President Donald J. Trump

[Kidnostad3]

I didn't see many people supporting Kathy Griffin. I think most people found that a step too far, as did I. Take it as it was, somebody out for attention. JC was about a democratic leader who was killed because he wanted to make himself a king. But (important point) the plot ends up killing the plotters too, eventually. Shakespeare was very conservative in many ways and the point of the play is to show how it was a bad idea to upset the order of things. Brutus is a noble figure but misguided.

Do you suppose they might have done the play without using a Trump figure?   Shakespeare's writting would probably hold up don't you think?

[21st Century Man]

I didn't see many people supporting Kathy Griffin. I think most people found that a step too far, as did I. Take it as it was, somebody out for attention. JC was about a democratic leader who was killed because he wanted to make himself a king. But (important point) the plot ends up killing the plotters too, eventually. Shakespeare was very conservative in many ways and the point of the play is to show how it was a bad idea to upset the order of things. Brutus is a noble figure but misguided.

That is true and you make a very good point.  Still, a lot of people that are going to see it seem to be missing that point.  They just want to see Trump eat dirt.  Best movie version is the '53 version though I recently saw the 1970 version and that isn't bad either.  I think the definitive version is yet to be made though.

[Dr. MD MD]

Fuck you! I'm busy lifting up cobblestones to throw at the police and you start in with all this peace and love shit. Go make your daisy chains somewhere else.

You're just doing what your Muslim masters tell you to do for fear of reprisal. We'd like to help you out with something we've been developing called MOAC (Mother Of All Cobblestones). It's the only way to deal with bullies. 

[21st Century Man]

Do you suppose they might have done the play without using a Trump figure?   Shakespeare's writting would probably hold up don't you think?

Then there would not have been a sales gimmick to increase exposure for the troupe.

[Dr. MD MD]

Then there would not have been a sales gimmick to increase exposure for the troupe.

They were just trying to be edgy. Hey, kids! You know what else is real edgy? Civil war. Did Shakes ever write about that? 

[21st Century Man]

They were just trying to be edgy. Hey, kids! You know what else is real edgy? Civil war. Did Shakes ever write about that? 

That was about 30-40 years later. lol. He probably would have written one had he lived after Cromwell.

[Kidnostad3]

Say you do wrestle me to the ground in some sort of senile death-grip, and I lost a few teeth, I'd still have more than you. It must get pretty tiresome gumming those rusks dipped in milk for din-dins every night. As for Australian women, I always have great respect for people who can grow a better moustache than me, and I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. As for that remark about Poms, we are almost drowning in geniality and politeness here, you delirious old goat!

I still have more natural teeth in my head than the average Brit 30-year-old and still open beer bottles and crack walnuts with them.  I agree with what you say about the graciousness and civility of the average Brit and you of course are are a glowing exemplar of these traits. 

[SredniVashtar]

Do you suppose they might have done the play without using a Trump figure?   Shakespeare's writting would probably hold up don't you think?

Of course, but plays get updated all the time. I'm sure the producers had an eye on the box office but people who see it as incitement to violence aren't all that acute. This is a Shakespeare audience, we're not talking about multiplex moron fodder , so I don't think you will get too many people saying assassination is a good idea.

[SredniVashtar]

They were just trying to be edgy. Hey, kids! You know what else is real edgy? Civil war. Did Shakes ever write about that? 

JC is about civil war, darling.

Apart from that, not really. Just Henry IV (1 and 2), Henry VI (1, 2 and 3), Richard II, and Richard III. Off the top of my head anyway.

[21st Century Man]

Of course, but plays get updated all the time. I'm sure the producers had an eye on the box office but people who see it as incitement to violence aren't all that acute. This is a Shakespeare audience, we're not talking about multiplex moron fodder , so I don't think you will get too many people saying assassination is a good idea.

Alec Baldwin made it a point to go see it after all the hubbub.  I guarantee you he was motivated by the opportunity to see Trump eat dirt and I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

[Spy]

[Kidnostad3]

Fuck you! I'm busy lifting up cobblestones to throw at the police and you start in with all this peace and love shit. Go make your daisy chains somewhere else.

Save some of the cobblestones for the owners of that building in London that went up in flames yesterday and some for whoever is responsible for enforcing fire safety standards.  This could happen in any big city and I'm not singlng out Brits for criticism.  At the risk of stating the obvious, there is either corruption or depraved indifference or both involved here and I'll be interested in what the investigation reveals.

