Random Political Thoughts

[FightTheFuture]

Basically, you do Christianity 'lite'. Just cherry pick the bits that give you the supposed moral high ground, and disregard the bits that don't suit. It's why you have no come back when it's pointed out Jesus was a liberal or wouldn't advocate carrying firearms. You know they're both true, but because it would undermine the tenet of your posturing, you have to to ignore them.

Well, thank- you, Dr. Pudding, for putting to rest this horrendous inner conflict with which I have struggled for far too long

I'm  online now, matey, checking out sackcloth friar's robes!

[Yorkshire pud]

Well, thank- you, Dr. Pudding, for putting to rest this horrendous inner conflict with which I have struggled for far too long

I'm  online now, matey, checking out sackcloth friar's robes!

Oh I don't think you have any self conflict, not at all. You genuinely believe what you think.

[Lunger]

Faux is French, they're sociialists....

As for the rest. Yeah, I have people in my family too, who lived through the war, I had three great uncles and a grandfather that fought in it too. Your point? That you have some sort of gain on anyone else?

It isn't illegal to call Hitler a socialist in Germany; It's illegal to deny the Holocaust took place. But you show me how many in Germany think Hitler was a socialist...How many notable historians? You define socialism as 'evil'? So if it isn't, it's not socialism? You actually believe that?

You're still not telling me what Hitler did that defined him a right wing, other than the Left saying he was.

[Yorkshire pud]

You're still not telling me what Hitler did that defined him a right wing, other than the Left saying he was.

Well; He wasn't a communist if that's what you're implying. (I'll humour you)...If he was he wouldn't have had an autocracy. Because he surely did. You are aware that communist is the derivative of commune don't you? Incidentally have you managed to find any notable historians who concur with your dingbat opinion?

I know there are many more but here you are.

Synopsis

The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader

Totalitarian Regime vs. Dictatorship

Totalitarian regimes differ from older concepts of dictatorship or tyranny. Totalitarian regimes seek to establish complete political, social and cultural control, whereas dictatorships seek limited, typically political, control. Two types of totalitarianism can sometimes be distinguished: Nazism and Fascism which evolved from "right-wing" extremism, and Communism, which evolved from "left-wing" extremism. Traditionally, each is supported by different social classes. Right-wing totalitarian movements have generally drawn their popular support primarily from middle classes seeking to maintain the economic and social status quo. Left-wing totalitarianism has often developed from working class movements seeking, in theory, to eliminate, not preserve, class distinctions. Right-wing totalitarianism has typically supported and enforced the private ownership of industrial wealth. A distinguishing feature of Communism, by contrast, is the collective ownership of such capital.

Nazism

Nazism refers to the totalitarian Fascist ideology and policies espoused and practiced by Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist German Worker's Party from 1920-1945. Nazism stressed the superiority of the Aryan, its destiny as the Master Race to rule the world over other races, and a violent hatred of Jews, which it blamed for all of the problems of Germany. Nazism also provided for extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples into a single empire. The economy envisioned for the state was a form of corporative state socialism, although members of the party who were leftists (and would generally support such an economic system over private enterprise) were purged from the party in 1934.

http://remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html

Now run along and play.

[PB the Deplorable]

You're still not telling me what Hitler did that defined him a right wing, other than the Left saying he was.

It's called the Big Lie.

Remember back when Reagan was President, Big Media began referring to members of the Soviet Politburo as 'Conservatives'?  Same thing. 

If all a person knows is what they hear from Big Media, Academia, and Hollywood - and especially if they don't really think for themselves - they won't know any better.

These are the same folks that, when Racism and Segregation were no longer fashionable in their party and getting them votes, flipped and began insisting it was really the R's who were the racists all along.


In a fairly conservative nation like ours, it's the only way they can get freaks like Obama and some of these other Democrats elected.

[SciFiAuthor]

"Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state."

Now that's an interesting way to put it. A "state" is really just a collective of people. If you rephrase that by exchanging the word "state" with "collective" it no longer seems very right wing anymore.

[Yorkshire pud]

It's called the Big Lie.

