Random Political Thoughts

[SciFiAuthor]

Jesus is why I don't have a religion or a political party.

[SciFiAuthor]

Well, let's look at who else is and was a 'Nationalist'.

The Dalia Lama, Gandhi, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, George Washington and the rest of the founders of this country, Lech Walesa, DeGaulle, Churchill, Nelson Mandela.  I could go on.

The point is Nationalism is neither Right nor Left.  There is nothing to link Hitler and the National Socialists to the 'Right', except lies and smears.

Good point except it's sort of outdated. If you're going to apply the politics of Hitler to political norms now--which is what you guys are out to do on both sides--you can't just ignore your own political positions as they are today. The fact is nationalism is not a leftwing policy now. They're globalists that want to hold hands and sing kumbaya while a koala shits a rainbow overhead. Whereas you, and I to some extent, view Russia with an eye of suspicion and we think we have the best country on earth . . . which is no longer saying much.

You guys really need to rethink this game of pin the Fuhrer on the Donkey or the Elephant. Hitler was a liar that would say anything or do anything to gain and maintain power. Thus, he'd do anything to appeal to the most Germans he possibly could by whipping up anti-Semitism in a country wracked with anti-Semitic feelings, or present himself as for the workers with slogans and bullshit, while at the same time practicing corporatism and giving his industrialist homies a shout out with Jewish and Polish slave labor.

Well, by the definition of your arguments, you see each other as having social motives behind your ideology. The libs say the conservatives are racists. The Conservatives say the liberals are socialists. Well, guys, Hitler wasn't either. He was a guy that wanted absolute power in the same grain as Napoleon, or Saddam, or Stalin, Mugabe, Kissinger, J. Edgar Hoover, Talleyrand, and would say or do anything, regardless of the politics of it, to attain and maintain that power.

Read your Machiavelli. Ideology is not the foremost thing on a leader's mind, by and large. It's power and benefit for themselves. So while you fight over the slogans and catch-phrases and wedge issue and talking points, the politicians game the system and machinate for their own ends just like they always have across the entirety of human history. We're actually, in a strange way, lucky that the modern world is so interested in ideology. Even the politicians are now. And they're not really all that far off from each other compared to past ideological battles. Thank Jesus that your battles aren't worth pulling out the guns and knives over, and don't let the wedge issues divide you so much. Wedge issues are just that, and while you in fight Boehner and Obama cut deals. There's a reason they can do that, it's because they're part of the same machine. Both of you should watch the hell out of your politicians and don't buy a word they say, because there are things going on among the college professors and thinkers on the left, and the old boy's business club that makes up the Republican party establishment on the right, that threaten the hard-won stability we now have. They are both out to destroy our prosperity, and they should be called on it.

[Catsmile]

Jesus was a liberal.

LIBERAL! Pshhh!
You mean a dirty commie hippie!
With the long beard, sandals, and robe, dirty hippie.
Handing out FREE healthcare, food and wine, commie bastard.
I'm uh good conservative Christian and won't let some dirty bastard like that tear down my 'Merica, by God.

[FightTheFuture]

LIBERAL! Pshhh!
You mean a dirty commie hippie!
With the long beard, sandals, and robe, dirty hippie.
Handing out FREE healthcare, food and wine, commie bastard.
I'm uh good conservative Christian and won't let some dirty bastard like that tear down my 'Merica, by God.

Oh, my. So ...bohemian.

[Yorkshire pud]

Sometimes it's called 're-writing history'.

Socialism is the government owning the means of production.  Fascism is the government allowing private ownership of the means of production - but regulating it heavily and dictating what they do. 

Workers' control is a term meaning participation in the management of factories and other commercial enterprises by the people who work there. It has been variously advocated by anarchists, socialists, Communists, Social Democrats and Christian Democrats, and has been combined with various socialist and mixed economy systems.
Workers' councils are a form of workers' control. Council communism, such as in the early Soviet Union advocates workers' control through workers councils and factory committees. Syndicalism advocates workers' control through trade unions. Guild socialism advocates workers' control through a revival of the guild system. Participatory economics represents a recent variation on the idea of workers' control.
Workers' control can be contrasted to control of the economy via the state, such as nationalisation and central planning (see state socialism) and control of means of production by owners as found in capitalism.

The Left leaning journalists, writers, academia, Hollywood and other opinion leaders of the day insisted the Nazi's were somehow 'right-wing' after Hitler broke with the their Soviet friends and as word of the horrors of the concentration camps came in.  It was a chance to distance themselves from it and smear their opponents here in the US at the same time.  The 'Progressive' Media is still perpetuating the lie.