[SredniVashtar]

I still have more natural teeth in my head than the average Brit 30-year-old

I hope you take good care of them both.

[21st Century Man]

I hope you take good care of them both.

So the average Brit has at most one tooth?  Denture manufacturers must love Great Britain.  lol.   

[SredniVashtar]

Alec Baldwin made it a point to go see it after all the hubbub.  I guarantee you he was motivated by the opportunity to see Trump eat dirt and I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

You don't see think he's ever gone to see a play because of word of mouth and press coverage? I don't know about him, but lots of people will go and see something because it gets talked about.

[21st Century Man]

You don't see think he's ever gone to see a play because of word of mouth and press coverage? I don't know about him, but lots of people will go and see something because it gets talked about.

Let me put it this way.  He is a very political person.  I can't say that I'm 100% sure but I am about 90% sure.  And yes, you are right on regarding the latter point but NYC isn't a haven of Trump support as we saw in the election.  I know a few supporters there but they are rare especially in Manhattan. Many living there don't have much love for him and I can't say I necessarily blame them.

[SredniVashtar]

Save some of the cobblestones for the owners of that building in London that went up in flames yesterday and some for whoever is responsible for enforcing fire safety standards.  This could happen in any big city and I'm not singlng out Brits for criticism.  At the risk of stating the obvious, there is either corruption or depraved indifference or both involved here and I'll be interested in what the investigation reveals.

When people talk about how good deregulation is, it's worth remembering what it can lead to. You get people more concerned with their bottom line than bothering with safety.

[21st Century Man]

When people talk about how good deregulation is, it's worth remembering what it can lead to. You get people more concerned with their bottom line than bothering with safety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ikbtsuSakI

[SredniVashtar]

Let me put it this way.  He is a very political person.  I can't say that I'm 100% sure but I am about 90% sure.  And yes, you are right on regarding the latter point but NYC isn't a haven of Trump support as we saw in the election.  I know a few supporters there but they are rare especially in Manhattan. Many living there don't have much love for him and I can't say I necessarily blame them.

If he left at the interval then perhaps you have a point.

It doesn't say much for the man that his home state dislikes him. But it seems that he is more widely regarded as a bit of a joke and a chancer. Yorkie would know the expression, but he comes across as a 'wide boy' rather than a businessman. And I've never known a real heavy-hitter in the business world needing to be a reality TV star.

[21st Century Man]

If he left at the interval then perhaps you have a point.

It doesn't say much for the man that his home state dislikes him. But it seems that he is more widely regarded as a bit of a joke and a chancer. Yorkie would know the expression, but he comes across as a 'wide boy' rather than a businessman. And I've never known a real heavy-hitter in the business world needing to be a reality TV star.

Let's just say if Trump did not die in it, Baldwin never would have gone in the first place.  I've never walked out of a movie or play in my life so I hardly expect others to do so.

[PB the Deplorable]

Ok, let's compare the difference in extremists' hateful rhetoric. Tell me how the following prayer from a right wing Trump devotee (and Art Bell fb friend) differs from the rantings of a radical leftist. In fact, if you replace "God Almighty" with Allah this "prayer" sounds like jihadist propaganda. Included on this right wing extremist's chilling wish list of disasters are the "taking out" of the media who oppose Trump, and that "Holy Divine MOABS" be dropped on our nation's capitol, ffs!

We can all find everything along the spectrum from both sides.  Do you really think the overall rhetoric from the right is at the same level, tone, and intensity as that of the left?  Is it as dishonest overall?  Do you really think the criticisms and attacks on Obama were at the same level as whats happening now with Trump?

When is the last time the ''right wingers'' were out blocking bridges, denying access to speakers, rioting, or attacking police? 

[PB the Deplorable]

Of course, but plays get updated all the time. I'm sure the producers had an eye on the box office but people who see it as incitement to violence aren't all that acute. This is a Shakespeare audience, we're not talking about multiplex moron fodder , so I don't think you will get too many people saying assassination is a good idea.