Remember back when Reagan was President, Big Media began referring to members of the Soviet Politburo as 'Conservatives'?  Same thing. 

If all a person knows is what they hear from Big Media, Academia, and Hollywood - and especially if they don't really think for themselves - they won't know any better.

Rather than good ole boys with the gumption of plankton who think Genghis Khan (If they'd heard of him) was so liberal he became the originator of drop in centres for the homeless, poor and starving?

[Yorkshire pud]

"Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state."

Now that's an interesting way to put it. A "state" is really just a collective of people. If you rephrase that by exchanging the word "state" with "collective" it no longer seems very right wing anymore.

Sure, if you overlook the bit in bold. Communism is the collective not the totalitarian state, running the country. Mussolini was a Commie too then? Funny that, because he was hanged by the people (There's that collective again) from a lampost...

[SciFiAuthor]

Sure, if you overlook the bit in bold. Communism is the collective not the totalitarian state, running the country. Mussolini was a Commie too then? Funny that, because he was hanged by the people (There's that collective again) from a lampost...

The bold bit is just someone declaring that fascism is a form of right wing totalitarianism. A declaration doesn't mean anything to me. I prefer to dig into the meat of the statement, and in this case it really doesn't look very right wing as I illustrated.

Communism, like fascism, is just a good tool for seizing power. It taps into the class war and promises people a better existence at the cost of someone else. The actual ideology quickly becomes irrelevant, which is why it's generally not adhered to once power is achieved by the dictator or group of dictators that makes up a politburo.

You'd think after the events of the 20th century, people would recognize when they're being had by a politician seeking power by using the class wedge and the promise of raiding someone else's bank account to give the masses something for nothing. But, alas, the same old game is still played. Worldwide, we fall for it again and again. Thankfully it's a bit more toned down these days.

Mussolini was shot by a small band of armed communists and dragged into Milan and hung up while a mob threw bricks at the body. I don't know that such a thing suggests the intent of the collective as a whole, it simply suggests a mob. Otherwise Mussolini enjoyed great popularity, disturbing popularity actually, during his time as Prime Minister through his use of both left and right policy. If he hadn't jumped into bed with Hitler, he'd have probably ended up persisting on like Franco did.

[PB the Deplorable]

Sure, if you overlook the bit in bold...

Sooo, Fascism is right wing because it's right wing.  Got it.

[PB the Deplorable]

... You'd think after the events of the 20th century, people would recognize when they're being had by a politician seeking power by using the class wedge and the promise of raiding someone else's bank account to give the masses something for nothing. But, alas, the same old game is still played. Worldwide, we fall for it again and again. Thankfully it's a bit more toned down these days...

It is absolutely astonishing that large percentages of otherwise intelligent people will believe what government tells them and put their trust in a bunch of politicians.  Yet those very same people at other times will acknowledge that most if not nearly all politicians are self serving slime-balls, and that the government is incompetent, corrupt, and grossly inefficient. 

They look at all the various failed projects and nearly useless agencies right before their eyes, then demand we surrender more power to them, without ever even asking them to solve the problems they've already taken on.  And act all superior and get upset at anyone pointing any of this out.   I don't get it.

[SciFiAuthor]

It is absolutely astonishing that large percentages of otherwise intelligent people will believe what government tells them and put their trust in a bunch of politicians.  Yet those very same people at other times will acknowledge that most if not nearly all politicians are self serving slime-balls, and that the government is incompetent, corrupt, and grossly inefficient. 

They look at all the various failed projects and nearly useless agencies right before their eyes, then demand we surrender more power to them, without ever even asking them to solve the problems they've already taken on.  And act all superior and get upset at anyone pointing any of this out.   I don't get it.

It's only a theory, but I think there is a fine line between religion and politics. Deep down, the two end up tuning into the same thing within the human psyche. Like religion, once a person's politics are formed, they stick with it no matter what. A comparative few convert to something else. It's like the religious when they watch terrible things happen, they chalk it up to anything but God, despite God both having the power to stop it, and having known it was going to happen ahead of time. Likewise, the same disconnect happens when people think politically. A politician can fail miserably, such as Obama is currently doing, yet never connect that back to the party or even admit to themselves that the president is failing.

