculated. Most probably don't think terrorists should be let in "the club", so to speak.

That's all assuming, of course, this isn't just pure propaganda bullshit, which is what I'm thinking. Business and government have been in bed for a long time and business rarely has much of a problem in "cooperating", so I find this whole thing to be almost.. convenient. Too convenient. *shrugs* Call me cynical.  :

[DarKPenguiN]

It's a four digit code; 10000 permutations, but locks up if four wrong codes are inputted, whereupon it automatically deletes all the files and photos. Apple claim once deleted, they're irretrievable.

I find that really difficult to believe since thats not how it works. When you delete anything (on a smartphone/pc/etc) the data is still there but basically just doesnt register as being there. The computer sees a blank space but its really just a permission to use that part of the HDD if that makes sense.

There are programs that actually destroy the data but not by 'deleting" it, rather by overwriting it-

Depending on how much you have downloaded/installed since the delete you want retrieved, I could  retrieve deleted data in many cases with off the shelf civilan technology (freeware even).

I havnt followed this case at all tbh since im on a news hiatus this week but based on what ive read here, something doesnt sound right. I think this may may be an OP of some type to downplay what can be done and the fact that these backdoors probably already exist. Propaganda was recently legalized and we know how much we were propagandized even while it was illegal- Google and Apple are and have been in bed with the government (like most corporations) and would certainly go along with whatever narrative the government wants to spin.

-i'm just not buying this. I dont consider myself a 'conspiracy theorist' but a realist- I can even see the logic in lying about this and using this non event to downplay the breaches of privacy and the limits of tech and partnership with business and government. its good PR for everyone. It goives the illusion of companies which care about their customers privacy, gives the government the ability to hide a bit of its reach and will cause enough outcry that we may see laws ushered in to erode even more liberty...With the support of a good portion of people who are being manipulated.

I'll probably look into this in detail at a later date but I'm not buying it.

[onan]

I find that really difficult to believe since thats not how it works. When you delete anything (on a smartphone/pc/etc) the data is still there but basically just doesnt register as being there. The computer sees a blank space but its really just a permission to use that part of the HDD if that makes sense.

There are programs that actually destroy the data but not by 'deleting" it, rather by overwriting it-

Depending on how much you have downloaded/installed since the delete you want retrieved, I could  retrieve deleted data in many cases with off the shelf civilan technology (freeware even).

I havnt followed this case at all tbh since im on a news hiatus this week but based on what ive read here, something doesnt sound right. I think this may may be an OP of some type to downplay what can be done and the fact that these backdoors probably already exist. Propaganda was recently legalized and we know how much we were propagandized even while it was illegal- Google and Apple are and have been in bed with the government (like most corporations) and would certainly go along with whatever narrative the government wants to spin.

-i'm just not buying this. I dont consider myself a 'conspiracy theorist' but a realist- I can even see the logic in lying about this and using this non event to downplay the breaches of privacy and the limits of tech and partnership with business and government. its good PR for everyone.

I'll probably look into this in detail at a later date but I'm not buying it.

You're forgetting magic Sir, magic.

[DarKPenguiN]

You're forgetting magic Sir, magic.

yeah but these are Muggles we're talking about here. Damn muggles.

[Yorkshire pud]

yeah but these are Muggles we're talking about here. Damn muggles.

I was quoting; I find it difficult to believe too. Unless of course Apple really have developed an OS that can effectively self destruct the memory files if it's incorrectly accessed.  Only Apple will know that.

[DarKPenguiN]

I was quoting; I find it difficult to believe too. Unless of course Apple really have developed an OS that can effectively self destruct the memory files if it's incorrectly accessed.  Only Apple will know that.

Oh yeah man, I know.

I'm also sure they have a ready made response for this 'deletion' problem. They're clever people- I just see alot of red flags based on what i'm reading here and I'm not buying it. I also am pretty ignorant of exactly what this is about since i have to take a break from the news every now and again for stress and sanity reasons- Still, Apple and google (since this will no doubt affect droid) might as well be branches of a corporate world government and are in bed with just about everyone- theres a backdoor. This is smoke and mirrors imho.

[Auslandia]

You guys know this is political posturing right?

[DarKPenguiN]

You guys know this is political posturing right?

[flimflam384]

It's a four digit code; 10000 permutations, but locks up if four wrong codes are inputted, whereupon it automatically deletes all the files and photos. Apple claim once deleted, they're irretrievable.

So make 2500 copies, try four codes on each copy?  Run 'em all in virtualization on some high-test government cloud?  Schmuck office manager me can figure this out, I'm sure the FBI can too.

[Yorkshire pud]

So make 2500 copies, try four codes on each copy?  Run 'em all in virtualization on some high-test government cloud?  Schmuck office manager me can figure this out, I'm sure the FBI can too.

Copy what? How? The phone is locked. How do you access that?

[MV/Liberace!]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't read BellGab.

then how does he know it's a "cesspool of shit"?