President Donald J. Trump

[Dr. MD MD]

☝️ Like I said, he did not "get away with it".

No, the Clintons did. He was their patsy.

[K_Dubb]

Once again, rather than watch it you simply read the title and made up your own story based on that, like the retard you are. Do you really expect me to respond to this shit?! Cuz fuck you, retard is my answer. 

I did watch it, there is nothing that shows he is anything other than some overheated chud running his mouth who wasn't prosecuted because he was chickenshit and didn't go in despite telling others to do so, freedom of speech and all that.  Typical.

[Dr. MD MD]

I did watch it, there is nothing that shows he is anything other than some overheated chud running his mouth who wasn't prosecuted because he was chickenshit a fed and didn't go in despite telling others to do so.

FIFY

The deputy attorney general for national security never heard of the guy. Boy, he must REALLY be a nobody. 🙄

[K_Dubb]

FIFY

Good grief.  I don't care if he was a fed, that argument is basically that a bunch of hillbilly rustics were led to break the law because they were rage-blinded and dumb.  Sucks to be them  I feel bad for them, honestly.  At least the hot ones.




The FBI has been courting informants and plants within white supremacist groups in this part of the country since I was a kid, you guys need to stop freaking out about it and be smarter.  Just assume anyone calling for some dumb crime or getting your gurns out or civil-warring in your telegrams is a fed, it's what we do.

[Dr. MD MD]

Good grief.  I don't care if he was a fed, that argument is basically that a bunch of hillbilly rustics were led to break the law because they were rage-blinded and dumb.  Sucks to be them  I feel bad for them, honestly.  At least the hot ones.




The FBI has been courting informants and plants within white supremacist groups in this part of the country since I was a kid, you guys need to stop freaking out about it and be smarter.  Just assume anyone calling for some dumb crime or getting your gurns out or civil-warring in your telegrams is a fed, it's what we do.

So, you're a fed. Makes sense.

[K_Dubb]

So, you're a fed. Makes sense.

Hmm who is the poster who is always all like civil war time now everytime Biden farts?  Let's see, I forget his name, must be somewhere around here...

[Dr. MD MD]

Hmm who is the poster who is always all like civil war time now everytime Biden farts?  Let's see, I forget his name, must be somewhere around here...

That's just obvious and I'm certainly not the only one who thinks so. Anyway, the reason I said that is because you "it's what we do." Well, I certainly don't do that so you must be a fed, right? It would make sense given your slavish devotion to maintaining the deep state establishment.

[Juan]

Rumor is there are more FBI Ku Klux members than there are dedicated Klan members.  Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with right wing groups.

[K_Dubb]

That's just obvious and I'm certainly not the only one who thinks so. Anyway, the reason I said that is because you "it's what we do." Well, I certainly don't do that so you must be a fed, right? It would make sense given your slavish devotion to maintaining the deep state establishment.

You are the only one here, Feddy McFedface 

[albrecht]

Good grief.  I don't care if he was a fed, that argument is basically that a bunch of hillbilly rustics were led to break the law because they were rage-blinded and dumb.  Sucks to be them  I feel bad for them, honestly.  At least the hot ones.




The FBI has been courting informants and plants within white supremacist groups in this part of the country since I was a kid, you guys need to stop freaking out about it and be smarter.  Just assume anyone calling for some dumb crime or getting your gurns out or civil-warring in your telegrams is a fed, it's what we do.

I think more of a concern is that so many 'operations' or attacks are allowed to go on. Despite informants, embedded agents, outside entities (how-shall-we-say but tribal,) and now in more modern times internet traffic and data where almost everything tracked and monitored. Yet, still allowed to go ahead. Elohim City was fully infiltrated and monitored but OKC still allowed. Or, at minimum, ignored. I seem to recall the old Commie paper and organization made most of their income from FBI etc. Likewise the Klan and various groups. The Muzzies also always get nailed, when it is politically expedient, but ignored when greater agendas can be advanced. People so many 'on the radar' 'previously interviewed' 'was arrested but released' etc. Even more mundane. Look at Whitey Bulger!