Then it all gets actively reinforced by the big lie you spoke about.

Unfortunately it's getting worse. Each year, politics start either pushing religion or acting like a religion. On one side, there's the uber-powerful religious right and on the left there's the cult of climate change. It's so bad that I'm no longer certain people can recognize step-outside-the-box free thinking anymore.

I'll let you in on what I'm currently watching. A few weeks ago, Pelosi used a new catch-phrase, "Job-Lock," to try to advance the idea that people losing their jobs or losing full-time hours due to Obamacare was somehow freeing them from something and enabling them to pursue their dreams. Well, it's a spin on putting them in the unemployment line in reality. Her PR people must be thinking that people are just dumb enough to buy it because it's spun as an issue of freedom from something. I'm interested to see if that happens and "Job-Lock" joins the liberal lexicon of catch-phrases.

[Yorkshire pud]

Sooo, Fascism is right wing because it's right wing.  Got it.

But you think it's left wing because you say so? Hmmmm, should I listen to you or people who know? Decisions. Which notable historiansfaculties agree with you?

[PB the Deplorable]

But you think it's left wing because you say so? Hmmmm, should I listen to you or people who know? Decisions. Which notable historiansfaculties agree with you?

Well, you've insisted multiple times that Stalin and Mao were also 'right-wing'.  You're not bothered in the slightest that these 'notable historiansfaculties' don't agree with you on that.

But you'll defer to them this one time on Hitler and use that as your evidence.

[PB the Deplorable]

The desire for a vast government with total power is the very definition of 'Left wing'.  The belief that government knows best and if we give them enough time, resources, and power, they will eventually somehow create a Utopia where everything is perfect and equal.

Despite all evidence that huge powerful governments end up murdering and impoverishing their people, who are powerless against them.

These True Believers insist it just hasn't been done correctly, or where it's been tried they gave up too soon, or enough money wasn't spent, or they haven't had the right people, or that they were on the right path but 'made mistakes'. 

Or, as Barrack Obama said, "we are the ones we've been waiting for".



There wasn't anything about the Nazi's that made them any different from the rest.

[Yorkshire pud]

Well, you've insisted multiple times that Stalin and Mao were also 'right-wing'.  You're not bothered in the slightest that these 'notable historiansfaculties' don't agree with you on that.

But you'll defer to them this one time on Hitler and use that as your evidence.

No, I've said that Stalin wasn't a communist. He wasn't, he was a fascist. If he'd been a communist he wouldn't have murdered millions of his own countrymen and women, because he'd have been equal. That's what communism is, no overall leader.
So again, can you list the research paper or notable historian that states (with slides if it helps you) Hitler was a Communist. (Because in Rightland; Commie, socialist, liberal are the same animal)..

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM) states: “The Holocaust was the murder of six million Jews and millions of others by the Nazis and their collaborators during World War II."[1]

In addition to Jews, the targeted groups included Poles (of whom 2.5 million gentile Poles were killed) and some other Slavic peoples; Soviets (particularly prisoners of war); Romanies (also known as Gypsies) and others who did not belong to the Aryan Herrenvolk "Aryan master race"; the mentally ill, the deaf, the physically disabled and mentally retarded; homosexual and transsexual people; political opponents such as communists, social democrats and socialists; and religious dissidents, i.e. members of Jehovah's Witnesses

Leftists[edit]
German communists were among the first people to be sent to concentration camps.[23][24] They concerned Hitler due to their ties with the Soviet Union and because the Nazi Party was intractably opposed to communism. Rumours of pending communist violence were started by the Nazis as justification for the Enabling Act of 1933, the law which gave Hitler his original dictatorial powers. Hermann Göring later testified at the Nuremberg Trials that it was the Nazis' willingness to repress German communists that prompted Hindenburg and the old elite to cooperate with them. Hitler and the Nazis also hated German leftists because of their resistance to Nazi racism. Many leaders of German leftist groups were Jews who were especially prominent among the leaders of the Spartacist Uprising in 1919. Hitler referred to Marxism and "Bolshevism" as a means of "the international Jew" to undermine "racial purity" and survival of the Nordics or Aryans (sometimes of all white Europeans), as well as stirring up socioeconomic class tension and labor unions against the government or relevant businesses. Within concentration camps such as Buchenwald, German communists were privileged in comparison to Jews because of their "racial purity."[citation needed] Whenever the Nazis occupied a new territory, members of communist, socialist, or anarchist groups were thus normally among the first to be repressed, including summary executions. [/b]An example of this is Hitler's infamous Commissar Order in which he demanded the summary execution of all political commissars captured among Soviet soldiers.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

