Racism - Remnant of the Past or Alive Today?

[The General]

All I can tell you is that I bet MV's eyes are rolling around in his head and his toes are curling up in his boots for what we've done to his Coastgab board today, having this ridiculous conversation about racism and what the definition of definition is.

[Marc.Knight]

it depends on what your definition of is is.

Bill Clinton It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

DOUBLE TAKE-- Excuse please, angels, am I understanding you to be saying there is no racism in the USA today?  Because if you are, I will immediately send you to bed with a half dozen American History textbooks from middle school and we will start talking about the importance of accurate history, for starters. 

A white person offers to send books to an African American to teach the horrors of racism. 

[RealCool Daddio]

All I can tell you is that I bet MV's eyes are rolling around in his head and his toes are curling up in his boots for what we've done to his Coastgab board today, having this ridiculous conversation about racism and what the definition of definition is.

MV is pretty tolerant of the folks here - I know he lets me get away with murder.  But I gotta say, I find it pretty ironic that the regulars who are posting in this thread would absolutely EVISCERATE Noory or Punnett if this very same thread topic was the subject of a Coast show.  I can imagine the comments - Noory sucks, he is mainstreaming the show, it is too political now, Ian never does paranormal shows, etc., etc.  But the same folks who would criticize C2C for it would gladly turn a Coast fan site into that which they claim to hate.  Confusing.

[Marc.Knight]

MV is pretty tolerant of the folks here - I know he lets me get away with murder.  But I gotta say, I find it pretty ironic that the regulars who are posting in this thread would absolutely EVISCERATE Noory or Punnett if this very same thread topic was the subject of a Coast show.  I can imagine the comments - Noory sucks, he is mainstreaming the show, it is too political now, Ian never does paranormal shows, etc., etc.  But the same folks who would criticize C2C for it would gladly turn a Coast fan site into that which they claim to hate.  Confusing.

This is why we have an "Open Lines" area for, "Topics that don't quite belong elsewhere."

[onan]

MV is pretty tolerant of the folks here - I know he lets me get away with murder.  But I gotta say, I find it pretty ironic that the regulars who are posting in this thread would absolutely EVISCERATE Noory or Punnett if this very same thread topic was the subject of a Coast show.  I can imagine the comments - Noory sucks, he is mainstreaming the show, it is too political now, Ian never does paranormal shows, etc., etc.  But the same folks who would criticize C2C for it would gladly turn a Coast fan site into that which they claim to hate.  Confusing.

I don't know MV, other than his gracious attitude with this forum.

I don't see disliking the direction of c2c as mutually exclusive to opinions on other subjects.

If this board is only about noory and the loss of Art, someday soon this forum will have nothing to talk about.

I mean this is in the open lines section? right?

Hell the worst that can be said about this thread is, it hasn't really opened any new ground. Hopefully though everyone that has posted and or read can at least take a bit of others perceptions.

Whats so bad about that?

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

On the face of it, she did not state that there is no racism today, simply that the quality of life for non-caucasians has improved a lot over the years.  I tend to agree, and would add that much of the so-called racial justice or equality movements today are nothing more than a means to seek artificial economic advantage.

I go one step further and see them as conspiracies to oppress minorities by keeping us in a ghetto of charity and special handling, instead of mainstreaming. And the deep cynicism promoted by the "anti racists" is a potent formula for impeding actual economic progress, which lies with Horatio Alger!

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

And BTW, MV created this thread, not me, so he's cool with it.

[RealCool Daddio]

I don't know MV, other than his gracious attitude with this forum.

I don't see disliking the direction of c2c as mutually exclusive to opinions on other subjects.

If this board is only about noory and the loss of Art, someday soon this forum will have nothing to talk about.

I mean this is in the open lines section? right?

Hell the worst that can be said about this thread is, it hasn't really opened any new ground. Hopefully though everyone that has posted and or read can at least take a bit of others perceptions.

Whats so bad about that?

Not complaining about the thread, sites like this are always better when the members branch out (while repecting terms of use, etc.) from the main topics.  I have just noticed a certain hypocrisy around the Noory bashing lately, and this thread kind of summed it up.  Not trying to derail the thread, I have enjoyed reading it.

