Aviation Thread - News, facts, questions, photos, videos, etc.

[Taaroa]

http://www.newser.com/story/248421/air-force-confirms-pilot-died-in-crash-at-training-range.html

Wonder what he was flying?

Maybe it was a non American aircraft type?

https://theaviationist.com/2017/01/06/these-crazy-photos-show-a-russian-su-27-flanker-dogfighting-with-a-u-s-air-force-f-16-inside-area-51/

[GravitySucks]

Maybe it was a non American aircraft type?

https://theaviationist.com/2017/01/06/these-crazy-photos-show-a-russian-su-27-flanker-dogfighting-with-a-u-s-air-force-f-16-inside-area-51/

They mention that the aircraft was from the AF Material Command. To me, that implies a black R&D program.

The Air Force Aggressor Squadrons that fly out of Nellis for Red Flag/ dissimilar aircraft training are assigned to the 57th Wing which is part of the Air Combat Command.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Wing

[Uncle Duke]

They mention that the aircraft was from the AF Material Command. To me, that implies a black R&D program.

The Air Force Aggressor Squadrons that fly out of Nellis for Red Flag/ dissimilar aircraft training are assigned to the 57th Wing which is part of the Air Combat Command.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/57th_Wing

My thoughts as well, especially once I read the background of the O-5 who was lost in the mishap. He was no ordinary fighter jock, the guy had six university degrees, including a PhD in aerospace engineering. Sounds like a research test pilot. 

Taaroa's idea does potentially have merit, however.  Back in the mid 80s we lost a three star when he died flying a classified a/c out of Groome.  A couple different stories were leaked to muddy the waters, and soon interest in the mishap was lost.  A few years later when I got read in to the Special Projects SPO, I asked what the GO had been flying when he died.  All they knew was it had not been one of their (stealth) a/c, but since none of them were read in to Peg, they didn't know about the MiG-23 the general was flying when he was killed. 

[Yorkshire pud]

 An interesting unbroken aviation record I found out today. A Spitfire PRXIX flown by Flight Lieutenant Ted Powles flew Spitfire PS852 in February 1952,  to 51,500ft during a reconnaissance flight over the Chinese Island of Hainan. I assume it was pressurised to do that.

[pate]

Eywuz wahndering if(en) woz 'bout,



nose-art that survived from any flying types, mmm?

ediot:  My bad!+;

An interesting unbroken aviation record I found out today. A Spitfire PRXIX flown by Flight Lieutenant Ted Powles flew Spitfire PS852 in February 1952,  to 51,500ft during a reconnaissance flight over the Chinese Island of Hainan. I assume it was pressurised to do that.

didnatice, dinotice, erm..,

[Uncle Duke]

An interesting unbroken aviation record I found out today. A Spitfire PRXIX flown by Flight Lieutenant Ted Powles flew Spitfire PS852 in February 1952,  to 51,500ft during a reconnaissance flight over the Chinese Island of Hainan. I assume it was pressurised to do that.

The RAF had pressurized Spitfires as early as 1941/42, Mk 7s designed to shoot down Luftwaffe Ju-86P (diesel engined) bomber/recon aircraft over the UK at extreme altitudes.


So what is the record?  Highest operational flight by a single piston engine aircraft?

[Taaroa]

The RAF had pressurized Spitfires as early as 1941/42, Mk 7s designed to shoot down Luftwaffe Ju-86 (diesel engined) bomber/recon aircraft over the UK at extreme altitudes.


So what is the record?  Highest operational flight by a single piston engine aircraft?

Maybe operational is the key word, since the record for highest single piston engine flight was:

The highest altitude obtained in a piston-driven propeller biplane (without a payload) was 17,083 m (56,047 ft) on October 22, 1938 by Mario Pezzi at Montecelio, Italy in a Caproni Ca.161 driven by a Piaggio XI R.C. engine.

[Uncle Duke]

Maybe operational is the key word, since the record for highest single piston engine flight was:

Now THAT is a prop!

[pate]

One must rely on unsubstantiated testimony for some things.

When honor is involved, I shouldn'a typo-d @...

We await the imitable evedince

[Yorkshire pud]

The RAF had pressurized Spitfires as early as 1941/42, Mk 7s designed to shoot down Luftwaffe Ju-86P (diesel engined) bomber/recon aircraft over the UK at extreme altitudes.


So what is the record?  Highest operational flight by a single piston engine aircraft?

Yeah...Oops, I forgot to mention that. Lol.

[Taaroa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul7LE_oWdHw

[Yorkshire pud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul7LE_oWdHw

The Red Arrows did a display a few years ago with a new BA A380. The turbulance coming off the wingtips must have been quite hefty.

https://youtu.be/knIe-LezLH4

[Dr. MD MD]

The Red Arrows did a display a few years ago with a new BA A380. The turbulance coming off the wingtips must have been quite hefty.

Probably but not half as hefty as the amount of bullshit you post here. 

[Taaroa]

The turbulance coming off the wingtips must have been quite hefty.

