Tonight's guest; Consider Muslims?

[James G.]

After turning off tonight's broadcast, I have to ponder:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

I've known Muslims that are the salt of the Earth. And, true, good people. But, after hearing tonight's garbage called Coast To Coast AM, I'll tune out.

And I turned that crappy radio program off, and switched to Fox-Sports Radio.

What depths Premiere Radio Networks sinks to. At least, Sports-Talk Radio is made of something.

What a disgrace Coast-To-Coast AM has become to the American airways these days.

Years ago, I admit, I had a crush on a very gorgeous, dark-haired young woman who's father and mother ran a gas station. She was from Tehran, Iran. Her dad was loyal to the Shah, and they escaped from Iran when she was a little girl from the revolution of some maniac she called "The Ayatollah Khomeini."

"And I Ran. I Ran So Far Away." Ha!

[onan]

After turning off tonight's broadcast, I have to ponder:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

I've known Muslims that are the salt of the Earth. And, true, good people. But, after hearing tonight's garbage called Coast To Coast AM, I'll tune out.

And I turned that crappy radio program off, and switched to Fox-Sports Radio.

What depths Premiere Radio Networks sinks to. At least, Sports-Talk Radio is made of something.

What a disgrace Coast-To-Coast AM has become to the American airways these days.

Years ago, I admit, I had a crush on a very gorgeous, dark-haired young woman who's father and mother ran a gas station. She was from Tehran, Iran. Her dad was loyal to the Shah, and they escaped from Iran when she was a little girl from the revolution of some maniac she called "The Ayatollah Khomeini."

"And I Ran. I Ran So Far Away." Ha!

I need clarification. Are you saying all terrorists are muslims? or are you informing us that was the position coming from some whacknut from C2C?

Just in case however... IRA comes to mind.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

Well, there was Tim McVeigh......but Brian Kilmade from FOX News says "He doesn't count", so I guess that settles it.

[punkinpie]

I don't feel particularly offended by the comment "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." 

I fear the political correctness that is creating a climate that discourages our rights to voice opinions.   Everybody is so freaking sensitive and butt hurt all the time. 

[onan]

I don't feel particularly offended by the comment "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." 

I fear the political correctness that is creating a climate that discourages our rights to voice opinions.   Everybody is so freaking sensitive and butt hurt all the time.

This isn't about political correctness. This is about rational thought. There is a difference. Dodging responsible thought because its easy isn't a hip version of being politcally incorrect.

And when I think about it whats wrong with having some sensitivity? Perhaps if more people had enough compassion to look past their nose the world would be a bit better place to be.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

I don't feel particularly offended by the comment "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." 

I fear the political correctness that is creating a climate that discourages our rights to voice opinions.   Everybody is so freaking sensitive and butt hurt all the time.

It's not about political correctness. It's just not true. There are plenty of people who fit the textbook definition of terrorists who are not Muslims. The problem is the media had decided that some people are terrorists and other people are just "criminals" or "lone nutjobs".

[The General]

It's not about political correctness. It's just not true. There are plenty of people who fit the textbook definition of terrorists who are not Muslims. The problem is the media had decided that some people are terrorists and other people are just "criminals" or "lone nutjobs".

Okay not all.  But easlily 90% are Muslims.

[onan]

Okay not all.  But easlily 90% are Muslims.

last poll had it at 87% get your facts straight

[GuerrillaUnReal]

God damn people are stupid.

[James G.]

I need clarification. Are you saying all terrorists are muslims? or are you informing us that was the position coming from some whacknut from C2C?

Just in case however... IRA comes to mind.

All I'm pointing out, is that every American who dare rides on an airplane these days is treated to the "you may be a terrorist mentality." And subjected to harmful, radioactive body screening, for one.

Now, I agree about Timothy McVeigh. He was not only a "homegrown terrorist," but a decorated American military veteran as well. But none of his plots involved air travel.

To clarify: No, not all Muslims are terrorists, as I stated. I've lived among them and known some that are true, good people.

