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Random Political Thoughts

Started by MV/Liberace!, February 08, 2012, 10:50:42 AM

Quote from: The General on July 26, 2012, 05:32:16 PM
America without an income tax would be far more prosperous and far more free.

Kauffman foundation/Thumbtack small business survey on a the best states for small businesses.
In general, states with lower income taxes were considered more small business-friendly.
(Links to sources at bottom)
Summary of data
A+ States and their income taxes
Idaho individual 1.6% to 7.4% corp Rate: 7.4 %
Utah  individual 5% corp 5%
Texas individual  0%   corp  0%
Oklahoma  individual 5.5% (or 5.3%?)  corp 6%


F States and their income taxes
California individual 10.3%  corp  8.840%
Vermont  individual  9.5%  corp  6.0-8.5%
Rhode Island  individual  9.9%  corp  9%


No individual income tax and their small business rankings
Alaska  (no data)
Washington    C-
Nevada  B+
Wyoming (no data)
South Dakota (no data)
Texas     A+
Florida   C

Limited income tax
Tennessee    B-
New Hampshire  A

One question here is if the federal goverment is subsidizing some of the costs of business (such as roads or infrastructure) at a greater rate than other states. I didn't have time to research that but I put a link to a good place to find that info at the bottom.


Links
1. Kauffman Foundation results (has an interactive map of the US)
http://www.kauffman.org/newsroom/small-businesses-rate-idaho-and-texas-friendliest-states-california-and-new-york-among-least-friendly-according-to-survey.aspx

2. Tax information for states
http://www.tax-rates.org/taxtables/income-tax-by-state

3. Federal spending per state (I didn't have time to research this)
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/fas-10.pdf


The General

I know that discussing same sex marriage is about as interesting as listening to George Noory interview Lionel Fanthorpe, and the Chick-fil-a controversy is old and tired news, but I typed this up the other day and posted it on facebook and I was overwhelmed by the response.   A lot of my friends are liberals (I live in Seattle) and I've been sitting by quietly as they bash conservatives and supporters of traditional marriage.  I expected a backlash of name-calling, but I was surprised at the civil and respectful response.  So I thought I'd share it here.  I'm not normally a 'wall of text' type of poster, so I apologize in advance for the long winded-ness of it. 

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TO MY FRIENDS: Please read this with a calm heart and a clear mind. I've sat and watched as many of you have joined in on the bashing of Chick-fil-a. I'd like to interject my own views, for those of you who may care to read them. The controversy began when Don Cathy, chief operating officer of Chick-fil-a issued public statements to the effect that, for religious reasons, he believes that marriage is between one man and one woman. I understand that many of you may find these views despicable, and I support your right to your opinion. I also understand that many of you would not patronize a business whose political views you disagree with, and I support your right to do so. But I'd like to remind you that probably half of the businesses that you patronize have the same views. I'd also remind you that our president has said the same thing in the past, and suffered no such backlash. I'd like to remind you that most of our politicians feel the same way, and you vote for them. I'd also like to point out the dictionary on your shelf which likely says a similar thing. The dictionary I have here states that marriage is "a legally accepted relationship between a woman and a man in which they live as husband and wife." You may find the bible to be objectionable, but shall we also burn the dictionary as a hate book?

If a business refused to hire or serve someone because of their sexual orientation, I would join you in reprimanding that business. That kind of behavior is not only unacceptable, it is also illegal. That, however, is not what Chick-fil-a has done. If you really are outraged at the treatment of homosexuals, may I suggest that you turn your attention to those who advocate their being put to death? Some religions of the world and some countries actually execute homosexuals. May I suggest that your time and energy may be better used? Or do some religions get a pass while other more tolerant religions are put on trial?

To define marriage as between a man and a woman is not new. It is not revolutionary. Your view that we should redefine marriage to include those of the same sex actually is new, and is a revolutionary concept in our society. Please do not act as though everyone should automatically agree with you just because you believe compassion to be on your side. Our society has always reserved the right to place limits on who can marry and who cannot. There are age limits, number limits, and currently gender limits. Please also understand that those who wish to preserve marriage as male/female are not necessarily bigots. If you wish to change the hearts and minds of those with whom you disagree, perhaps making succinct and persuasive arguments for your views would be more effective than simply demonizing your opposition.

The first amendment guarantees our right to free speech. I agree with the sentiments of Voltaire when he said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Unfortunately, we have reached a point in America where this has been replaced by another sentiment: "I disagree with you, therefore I will call you names, try to ruin you financially, attack your reputation, drag you through the mud, and hopefully destroy you." A private citizen, church, or business has just as much right to their opinion as you have to yours. Don't forget that. And until we hammer this issue out either at the ballot box or in the courts, wouldn't it be nice if we could all tone down the rhetoric a little bit and respect each other's views?

onan

Quote from: The General on August 05, 2012, 02:46:26 AM
A private citizen, church, or business has just as much right to their opinion as you have to yours. Don't forget that. And until we hammer this issue out either at the ballot box or in the courts, wouldn't it be nice if we could all tone down the rhetoric a little bit and respect each other's views?

