Author Warships  (Read 371 times)

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Warships
« on: May 07, 2020, 10:10:06 AM »
I believe that there are more than enough posts concerning warships (capabilities, operations/deployments, armament, collisions, incidents at sea involving foreign Navies, etc.) appearing in various threads to warrant starting a thread on the subject, so, here goes:


An Italian firm is chosen to build the next generation of U.S. Navy frigates. Whatís wrong with this picture? 


https://youtu.be/buA4ajpCtpQ


Warships
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2020, 10:19:28 AM »
We heard a lot of bluster from Iran after Trump ordered the Navy to sink Iranian gunboats that interfere with freedom of navigation but so far they are standing down. 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/04/23/iran-guard-commander-threatens-us-navy-after-trump-tweet/

Warships
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2020, 12:15:32 PM »
I believe that there are more than enough posts concerning warships (capabilities, operations/deployments, armament, collisions, incidents at sea involving foreign Navies, etc.) appearing in various threads to warrant starting a thread on the subject, so, here goes:


An Italian firm is chosen to build the next generation of U.S. Navy frigates. Whatís wrong with this picture? 


https://youtu.be/buA4ajpCtpQ
Heh, heh... are you thinking Fix It Again Tony? 


Warships
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2020, 03:31:31 PM »
Heh, heh... are you thinking Fix It Again Tony? 



The new frigates will be built at Fincantieri's shipyard in Wisconsin but it seems to me that awarding the contract to a foreign concern is not in keeping with Trump's MAGA aims and is a concession to globalism.  Also, I hope that the new frigates are a lot better than the Perry Class which had a lot of structural problems and were under gunned.  Frigate sailors didn't have much good to say about them. 


Warships
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2020, 03:36:58 PM »
I'm afraid the NWO disease is still even more prevalent than Corona Chan.

Warships
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2020, 03:46:50 PM »
The Germans said the Fiat tanks had one forward speed and three reverse. How do you put a reverse on a frigate?

Warships
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 03:53:59 PM »
The Renault tanks only had reverse.

Warships
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 04:06:11 PM »
The Renault tanks only had reverse.
Right. Thatís why the Italians were in the war longer.

Warships
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 06:17:04 PM »
Greyhound!  A new WWII movie with Tom Hanks.

Lots of CGI and lots of nagging little inaccuracies in the trailer but as the son of a WWII Destroyer sailor who spent most of the war in the North Atlantic, I am looking forward to this film. 

This is WAN's thoughts on the trailer - will be interesting to see what the thread's thoughts are on it.

Part I

At the 12 second mark we see three ships - the nearest one is obviously American, the middle is definitely not American and can not really tell about the third off in the distance.  The American ship is obviously a Destroyer.  The hull number is 548 - some quick research shows that DD 548 was to be a Fletcher class destroyer but that the order was cancelled.  So the film makers chose wisely for the hull number.  I am not a naval expert but to me it looks like a Benson/Gleaves class destroyer (Might be wishful thinking as that was the class of ship my Old Man spent his war on).  We see the two forward 5 inch gun turrets, the prominent gun director up top, the life raft and life boat behind the forecastle.   It's 1942 so at that time the Benson/Gleaves made up the bulk of the navy's destroyers.

Here is the USS Corry which was a Gleaves class from roughly the same angle.


The ship in the middle has squarish gun turrets, green paint instead of red lead at the water line and a prominent E80 painted in the middle of the hull.  None of those things indicate a US Navy escort vessel.
The E80 looks like a Royal Navy or Royal Canadian Navy pennant number.   The Old Man hated working with the Brits but liked the Canucks so hopefully she's Canadian.   ;)

At the 17 second mark we see a conning tower of a U-Boat operating on the surface.   It has a slavering wolf with demonic red eyes.  It is my understanding that the Kriegsmarine discouraged this as it helped to identify the boats, but most U-Boats had some sort of custom emblem.   Boys will be boys after all.  They normally were not that large and surprisingly most of them were not nearly as menacing as the wolf or the skull that shows up on a different boat a few seconds later.  A typical example is Bear drinking Milk from U-489:
 
Not exactly something to haunt your dreams!