[The General]

And BTW, MV created this thread, not me, so he's cool with it.

Oh, I'm sure he's cool with it.  It's just one of those topics like gun control or abortion that goes on and on and on and on.  I just imagine him wincing sometimes, like "Oh Christ in a car seat, look at this."  Rolling his eyes.

But I think Anagrammy started this thread, not MV.

[MV/Liberace!]

But I think Anagrammy started this thread, not MV.

Correct.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Marc.Knight]

Philosophical forum topics such as this one should remind us of Parisian philosophers winding the day away with intellectual meanderings at the corner café... 


- minus the café, and Paris..

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

Correct.

Sent from my DROIDX

The first post is mine. I thought only an admin could do that.

[Eddie Coyle]

A white person offers to send books to an African American to teach the horrors of racism. 

         AWESOME. First thing I thought of when I read that insulting post...a patronizing guilty white liberal always knows how a person of color should feel! :

[EvB]

There is a radio commercial airing regionally here advocating fair housing practices, i.e., non-discrimination against rental applicants.  All well and good, until you actually listen to it. 



Does anyone see the illogic inherent in this approach to seeking social justice?

I understand your logic - but I don't think I agree with it.  To know what i really think - i'd have to know who made the PSA - funded by whom - why - and whatever host of others questions that all brought up.


On the surface of it, though, it goes back to the Arnold vs the 97 pound weakling thing to me.


On Martha's Vineyard - there is an histrionically black neighborhood (I believe it is known as "the Oval") - i'm not talking about modern star-studded enclaves - this place has been here for over a cenetury and was built by educated upper middle class African Americans for vacation homes. (again this brings up the issue of back-lash.  there was a - sadly short - period in our history between the emaciation proclamation and the overt institution of Jim Crow laws.  Laws that were instituted for the purpose of insulting Blacks - like "you gotta sit at the back of the bus") When there really was progress in education, jobs and such for many many people who had not had that opportunity previously. the Oval was built during that time.  it's not utterly unique, but it IS rare. I'd like to see places like that preserved as much as possible.  That's not the same thing as asking any of the thousands of gated and primarily white communities in our country to consider their demographic, and broaden it.


That said, I have seen things like this taken to the absurd. Hurley anecdotal,and personal to me, but the quickest example i can come up with:


I worked for an agency that was having money issues.  the union was debating the issue of - were lay-off to come - would we stand for "last hired first fired" or something that took affirmative action into account. i said, as i so often do (being the one who often comes down so firmly on both sides of any given fence that i have a picket stuck permanently up my ass) "it depends - give me an example" - well - someone (who happened to be my superior - but not, technically "management" - oh happy day) got personal.  She told me that because she was a Jewish lesbian, and I a straight WASP -- that her job should be more carefully guarded than mine.



Lord how I wish she would have been more general.  I got THE CONCEPT - but damn, this woman had a BA and an MSW - all paid for by Daddy.  I had nothing but a few courses, a school loan on the verge of default,  and some experience.  My family was too large to support me. I was poor as a church mouse, and my job included housing.  Were i to lose my job, i would  be without a home OR income. SHE owned her home, with her partner who also had a good job.  We live in an area where Jews are common, antisemitism is rare, and we have the highest per-capita population of lesbians in the nation.  Besides all that, her comment was nothing but snark, since she had seniority over me anyway.  And, she clearly felt this PERSONALLY.  it was not just an easy example.


I'll leave you to imagine my reaction.


The point is, no broad legislation will care for individuals.  Sadly, it does not work that way. and, it sounds like your PSA example was asking people to act out of their own largess - not forcing anything on them, though I may be quite wrong.


i'm also quite exhausted with this - which is no one's fault but my own.  I made my general sentiments clear many posts ago but kept typing anyway.


My apologies.

[EvB]

like "Oh Christ in a car seat, look at this."  Rolling his eyes.

MV tends to say "Sweet Christ in a sidecar" - but you're close 

[The General]

The first post is mine. I thought only an admin could do that.

It looks like MV merged all the stuff associated with this thread over from the old one.  So anagrammy's initial post that started THIS thread is now #19.

[anagrammy]

A white person offers to send books to an African American to teach the horrors of racism. 