I don't think that's really an issue for the locations where the Hawks are flying, but the A380 is in a unique ATC separation class (Super Heavy) because it generates more wake turbulence than the Heavy class (which includes 747s).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYu-nIRc0ck

[Taaroa]

https://youtu.be/tn_rZMJ42hc

https://youtu.be/ridsdx4mJtI

https://youtu.be/h1AX1MbffyY?t=220

[damon]

Here is a news article about a world war 2 ACE from Auburn California.

http://www.auburnjournal.com/article/5/16/15/monument-honors-world-war-ii-flying-ace

[Taaroa]

Maybe it was a non American aircraft type?

https://theaviationist.com/2017/01/06/these-crazy-photos-show-a-russian-su-27-flanker-dogfighting-with-a-u-s-air-force-f-16-inside-area-51/

Article is in Russian, but this is the gist of it:

Magomed Tolboyev, the test pilot for Soviet Buran space shuttle, said he had been in contact with the late Lt. Col. Eric Schultz a month ago.Tolboyev said he warned Schultz not to carry out a certain maneuver that Tolboyev had performed on a Russian aircraft. The type of aircraft and maneuver was not disclosed in the article.
“You’ll perish, you can not do what I do.”

https://govoritmoskva.ru/news/134796/

[Walks_At_Night]

Small plane slams into 2 elk, spins to a stop, pilot and passenger OK

Well that sure would have sucked..........   Seems like large mammal strikes do happen from time to time

[Uncle Duke]

Article is in Russian, but this is the gist of it:
https://govoritmoskva.ru/news/134796/

A guy like that would have a pretty cosmic security clearance.  With a clearance like that, it is required to report having contact with any foreign national. Failing to do so will cost you your clearance.  Discussing/acknowledging a classified project with a foreign national will send you to jail.  Schultz may have died flying a Russian a/c, but taking about that a/c with a Russian test pilot I find unlikely.

[Yorkshire pud]

A guy like that would have a pretty cosmic security clearance.  With a clearance like that, it is required to report having contact with any foreign national. Failing to do so will cost you your clearance.  Discussing/acknowledging a classified project with a foreign national will send you to jail.  Schultz may have died flying a Russian a/c, but taking about that a/c with a Russian test pilot I find unlikely.

Is there any chance the Russian defected when it was the USSR or just moved from Russia and is now  US citizen?

[Uncle Duke]

Is there any chance the Russian defected when it was the USSR or just moved from Russia and is now  US citizen?

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/14405/report-claims-famed-russian-test-pilot-warned-schultz-before-fatal-crash-near-area-51

Sounds like he's still in Russia.

[GravitySucks]

A guy like that would have a pretty cosmic security clearance.  With a clearance like that, it is required to report having contact with any foreign national. Failing to do so will cost you your clearance.  Discussing/acknowledging a classified project with a foreign national will send you to jail.  Schultz may have died flying a Russian a/c, but taking about that a/c with a Russian test pilot I find unlikely.

Possible?

http://air-usa.com/capabilities

[Uncle Duke]

Possible?

http://air-usa.com/capabilities

Sorry GS, I don't get the question.  Air-USA is one of a number of contractors flying former military, high performance a/c in the combat training role for the US military.  How are you tying them into the loss of a classified a/c or the mishap pilot's alleged communication with a former Russian military test pilot?

[GravitySucks]

Sorry GS, I don't get the question.  Air-USA is one of a number of contractors flying former military, high performance a/c in the combat training role for the US military.  How are you tying them into the loss of a classified a/c or the mishap pilot's alleged communication with a former Russian military test pilot?

In the details it implies that they use current and former US Air Force pilots and ordnance handlers.

And they at least fly the Mig-29

[GravitySucks]

Duke,

What I was doing was surfing around trying to find out what types of Russian aircraft we might have in the inventory. Logical candidates include ex Soviet states like the Ukraine, countries like India and contractors like Air USA that may have purchased them on export license. Sorry for the disconnect.

Back when I was at Red Flag we had lots of Soviet stuff recovered thanks to the wars won by Israel.

[Uncle Duke]

In the details it implies that they use current and former US Air Force pilots and ordnance handlers.

And they at least fly the Mig-29

Oh, I see.  Yeah I took that "current" USAF pilots and ordnance handlers to mean Guard and Reserve types, not seconding active duty guys to a contractor in a commercial venture.  Not saying it couldn't happen, just that I would think it to be uncommon.  Besides, the USAF has had their own MiG-29s for sometime, bought them from Moldova in the late 90s.  That isn't classified now, there have been articles and books written about them.

[Taaroa]

A guy like that would have a pretty cosmic security clearance.  With a clearance like that, it is required to report having contact with any foreign national. Failing to do so will cost you your clearance.  Discussing/acknowledging a classified project with a foreign national will send you to jail.  Schultz may have died flying a Russian a/c, but taking about that a/c with a Russian test pilot I find unlikely.

What if it was part of his job to test the full capabilities of the aircraft? Arguably no one else knows the limits of an aircraft better than their test pilot, so reaching out to them might make sense in that context (and may even be required and approved for his job).

Seems like all this discussion and speculation about what was being flown could've been avoided if they had just said it was something like an F16 that he was flying when announcng the death.

[Jackstar]

What if

Nanotech did it.

[Taaroa]

Nanotech did it.

[Uncle Duke]

What if it was part of his job to test the full capabilities of the aircraft? Arguably no one else knows the limits of an aircraft better than their test pilot, so reaching out to them might make sense in that context (and may even be required and approved for his job).

Seems like all this discussion and speculation about what was being flown could've been avoided if they had just said it was something like an F16 that he was flying when announcng the death.

Even if that were true, why would the Russians willing provide such details to a potential adversary who acquired one of their most advanced a/c through questionable means?  I can assure you if the Russians somehow acquired an F-35, like buying/borrowing one from the Turks, Jon Beesley would not be answering qestions for them on flight characteristics gleaned through his hours of test flights.

You'd not see the military lie about something like the type of aircraft lost in a fatal mishap.  First they'd never get away with it, too many maintenance and cataloguing records that would have to be faked for either a legit a/c falsely claimed to have been lost or created for a fictional a/c to be written off.  Additionally, civil and criminal charges would come out of such a scenario when discovered.  They will just not identify a classified mishap a/c, better to let people speculate than to "out" a classified program or get caught up in a scandal/legal action resulting from some illegal cover-up.  I know of at least two mishaps where this was done in the 80s/90s.