Oh, ok.  So no one is going to mind if some play is ''updated'' and an Obama look alike is lynched, right?  Put on with public money, performed in a public space.  Just, you know, artistic expression

[3OctaveFart]

I won't quarrel with your opinion of Trump because most of it is reasonable criticism.  In response I would only ask:  a) do you find Hilliary any less reprehensible than Trump; b) how does the bias and dishonesty of the MSM sit with you;  c) how is the the left's determination to impeach Trump that dates from Nov 8 benefit the Nation; d) were you satisfied with the prospect of business as usual inside the Beltway?

Briefly (because this ground is well tread):
- If either party had any good candidates they would have been presented for nomination. The two-party system is the problem, not a symptom. I don't know why we must continue playing this game 'but she smelled like urine so I chose to roll in shit instead'. She would have been a one-term president and the damage would have been contained. Take out the trash and try again in 2020.
- I find the media critiques baffling when the current president got at least two billion in free advertising - wall-to-wall rally coverage for weeks on end - from the very networks he derides.
- How does any of the garbage that goes on daily help this country? Do we really need a president who doesn't seem to understand our institutions? Do we really need this asshole undermining our courts just because he's used them as a plaything for 40 years?
- Washington was a pig trough well before I was born and nothing was ever going to change that.

[21st Century Man]

Excellent interview with Camille Paglia regarding Trump, Islam and transgenders.  I agree with Paglia most of the time.  I consider her to be one of the most intelligent people in our country.  (Hate that sentence.  It doesn't sound right but apparently it is.)

http://www.weeklystandard.com/camille-paglia-on-trump-democrats-transgenderism-and-islamist-terror/article/2008464

[SredniVashtar]

Oh, ok.  So no one is going to mind if some play is ''updated'' and an Obama look alike is lynched, right?  Put on with public money, performed in a public space.  Just, you know, artistic expression

Give me a specific example and I can answer that question. At the moment all you are giving me is sound and fury signifying nothing.

[21st Century Man]

Briefly (because this ground is well tread):
- If either party had any good candidates they would have been presented for nomination. The two-party system is the problem, not a symptom. I don't know why we must continue playing this game 'but she smelled like urine so I chose to roll in shit instead'. She would have been a one-term president and the damage would have been contained. Take out the trash and try again in 2020.
- I find the media critiques baffling when the current president got at least two billion in free advertising - wall-to-wall rally coverage for weeks on end - from the very networks he derides.
- How does any of the garbage that goes on daily help this country? Do we really need a president who doesn't seem to understand our institutions? Do we really need this asshole undermining our courts just because he's used them as a plaything for 40 years?
- Washington was a pig trough well before I was born and nothing was ever going to change that.

Very few people care for the two party system as it is now.  The thing is third parties don't get any traction in this country for whatever reason.  Even though more people are independent these days, 90% still vote for the D or R.  I don't see this changing in my lifetime though I hope I'm wrong.  I sure as hell don't want my vote going to some loser who is only going to get 5% of the vote so I vote for the lesser of two evils.  I'm sure many others do the same thing.

[PB the Deplorable]

Give me a specific example and I can answer that question. At the moment all you are giving me is sound and fury signifying nothing.

It wasn't really a question, and the example was very specific.  There just really is no equivalence to the hate, violence, and all around vileness of the Left in the political arena in this country

[Kidnostad3]

When people talk about how good deregulation is, it's worth remembering what it can lead to. You get people more concerned with their bottom line than bothering with safety.

Point taken.

[K_Dubb]

It wasn't really a question, and the example was very specific.  There just really is no equivalence to the hate, violence, and all around vileness of the Left in the political arena in this country

There was, apparently, an exact equivalent in Minneapolis in 2012 with a thin black Caesar and, though the resemblance was noted, people seem to have taken it as the usual bid to make Shakespeare relevant rather than a call to violence.

I don't really like that kind of updating and usually feel cheated out of sumptuous costuming, but it would be fun to watch Trump say "Let me have men about me that are fat/Sleek-headed men and such as sleep a-nights."

[SredniVashtar]

It wasn't really a question, and the example was very specific.  There just really is no equivalence to the hate, violence, and all around vileness of the Left in the political arena in this country

Sorry, I mistook a question mark at the end of a sentence to mean that you were asking a question. Silly me. You weren't specific at all, context is everything. If they put on a play called 'Kill That Nigger' featuring an Obama lookalike, I can imagine eyebrows being raised. The whole point of JC - and in this reading - is that political assassination is wrong. If it is saying anything, it is saying DON'T kill him. I don't expect this to convince you but I did my best.