Take it up with them. They obviously got it wrong, they should have consulted you...

[PB the Deplorable]

No, I've said that Stalin wasn't a communist. He wasn't, he was a fascist. If he'd been a communist he wouldn't have murdered millions of his own countrymen and women, because he'd have been equal. That's what communism is, no overall leader.
So again, can you list the research paper or notable historian that states (with slides if it helps you) Hitler was a Communist. (Because in Rightland; Commie, socialist, liberal are the same animal)..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

Take it up with them. They obviously got it wrong, they should have consulted you...

Whew, you must be dizzy after gluing all that together.

"That's what Communism is, no overall leader".   Well, that's what Marx said would be the ultimate outcome, but it didn't happen that way.  He was wrong about just about everything, so there is no reason to think he's going to end up right about that.  So let's put the dictionary down and look at the real world.

Before everyone can be equal with no overall leader, the people who resist must be murdered.  Need a big all-powerful government for that.  And that is what is so evil about the Left - they don't mind doing the dirty work before Utopia can be reached.  Of course somewhere along the way they realize what you don't - Utopia is impossible given human nature.


About the Holocaust Museum's comment.  That does not conflict with anything I've said - the Fascists saw 'political opponents such as communists, social democrats and socialists' as just that - political opponents.  The Fascists and Communists were competing to appeal to the same folks.  Owning the means of production (Socialist), and allowing private ownership but with heavy regulation and dictating what is done (Fascist) are not all that different.


As far as Hitler turning the Jews into scapegoats, go down to then next Occupy rally and check out the signs about Jewish Bankers, Zionists, World Control and all the rest..  Not exactly 'right-wingers;

[Yorkshire pud]

Whew, you must be dizzy after gluing all that together.

"That's what Communism is, no overall leader".   Well, that's what Marx said would be the ultimate outcome, but it didn't happen that way.  He was wrong about just about everything, so there is no reason to think he's going to end up right about that. 

Thank you! You agree then. So if it didn't happen that way, it wasn't Communism. Just the way a whole egg isn't going to be a boiled one, if it's made into an omelette. Just believing it is still boiled doesn't make it so. Likewise, Stalin reminding the peasants they lived in a Communist utopia didn't mean it was; It meant they were being deceived.

Before everyone can be equal with no overall leader, the people who resist must be murdered.  Need a big all-powerful government for that.  

No you don't. The French revolution didn't have one. Nor did the Russian one.

And that is what is so evil about the Left - they don't mind doing the dirty work before Utopia can be reached.  Of course somewhere along the way they realize what you don't - Utopia is impossible given human nature.

Ahhh, but you see nothing wrong with so called 'patriots' overthrowing your government (past present and future) using all those stashed up weapons and ammunition they need to make them masculine? I guess they're the 'evil left' too...

About the Holocaust Museum's comment.  That does not conflict with anything I've said - the Fascists saw 'political opponents such as communists, social democrats and socialists' as just that, political opponents.  The Fascists and Communists were competing to appeal to the same groups.  Owning the means of production (Socialist), and allowing private ownership but with heavy regulation and dictating what is done (Fascist) are not all that different.

Look; Get a grown up to read the quotes to you, especially the bit: "Hermann Göring later testified at the Nuremberg Trials that it was the Nazis' willingness to repress German communists that prompted Hindenburg and the old elite to cooperate with them. Hitler and the Nazis also hated German leftists because of their resistance to Nazi racism"

Then when it's been read to you, ask them to explain what it means. I've done my bit now on this..I'll leave it to others who are more adept at trying to plait fog, swimming in glue and other fruitless endevours.