But, so far in the United States, every person that has tried or carried out some offense through air travel has been a Muslim. That is all I'm saying. And I note that such are perverting and twisting the Nation of Islam beliefs to suit their ends.

Also note that after Sept. 11, 2001, none of these "wanna-be" terrorists originated in a flight inside the United States. They boarded flights from abroad. Not from within.

I feel it shameful that now every American is treated as a possible threat at U.S. airports. By doing that, our country shows how our enemies succeed by causing us to turn on each as we have.

That I disagree with.

To clarify. We've come a long way since the post-9/11 "United We Stand" speeches. We need to unite for real, and that's something we are becoming further removed from these days.

We should be good to one another. As I do in life. Do I need to point this out?

[onan]

To clarify. We've come a long way since the post-9/11 "United We Stand" speeches. We need to unite for real, and that's something we are becoming further removed from these days.

We should be good to one another. As I do in life. Do I need to point this out?

I think the whole "gotta make sure no boxcutters" mentality is absolutely nuts. I think I mentioned in another thread that a family member of mine has a very unique job of which there are less than 10 with this skillset in the US. Hence he travels outside the US weekly. One anecdote he shared with me: his job requires he take a rather large set of tools with him while working, so in airports he is always dragging a large metal chest. Leaving Brazil he walked from parking lot to his seat without one security check. His flight was to the US. His point was if someone wanted to gain control of an airline they could easily bypass our security.

But obviously some manner of security is necessary. The way I have insulated myself from the indignities of ariline securites is by choosing to fly much less often.

We as americans are quick to anger and quick to point fingers to our problems being caused by others. The U.S. has played a role in what has turned around and bit us in the arse.

Just for starters:
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2009/06/23/has-the-u-s-played-a-role-in-fomenting-unrest-during-irans-election/

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

God damn people are stupid.

Don't forget Eric Rudolph, who the right-wing media pundits didn't feel was a terrorist when he was gunning down/blowing up abortion doctors, but had to admit he went too far when he blew up the Olympic Park in Atlanta.

[The General]

God damn people are stupid.

I'm not saying that there aren't white and/or christian terrorists.
But you can pretty much name them all by name.
And it's certainly not a global religous/political movement like with some people we know.

[MV/Liberace!]

I'm not saying that there aren't white and/or christian terrorists.
But you can pretty much name them all by name.
And it's certainly not a global religous/political movement like with some people we know.

you, sir, have a firm grasp of reality.

[onan]

I'm not saying that there aren't white and/or christian terrorists.
But you can pretty much name them all by name.
And it's certainly not a global religous/political movement like with some people we know.

you, sir, have a firm grasp of reality.

This is where I have to jump in with the truism "a picture is worth a thousand words" however a thousand words may not be worth all that much.

I will always keep the position that all religions attract the crazy. There are other crazy magnets to consider as well.

Maybe it is easy to think most terrorists are muslim, I find that position uncomfortable.

I have seen first hand mobs of several hundred turning over cars and setting them on fire because of a professional football game. Not a fatwa... a football game.

Having a picture broadcast over the air and in print in multiple papers may be news or it may be propaganda.

It is way way too easy to take a moment in time and label it crazy but all moments are part of a context. But for some of us card carrying patriots it is impossible to consider there may be more than just crazy at work.

Please take a couple hours to watch the bbc documentary "the Power of Nightmares".

[GuerrillaUnReal]

I'm confused what a picture of a Middle Eastern political rally proves.

[The General]

I'm confused what a picture of a Middle Eastern political rally proves.
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I'm just saying that there aren't a whole lot of blue-eyed folks on this list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_organization

[The General]

Maybe it is easy to think most terrorists are muslim, I find that position uncomfortable.

That's the point.  It is uncomfortable.  That doesn't make it untrue.

I have seen first hand mobs of several hundred turning over cars and setting them on fire because of a professional football game. Not a fatwa... a football game.