At the 24 second mark we see a U-boat launching a torpedo at a destroyer silhouetted on the horizon.  While it looks cool in the movie, it is obvious that it is a terrible shot.  Definitely not nearly enough lead.   They'll miss by a mile!   Also it would be a pretty militant U-Boat skipper to tangle with a destroyer in daylight I would think.  Much better to operate at night.  We see lots of action through out the trailer during the daytime.  Probably a concession for visibility sake for the audience.   At the 26 second mark we see the torpedo hit pay dirt - US destroyer gets nailed right between the stacks.  Almost surely fatal. Not unheard of but unlikely - I think U-Boats torpedoed only about 5 US Navy DD's through out the war. They really concentrated on merchant shipping.

I have no idea what is going on at the 29 second mark - US Destroyer just raking a U-Boat running on the surface from a range of about 20 yards in broad daylight.  No one is manning the U-Boat's deck gun or 20mm!

At the 36 second mark we see Hanks.  He's not a young fellah and his lady (whom we see at the 44 second mark) is not exactly in the bloom of youth either.  He has a officer's uniform on with two thick gold stripes on the sleeve sandwiching a thinner gold stripe.   I believe that indicates he's a Lieutenant Commander.  Which means at his age he must not have been too damn successful.   He does have a ring on his right hand - perhaps an Annapolis class ring?  The Skipper of my Dad's ship was a Commander and was an Academy man.  He graduated way down in his class which is probably why he was just a Destroyer Captain and was in his mid to late 30's at the time.  Hanks really should be about three decades younger but what the hell!

At the 38 second mark we see the DD cutting through the water and letting the viewer know that the ride is rather rough.  Definitely not cruise ship smooth.
Then at 46 seconds we see the convoy - to me the formation of the merchant's looks correct.

At 54 seconds we hear Hanks tell the PBY that it is his first crossing and the crew giving him a bit of stink eye.  If it is earlier in 1942 - as we can surmise from the  blurb with the Christmas tree, the crew were probably all regular Navy and very well may have done quite of bit of escorting before the war was declared.   My Dad joined up after Pearl Harbor (not out of fervor but rather to avoid being drafted into the Army and sleeping in mud) and by the time he got through Basic and Torpedo School, he didn't go to sea until Mid-1942.

At 64 seconds we see a depth charge being launched from a K-gun.   Looks right on to me. At 1:06 we see some sort of escort vessel dropping depth charges - not sure what it is but it might end up T-boning the DD passing perpendicular to it.  Perhaps it is a US Coast Guard cutter or maybe a Canadian Corvette. The scene rolls to an oil slick at 1:07 with Hanks announcing somberly "We have a kill" to cheers from the crew.  From what the Old Man told me and from pictures that I've seen, the trauma inflected by depth charges on a submerged submarine is rather more drastic than a mere oil slick.  Lungs, guts, limbs and all kinds of flotsam should be in that slick as well.  Is the Hun pulling a fast one here?

To be continued.......

The trailer as a whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uOpseqTD4Q

Warships
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 06:25:05 PM »

Warships
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 06:38:46 PM »
::)



Wrong film.  Connery played the Boomer skipper.............


Warships
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 06:39:53 PM »
Wrong film.  Connery played the Boomer skipper.............



Why did that Russian sub commander have a Scottish accent?!

Warships
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 06:51:30 PM »
Why did that Russian sub commander have a Scottish accent?!

For the same reason the Spaniard did:


Also the same as the Scot with the French accent:

Warships
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 07:06:51 PM »
For the same reason the Spaniard did:


Also the same as the Scot with the French accent:


And that Franciscan monk too:


Warships
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2020, 07:56:22 PM »
We just lost 6 CAF members "Stalker-22" a C-148 Cyclone that was flying off the HMCS Fredrickton near Greece and was attempting to recover aboard the ship and crashed.  the ramp ceremony was yesterday.

It was my countries largest single military incident death toll since a 2007 when insurgents killed 6 CAF members over in sand land.

Anyhoo, here's the Fredrickton



Pro Patria!

peace
Hog

Warships
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2020, 09:11:32 AM »
My Dad was a gunnerís mate who served in the Navyís Armed Guard in the Pacific .


https://youtu.be/iqpOfvP_pyE

Warships
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2020, 10:15:07 AM »
Greyhound!  A new WWII movie with Tom Hanks.