I understand that things 'can be missed,' 'problems signal versus noise,' 'political reasons why some shouldn't be bothered or questioned,' but when it become a whole pattern? Can't be blamed on simple government incompetence or bureacratic oversights. At least ALL the time. Especially we see, in many cases, there is that much real concern for civil rights or legal process. FBI doesn't even record interviews and relies on written opinions 302s. The arcane and complex sheer AMOUNT of laws, regulations, and provisions can make anyone a criminal. And most all of it is never voted upon and when it is not actually read by 'representatives.'

[K_Dubb]

I think more of a concern is that so many 'operations' or attacks are allowed to go on. Despite informants, embedded agents, outside entities (how-shall-we-say but tribal,) and now in more modern times internet traffic and data where almost everything tracked and monitored. Yet, still allowed to go ahead. Elohim City was fully infiltrated and monitored but OKC still allowed. Or, at minimum, ignored. I seem to recall the old Commie paper and organization made most of their income from FBI etc. Likewise the Klan and various groups. The Muzzies also always get nailed, when it is politically expedient, but ignored when greater agendas can be advanced. People so many 'on the radar' 'previously interviewed' 'was arrested but released' etc. Even more mundane. Look at Whitey Bulger!

I seem to remember how in WWII intelligence elected numerous times not to warn of impending attacks because it would reveal to the enemy that their code was broken, Allied servicemen died senselessly but it was deemed necessary in order to protect that asset.  Cold calculations, above my pay grade.  Speculation is pointless, can drive yourself nuts over that stuff.

[Jackstar]

protect that asset.  Cold calculations, above my pay grade.  Speculation is pointless

I knew it!!!

can drive yourself nuts over that stuff.

The nanotech drives my nuts. I'm solid.

[albrecht]

I seem to remember how in WWII intelligence elected numerous times not to warn of impending attacks because it would reveal to the enemy that their code was broken, Allied servicemen died senselessly but it was deemed necessary in order to protect that asset.  Cold calculations, above my pay grade.  Speculation is pointless, can drive yourself nuts over that stuff.

Sure, like actuarial tables. 'How much is an arm worth?' etc. Triage in an emergency or battle situation. But there is a fine line, and usually (hopefully) not crossed is when an informant, embedded agent, etc is supposed to do something really bad. But as they say certain situations you get many bad choices and a lesser of evils or use a bad for a good. Still tough.

[Jackstar]

No, the Clintons did.

Did they get away with it either? Not so much I don't think. Weren't they really each their own worst punishment inflicted on each other for being married now for all Eternity?

He was their patsy.

Strict upgrade.

[Jackstar]

Rumor is there are more FBI Ku Klux members than there are dedicated Klan members.

Joining them to infiltrate them and swallow their souls from within is the sixth step on the road to enlightenment, so, this fits.

[K_Dubb]

Rumor is there are more FBI Ku Klux members than there are dedicated Klan members.  Wouldn't be surprised if that was the case with right wing groups.

Yes right-wing groups are particularly susceptible to this because they are typically hierarchical, run by bullish personalities concerned with order and authority, keep meticulous member lists and oaths etc., I forget what group it was out here Patriot Prayer or Oaf Beepers or something, guy was busted with set of index cards of all associates' names, addresses, records of loyalty pledges lol just dumbasses

[K_Dubb]

Sure, like actuarial tables. 'How much is an arm worth?' etc. Triage in an emergency or battle situation. But there is a fine line, and usually (hopefully) not crossed is when an informant, embedded agent, etc is supposed to do something really bad. But as they say certain situations you get many bad choices and a lesser of evils or use a bad for a good. Still tough.

Point being, that is how modern intelligence services have always run, and it doesn't take some sort of giant conspiracy theory to see, for example, that 9/11 was mined tirelessly to promote the Bushes' war, from the point of view of the average citizen it doesn't ultimately matter who did it or knew about it, the manipulation and flag-waving jingoism is plain enough in retrospect.