Predictable; Anything you disagree with is written by 'left leaning' academics; what do the Jews think? The academic ones? Current neo Nazis would rip your head off if you said they were left wing, or are they really commies?

These Leftists were the same people that supported at least the early days of the Soviet Union, Mao's China, and Pol Pot.  Many supported them right up until the end.  Some are still visiting and championing Castro to this day, and Hugo Chavez until his recent death.  It wasn't that long ago they were supporting the Sandinista's, The FMLN, the Shining Path, Tupac Amaru, and FARC, among other Marist and Maoist groups in our hemisphere.

Would that be the same FARC that was formed and financed by the US government? Hmmm, I think it is. And when the CIA turned off the tap (to overthrow a democratically elected government), they went into kidnapping.

The reason it matters about the Nazi's and others is so we can recognize it when we see it the next time it comes along. 

Oh, you're right; They can be found anytime some religious thumping god fearin bigot starts saying their god is bigger than someone else's god. Or telling women who have a sex life they're sinners, or that homosexuals are sinners, or atheists are sinners...

[PB the Deplorable]

Jesus was a liberal.

Yes, there are entire books in the New Testament where Jesus advocated an ever larger, ever more bloated, ever more unaccountable government in Rome - from which an endless stream of intrusions into people's lives would flow.   He was always lying about his positions in order to gain power, only for his real agenda to be revealed after he was entrenched and in position to buy future votes with tax dollars.

Considering his stand on some of the other issues, many found it odd he spoke out for punishing anyone who had  job or a business with endless taxation, sent his followers into government to crank out nuisance laws for even the tiniest behavior he thought people should be forced to follow, and was constantly judge shopping and appealing to sympathetic judges to get any verdict he wanted if and when he couldn't get politicians, bureaucrats, or the voters to side with him.

It's true, Jesus never gave anyone a hand-up or a handout in his life - it was his mission to have the Romans force everyone else to do so then take credit for being 'compassionate'.  But not too much - he wanted keep the poor dependent on handouts he took credit for, ensuring they would always vote for him.

Dang if it didn't all work. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Yes, there are entire books in the New Testament where Jesus advocated an ever larger, ever more bloated, ever more unaccountable government in Rome - from which an endless stream of intrusions into people's lives would flow.   He was always lying about his positions in order to gain power, only for his real agenda to be revealed after he was entrenched and in position to buy future votes with tax dollars.

Considering his stand on some of the other issues, many found it odd he spoke out for punishing anyone who had  job or a business with endless taxation, sent his followers into government to crank out nuisance laws for even the tiniest behavior he thought people should be forced to follow, and was constantly judge shopping and appealing to sympathetic judges to get any verdict he wanted if and when he couldn't get politicians, bureaucrats, or the voters to side with him.

It's true, Jesus never gave anyone a hand-up or a handout in his life - it was his mission to have the Romans force everyone else to do so then take credit for being 'compassionate'.  But not too much - he wanted keep the poor to be dependent on handouts he took credit for, ensuring they would always vote for him.

Dang if it didn't all work.

[FightTheFuture]

I never fail to be amused by atheist liberals who try to weave the Son of God into their political arguments. Good old-fashioned comedy!

[Yorkshire pud]

I never fail to be amused by atheist liberals who try to weave the Son of God into their political arguments. Good old-fashioned comedy!

As opposed to right wing bible bashing bigots using Jesus for their political arguments? 

[FightTheFuture]

As opposed to right wing bible bashing bigots using Jesus for their political arguments?

Bible bashing bigots??

What the...(hahaha)?

By all mesns, please continue!

[Yorkshire pud]

Bible bashing bigots??

What the...(hahaha)?

By all mesns, please continue!

You're far too modest: Which future are you fighting? You taking it from Revelations?

[FightTheFuture]

You're far too modest: Which future are you fighting? You taking it from Revelations?

If you don't know, you better ax somebody!

[Yorkshire pud]

If you don't know, you better ax somebody!

Enlighten us.... I'm keen to know.  :

[Lunger]

Hitler was one of mine? Hmmmm. Is the suggestion I am a Nazi? Stalin wasn't a Communist, nor Pol Pot, nor Kim Jong Il Or Un, nor Mao. If they were, their countries populations and themselves would be equal, but they weren't.

The UK has a national education system, and health, as does France and Germany, as does Japan. Are you suggesting they're all Communist? Hitler said he was socialist; Oh that's that settled then! He told the Jews that they were going on their holidays too, he lied about that one.

It would be an easy thing to get offended Karl at it being implied I'm a Nazi, but only if a) you knew what you were talking about, and b) you knew what you were talking about. Technically that's one point, but it's so fundamental it's worth mentioning twice.