At the 36 second mark we see Hanks.  He's not a young fellah and his lady (whom we see at the 44 second mark) is not exactly in the bloom of youth either.  He has a officer's uniform on with two thick gold stripes on the sleeve sandwiching a thinner gold stripe.   I believe that indicates he's a Lieutenant Commander.  Which means at his age he must not have been too damn successful.   He does have a ring on his right hand - perhaps an Annapolis class ring?  The Skipper of my Dad's ship was a Commander and was an Academy man.  He graduated way down in his class which is probably why he was just a Destroyer Captain and was in his mid to late 30's at the time.  Hanks really should be about three decades younger but what the hell!

Hanks wears the two and a half stripes of a LCDR at the beginning of the trailer but is shown later with scrambled eggs on his visor which means that he was promoted to full commander.  Promotions in the military came very slowly between the wars.  (Eisenhower was a LCOL at the beginning of WWII and so was Patton.)  I donít know how old Hanks is but the age of the character he portrays seems about right for that time.   A senior LCDR could easily be in the 35-40 age range. 

Agree with your other observations.  It would appear that the submarine fired on was forced to surface and couldnít man topside due to heavy fire or some kind of casualty.   If it did an emergency blow of main ballast tanks it would pop up like a cork and be a big surprise if it was in dead quiet mode beforehand. 

Warships
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2020, 11:13:08 AM »
Parts is parts.............    ;)


Warships
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2020, 01:48:12 PM »
Submarines are the ultimate death machines. Any country that has the ability to operate nuclear powered submarines, let alone having 3 Ohio class SSGN Guided Missile Submarine conversion subs surface at the same time is a pretty freaking good "show of force" without expending a single munition. That country is certainly a "SUPERPOWER" in every sense of the term.  I personally am proud to be in alliance with a force like that.
Peak-a-boo, I see you(and could slam 73 tons of explosives up your ass in short order)
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-did-us-navy-surface-3-submarines-same-time-asia-114731



The 4 SSBN(Ballistic Missile Submarine) to SSGN(Guided Missile Submarine) conversions took place because of strategic arms reduction treaties that limited the number of deployed SLBM(Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile) tubes the US Navy could carry. So they converted 4 Ohip class subs from Ballistic missile to Guided missile attack subs.  That reduced the total SLBM force by 96 tubes. But each of those former SLBM tubes was now a home for 7 vertically launched guided missiles.  The remaining Trident II SLBMs have had their MIRV(Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle) warheads reduced from the 8 they used to carry. from the previous SSBN designation of 4 of the conversions, surface simultaneously at three distinct points of the Earth each with 145 USS Michigan that puts a 1,000 pound High Explosive warhead directly upon or inside a window size target 1000 miles away.  What's that roughly 73 tons of ordnance from one sub.

ďIn July 2010, three SSGNs surfaced nearly simultaneously in Western Pacific and Indian Ocean waters, allegedly to signal U.S. displeasure over Chinese missile tests in the East China Sea.Ē

Major missile tests are potentially provocative and destabilizing. Americaís intent in the aftermath of the Chinese tests was to signal U.S. strength with just the right amount and kind of potential force.

"USS Michigan in Pusan, South Korea, the USS Ohio in Subic Bay, in The Philippines and the USS Florida in the strategic Indian Ocean outpost of Diego Garcia not only reflects the trend of escalating submarine activity in East Asia, but carries another threat as well"

"In November 2011, Lt. Britta Christianson became the first female officer, and first female overall, to qualify for service on a US Navy submarine, being assigned to Ohio's Gold Crew. (The first female enlisted sailor qualified in August 2016, assigned to sister boat, Michigan"

I found it disturbing to learn that there was a US boomer that launched in early 2020 with 2 of her SLBM tubes loaded with a Trident-II missile which is standard, but that these 2 missiles had a new super low yield warhead.  So in essence a SLBM launched tactical nuke.  IMO The smaller the warhead, the more apt it is to be used. But how does an adversary know if the incoming missiles are armed with the 475 kiloton strategic nuke or the smaller tactical nuke with say a 10 kiloton TNT equivalent?  FYI The nukes used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were sized
75 years ago, this happened.
Hiroshima 16 kilotons



