Marijuana

Started by Marc.Knight, March 20, 2010, 01:13:07 PM

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Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on September 09, 2016, 02:09:36 PM
I'm speaking from experience not feelings.

You're speaking about your feelings about your experience, which I totally understand. I've seen enough of the bullshit that can be associated with drugs to almost have similar feelings. However, I value the truth more.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: K_Dubb on September 09, 2016, 01:36:41 PM
controlling sugar.

That's only because it proves to be more destructive than marijuana and heroin combined...but don't let the science stand in the way of your feelings about something. You let 'em know who's boss!  ;)

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:16:06 PM
You're speaking about your feelings about your experience, which I totally understand. I've seen enough of the bullshit that can be associated with drugs to almost have similar feelings. However, I value the truth more.

To answer your earlier questions, maybe banning alcohol would be the right thing to do but we already tried to put that genie back in the bottle and that failed.  No point in trying to do it again.  I'm just saying that legalizing drugs would be opening Pandora's box to use another metaphor.  I think we seriously ought to consider the ramifications before we do something like that.  Anyway, that is why I'm not a libertarian.  I detest drugs and don't want to see them legalized.  However, I am as fervently for the right for you to oppose me if such a measure came up for a vote.

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on September 09, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
Its unfair that the little boy's face is shown;

i can't believe they put that photo out without hiding his face.  lame.

K_Dubb

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:18:24 PM
That's only because it proves to be more destructive than marijuana and heroin combined...but don't let the science stand in the way of your feelings about something. You let 'em know who's boss!  ;)

Relax, dude; I think I'm on your side in this, though not without some trepidation.

MV/Liberace!

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 12:59:27 PM
While this is tragic I object to the title of the thread, which is obviously meant to associate heroin with all other drugs (or at least the ones you don't like). Nice try but Mr. Mackey already beat you to it.

philosopher pops in about every 15 months to propagandize against marijuana.  it's what he does.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: K_Dubb on September 09, 2016, 02:28:13 PM
Relax, dude, I think I'm on your side in this, though not without some trepidation.

I'm probably the most relaxed person in this thread. I'll leave it to your imagination as to why.  ;)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on September 09, 2016, 02:26:26 PM
To answer your earlier questions, maybe banning alcohol would be the right thing to do but we already tried to put that genie back in the bottle and that failed.  No point in trying to do it again.  I'm just saying that legalizing drugs would be opening Pandora's box to use another metaphor.  I think we seriously ought to consider the ramifications before we do something like that.  Anyway, that is why I'm not a libertarian.  I detest drugs and don't want to see them legalized.  However, I am as fervently for the right for you to oppose me if such a measure came up for a vote.

Dude, alcohol IS a drug...and so are lots of other things already in market. That box IS open. The genie has long been out of the bottle. Good luck getting the toothpaste back in the tube.  ;)

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
Really?! The brain doesn't stop forming until you're in your twenties. Please, tell me more Mr. Wizard.  ::)

Wizard? Not I.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/teen-cannabis-use-may-damage-brain-for-life-warns-major-study-8082533.html

http://www.livescience.com/5298-marijuana-disrupt-brain-development.html

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/11/marijuana-brain.aspx

Quote
I'm for legalizing everything but, of course, there should be controls and limits. Nice strawman attempt though.  ;)

Ahh the old 'strawman' reposte.. we both have no idea what you mean by that.


Quote
The problem in making it a political football or a legal issue  is that it creates more problems than it solves but good luck with your witch hunt, guys. When you're done rounding up all the marijuana and heroin users just remember that your posse will get bored and look for something/someone else to go after and this time it might be you for something you do or value.  :P

As long as you're there to pick up the pieces, all will be right I'm sure....

MV/Liberace!

all marijuana threads were merged into this giant blunt of a superthread.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on September 09, 2016, 02:33:55 PM
Ahh the old 'strawman' reposte.. we both have no idea what you mean by that.

Then I'll explain. It's when you attempt to associate someone's position on something with an obvious sham argument that that no one would disagree with, such as your little maturing brains argument that was meant to make it look like I'm all for wrecking the brains of growing children just because I'm pro-legalization. It's just sad that you seem to think it's clever.