Yes it would be nice. On both sides of the fence, it would be nice.

Chick filet makes a helluva sandwich. Their corporate employees get a years paid college tuition for every year they work. Their regular employees get benefits that in some ways exceed mine.

And by the way General... keep up with the long posts... this one is your best yet... not to say your others aren't a good read most of the time.

The General

Quote from: onan on August 05, 2012, 04:01:17 AM
And by the way General... keep up with the long posts... this one is your best yet... not to say your others aren't a good read most of the time.
Thanks Onan.  Always enjoy yours as well.

b_dubb

the chickfilet nonsense should boil down to this: chickfilet has the right to support to support whatever charity they care to and you have the right to spend your money wherever you care to.

if you're protesting chick fil a then you're protesting against free speech.  which makes you a jerk

analog kid

It's all pretty silly, but the chick-fil-a guy is supposedly supporting groups that discriminate, and discrimination against gays doesn't seem to be mainstream anymore. I've never seen a chick-fil-a, but people have been pretty serious about their sandwiches. I've seen pictures of people camping out for openings of the chain in their area. Must be some tasty grub, whatever it is.

Whenever The Left decides we should all stop doing A and start doing B, no matter what A and B are, anyone that doesn't immediately fall in line is deemed a bigot, racist, anti-women, homophobe, any other term they can think of, whichever they decide fits.  Comparisons to Nazi's are usually not far behind.  Doesn't matter what the pros and cons are, reasons it may not be a good idea, personal views, something that would be best discussed before deciding, whether it's good for society as a whole, what the consequences will be, or even whether it makes sense or not, any of that.  Nope, they just assign the worst posible motive to anyone that speaks up.

I think a lot of people are catching on to this and aren't willing to just back down anymore.

ziznak

I'm getting sick of this chick-fil-a craptroversy.
<begin rant>
Why is it we live in a world where you have to wonder if the money you spent on a friggin burger has just been used to support some anti sausage smuggling organization.  As for the gays getting married, personally, I could give two shits.  If I want some chicken and waffle fries I'm gonna buy em I'm sorry.  All I can see from gay marriage becoming accepted is future bids from NAMBLA and various other fringe wack job fetish groups for legal acceptance.  People are going to be trying to marry their pets and real dolls watch!  Gays have been around since the dawn of time... it's ingrained behavior at birth not learned.  So, in a way I guess you could say it's natural but in another way I think penises are supposed to go in vaginas so it's not natural.  WHATEVER!  Maybe we should let people just do whatever they want and start marrying cars n whatever other crap they feel like marrying.  Marriage as an institution inherently means the joining of a man and woman right??? so if you're a man and a man then you can't get married you can be joined in some other word other than marriage to represent your union... Lets say that you've been "butt-plugged" in holy matrimony or something.  This new legal union can then have it's own laws written to dictate tax breaks and the such.  These laws and rights can be the same as the ones that pertain to marriage but we just won't call it that because this is the institution of butt-plugage...
<end rant>

ahhhh it all makes sense now.  Lets waste a lot of time, effort, and tax dollars so as not to stain the institution of marriage with the santorum (look it up) of the gays.  Sometimes we as a cuntry are just stupid.

analog kid

Quote from: Paper*Boy on August 05, 2012, 03:07:11 PM
Whenever The Left decides we should all stop doing A and start doing B, no matter what A and B are, anyone that doesn't immediately fall in line is deemed a bigot, racist, anti-women, homophobe, any other term they can think of, whichever they decide fits.  Comparisons to Nazi's are usually not far behind.  Doesn't matter what the pros and cons are, reasons it may not be a good idea, personal views, something that would be best discussed before deciding, whether it's good for society as a whole, what the consequences will be, or even whether it makes sense or not, any of that.  Nope, they just assign the worst posible motive to anyone that speaks up.

I think a lot of people are catching on to this and aren't willing to just back down anymore.

It isn't just "The Left" though; it's pretty much the entire free world, which is for the most part, to the left of Liberals in this country. The people in this country who have a problem with this, is the roughly 20% of hard-right conservatives who object on religious grounds, and these people are highly misinformed about their own religious doctrines, so why should anyone care what they think?