For decades this image was commonly misidentified as the mushroom cloud of the Little Boy bomb that formed circa 8:15 local time. However due to its greater height and the wholly different time of day, it is the firestorm cloud*/the pyrocumulus cloud that occurs routinely over all firestorms. A Pyrocumulonimbus cloud(PyroCb) is another superior, although not widely accepted, meteorological classification.  It peaked 3 hours after detonation


Nagasaki-Fatman bomb exploded with the force equivalent to 21 thousand tins of TNT exploding=21 kilotons


Although many fires likewise burnt following the bombing, in contrast to Hiroshima where sufficient fuel density was available, no firestorm developed in Nagasaki as the damaged areas did not furnish enough fuel to generate the phenomenon. Instead, the ambient wind at the time pushed the fire spread along the valley.




But the small SLBM warhead is worrying.

The most powerful US atomic weapon is the B03 gavity bomb with a yield of 1.2 megatons or 75 times more powerful than the  Hiroshima bomb.  the B-2 stealth bomber can carry 16 B-83's on dual 8 bomb rotary launchers.

peace?
Hog

Warships
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2020, 03:13:56 PM »
Submarines are the ultimate death machines. Any country that has the ability to operate nuclear powered submarines, let alone having 3 Ohio class SSGN Guided Missile Submarine conversion subs surface at the same time is a pretty freaking good "show of force" without expending a single munition. That country is certainly a "SUPERPOWER" in every sense of the term.  I personally am proud to be in alliance with a force like that.
Peak-a-boo, I see you(and could slam 73 tons of explosives up your ass in short order)
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-did-us-navy-surface-3-submarines-same-time-asia-114731



The 4 SSBN(Ballistic Missile Submarine) to SSGN(Guided Missile Submarine) conversions took place because of strategic arms reduction treaties that limited the number of deployed SLBM(Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile) tubes the US Navy could carry. So they converted 4 Ohip class subs from Ballistic missile to Guided missile attack subs.  That reduced the total SLBM force by 96 tubes. But each of those former SLBM tubes was now a home for 7 vertically launched guided missiles.  The remaining Trident II SLBMs have had their MIRV(Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle) warheads reduced from the 8 they used to carry. from the previous SSBN designation of 4 of the conversions, surface simultaneously at three distinct points of the Earth each with 145 USS Michigan that puts a 1,000 pound High Explosive warhead directly upon or inside a window size target 1000 miles away.  What's that roughly 73 tons of ordnance from one sub.

ďIn July 2010, three SSGNs surfaced nearly simultaneously in Western Pacific and Indian Ocean waters, allegedly to signal U.S. displeasure over Chinese missile tests in the East China Sea.Ē

Major missile tests are potentially provocative and destabilizing. Americaís intent in the aftermath of the Chinese tests was to signal U.S. strength with just the right amount and kind of potential force.

"USS Michigan in Pusan, South Korea, the USS Ohio in Subic Bay, in The Philippines and the USS Florida in the strategic Indian Ocean outpost of Diego Garcia not only reflects the trend of escalating submarine activity in East Asia, but carries another threat as well"

"In November 2011, Lt. Britta Christianson became the first female officer, and first female overall, to qualify for service on a US Navy submarine, being assigned to Ohio's Gold Crew. (The first female enlisted sailor qualified in August 2016, assigned to sister boat, Michigan"

I found it disturbing to learn that there was a US boomer that launched in early 2020 with 2 of her SLBM tubes loaded with a Trident-II missile which is standard, but that these 2 missiles had a new super low yield warhead.  So in essence a SLBM launched tactical nuke.  IMO The smaller the warhead, the more apt it is to be used. But how does an adversary know if the incoming missiles are armed with the 475 kiloton strategic nuke or the smaller tactical nuke with say a 10 kiloton TNT equivalent?  FYI The nukes used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were sized
75 years ago, this happened.
Hiroshima 16 kilotons