You still haven't explained how the rest of the world disagrees with you...Especially Germany. In your own time.

With all your faux hang wringing aside you haven't answered what defined Hitler as right wing.


You believe that Hitler was right wing because that is what you were told in your national education system.  People can't go around thinking that Hitler was actually part of the Left, because everyone knows that its the Left that does the most good - even though in reality they can only destroy.  See: Stalin, Mao,  and yes, even Hitler.  I disagree that 'Especially Germany' disagrees with me.  The younger ones might because they were taught the same as you.  Left good Right Bad! Hitler=Bad so he must be Right.  But if you listen to people in my family - the ones who lived through the war, the ones who got caught behind the Wall when it was over, they will tell you a different story - Hitler was a Leftist.  A socialist like all the other asshole mass murders of the last century.

Of course its basically illegal to say such things in Germany - - Which should speak volumes to you.

[Yorkshire pud]

With all your faux hang wringing aside you haven't answered what defined Hitler as right wing.


You believe that Hitler was right wing because that is what you were told in your national education system.  People can't go around thinking that Hitler was actually part of the Left, because everyone knows that its the Left that does the most good - even though in reality they can only destroy.  See: Stalin, Mao,  and yes, even Hitler.  I disagree that 'Especially Germany' disagrees with me.  The younger ones might because they were taught the same as you.  Left good Right Bad! Hitler=Bad so he must be Right.  But if you listen to people in my family - the ones who lived through the war, the ones who got caught behind the Wall when it was over, they will tell you a different story - Hitler was a Leftist.  A socialist like all the other asshole mass murders of the last century.

Of course its basically illegal to say such things in Germany - - Which should speak volumes to you.

Faux is French, they're sociialists....

As for the rest. Yeah, I have people in my family too, who lived through the war, I had three great uncles and a grandfather that fought in it too. Your point? That you have some sort of gain on anyone else?

It isn't illegal to call Hitler a socialist in Germany; It's illegal to deny the Holocaust took place. But you show me how many in Germany think Hitler was a socialist...How many notable historians? You define socialism as 'evil'? So if it isn't, it's not socialism? You actually believe that?

[NowhereInTime]

Yes, there are entire books in the New Testament where Jesus advocated an ever larger, ever more bloated, ever more unaccountable government in Rome - from which an endless stream of intrusions into people's lives would flow.   He was always lying about his positions in order to gain power, only for his real agenda to be revealed after he was entrenched and in position to buy future votes with tax dollars.

Considering his stand on some of the other issues, many found it odd he spoke out for punishing anyone who had  job or a business with endless taxation, sent his followers into government to crank out nuisance laws for even the tiniest behavior he thought people should be forced to follow, and was constantly judge shopping and appealing to sympathetic judges to get any verdict he wanted if and when he couldn't get politicians, bureaucrats, or the voters to side with him.

It's true, Jesus never gave anyone a hand-up or a handout in his life - it was his mission to have the Romans force everyone else to do so then take credit for being 'compassionate'.  But not too much - he wanted keep the poor dependent on handouts he took credit for, ensuring they would always vote for him.

Dang if it didn't all work.

Wow, now you're rewriting the Bible, too?  You are either the most creative person or the craziest, most isolated, deluded nut on the planet.

Would you care to share the Gospel passages where Jesus advocates for gun ownership?  Laissez-faire business practices?  Denying health care because of inability to pay?  "Lower taxes and smaller government"? His full throated endorsement of material wealth?

There was that part about "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" which I guess in Conserva-Snark really means "Why should I have to?"  Missed that in Sunday school.

[West of the Rockies]

Wasn't Jesus the first to say, "I got mine, now you fuck off!"?

[Yorkshire pud]

Wow, now you're rewriting the Bible, too?  You are either the most creative person or the craziest, most isolated, deluded nut on the planet.

Would you care to share the Gospel passages where Jesus advocates for gun ownership?  Laissez-faire business practices?  Denying health care because of inability to pay?  "Lower taxes and smaller government"? His full throated endorsement of material wealth?

There was that part about "Do unto others as you would have them do to you" which I guess in Conserva-Snark really means "Why should I have to?"  Missed that in Sunday school.

Not to spoil your eloquent roll N i T, but I'd like the conservative view about rich men, needles and kingdom of god.

[Yorkshire pud]

Wasn't Jesus the first to say, "I got mine, now you fuck off!"?

You heard that too bud? I thought it was only in my sunday school. And the bit about bringing Hades down on Mary Magdalen. Cruel bastard.

[FightTheFuture]

Not to spoil your eloquent roll N i T, but I'd like the conservative view about rich men, needles and kingdom of god.