BTW, the facts on what you're talking about are somewhat preliminary as we're really just starting to scratch the surface on brain research, in general. There has also been a lot of evidence that shows that marijuana is helpful to people who already have brain issues, e.g., seizures, etc.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:32:53 PM
Dude, alcohol IS a drug...and so are lots of other things already in market. That box IS open. The genie has long been out of the bottle. Good luck getting the toothpaste back in the tube.  ;)

It is a drug but it is not really treated as one.  I just think that we are asking for more problems by legalizing recreational drugs.  You think our country is going down the tubes now, you ain't seen nothin' yet if we do such a thing.  I'm not without sympathy for those who use pot to relax if they are high-strung individuals but that is why we issue prescriptions in this country.  I am completely for medical marijuana just not the other.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on September 09, 2016, 01:16:49 PM
Yes, in the same way tobacco is. If Tobacco was discovered now it would be class A, no question. Beer was only invented by monks because the water was undrinkable, but booze kills thousands a year, either directly or indirectly. Just because both are legal doesn't mean Dope should be, Its been very well manipulated under the guise of 'medicinal'. Oh bingo, we'll sell it now under medicinal even if it isn't. Cynical marketing, much?

If you feel so strongly about mind altering substances on principle, then you shouldn't drink alcohol because it's just another side of the same coin.  I'm not making comparisons about relative effects, but it sounds like you're saying one illegal or misused drug is pretty much as bad as another.  Alcohol should be part of that calculus, and it's disingenuous not to include it.

Besides, when you get drunk you always wind up shedding your knickers and making a terrifying spectacle of yourself.

Dr. MD MD

From https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

Marijuana use has increased since 2007. In 2013, there were 19.8 million current usersâ€"about 7.5 percent of people aged 12 or olderâ€"up from 14.5 million (5.8 percent) in 2007.

Use of most drugs other than marijuana has stabilized over the past decade or has declined. In 2013, 6.5 million Americans aged 12 or older (or 2.5 percent) had used prescription drugs nonmedically in the past month. Prescription drugs include pain relievers, tranquilizers, stimulants, and sedatives. And 1.3 million Americans (0.5 percent) had used hallucinogens (a category that includes ecstasy and LSD) in the past month.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 03:53:09 PM
From https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/nationwide-trends

Marijuana use has increased since 2007. In 2013, there were 19.8 million current usersâ€"about 7.5 percent of people aged 12 or olderâ€"up from 14.5 million (5.8 percent) in 2007.

Use of most drugs other than marijuana has stabilized over the past decade or has declined. In 2013, 6.5 million Americans aged 12 or older (or 2.5 percent) had used prescription drugs nonmedically in the past month. Prescription drugs include pain relievers, tranquilizers, stimulants, and sedatives. And 1.3 million Americans (0.5 percent) had used hallucinogens (a category that includes ecstasy and LSD) in the past month.

Heroin use has increased.  You're  also making my point about marijuana.  As marijuana has become legal  in some states and more acceptable in others, use has increased.  Look for that trend to continue if we loosen the laws further.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on September 09, 2016, 03:59:21 PM
Heroin use has increased.  You're  also making my point about marijuana.  As marijuana has become legal  in some states and more acceptable in others, use has increased.  Look for that trend to continue if we loosen the laws further.

Maybe reading comprehension is a problem for you then as it is clearly the least abused drug on their list.

Catsmile

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:14:04 PM
   ...
I'm for legalizing everything but, of course, there should be controls and limits. Nice strawman attempt though.  ;)

The problem in making it a political football or a legal issue  is that it creates more problems than it solves but good luck with your witch hunt, guys. When you're done rounding up all the marijuana and heroin users just remember that your posse will get bored and look for something/someone else to go after and this time it might be you for something you do or value.  :P

In that case you are not for legalization, if you want legal controls put in place on drugs. You are however for decriminalization, like most sane people.

Alcohol and tobacco are decriminalized drugs. Legalized means that no laws would be in place around the usage of a substance. It may sound like picking nits, but there is a big difference between legalized and decriminalized.

I love how most folks who want to keep some drugs illegal always overlook Fat, Sugar, Caffeine, Tobacco, and Alcohol as gateway drugs, but almost never fail to point at Cannabis as <ominous DUN DUN DUN!!> "THE GATEWAY DRUG"</ominous DUN DUN DUN!!>. It shows their ignorance, bias, agenda, or combinations thereof.  :-\ sigh

Seventy years on and Reefer Madness continues. Over 40 years into Nixons War on Drugs, and the DEA is the first to say they are losing that war; despite spending Billions of dollars and millions of man hours. With untold lives lost or ruined on both sides of the drug war. However they do want us to give them billions of dollars more, so they can make a dent in "the drug problem". After 40 years... it would seem like the DEA is addicted to keeping drugs a problem, as it keeps the cash and power flowing into their collective pockets. Think about it. Winning the War on Drugs, or decriminalization would mean packing up going home and finding another job, with less power, perks, or pay. Fuck that!! Amirite?!

Drugs are not new to Humanity, they have been with us even before written history. Yet here we are, somehow. Humans have always had a desire to alter their perception/consciousnesses, using a multitude of avenues, not just drugs. No amount of legislation or decrees will change such a fundamental human desire, no matter how harsh the punishment; including death. Such legislation and decrees do however create flourishing black markets; and always have throughout history. Legislating morality nevar workz. Nao or evarmoar.


mikuthing01

When i went though a Ron Paul libertarian phase i thought they should legalize all drugs and let it kill the stupid people off. I have only had one friend who did drugs but i didn't hang around him when he did it. Marijuana was a gateway drug for him though he started off on it then a few years later found out he was doing cocaine. And after that guy got his face eaten off by a dindu on bath salts he overheard us talking about it and said "dude bath salts wont do that" turns out he had done bath salts also. He has a good job now though and seems to have got his life together, at least i hope so.

I never seen the appeal of drugs so i never touched them. When i was a teenager i tried alcohol a few times and never liked it. I think the appeal was that i was underage and i could get in trouble, i never drank it again after the age of 21. I get my highs off doing stupid shit with cars, jeeps, atv's and dirt bikes and that's deadly enough without being inebriated.

It should be kept strictly illegal except in the case of some diseases, not bullshit excuses like anxiety

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Catsmile on September 09, 2016, 04:23:57 PM
In that case you are not for legalization, if you want legal controls put in place on drugs. You are however for decriminalization, like most sane people.

Alcohol and tobacco are decriminalized drugs. Legalized means that no laws would be in place around the usage of a substance. It may sound like picking nits, but there is a big difference between legalized and decriminalized.

I love how most folks who want to keep some drugs illegal always overlook Fat, Sugar, Caffeine, Tobacco, and Alcohol as gateway drugs, but almost never fail to point at Cannabis as <ominous DUN DUN DUN!!> "THE GATEWAY DRUG"</ominous DUN DUN DUN!!>. It shows their ignorance, bias, agenda, or combinations thereof.  :-\ sigh

Seventy years on and Reefer Madness continues. Over 40 years into Nixons War on Drugs, and the DEA is the first to say they are losing that war; despite spending Billions of dollars and millions of man hours. With untold lives lost or ruined on both sides of the drug war. However they do want us to give them billions of dollars more, so they can make a dent in "the drug problem". After 40 years... it would seem like the DEA is addicted to keeping drugs a problem, as it keeps the cash and power flowing into their collective pockets. Think about it. Winning the War on Drugs, or decriminalization would mean packing up going home and finding another job, with less power, perks, or pay. Fuck that!! Amirite?!

Drugs are not new to Humanity, they have been with us even before written history. Yet here we are, somehow. Humans have always had a desire to alter their perception/consciousnesses, using a multitude of avenues, not just drugs. No amount of legislation or decrees will change such a fundamental human desire, no matter how harsh the punishment; including death. Such legislation and decrees do however create flourishing black markets; and always have throughout history. Legislating morality nevar workz. Nao or evarmoar.



Yeah, my bad. That's what I meant. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying but we do legislate morality at some level. The liberal moral ideal of this country is that everyone should be free so long as their freedom does not impinge on the freedom of another or others. Pretty much the golden rule made law by a rebel country that thought that things should be different and that the citizens of this new country should strive to make it so. I'm alright with that moral compass but that's as far as it should go. The problems come when certain people who have strong feelings about how one's freedom should be exercised and the limits of such try to impose their views on the rest of us.

norland2424

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:30:12 PM
I'm probably the most relaxed person in this thread. I'll leave it to your imagination as to why.  ;)

Dr Md MD high on that heroin laced weed  :'( :'(

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: mikuthing01 on September 09, 2016, 04:52:50 PM
When i went though a Ron Paul libertarian phase i thought they should legalize all drugs and let it kill the stupid people off. I have only had one friend who did drugs but i didn't hang around him when he did it. Marijuana was a gateway drug for him though he started off on it then a few years later found out he was doing cocaine. And after that guy got his face eaten off by a dindu on bath salts he overheard us talking about it and said "dude bath salts wont do that" turns out he had done bath salts also. He has a good job now though and seems to have got his life together, at least i hope so.

I never seen the appeal of drugs so i never touched them. When i was a teenager i tried alcohol a few times and never liked it. I think the appeal was that i was underage and i could get in trouble, i never drank it again after the age of 21. I get my highs off doing stupid shit with cars, jeeps, atv's and dirt bikes and that's deadly enough without being inebriated.

It should be kept strictly illegal except in the case of some diseases, not bullshit excuses like anxiety

I respect your choice but you understand that though we're all the same species we're not all identically alike, right? While the hardware of out brains is pretty much the same across the board the chemical software (if you will) can be quite different between us. Let me just relate a couple anecdotes in my explanation. I had an artist friend in university who always refused weed when it was being passed around. He wasn't being a judgmental dick about it though. He'd simply explain that he didn't need it because his brain was there already. After getting to know this guy awhile I can confirm that was true about him. His mind naturally went to fantastic places on it's own. However, we're not all so fortunate to be born with that ability innate and there are certainly a lot of examples of people born with artistic proclivities that have used drugs to great effect to enhance this aspect of themselves.

Similarly, I was at a party back in the Miami Vice days. It was a big lavish party that was actually at a drug dealers house (Not a personal friend of mine but was friends with the friend I went there with  ;)) Anyway, at one point the cocaine came out and was being passed around. I'd never tried it before and figured I probably wouldn't get a better opportunity to so when the mirror came by with these big, fat rails on them I snorted a few back. I was surprised at the effect it had on me because it seemed to be the opposite of what everyone else was experiencing. I felt VERY docile and relaxed whereas everyone else got overly talkative and hyped up. I've come to think that on some biochemical level my brain is already inherently "coked up" and thus the opposite effect. We're all a little different and our needs are too.  ;)

Hog

Quote from: Philosopher on September 09, 2016, 12:56:22 PM
Hmmmm... legalized pot = more heroin use?

http://www.9news.com/news/health/heroin-overdose-deaths-increase-in-colorado/212448459
No, banning the distribution of Oxycontin in North America leads to increased Heroin use.  Dont people get it yet, if people wanna get high, they will.  Spend the money on education and rehabilitation.  The War on Drugs is a monumental failure.

peace
Hog

Hog

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 02:32:53 PM
Dude, alcohol IS a drug...and so are lots of other things already in market. That box IS open. The genie has long been out of the bottle. Good luck getting the toothpaste back in the tube.  ;)
The majority of people who consume alcohol who think that it isnt a drug.  Alcohol use and abuse is so socially accepted, while having a toke is sacreligious.

Round here we call an "eighth" a half-quarter.

peace
Hog

Hog

Quote from: norland2424 on September 09, 2016, 06:58:15 PM
Dr Md MD high on that heroin laced weed  :'( :'(
No he's a physician and has an endless supply of benzodioazepines.  A couple Valium tends to chill even the most ardent tightwind.

peace
Hog

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: norland2424 on September 09, 2016, 06:58:15 PM
Dr Md MD high on that heroin laced weed  :'( :'(

Don't you have some people you need to drop out of helicopters for Hillary or something?  ::)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Hog on September 09, 2016, 07:26:06 PM
No he's a physician and has an endless supply of benzodioazepines.  A couple Valium tends to chill even the most ardent tightwind.

peace
Hog

FYI: They'll usually snap anyone out of a bad hallucination too, for those that might be experimenting with such things.

norland2424

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 07:26:33 PM
Don't you have some people you need to drop out of helicopters for Hillary or something?  ::)

lol dont you see satire when you read it buddy  ::), im agreeing with what your saying in here

K_Dubb

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 07:16:26 PM
I respect your choice but you understand that though we're all the same species we're not all identically alike, right? While the hardware of out brains is pretty much the same across the board the chemical software (if you will) can be quite different between us.

Agree with your observations.  Those friends who seem most drawn to weed are those wound pretty tight.

I grew up shy and introverted.  I owe what few social skills I have entirely to behaviors learned while drinking.  Alcohol has caused a few problems, but the benefits far outweigh them.  As a drug, one might even call it therapeutic.


Dr. MD MD

Quote from: norland2424 on September 09, 2016, 07:31:28 PM
lol dont you see satire when you read it buddy  ::), im agreeing with what your saying in here

I know. I still thought my zinger was kinda funny though.  :P

norland2424

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on September 09, 2016, 07:42:01 PM
I know. I still thought my zinger was kinda funny though.  :P

lol both candidates should be thrown out a helicopter by the reanimated corpse of George Washington lol

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