[onan]

The desire for a vast government with total power is the very definition of 'Left wing'.  The belief that government knows best and if we give them enough time, resources, and power, they will eventually somehow create a Utopia where everything is perfect and equal.

That is so very short sighted. It was the left wing that first stood up against the military industrial complex during Vietnam. It was the left wing that finally ended that war. It was the left wing that took government to task and first brought forth the notion that the government was corrupt.

To suggest the left wants big government with complete control is no more factual than the right wants big government and complete control. If you think it is only the left, you clearly only have one eye.

[Little Hater]

I say that only nineteen angels can dance on the head of a pin. Not eighteen, not twenty, nineteen!

[onan]

I say that only nineteen angels can dance on the head of a pin. Not eighteen, not twenty, nineteen!

Hard to refute hard science.

[SciFiAuthor]

I say that only nineteen angels can dance on the head of a pin. Not eighteen, not twenty, nineteen!

19.5

[Lunger]

But you think it's left wing because you say so? Hmmmm, should I listen to you or people who know? Decisions. Which notable historiansfaculties agree with you?

So, you're tell me that Hitler was a Conservative who believed in:

Personal responsibility
Limited government
Free markets
A government that provides people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. 

Is that it?  Is that what Hitler was about?

Hitler was a socialist.  Plain and simple.  There is nothing right wing about fascism.  Fascism/Socialism/Communism is an ideal bought and paid for by the Left.

[ItsOver]

19.5

Hahaha.  "The data.  It's all in the data.  Look at the data!" 

[maureen]

19.5

  that's 19 angels and one cherubim?

[SciFiAuthor]

  that's 19 angels and one cherubim?

So long as the Cherubim looks like Hoagland.

Hahaha.  "The data.  It's all in the data.  Look at the data!"

Over, I haven't been listening to C2C. Has Jorch been having Hoagland on or has he been sent to the cornfield?

[ItsOver]

...Over, I haven't been listening to C2C. Has Jorch been having Hoagland on or has he been sent to the cornfield?

I rarely listen to C2C so much of my info is from BellGab or an occasional check of the C2C website.  Hoagie has been on C2C but it's my impression his frequency has dropped-off.  I believe he's had one foot in the cornfield since his his DM shows with Art.  Hoagie and Art had some interesting exchanges related to Noory, ones which I'm sure good 'ol Jorch was less than thrilled to hear about.

I'll have to admit I kind of miss the loon at times.  He should have run for office.  RCH can BS with the best of them.

[wr250]

I rarely listen to C2C so much of my info is from BellGab or an occasional check of the C2C website.  Hoagie has been on C2C but it's my impression his frequency has dropped-off.  I believe he's had one foot in the cornfield since his his DM shows with Art.  Hoagie and Art had some interesting exchanges related to Noory, ones which I'm sure good 'ol Jorch was less than thrilled to hear about.

I'll have to admit I kind of miss the loon at times.  He should have run for office.  RCH can BS with the best of them.

george was texting hoagie while hoagie was on DM ...

in any case haog

[SciFiAuthor]

I rarely listen to C2C so much of my info is from BellGab or an occasional check of the C2C website.  Hoagie has been on C2C but it's my impression his frequency has dropped-off.  I believe he's had one foot in the cornfield since his his DM shows with Art.  Hoagie and Art had some interesting exchanges related to Noory, ones which I'm sure good 'ol Jorch was less than thrilled to hear about.

I'll have to admit I kind of miss the loon at times.  He should have run for office.  RCH can BS with the best of them.

Yeah, I remember the Dark Matter episode with Hoagland. I thought Hoagland was crossing a line there, so I figured Jorch would say "You're a bad, bad man Richard C." and blink him on out there without so much as a turkey sammich to dull the pain.

I actually enjoy Hoagland's ridiculousness and will take him any day of the week in place of one of the health and wellness shows.

[ItsOver]

george was texting hoagie while hoagie was on DM ...

Ah, yes, I remember.  Hilarious.  I believe Art was talking about how to properly do a show.  Jorch was no doubt texting love and kisses to Hoagie.