Eddie Coyle



    As usual, the "activists" on both sides have managed to annoy me. I hate "God Squad" types and "Queer Nation" types. The same old shit with the same old flies...but fucking Dan Cathy is the one I blame for this latest brouhaha. If he didn't realize a shitstorm would ensue, then he's unfit for his job.

b_dubb

I say the let the radicals on both sides play their games. I don't want anything to do with their bs

The General

Quote from: Eddie Coyle on August 05, 2012, 04:01:44 PM

    As usual, the "activists" on both sides have managed to annoy me. I hate "God Squad" types and "Queer Nation" types. The same old shit with the same old flies...but fucking Dan Cathy is the one I blame for this latest brouhaha. If he didn't realize a shitstorm would ensue, then he's unfit for his job.

Or maybe he's brilliant.  There's been a non stop, nation wide, free commercial for Chick-fil-a all throughout the media for weeks.

Eddie Coyle

Quote from: The General on August 05, 2012, 05:20:11 PM
Or maybe he's brilliant.  There's been a non stop, nation wide, free commercial for Chick-fil-a all throughout the media for weeks.
But the prospect of heavyset homosexuals showing up to have a "kiss -in" would definitely keep me out of their establishment. A month ago the probability of that occurring was zilch.

Quote from: b_dubb on August 05, 2012, 01:36:35 PM
the chickfilet nonsense should boil down to this: chickfilet has the right to support to support whatever charity they care to and you have the right to spend your money wherever you care to.

if you're protesting chick fil a then you're protesting against free speech.  which makes you a jerk
Try bringing a Big Mac into Chick Fil A and sitting down to eat it. They'll kick you out.  Supporters of free speech, my ass.

Quote from: onan on August 05, 2012, 04:01:17 AM
Yes it would be nice. On both sides of the fence, it would be nice.

Chick filet makes a helluva sandwich. Their corporate employees get a years paid college tuition for every year they work. Their regular employees get benefits that in some ways exceed mine.

And by the way General... keep up with the long posts... this one is your best yet... not to say your others aren't a good read most of the time.


Be interesting to see how they handle spousal benefits.  I'm guessing their corporate largesse dries up pretty quickly if someone tries to put their same sex partner on the company plan.

Any dude named Cathy should be more sympathetic to gay rights.

I laughed and laughed til i thought i'd die.  http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/chickfila.asp

this is too much like a house afire and everyone is fighting about who left the fridge open. i had to put it in my GAF file. 8)

onan

I won't be buying any chick fil-a sandwiches. It has nothing to do with whether or not gays should be able to legally marry.

I don't like supposed christians hiding behind religion while they break the tenets of christianity. I don't expect perfection; but I do expect a clear understanding of the beliefs taught by the new testament... particularly by the jesus fellow. For instance matthew 6.3 left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Luke 6.several: love your enemies. Cathy, not so much.


Great sandwich... fuck him.

Sorry to get so biblical... but the bastards that wrap themselves in the jesus blood better damn well be correct with it... again fuck him.

The General

Quote from: onan on August 07, 2012, 07:04:33 AM
I won't be buying any chick fil-a sandwiches. It has nothing to do with whether or not gays should be able to legally marry.

I don't like supposed christians hiding behind religion while they break the tenets of christianity. I don't expect perfection; but I do expect a clear understanding of the beliefs taught by the new testament... particularly by the jesus fellow. For instance matthew 6.3 left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Luke 6.several: love your enemies. Cathy, not so much.


Great sandwich... fuck him.

Sorry to get so biblical... but the bastards that wrap themselves in the jesus blood better damn well be correct with it... again fuck him.

I likely won't either, but only because I've never even seen one.  How accurately a businessman practices Christianity has no bearing on where I spend my dollars.  Well, unless the KKK opens up a BBQ joint.  I probably wouldn't buy ribs there.  Well,  unless they were really really really good ribs.  But I wouldn't tip. 

KKK BBQ 
We do Chicken White

analog kid

Isn't BBQ too ethnic for the KKK? I mean, black people invented barbecue sauce..

b_dubb

I'm a big believer in vote with your wallet. I don't like how WalMart told their employees to apply for Medicaid because Walmart just didn't have the financial resources to supply their workers with health insurance. I haven't spent a dime there in over ten years and will happily pay more elsewhere for same

How does the above not qualify as fraud and why haven't they been prosecuted?

The General

Quote from: analog kid on August 07, 2012, 10:25:15 AM
Isn't BBQ too ethnic for the KKK? I mean, black people invented barbecue sauce..
HMmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Well, it depends on who you ask.  It's like asking a Muslim and a Jew "Which of you invented falafel?"  That's what the middle east dispute is all about at the end of the day.  Two groups of people fighting over the same garbanzo bean.

Here in Oakland there used to be a band of thugs that were an offshoot of the 'Black Muslims'.  The main source of income, other than crime, was the Your Black Muslim Bakery.  It's gone now, they made the mistake of killing a black journalist people cared about.  He was looking into their organization and planning to do an article.