And that really is stupid.  I agree with you there.  But not terrorism.
If we are going to define terms here, then rioting over a football game doesn't count as terrorism.  Terrorism is the systematic use of terror as a means of coercion.  Random violence?  Not terrorism.  Stupid, but not terrorism.  But killing in the name of a cause to further your political agenda counts. 

Conversely, I would say that America has the lead in stupid pointless random violence., like rioting over football games and school shootings and lone gunmen and serial killers.  It's usually middle class white folks.  Is that racist to say?  I don't think so.  I'm simply making observations about reality no matter how culturally uncomfortable it might be.  Just like the observation that most terrorists are muslim.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

So what makes everyone in that picture a terrorist? Have they all blown up someone? Do they have terrorist thoughts? Do they hate America? Or do they just want to get out from under their own government? If I hate the Middle East, does that make me a terrorist? I don't really get the context of why that pic shows terrorists.

Posting a picture of a bunch of Middle Eastern folks protesting or rallying something somewhere is no different than posting a part of a pro-life rally and saying "Hundreds of potential abortion doctor assassins in there.....". Or let me just get a pic of just about any parade in Belfast and say "Look at all the train station bombers".

Jesus, you could have at least posted one of them doing something threatening anyway. I don't even see an American or Israeli flag being burned, or Bush being hung in effigy. A bunch of brown guys in golf shirts all in one place. Clearly time for a FOX News alert.

[The General]

So what makes everyone in that picture a terrorist? ....

Nothing.

I was trying to satirically illustrate how posting pictures of 4 easily recognizable white dudes as examples of terrorists (only two of which you could even call terrorists) is a far cry from being able to recognize and name these guys. 

The 9-11 hijackers.

Yes, there are white terrorists.
But you can pretty much name them all by name.
And it's certainly not a global religous/political movement like with Islamists.

[rangers1919]

The ignorance of Muslim bashers is embarrassing as a fellow human. I don't know how people can listen to, or watch, sources that are continually wrong and continue to take anything they say with a grain of salt. Duke had an actual study not based on idiocy and racism which showed that only 6% of terrorists in the U.S. are Muslims. This study was before the marked increase in right wing terrorism over the last 2-4 years which would increase the numbers even more. In fact there were more terrorist attacks in the U.S. by Jews than by Muslims, so I guess by the logic, and I use that term loosely, that these people are using we should invade Israel and won't be safe until all Jews are contained. I know a lot of it is because the people complaining agree with many of the terrorists so they don't view it as terrorism, but you have to use some common sense and check into something on your own at some point if you have even a little bit of intelligence.

[onan]

All Terrorists are Muslims...Except the 94% that Aren't

Study from Duke University:
Muslim-American terrorism makes news. Out of the thousands of acts of violence that occur in the United States each year, an efficient system of government prosecution and media coverage brings Muslim-American terrorism suspects to national attention, creating the impression -- perhaps unintentionally -- that Muslim-American terrorism is more prevalent than it really is.
Upturns in the pace of Muslim-American terrorism are particularly newsworthy, and have driven much public debate over the past two years. This report documents a downturn in the pace of Muslim-American terrorism -- it remains to be seen whether this is accorded a similar level of attention, and whether the level of public concern will ratchet downward along
with the number of terrorism suspects.

From CNN:

posted on:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/

The Islamophobes claim that Islam is intrinsically a terrorist religion.  The proof?  Well, just about every terrorist attack is Islamic, they retort.  Unfortunately for them, that’s not quite true.  More like six percent.  Using their defunct logic, these right wingers ought now to conclude that nearly all acts of terrorism are committed by Latinos (or Jews).  Let them dare say it…they couldn’t; it would be political and social suicide to say such a thing. Most Americans would shut down such talk as bigoted; yet, similar statements continue to be said of Islam, without any repercussions.
The Islamophobes live in a fantasy world where everyone is supposedly too “politically correct” to criticize Islam and Muslims.  Yet, the reality is the exact opposite: you can get away with saying anything against the crescent.  Can you imagine the reaction if I said that Latinos should be profiled because after all they are the ones who commit the most terrorism in the country?  (For the record: I don’t believe in such profiling, because I amâ€"unlike the right wing nuttersâ€"a believer in American ideals.)