Nooooo, white person offers to send inaccurate American History books to anyone to demonstrate why children of the non-hero race feel excluded and insignificant.  And why so many children find American History boring.  Because it is hugely inaccurate and monstrously distorted--


To use a non-racism example, do you know why the Vietnam War caused such an outrage in the U.S. while the Korean War did not?  Really a simple question (and not one related to racism).  The answer was common knowledge during the Vietnam War; however, the question is never even raised.


If you are wondering, the correct answer is that it was televised.  Televised in an era when we still had free press.    When our own history conceals American human rights violations and genocide for the political goal that America appear to be heroic and pure, we sacrifice integrity for good public relations and have no right to expect respect for the values we trumpet.


Children alienated from their own country and a heroic personal history are more likely to drop out of school, feel like they can't win, identify with anti-authoritarian groups like gangs, etc.   It's a big factor that is ignored when our society talks about the education of minorities, which is why I brought it up.


Trying to get at the roots of evil rather than the leaves.


Anagrammy

[MV/Liberace!]

The first post is mine. I thought only an admin could do that.

anagrammy started the thread and asked that the posts pertaining to this issue be removed from the LMH thread and merged here.  since the posts in the LMH thread were older than the first post in this thread, they were automatically placed at the beginning of this thread.

[MV/Liberace!]

MV tends to say "Sweet Christ in a sidecar" - but you're close 

no, i usually say, "sweet christ on a popsicle stick."

[b_dubb]

racism is real.  everywhere.  and things are a lot better than they were 30 years ago

[George Drooly]

http://www.jimgoad.net/pdf/race/whitemanblames.pdf

[DoYouThinkItWasAngels]

Children alienated from their own country and a heroic personal history are more likely to drop out of school, feel like they can't win, identify with anti-authoritarian groups like gangs, etc.   It's a big factor that is ignored when our society talks about the education of minorities, which is why I brought it up.

I agree completely, which is why I mentioned Horatio Alger.

[JustOneFix]

racism is real.  everywhere.  and things are a lot better than they were 30 years ago

I wouldn't say it's better now, you just don't hear too much about it in the media.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't get called a "Mutha fuckin Honkey" or "You damn cracka". I encounter black on white, Hispanic on white racism on a daily basis. They can call me honkey or bolillo but I can't call them a roid or wetback? 

When I see a white person getting jumped by 6 blacks, or a Jewish person slamming Christians, etc that tells me not only is racism alive & well, but so is hate crimes.

Like I said in a previous post "Everyone is racist towards somebody, some are more vocal about it than others"

A friend of mine who is an extreme liberal told me once that she wasn't racist and she liked everyone. On our way to go see a concert one of those cars with the 26" rims and bowling ball paint job cut right in front of us and she had to slam on the brakes. What did she say? "That stupid fuckin nigger" I told her not only are you stereotyping, but you just showed your true colors.

You never know about people anymore. Personally I hold nothing back, I say what I want to say and political correctness be damned.

[anagrammy]

I wouldn't say it's better now, you just don't hear too much about it in the media.

There's not a day that goes by that I don't get called a "Mutha fuckin Honkey" or "You damn cracka". I encounter black on white, Hispanic on white racism on a daily basis. They can call me honkey or bolillo but I can't call them a roid or wetback? 

When I see a white person getting jumped by 6 blacks, or a Jewish person slamming Christians, etc that tells me not only is racism alive & well, but so is hate crimes.

Like I said in a previous post "Everyone is racist towards somebody, some are more vocal about it than others"

A friend of mine who is an extreme liberal told me once that she wasn't racist and she liked everyone. On our way to go see a concert one of those cars with the 26" rims and bowling ball paint job cut right in front of us and she had to slam on the brakes. What did she say? "That stupid fuckin nigger" I told her not only are you stereotyping, but you just showed your true colors.

You never know about people anymore. Personally I hold nothing back, I say what I want to say and political correctness be damned.

I used to say that until one day I forgot I was white (or more accurately passing for white since I'm actually biracial Hispanic).  I was talking with my work partner, an African American and he was telling me that he would not be in the next day because the boss wanted him "up to the house" to work in his yard. I was pissed because I am responsible for keeping the projects on track, right?  OMG, I said, he's using investors' money on his personal landscaping?  And besides, what are you, a Project Manager or his nigga?