Everyone knew they were just a bunch of punk thugs, yet the various Oakland mayors, the local representitives to the state legislature and state senate, even the local member of Congess, gave them political cover, they even received 'loans' and cash grants when they ran low on funds.  Because they were a 'community institution' and had support of neighborhood (read: votes).

They sold plenty of baked goods out of their store for decades, there was never any talk of a boyott or anything else.  I guess they didn't ever say or do anything to upset the Left.

analog kid

I like the "5% Nation of Islam." It's a sect of which rapper Busta Rhymes is a member, that believes only 5% of Islamic black people in the world are worthy of Allah and heaven, and the rest of the planet is going to hell. Or something like that.

onan

Quote from: The General on August 07, 2012, 09:31:58 AM
I likely won't either, but only because I've never even seen one.  How accurately a businessman practices Christianity has no bearing on where I spend my dollars.  Well, unless the KKK opens up a BBQ joint.  I probably wouldn't buy ribs there.  Well,  unless they were really really really good ribs.  But I wouldn't tip. 

KKK BBQ 
We do Chicken White

Would you buy your chicken sandwich from a fundamentalist muslim? To a large extent, I don't care what your beliefs are as long as you do not judge me by those standards. Otherwise I do.

I guess we agree the kkk is perverse. So where does one draw that line? Blacks are ok but gays are not?

*sigh* it's complicated and I don't feel like writing an exposition.

BobGrau

Quote from: onan on August 07, 2012, 11:48:45 AM

*sigh* it's complicated and I don't feel like writing an exposition.

New forum header?

The General

Quote from: onan on August 07, 2012, 11:48:45 AM
Would you buy your chicken sandwich from a fundamentalist muslim? To a large extent, I don't care what your beliefs are as long as you do not judge me by those standards. Otherwise I do.

I guess we agree the kkk is perverse. So where does one draw that line? Blacks are ok but gays are not?

*sigh* it's complicated and I don't feel like writing an exposition.
I got no truck with Muslims.  Or blacks.  Or gays.  I'd eat a gay chicken sandwich.

onan

Quote from: The General on August 07, 2012, 12:12:38 PM
I got no truck with Muslims.  Or blacks.  Or gays.  I'd eat a gay chicken sandwich.

I don't think I meant to imply you did. I remembered a post of yours suggesting muslims were the predominant terrorists world wide (perhaps I am mistaken).

And believe me I have no desire to turn this into a debate with you. I think we are probably similar in our mindset here.

My point which I am going back to is: cathy is a christian hypocrite. He is making a whole bunch of money off of that. That annoys me. Making a bunch of money off of a good sandwich doesn't upset me in any fashion.

And everyone knows gay chicken breasts are necessary to make the best sandwich.

The General

Quote from: onan on August 07, 2012, 12:35:44 PM
I don't think I meant to imply you did. I remembered a post of yours suggesting muslims were the predominant terrorists world wide (perhaps I am mistaken).

Yes.  Muslims are the predominant terrorists worldwide.  I think that anyone that disagrees with this is delusional.  If Muslims do not comprise the highest percentage, then who does?  Or is it forbidden to notice a statistic like that? 

By no means does that make me think that Muslims are bad people in general.  MOST Muslims have good values.  It's the radicals that ruin it for everybody.  It is a religion that would benefit greatly from a reformation.  Their treatment of homosexuals, women, and non believers in some pockets of the world is abhorrent.  But I love me some halal food.  I am not anti-muslim, I'm anti BAD VALUES.  Terrorists using Islam as their motivation have bad values.  Average, peace loving Muslims that want to live in peace with their families and neighbors have good values.  That's all I care about.  Values. 

Quote from: onan on August 07, 2012, 12:35:44 PM
And believe me I have no desire to turn this into a debate with you. I think we are probably similar in our mindset here.

My point which I am going back to is: cathy is a christian hypocrite. He is making a whole bunch of money off of that. That annoys me. Making a bunch of money off of a good sandwich doesn't upset me in any fashion.

And everyone knows gay chicken breasts are necessary to make the best sandwich.

Let's use Ben and Jerry's as an example of the opposite end of the spectrum.  I find their politics nauseating.  I find their ice cream delicious.  I gladly give them my money because their product is good, and then they have the right to do with that money whatever they want within the confines of the law.  That's what I love about our country.  I support their free speech, I support the freedom they exercise in advocating stupid politics and the liberty they exercise in giving money to causes and organizations that are against my views.  That's liberty, and it's rare in the world.  I love it.  We should cherish that. 

I value liberty, and so does Don Cathy, and hopefully so do Ben and Jerry.  And I know you do too.

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