I realize the website Loonwatch has a certain lack of credibility due to their name but certainly no less credibility than the picture of the crowd of what may be muslims from a site named samsonblinded.

[The General]

I thought we were talking GLOBALLY.
Not Muslim Americans.   There's a big difference.
Muslims are aproximately 1% of the American population.
This Duke study is talking about Americans only.
So 6% of AMERICAN terrorists are Muslim, while only 1% of the population is Muslim.
I think this study goes a long way toward proving the point that terrorists are
DISPROPORTIONATELY MUSLIM.

[TaoOfLuxLisbon]

Nothing.

I was trying to satirically illustrate how posting pictures of 4 easily recognizable white dudes as examples of terrorists (only two of which you could even call terrorists) is a far cry from being able to recognize and name these guys. 

The 9-11 hijackers.

Yes, there are white terrorists.
But you can pretty much name them all by name.
And it's certainly not a global religous/political movement like with Islamists.

You could have just posted that picture to start and made the point more effectively, I think.

Okay, you wouldn't call Cheney a terrorist (I wouldn't either, he's more of a Banana Republic despot who enjoys using the tools of his government's military industrial complex to personally line his pockets) but who else isn't a terrorist of those four? Manson? Because I would say his agenda, despite being woefully flawed and a ridiculous delusion of grandeur, is at it's heart a terrorist plot. I think his ultimate plan was to carry out some sort of mass killing. He was trying to stir some sort of shit, whereas, say, serial killers are generally just killing to please one person, themselves.

[The General]

You could have just posted that picture to start and made the point more effectively, I think.

Okay, you wouldn't call Cheney a terrorist (I wouldn't either, he's more of a Banana Republic despot who enjoys using the tools of his government's military industrial complex to personally line his pockets) but who else isn't a terrorist of those four? Manson? Because I would say his agenda, despite being woefully flawed and a ridiculous delusion of grandeur, is at it's heart a terrorist plot. I think his ultimate plan was to carry out some sort of mass killing. He was trying to stir some sort of shit, whereas, say, serial killers are generally just killing to please one person, themselves.

First point, Agreed.

Yeah, Manson was the other one.  I'd personally call him a cult leader.  But it's really just a case of semantics.  I guess we could call him a terrorist.  I usually think of a terrorist as having more of a cohesive political agenda rather than just some LSD induced sociopathic insanity.

[Marc.Knight]

Perhaps a clarification of thought might constructively add to this discussion.  Rather than positing "race' as a distinction here, I believe that we are talking about distinct ethnicities.  One cannot juxtapose "white Caucasian race" with Muslim or Arab.  Anthropologists classify Arabs as Caucasian because of bone structure, not continental origin.  There is no such thing as a "white" race.

Muslims and Arabs can have distinct ethnicities which might then be prone to certain categories of discussion here.

[The General]

Islam is not a race.  So, I'm talking ideologies more than race or ethnicity.
My contention is that globally speaking, most terrorism is ideologically motivated by radical Islamists, regardless of their race.  For example we had John Walker Lindh, caucasian Islamist.

[Marc.Knight]

Islam is not a race.  So, I'm talking ideaologies more than race.
For example we had John Walker Lindh, caucasian Islamist.

I agree,  - and John Walker Lindh is a caucasian Islamist - all the Arabs that were with him were caucasian.  Particular ethnicities within Muslim peoples are prone to violence because of their beliefs.

[The General]

I agree,  - and John Walker Lindh is a caucasian Islamist - all the Arabs that were with him were caucasian.  Particular ethnicities within Muslim peoples are prone to violence because of their beliefs.

Ethnicity doesn't have anything to do with it.
Ethnicity doesn't make anyone think a certain way. 
It's values.  Beliefs.  Ideologies.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

This conversation is dumb. Hey let's redefine the word terrorism to suit our xenophobic ideals and continue to propagate Boogeyman Fear. That's been a wholesome American pursuit for the last ten years.