For decades this image was commonly misidentified as the mushroom cloud of the Little Boy bomb that formed circa 8:15 local time. However due to its greater height and the wholly different time of day, it is the firestorm cloud*/the pyrocumulus cloud that occurs routinely over all firestorms. A Pyrocumulonimbus cloud(PyroCb) is another superior, although not widely accepted, meteorological classification.  It peaked 3 hours after detonation


Nagasaki-Fatman bomb exploded with the force equivalent to 21 thousand tins of TNT exploding=21 kilotons


Although many fires likewise burnt following the bombing, in contrast to Hiroshima where sufficient fuel density was available, no firestorm developed in Nagasaki as the damaged areas did not furnish enough fuel to generate the phenomenon. Instead, the ambient wind at the time pushed the fire spread along the valley.




But the small SLBM warhead is worrying.

The most powerful US atomic weapon is the B03 gavity bomb with a yield of 1.2 megatons or 75 times more powerful than the  Hiroshima bomb.  the B-2 stealth bomber can carry 16 B-83's on dual 8 bomb rotary launchers.

peace?
Hog

We have stocked variable yield nukes ever since at least the 1970ís.  Iím not familiar with the detailed design but we used to call them dial-a-yield on the bombs and SRAMs on the FB-111A swing wing bombers. The same weapons were used on the B-1 while they were nuclear capable. SRAMs were replaced by the ACLM.

Some of them could be dialed quite low. Obviously none were ever detonated.

I donít think we stock any nuclear artillery shells like we used to maintain along the Iron curtain.  I believe those were like 1kt.

I spent the first 4 years at Plattsburgh AFB certifying the aircrews for their alert sorties, but the last 4 years were at HQ/SAC where we picked all the targets and assigned all the nuclear weapons for all of the bomber, ICBMs and SLBMs for what was called the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP). When Reagan got elected we may have been tasked with developing Limited Nuclear Options (LNO). If such plans had been developed the analysts would have certainly been tasked with designing such an attack as to make it clear to an adversary that it was indeed a limited yet lethal attack.

After 8 years of working on stuff I hoped would never get used, I got out to work on the space program where I could actually see the results of my work get used.

Warships
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2020, 04:07:27 PM »
Wonder what the tug delivered?



Warships
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2020, 04:52:03 PM »
Wonder what the tug delivered?



Hrydoxy?

Warships
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2020, 04:57:32 PM »
Hanks wears the two and a half stripes of a LCDR at the beginning of the trailer but is shown later with scrambled eggs on his visor which means that he was promoted to full commander.  Promotions in the military came very slowly between the wars.  (Eisenhower was a LCOL at the beginning of WWII and so was Patton.)  I donít know how old Hanks is but the age of the character he portrays seems about right for that time.   A senior LCDR could easily be in the 35-40 age range. 

Awrite.  I learned something.  Hanks is in his early 60's.  So he is a bit long in the tooth but looks like he pulls it off okay.

Warships
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2020, 05:00:19 PM »
Lots of good warship action in The Enemy Below as it was filmed on a real DE.    This was my Dad's favorite movie...............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi4gvYSqRFo

Also there has some been some debate if that is a young, uncredited, Clint Eastwood at 28:28 reporting that the Magazine was all set.  I don't see it personally.

Warships
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2020, 05:32:46 PM »

Warships
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2020, 05:58:39 PM »
ARM Reformador - brand spanking new, long range patrol vessel of the Mexican Navy.


Warships
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2020, 07:48:50 PM »
ARM Reformador - brand spanking new, long range patrol vessel of the Mexican Navy.



That's a lot of warship for a country like Mexico.  SAMs and Harpoons?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2019/12/video-mexican-navy-pola-class-arm-reformador-completes-acceptance-trials/

Warships
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2020, 08:26:29 PM »
That's a lot of warship for a country like Mexico.  SAMs and Harpoons?

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2019/12/video-mexican-navy-pola-class-arm-reformador-completes-acceptance-trials/

and they want 7 more.  4 for the Atlantic and 4 for the Pacific.  Two ocean Navy down Mexico way!

Warships
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2020, 09:44:57 PM »
Whoopsie Daisy

Invalid Tweet ID

Warships
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2020, 07:14:29 AM »
Whoopsie Daisy

Invalid Tweet ID

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys.