Marijuana

[Dr. MD MD]

Losing marijuana business, Mexican cartels push heroin and meth


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/losing-marijuana-business-mexican-cartels-push-heroin-and-meth/2015/01/11/91fe44ce-8532-11e4-abcf-5a3d7b3b20b8_story.html

Well, at least your avatar is a clown. People can take that as a warning label: Warning! Post may contain no actual facts. 

[Dr. MD MD]

Drugs wreck so many families and I include marijuana use too.   That was the gateway drug for my brother and it set him on a course of self-destruction.  We have friends who have used pot in the past and they became very hooked on it and were practically worthless.  They couldn't hold a job and they didn't give a rat's ass about anything.  They have since gotten off of the pot and are leading productive lives once again.  I've tried marijuana and it didn't do much for me.  Sure, it has positive uses for those beset with certain medical conditions and it should be prescribed to those patients who might be helped.  Otherwise I have no use for it.

Feels before realz, bro. Show me some actual proof that your feelings represent objective reality.

[Yorkshire pud]

While this is tragic I object to the title of the thread, which is obviously meant to associate heroin with all other drugs (or at least the ones you don't like). Nice try but Mr. Mackey already beat you to it.

If you're going to suggest that class A and B narcotic abuse is a good thing then you'll need to do better than that. It isn't just the users that get fucked; its their familes. I was burgled because the fuck needed the money to buy shit. So I paid for it too. Its the mules who get killed because the customers who buy it are a lucrative end point. So please please don't try and sell the myth that its all furry bunnies and big fluffy clouds.

[Dr. MD MD]

Drugs wreck so many families and I include marijuana use too.   That was the gateway drug for my brother and it set him on a course of self-destruction.  We have friends who have used pot in the past and they became very hooked on it and were practically worthless.  They couldn't hold a job and they didn't give a rat's ass about anything.  They have since gotten off of the pot and are leading productive lives once again.  I've tried marijuana and it didn't do much for me.  Sure, it has positive uses for those beset with certain medical conditions and it should be prescribed to those patients who might be helped.  Otherwise I have no use for it.

Do you use any drugs?

[Yorkshire pud]

Feels before realz, bro. Show me some actual proof that your feelings represent objective reality.

Touchy aren't you? You needing a fix?

[Dr. MD MD]

If you're going to suggest that class A and B narcotic abuse is a good thing then you'll need to do better than that. It isn't just the users that get fucked; its their familes. I was burgled because the fuck needed the money to buy shit. So I paid for it too. Its the mules who get killed because the customers who buy it are a lucrative end point. So please please don't try and sell the myth that its all furry bunnies and big fluffy clouds.

I'm not saying there aren't people who have problems with drugs but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some drugs have simply been wrongly classified for political reasons. Do you actually think marijuana is a narcotic?

[Dr. MD MD]

Touchy aren't you? You needing a fix?

It's touchy to call people on their bullshit now?!

[Philosopher]

Well, at least your avatar is a clown. People can take that as a warning label: Warning! Post may contain no actual facts. 

At least I am a real doctor (PhD) playing a clown.  You appear to be a real clown playing a "Dr. MD MD".

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm not saying there aren't people who have problems with drugs but I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water. Some drugs have simply been wrongly classified for political reasons. Do you actually think marijuana is a narcotic?

Yes, in the same way tobacco is. If Tobacco was discovered now it would be class A, no question. Beer was only invented by monks because the water was undrinkable, but booze kills thousands a year, either directly or indirectly. Just because both are legal doesn't mean Dope should be, Its been very well manipulated under the guise of 'medicinal'. Oh bingo, we'll sell it now under medicinal even if it isn't. Cynical marketing, much?

[Yorkshire pud]

It's touchy to call people on their bullshit now?!

What exactly are you saying is bullshit?

[21st Century Man]

Do you use any drugs?

No.  Just alcohol occasionally mostly when I go out to eat.

[Philosopher]

As US states liberalize pot laws, Netherlands reverses course ... because the US is full of idiots.


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/03/07/as-us-states-liberalize-pot-laws-netherlands-reverses-course-with-unexpected/

[Dr. MD MD]

No.  Just alcohol occasionally mostly when I go out to eat.

So, you use it responsibly but understand that it can be VERY destructive and destroy peoples lives, right? Do you think you should forego your enjoyment of it because of the potential problem it might be to others?

[albrecht]

Yes, in the same way tobacco is. If Tobacco was discovered now it would be class A, no question. Beer was only invented by monks because the water was undrinkable, but booze kills thousands a year, either directly or indirectly. Just because both are legal doesn't mean Dope should be, Its been very well manipulated under the guise of 'medicinal'. Oh bingo, we'll sell it now under medicinal even if it isn't. Cynical marketing, much?

We've tried it before (prohibition on alcohol) and the results were disastrous. If there is a linkage between marijuana use and hard drugs it is more likely because in order to get marijuana here (at least until recently) was from drug dealers who also might trade in stronger drugs with a higher profit margin and want to escalate their customers to those products. And once you get 'into the system' say for a pot bust now you have a criminal record. Good luck on your job seeking and what jobs are open to you? Drug dealing or committing theft etc. Clearly more damage is done by alcohol and tobacco (of course more people use it but due to cultural reasons I don't see that going away anytime soon, though smoking rates have dropped it seems. But those addicts can often lead 'productive' lives and can 'function' in society because it is acceptable.) But you are right that simply because legal drugs are bad doesn't mean illegal ones are good. But:
1) likely you can't eliminate addiction or use so the question is try to mitigate the harmful effects. A legal market, at least for some with age limits etc, would at least make drugs more stable or pure and customers (and doctors) would know what a person was using. Not like with these synthetics or homemade meth causing chaos in places. Think of bootleg moonshine verses a government sanctioned bottled-in-bond whiskey.
2) other countries have decriminalized or even legalized and they have less drug use across the board than the US or UK (Portugal comes to mind etc) and this also could, if done in larger countries, take out the cartels and turn it into a stable, orderly business with less violence.
3) some people are just fucked and likely will never be able to quit. Should we kill them like Philippians or Indonesia, throw them into and out of prison and allow to commit more and more crime, like the USA, or try to treat them medically or even allow them to 'shoot up' at a government facility to curb their urges and give them 'beer money' for sweeping the streets like Amsterdam is doing? Less property and violent crime should be the goal.

[Dr. MD MD]

What exactly are you saying is bullshit?

Trying to correlate marijuana use to heroin use as a gateway drug. Complete and utter bullshit. Show me some real science on this, bro...science that HASN"T been funded by the alcohol sellers.

[21st Century Man]

No disrespect, Dr. MD MD but I think loosening drug laws will have terrible effects on our society.  More people will start doing it and some will lose their jobs as a result.  Families will become more dysfunctional.  I see nothing good coming out of legalizing drugs for anything other than medicinal purposes. 

I'm all for people having the freedom to do what they want but only as long as no harm comes to other folks as a result.  Unfortunately the family is adversely affected by members who have the habit and become dysfunctional.

[Yorkshire pud]

So, you use it responsibly but understand that it can be VERY destructive and destroy peoples lives, right? Do you think you should forego your enjoyment of it because of the potential problem it might be to others?

You seem to be an advocate of Pot? Yes? You're aware then that it prevents the brain fully forming in young adults? Naturally it is complete by the age of about 24, but taking dope in the teenage/early twenties stops that formation..The problem is, is that the bit that doesn't join up controls reasoning. Which is why when we're old farts we shake our heads at the idiotic things we did as teenagers. It wasn't because we were necessarily 'idiotic'; but our brains hadn't yet developed to say 'now is that really a good idea?'

WE therefore grow out of it, but a fully fledged dope user won't, ever. And will continue to do idiotic things more than would be normal because they can't reason to do anything else.

[21st Century Man]

So, you use it responsibly but understand that it can be VERY destructive and destroy peoples lives, right? Do you think you should forego your enjoyment of it because of the potential problem it might be to others?

I understand your point but the thing is it(marijuana use) was destructive to my family so I can't defend it.  It is a very personal issue with me.

[Philosopher]

You seem to be an advocate of Pot? Yes? You're aware then that it prevents the brain fully forming in young adults? Naturally it is complete by the age of about 24, but taking dope in the teenage/early twenties stops that formation..The problem is, is that the bit that doesn't join up controls reasoning. Which is why when we're old farts we shake our heads at the idiotic things we did as teenagers. It wasn't because we were necessarily 'idiotic'; but our brains hadn't yet developed to say 'now is that really a good idea?'

WE therefore grow out of it, but a fully fledged dope user won't, ever. And will continue to do idiotic things more than would be normal because they can't reason to do anything else.

Do you know how politically incorrect your post is?  It does not matter that it is true.

[Yorkshire pud]

Trying to correlate marijuana use to heroin use as a gateway drug. Complete and utter bullshit. Show me some real science on this, bro...science that HASN"T been funded by the alcohol sellers.

Oh I didn't correlate Pot to heroin; I said drug addicts should be thrown in the sea. I don't know about the US< but in the UK the research isn't funded by the beer companies. Its usually done by the drug rehab charities. (Who cover all addictive substances)

[K_Dubb]

The legality of various drugs has always been, and should remain, a cultural question handled politically.  You will look in vain for any scientific logic behind it.  One culture can handle it, another can't.

The doctors behind the FDA should just be one more voice in the debate instead of the arbiter.  Allowing scientists that kind of power will lead to controlling sugar.

[Dr. MD MD]

No disrespect, Dr. MD MD but I think loosening drug laws will have terrible effects on our society.  More people will start doing it and some will lose their jobs as a result.  Families will become more dysfunctional.  I see nothing good coming out of legalizing drugs for anything other than medicinal purposes. 

I'm all for people having the freedom to do what they want but only as long as no harm comes to other folks as a result.  Unfortunately the family is adversely affected by members who have the habit and become dysfunctional.

You didn't answer my questions and again, these are your feelings. Some people have felt that sex is a bad thing too and want to restrict that as much as possible. We should just start running science according to popular feelings and let that dictate our politics.  :

[ItsOver]

Wow.  "Drugs are great" for increasing BellGab posting traffic.  All hail MV.

[albrecht]

The legality of various drugs has always been, and should remain, a cultural question handled politically.  You will look in vain for any scientific logic behind it.  One culture can handle it, another can't.

The doctors behind the FDA should just be one more voice in the debate instead of the arbiter.  Allowing scientists that kind of power will lead to controlling sugar.

The main reason why some areas in The Netherlands have 'cracked down' on smart shops (mushrooms, etc)  and coffee shops (weed) was due to drug tourism and usually foreigners who get rowdy (drinking also) and over do it, the increasing association with organized crime and 'harder drugs,' etc. Even when more legal they had a less pot smoking population per capita than the US where one could go to jail or prison. I'm not advocating it but it was the foreign elements, and pressure from international bodies and other countries, that caused the 'scene' to change. Same with the prostitution, and associated VICE, post communist collapse and post-Balkans a lot more non-consensual prostitution, human trafficking, other countries/bodies pressure about age of consent, certain porn, and Amsterdam especially becoming known for 'vice' and city leaders wanted to change that in modern times. Gentrification and real estate prices were a concern. They bought out a (in)famous Porn/Sex Lord who owned much of De Wallen and he retired with $$$.

[Yorkshire pud]

You didn't answer my questions and again, these are your feelings. Some people have felt that sex is a bad thing too and want to restrict that as much as possible. We should just start running science according to popular feelings and let that dictate our politics.  :

Oh foul! Since when did any political decision NOT involve or get dictated to by feelings? Its factual that the USA has the highest obesity rate of any country in the world. Yet where is the clamour from the population to do anything about it as far as demanding less or no sugar being fed to kids through food and drinks? Shouts of 'Nanny state' and 'Being controlled by 'them'. The 'feeling' in this case is that 'Parents know best; when demonstrably they clearly do not in many cases, (See the OP).

QED.

[albrecht]

Oh foul! Since when did any political decision NOT involve or get dictated to by feelings? Its factual that the USA has the highest obesity rate of any country in the world. Yet where is the clamour from the population to do anything about it as far as demanding less or no sugar being fed to kids through food and drinks? Shouts of 'Nanny state' and 'Being controlled by 'them'. The 'feeling' in this case is that 'Parents know best; when demonstrably they clearly do not in many cases, (See the OP).

QED.

We number #1!! Ha. You lot are only #3. Having said we have #2 swarming over our open-border and, at least here, are causing a lot of diabetes and obesity in our health-care system and schools. It also correlates with income and wealth. (Recall the infamous "food deserts" of Michelle Obama.) I've seen some articles about your NHS not taking, or putting on waiting lists, medical care for obese patients. Makes sense rationally. But where the lines are drawn can become problematic. One thing for sure I agree with when people get free food from the government they should only allow certain foods and not junk food, cokes, ice cream, etc. I had a tattooed fat lady rush into a gas station by me a few months ago and scream to the Paki behind the counter: "DO YOU TAKE EBT!! (a government food give-away program.) He nodded his head several times and said "EBT, EBT, yes, yes." She grabbed 5 pints of Haagen-Daas Ice Cream and threw them on the counter. Paid with her EBT card and she got into a beat up van in which an unsavory, but skinny, guy sat smoking a cigarette. She also had Handicap placard for her van.

[Dr. MD MD]

Oh I didn't correlate Pot to heroin; I said drug addicts should be thrown in the sea. I don't know about the US< but in the UK the research isn't funded by the beer companies. Its usually done by the drug rehab charities. (Who cover all addictive substances)

I didn't say you did. My issue is with this bullshit witchhunt thread in general. Jesus! Pay attention! You need some Adderall or something? 

[K_Dubb]

The main reason why some areas in The Netherlands have 'cracked down' on smart shops (mushrooms, etc)  and coffee shops (weed) was due to drug tourism and usually foreigners who get rowdy (drinking also) and over do it...

Thanks!  Yer makin' muh case.

Yet where is the clamour from the population to do anything about it as far as demanding less or no sugar being fed to kids through food and drinks?

So are you.

[21st Century Man]

You didn't answer my questions and again, these are your feelings. Some people have felt that sex is a bad thing too and want to restrict that as much as possible. We should just start running science according to popular feelings and let that dictate our politics.  :

I'm speaking from experience not feelings.

[Dr. MD MD]

You seem to be an advocate of Pot? Yes? You're aware then that it prevents the brain fully forming in young adults? Naturally it is complete by the age of about 24, but taking dope in the teenage/early twenties stops that formation..The problem is, is that the bit that doesn't join up controls reasoning. Which is why when we're old farts we shake our heads at the idiotic things we did as teenagers. It wasn't because we were necessarily 'idiotic'; but our brains hadn't yet developed to say 'now is that really a good idea?'

WE therefore grow out of it, but a fully fledged dope user won't, ever. And will continue to do idiotic things more than would be normal because they can't reason to do anything else.

Really?! The brain doesn't stop forming until you're in your twenties. Please, tell me more Mr. Wizard.  :

I'm for legalizing everything but, of course, there should be controls and limits. Nice strawman attempt though. 

The problem in making it a political football or a legal issue  is that it creates more problems than it solves but good luck with your witch hunt, guys. When you're done rounding up all the marijuana and heroin users just remember that your posse will get bored and look for something/someone else to go after and this time it might be you for something you do or value.