Why don't you open a bible and  do your own research?  You  afraid you  might see something you like?

[Yorkshire pud]

Why don't you open a bible and  do your own research?  You  afraid you  might see something you like?

Afraid of nothing old boy. I went to sunday school,  looked around and quickly deduced that religious indoctrination was a stifling cruelty hanging on the shirt tails of something that was mostly supposition. Two lies don't make a truth thought I (jeeze I was only eight). I did discover the bible is full of porn: Incest, infanticide, rape, cruelty, judgement and murder. So not such a good bed time read nor a research document.

[NowhereInTime]

Why don't you open a bible and  do your own research?  You  afraid you  might see something you like?

My favorite is when Jesus opined in the Gospel of Rushton 47:17: "Oh, Father, Why should I have to bear the burden of the leper, the prostitute, and the hungry?  Why haven't thou informed them to pull themselves up by their sandalstraps? Why hast thou fettered me so?!?"
Oh, wait, that's not in there?  Then where did I hear this...

[onan]

I never fail to be amused by atheist liberals who try to weave the Son of God into their political arguments. Good old-fashioned comedy!

It never fails to amuse me how you claim to be a christian, yet never turn a cheek. You are quick to judge those with different opinions and do so with what seems to be a great deal of anger. In other words hypocrite.

My point is that there is so much vilification of liberal thought, by a few of you, that pointing out an icon of over 1.5 billion people is liberal. And that has nothing to do with increasing government... both sides do that very well. And it has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

[FightTheFuture]

Afraid of nothing old boy. I went to sunday school,  looked around and quickly deduced that religious indoctrination was a stifling cruelty hanging on the shirt tails of something that was mostly supposition. Two lies don't make a truth thought I (jeeze I was only eight). I did discover the bible is full of porn: Incest, infanticide, rape, cruelty, judgement and murder. So not such a good bed time read nor a research document.

Well, there you go. If you're not afraid, open that old book up and build on that Sunday School Foundation. I have complete confidence in you that you will be able to figure out the parable in question.

[FightTheFuture]

My favorite is when Jesus opined in the Gospel of Rushton 47:17: "Oh, Father, Why should I have to bear the burden of the leper, the prostitute, and the hungry?  Why haven't thou informed them to pull themselves up by their sandalstraps? Why hast thou fettered me so?!?"
Oh, wait, that's not in there?  Then where did I hear this...

Maybe....the voices in your head?

[NowhereInTime]

Maybe....the voices in your head?

Yes, the ones piped in from AM radio and cable news.

[FightTheFuture]

It never fails to amuse me how you claim to be a christian, yet never turn a cheek. You are quick to judge those with different opinions and do so with what seems to be a great deal of anger. In other words hypocrite.

My point is that there is so much vilification of liberal thought, by a few of you, that pointing out an icon of over 1.5 billion people is liberal. And that has nothing to do with increasing government... both sides do that very well. And it has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

Yeah, the whole, ''if someone strikes your cheek, turn and offer him the other''? That ain't me.

Plenty of mild-mannered, meek Christians out ther doubling as punching bags. God bless 'em all, but I just don't happen to be one of them. If that makes me a ''bad Christian'' in your eyes, well, I'll just try to soldier on as best I can with that knowledge in mind. That's the first thing.


Now, with regard to your second point. Why is it that when a conservative, or a Republican, or Christian -- what-have-you -- responds with equal aplomb to a post that directly challenges the core beliefs of the fore-mentioned person, they're ''angry'' or ''intolerant'' or some such other nonsense?

And for the record, as I have stated on numerous occasions on this very forum, I could not possibly care any less  about for whom you bang, worship or vote. However, I have no qualms with vigorously debating issues presented on this forum.

[FightTheFuture]

Yes, the ones piped in from AM radio and cable news.

NIT, do you see Sean Hannity in your dreams? Be honest.

[NowhereInTime]

NIT, do you see Sean Hannity in your dreams? Be honest.

Nightmares.

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah, the whole, ''if someone strikes your cheek, turn and offer him the other''? That ain't me.

Plenty of mild-mannered, meek Christians out ther doubling as punching bags. God bless 'em all, but I just don't happen to be one of them. If that makes me a ''bad Christian'' in your eyes, well, I'll just try to soldier on as best I can with that knowledge in mind. That's the first thing.

Basically, you do Christianity 'lite'. Just cherry pick the bits that give you the supposed moral high ground, and disregard the bits that don't suit. It's why you have no come back when it's pointed out Jesus was a liberal or wouldn't advocate carrying firearms. You know they're both true, but because it would undermine the tenet of your posturing, you have to to ignore them.