The look on his face is beyond describing and so much blood rushed to my face that I for sure no longer looked white. 


Anagrammy

[haloedorchid]

I don't have very much experience with black/white racism, as Portland is very much segregated with black people mostly on the east side of town and whites on the west. There is, however, an fair amount of tension between whites and Latino people on the west side. I think it's mostly due to ignorance on both parts. The Latinos tend to seclude themselves in their own communities (one nearby town has nearly 50% Hispanic population). Some people complain and do the "learn English!" routine.

There are also a lot of white people here feel some sort of white guilt and overcompensate. A local town, for example, has a huge celebration of Mexico's independence day but does nothing for the 4th of July. Some people get angry, some feel entitled to it, and others do not care either way, like my Mexican husband and myself.

I have never been exposed to blatant racism, or seen it against my husband. The most is the passive aggressiveness, or backhanded compliments, I suppose. Like someone will express shock that my husband is from Mexico because he is educated and doesn't work a traditional "Mexican" job.

There is also a large Asian population where I live, and they seem to get a pass, as someone else expressed above. They are mostly educated, upper middle class and 2nd generation, so the accent isn't an issue. I still hear ignorant comments, though, and it makes my stomach turn.

I don't know what the answer is. I think everyone needs to try and put away their biases and view people as individuals, not representatives of everyone from their ethnic background.

[JustOneFix]

Haloedorchid-

It's pretty segregated here too, but I'll use this as an example:

There's a couple of bars I go to on a somewhat regular basis. One is a Country bar(I hate country music but the girls always look good) Every time I'm in that bar it's 98% white, 1.5% non white and .5% black. The 3 or 4 blacks that come in there, come in solely for the reason of starting shit by bumping into people, calling everybody white devils etc. Sometimes this problem takes care of itself by a bunch of rednecks kicking their ass pretty good.

Another bar I go to is a bit more mixed, but even here I notice more racism between the blacks & hispanics, as they usually exchange words with each other and sometimes a fight breaks out.

Alot of times you even have racism amongst the various 'genres' of people. The Guidos start shit with the rednecks, the rednecks start shit with the wannabe rednecks, this metalhead sits at the bar with his pitcher of beer watching it all go down.

[EvB]

no, i usually say, "sweet christ on a popsicle stick."

My bad.

[b_dubb]

Bill Clinton It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is

i think this is where the door opens for the Bush presidency.  people were so pissed off by Slick Willies bullshit.  if he had just owned up to getting some action on the side and said he was working through the issue within this family, then problem fucking solved.  but lying about it.  REALLY BADLY.  well that was just fucking stupid. 


the take away lesson from this? if you get caught with your dick in the intern, don't think you can bust a jedi mind trick on everyone.  cause it ain't fucking happening

[haloedorchid]

Haloedorchid-

It's pretty segregated here too, but I'll use this as an example:

There's a couple of bars I go to on a somewhat regular basis. One is a Country bar(I hate country music but the girls always look good) Every time I'm in that bar it's 98% white, 1.5% non white and .5% black. The 3 or 4 blacks that come in there, come in solely for the reason of starting shit by bumping into people, calling everybody white devils etc. Sometimes this problem takes care of itself by a bunch of rednecks kicking their ass pretty good.

Another bar I go to is a bit more mixed, but even here I notice more racism between the blacks & hispanics, as they usually exchange words with each other and sometimes a fight breaks out.

Alot of times you even have racism amongst the various 'genres' of people. The Guidos start shit with the rednecks, the rednecks start shit with the wannabe rednecks, this metalhead sits at the bar with his pitcher of beer watching it all go down.

Those people deserve to have their asses kicked. Even though the term "white devil" is cartoonishly funny.

The last part of your post reminds me of being in junior high and how the skaters hated the preps, etc. It's  sad that mentality continues in people who are above drinking age. (and what the HELL is a wannabe redneck? Lol)

I'm surprised no one has brought up that email circulating that depicts President Obama as a baby chimpanzee. It has two parent chimps dressed in shirts and a baby chimp with Obama's face photoshopped onto it. On the Bill Handel show they took a poll to see whether or not people considered it racist. Something like 60% of the listeners said no. That blew my mind.