[albrecht]

Point being, that is how modern intelligence services have always run, and it doesn't take some sort of giant conspiracy theory to see, for example, that 9/11 was mined tirelessly to promote the Bushes' war, from the point of view of the average citizen it doesn't ultimately matter who did it or knew about it, the manipulation and flag-waving jingoism is plain enough in retrospect.

There is some tradition of grand conspiracy theories, but even the little ones, or infighting between conspirators over minor bits can be cause problems! The days, maybe, of a few minions of Kings deciding where borders are or whom shall be tribute to whom are over. Haha on that. I know, I'm racist, because focus more on Europe and the Oriental situations have even longer history of war, intrigues, plots, theories, philosophy of war, criminal syndicates, and wars. But we forget even sticking to the European theater that Italy and Germany (the evil folks) are a recent creation of plots and conspiracies. USA is older than many, even Norway! Gentlemen should not read each other's mail, I seem to recall someone saying. Again. Haha.

911, despite the obvious play on numbers and such, shouldn't be the focus. Too broad and recent, maybe. I think OKC and various flights like TWA800, KAL007, and the Liberty stuff more interesting to look into. But, as you mention, like Angleton (who supposedly went nuts) 'wheels within wheels.'

[albrecht]

Yes right-wing groups are particularly susceptible to this because they are typically hierarchical, run by bullish personalities concerned with order and authority, keep meticulous member lists and oaths etc., I forget what group it was out here Patriot Prayer or Oaf Beepers or something, guy was busted with set of index cards of all associates' names, addresses, records of loyalty pledges lol just dumbasses

Yes. NPR has been going on and on about the 'authoritarian personality' and such all the time now! The problem is tactics used on all sides the chaotic or those who want no authority etc makes a bigger mess, often. Or just more and more purges, famine, and so on.

I note an interesting op-ed about Norway recently. Even the fellow European socialists beginning to bitch because their coffers and sovereign fund is making $$$ from the gas crisis due to the Ukrainian situation. And like Swiss in earlier times making money from 'situations' but not joining up with groups etc. But pledge to 'go green' but 'we still will sell you gas now that Russia cut you off.'

[Dr. MD MD]

Yes right-wing groups are particularly susceptible to this because they are typically hierarchical, run by bullish personalities concerned with order and authority, keep meticulous member lists and oaths etc., I forget what group it was out here Patriot Prayer or Oaf Beepers or something, guy was busted with set of index cards of all associates' names, addresses, records of loyalty pledges lol just dumbasses

You see something nefarious and cryptofasciat about a members list?!

[Dr. MD MD]

[Jackstar]

You see something nefarious and cryptofasciat about a members list?!

Fed.

[Yorkshire pud]

From Wikipedia:

On July 19, 2004, it was revealed that the United States Department of Justice was investigating Berger for unauthorized removal of classified documents in October 2003 from a National Archives reading room prior to testifying before the 9/11 Commission. The documents were five classified copies of a single report commissioned from Richard Clarke covering internal assessments of the Clinton Administration's handling of the unsuccessful 2000 millennium attack plots. An associate of Berger said Berger took one copy in September 2003 and four copies in October 2003, allegedly by stuffing the documents into his socks and pants.[19][20] Berger subsequently lied to investigators when questioned about the removal of the documents.[21]

In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.[22]

Berger was fined $50,000,[23] sentenced to serve two years of probation and 100 hours of community service, and stripped of his security clearance for three years.[21][24] The Justice Department initially said Berger only stole copies of classified documents and not originals,[25] but the House Government Reform Committee later revealed that an unsupervised Berger had been given access to classified files of original, uncopied, uninventoried documents on terrorism. During the House Government Reform Committee hearings, Nancy Kegan Smith — who was the director of the presidential documents staff at the National Archives and Records Administration — acknowledged that she had granted Berger access to original materials in her office.[26]

Alternatively.

Asia Janay Lavarello, was on a temporary assignment at the US Embassy in Manilla when she took classified documents from the embassy to her hotel room, according to court filings. She hosted a dinner party at her hotel on the day she removed the documents, March 20, 2020, and an embassy co-worker in attendance found the documents, which had classified markings on them, according to the court filings.
She was working on a thesis and had no nefarious intent. And went to prison.

The poetic irony is under drump, the sentence in prison for such a crime was increased from one to five years. Per charge.

[Yorkshire pud]

You see something nefarious and cryptofasciat about a members list?!

Me me!

No, I see a supremely arrogant and laughably stupid organisational set up, that skirts the law at best (And has had several members arrested, and some have plea bargained to avoid spending the next ten years being someone's new wife) and expects that when they flag up their intentions to launch a coup and/or attack the Capitol building, it's highly likely that the spooks will be taking notice. And you know how it is with a terrier, they just don't let go, they find one rat, then another, then another...The fascists make it too easy to track and find them. Because they just can't help boasting how fucking great they are! 

[Yorkshire pud]

Point being, that is how modern intelligence services have always run, and it doesn't take some sort of giant conspiracy theory to see, for example, that 9/11 was mined tirelessly to promote the Bushes' war, from the point of view of the average citizen it doesn't ultimately matter who did it or knew about it, the manipulation and flag-waving jingoism is plain enough in retrospect.

Worth watching. UK and German spooks knew it was a lie, and told the WH, the CIA told the WH too.. The WH ignored it...and with Blair in tow....

[GravitySucks]

Alternatively.

Asia Janay Lavarello, was on a temporary assignment at the US Embassy in Manilla when she took classified documents from the embassy to her hotel room, according to court filings. She hosted a dinner party at her hotel on the day she removed the documents, March 20, 2020, and an embassy co-worker in attendance found the documents, which had classified markings on them, according to the court filings.
She was working on a thesis and had no nefarious intent. And went to prison.

The poetic irony is under drump, the sentence in prison for such a crime was increased from one to five years. Per charge.

https://twitter.com/thelastrefuge2/status/1572688969485238275

[Yorkshire pud]

https://twitter.com/thelastrefuge2/status/1572688969485238275

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-allowed-take-white-house-records-but-not-trump-2022-8

Trump baselessly bashed Obama for transferring records from the White House to Chicago. Here's why Obama was allowed while Trump is under scrutiny by the FBI.


Donald Trump invoked Barack Obama while bashing the FBI raid on his Mar-a-Lago home on August 8.
Trump and Fox News compared his situation to Obama moving records to Chicago after his term.
The National Archives took it upon itself to dispel Trump's claims.


Former President Donald Trump is no longer satisfied with talking only about Hillary Clinton's emails when it comes to deflecting potential allegations he mishandled classified documents.

As part of his shifting defense following the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago, the former president and his allies are bringing up completely unrelated claims about former President Barack Obama.

On August 8, the FBI executed an unprecedented search warrant on Trump's Mar-a-Lago home in Palm Beach, Florida. It's now known that federal agents were retrieving sensitive White House documents — some of which were marked highly classified or top secret — and that the Justice Department is investigating whether the former president broke federal laws by keeping them and obstructing the probe by claiming that the files have all been returned.

In the days following the raid, Trump and his allies on Fox News delivered the whataboutism defense of Obama transferring records from the White House to Chicago for his presidential library.


"What happened to the 30 million pages of documents taken from the White House to Chicago by Barack Hussein Obama? He refused to give them back!" Trump wrote in an August 11 post on Truth Social. "What is going on? This act was strongly at odds with NARA. Will they be breaking into Obama's 'mansion' in Martha's Vineyard?"

The former president and his son Donald Trump Jr. cited an opinion piece published by The New York Post in support of their baseless accusations.

But the facts don't align with Trump's statements
Tens of thousands of Obama's documents were transported to Chicago. But these items were shipped to a federal government facility — which is what's supposed to happen with a president's records. Federal law requires that presidents and their administrations keep a detailed collection of emails, documents, and even gifts from their time in office since all of those things are actually the property of the American people.

In Obama's case, the National Archives took legal ownership of Obama's documents and then began the long process of sorting through the material before the public could request it years later. Some of this material was then turned over to Obama's presidential library, which is the standard legal process.


On August 12, the National Archives took it upon itself to further dispel Trump's claims.

"NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA," the archives said in a statement. "Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration."

Apart from the long processes, Obama's presidential library will break from the precedent in that the Obama Foundation will pay for the unclassified records to be digitized in a bid to democratize access to the documents, in what has been billed to be the "first digital archives for the first digital president," according to The New York Times.

Trump and Trump Jr. also drew on a line from The New York Post column noting that, to date, the records transferred to Obama's presidential library have yet to digitize the materials and make them available to the public — five years since the end of his term and when the record transfer began.


Though the delay has sparked some ire from historians and critics, the process of transferring the records themselves often take years, not to mention the task of digitizing roughly 30 million documents to be made available online.

Trump's lawyer, on the other hand, said the Feds took at least a dozen boxes containing sensitive — and some "top secret" — material from the former president's Mar-a-Lago home, according to The Washington Post. The FBI's search warrant was aimed at finding out if Trump had taken documents home with him that should have been turned over at the end of his term.

Though Trumpworld can draw similarities between Trump and Obama both taking records from the White House, the significant difference in how they took the documents explains why the former remains under scrutiny by the FBI and the latter is still in the process of setting up a library unbothered by federal law enforcement.

Upshot: Obama didn't break the law, drump did. But he hasn't said why he moved them to his golf club. And his lawyers haven't said in court that the FBI planted evidence. Trump's legal team pick special master has asked they present evidence that happened, but so far they're schtum on that.. weird, cos drump was keen for everyone to know that nugget of news.

[albrecht]

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-allowed-take-white-house-records-but-not-trump-2022-8


Upshot: Obama didn't break the law, drump did. But he hasn't said why he moved them to his golf club. And his lawyers haven't said in court that the FBI planted evidence. Trump's legal team pick special master has asked they present evidence that happened, but so far they're schtum on that.. weird, cos drump was keen for everyone to know that nugget of news.

While I like obfuscation and Sophistry I REALLY enjoy this excuse of needing 'digitize.' Read: 'sanitize' or change at any time when, decades later, if actually released or accessible. Barak was 'smart guy' unlike the 'big guy.' Or handlers/backers more into him than the latest stooge. I also complain about 'special' masters. Master bedroom are now a no-go in some real estate concerns. Racist! But 'big man' was concerned about racial jungles? And bussing? Cornpop was a bad dude... we live in amazing times. 80+/- % of US corportions based out of 'big man' state to their interesting laws and chancery court. (You are a Brit, so know.) A man of the people! All hail the 'big man.' Just make sure his soup is not too warm and get him to bed and meds early. Push water.  Often they forget to hydrate. Ice-chips can be used. Don't want down the wrong pipe! Well, making some assumptions here. Who knows the handlers plans. Be well 'big man' and check your 6. Try to draw clocks. For fun!

[Dr. MD MD]

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-allowed-take-white-house-records-but-not-trump-2022-8

Upshot: Obama didn't break the law, drump did.

Upshot:



And it's extremely biased, not based.

[albrecht]

Upshot:



And it's extremely biased, not based.

Hard to keep them back on the farm. Mill, mine, croft or whatever. Very strange so many want to come, or flee, to such an evil, rascist, sexist country. Or even domestic- why people move, from such ideal cities or States with high taxes, flith in streets, and a likelyhood of getting a brick in your head or carjacked? Or worse? Especially for women but other also. Asian attacks seem to be the new trend in utopias. I guess white flight changed the games and crime opportunity? Idk.