Billy Meier - Michael Horn

[MichaelHorn]

http://theyflyblog.com/?p=3697

[MH is a Liar]

"Is there any evidence Meier wrote those letters in the 1950's?"

Yes. Surprise.

Err...and???

Wow.  You've managed to hit on what is probably the one answer that makes you look the absolute worst.  One  I wouldn't have even imagined was possible; your weaseliness does not fail to disappoint! Ok, Michael. What follows below is probably stating the obvious, but because you insist on acting like a child, I will explain things to you like one. 

The whole point of my last message of course was I wanted to give you an opportunity to prove you have the capacity to debate, despite the past overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  Unfortunately, you've failed miserably.  You would had come off better had you simply admitted to prior dishonesty.

I had asked you the same question three or four times in just last week, and once or twice more going back earlier in this thread.  You've never bothered to respond, despite the question being directly related to your hoity-toity bullshit links you post.  A moderator would obviously not let you get away with that.  But, now when pressed, you think you can just say "yes" and then quickly change subjects?  Bad boy, Michael!  You are getting too old for this smart-alecky stuff, it is not cute or becoming of big boys. 

And, again, this goes without saying, but here is what your answer implies, either:

A)  You're lying, or
B) In the event you do have evidence, you nevertheless have absolutely zero interest in a good faith debate, but only smug and self-serving bullshitting.

Presumably, the truth is probably a combination of both; you are both lying and obviously have zero interest in good faith discussion. 

I assume you are considering coming back with a 'no, no, you said if I answered the question...'.    Good luck with that. You are fooling absolutely no one.   Grow up, Michael

But you don't interact; your deep seated mental illness precludes it. You're a self gratifying narcissist.

Bingo.

[MichaelHorn]

Mr. Bingo, yes of course I have evidence.

Now that we've established that, can you please establish that you're not just a runaway computer program, etc.?

Then you will get more answers from me.

[MH is a Liar]

Mr. Bingo, yes of course I have evidence.

Now that we've established that, can you please establish that you're not just a runaway computer program, etc.?

Are you serious?  More of this?  You're STILL dodging?  No, we have not established you have evidence.  You simply said you did.  You were supposed to, ummmm, you know, offer the evidence.  This is unbelievable.  You're a grown man?  I'll give you evidence I am not a computer program when you give me evidence you are not a 6 year old with Benjamin Buttons disease.   Or maybe you are the AI -- and you appear to have a serious glitch in the software.  Apparently all social norms regarding conversational etiquette have been deleted from your program.

Or,  almost certainly, you are simply stalling in the hopes of coming up with some of that evidence.  You must understand why we cannot trust you Michael -- if you had evidence presumably you would have presented it sometime in the first 7 times I asked you about it.  Your games are hilarious.  But it appears you are running out of moves.

The sociopath exposed... this is almost getting uncomfortable to watch..

[MichaelHorn]

66 pages later and there are still anonymous dopes who try to pull this stuff?

If you were ANY kind of a real researcher - let alone real person - you would have found where I've long ago put forth the evidence.

As far as "social norms regarding conversational etiquette" goes, one of the first ones is to politely introduce yourself, if you can get past the obvious shame you have about yourself, probably your parents, family, etc.

[MH is a Liar]

Still, huh?  I've said things like "this is unbelievable" probably several times here...but can't say I'm surprised any more at this point. 

But I'll walk you through the obvious again--stubborn, oblivious, petulant child you are:

Because you come here trying to convince us all of Meier's authenticity, based in large part on these alleged 1950's letters, it would indeed break all "social norms regarding conversational etiquette" to repeatedly ignore a legitimate question about these letters... all while continuing to peddle your "corroborations" based on these letters.  And you wonder why no one takes you serious here?  Besides the fact that Meier obviously makes UFO's out of trash can lids, perhaps its because you are clearly a slimy and evasive lying sack of shit.

I didn't claim to be any kind of researcher.  I asked you a question and you ducked it.  About 8 times now.  And now you are complaining that I have not sought out everything you have ever written?  You can post all your bogus corroboration links here but you can't once post a link about this evidence that you have allegedly written about after being specific, repeatedly asked?  Again, Meier needs a new PR guy.

As for the rest of your comment, I'll just point out that... everyone here except you has a moniker, and no one has introduced themselves.  So, no, clearly I have not broken any social norms in that regard. You've come to an internet forum Michael, you are not going on a visit to meet your 17th wife's parents.  And your obsession with names is a little disconcerting.  We are having a debate about the Meier evidence, why do you continually try to make it a conversation about the debators?  Don't answer, the answer is perfectly clear.   

I would debate you Michael, its just you continually prove you are utterly incapable of such.  I'm not saying for sure I won't do it... its just you can't even answer one single simple question in a frank, good faith way.  Literally.  Not one.

So I don't know what to say anymore. And like I said before, witnessing this self-implosion unfold in real time is starting to get uncomfortable.   I fear for your [limited, yet remaining] sanity.   You used to actually have some fight in you.  I mean, granted you were never one to argue in the true sense of the word, but at least (in between the copious ad hominems) you would feign sincere debate by misdirecting to irrelevancies like Meier's supposed like of motive, or alleged good character.  But now you are just flopping around.  The image comes to mind of an incorrigible child kicking and knocking things off his desk after being reprimanded for his continual failures to follow the rules and to engage with the lesson material.

Nevertheless, if you eventually find one human bone in your weasel body - and demonstrate some degree of the intellectual honesty and non-evasiveness that this includes - then we'll talk about setting up that debate.  I'm not gonna get my hopes up at this point though.  But, its never too late to change Michael!  Good luck with that.

[MichaelHorn]

Well now, you meandering marmoset, when pompous, puffed-up, pseudonymous poseurs are soooo inept that they copy and paste foot-in-mouth statements like:

"obviously makes UFO's out of trash can lids"

...then it's obvious that they indeed haven't researched the case themselves but relied only on dolts who, like them, have some axe to grind...FOR REASONS THEY THEMSELVES NEITHER KNOW NOR CAN EXPLAIN. I hope that wasn't too loud but WHY haven't you troubled your little self to actually, thoroughly read and research:


http://www.tjresearch.info/Zahi_WCUFO%20Investigation.pdf

So, while you're all full of wrongtious indignation and not being taken even remotely seriously, hey, you don't deserve to be. You know that very long list of credits I proudly paste at every opportunity includes encounters and debates with actual skeptics...who never fare very well.

Learn something from the document - there's an AWFUL lot to learn, to think through and to set aside one's glib, pouty, attitude laden...attitude.

And before you start spouting off and sputtering, give this a try:

http://theyflyblog.com/2014/06/15/billy-meier-ufo-case-prove/

...and then debunk yourself when you get the same result.

Oh, I know, you're gonna be tempted to do the usual, "Well, Meier could've..." - giving him even more credit than he deserves - but resist the temptation and risk actually...learning something.

That's what you're begging for, right?

[chefist]

You should have called into the GabCast tonight, Michael!

[MichaelHorn]

I already had one headache scheduled but I wouldn't mind chatting with the folks there.

[littlechris]

You should have called into the GabCast tonight, Michael!

[MichaelHorn]

Wow, the fans are going wild! Well, if I actually get, you know, kinda invitified for a specific time and date, then I can also...prepare myself with ancient Mongolian chants, invoking the protection of their world famous barbecue and all that.

[chefist]

Wow, the fans are going wild! Well, if I actually get, you know, kinda invitified for a specific time and date, then I can also...prepare myself with ancient Mongolian chants, invoking the protection of their world famous barbecue and all that.

You can just call in...you always get through... That's the easiest way...MV will let you talk as long as you are interesting! Pretty simple...

[MH is a Liar]

 

That about sums up my feelings right now.

I think I'll just let you be now, I tried my best to pull you back into the world of the sane, but you are clearly beyond all hope.  I'll just provide a handy lil summary of our conversation here for the benefit of the reader:

1- Michael Horn shows up at this forum defending the Billy Meier hoax.  He repeatedly posts links to Meier's alleged "prophetic corroborations."  Many of these "corroborations" are based on letters Meier wrote supposedly in the 1950's.

2 - Roughly 8 times I ask for evidence that these letters were indeed published in 1950's.   Michael Horn--who's job, as I understand it, as "Official Billy Meier Representative" is literally to field questions on Billy Meier case--continually ignores my simple, legitimate question about the 1950's letters.

3 - Michael starts to get angry because I repeatedly expose that he is a liar.  He continues to dodge my question about the letters while simultaneously pretending he wants to debate me.

4 - I finally said I would happily debate him if he could prove he is capable of debate. All I asked of him in this regard was alas to simply point me to evidence about the publication date of the letters as I had already asked him umpteen times..

5 - Well, he finally addressed the question, and he now claims he does have evidence...but for some super secret and mysterious reason he  will not direct us to it, despite happily pointing us to all manner of false and irrelevant bullshit.  Reminds me of that guy at the bar who lets on to the woman that he has this super cool prestigious job, but of which "he is not allowed to talk about it."  Oh, Michael, you tease!  (Or, you lie.  I'll go with the latter.)

6 - Indeed, the inescapable conclusion: he is obvioiusly lying that he has evidence. Otherwise he would simply provide it.

I suppose he could have some small shaky piece of evidence, but he doesn't want to point me to it because then he knows I would have to sign up for the debate as I agreed to.  So I suppose it could be the case that he is lying about wanting to debate me, and not necessarily lying about having some evidence.  In any case, he is necessarily lying about one of the two (having evidence or wanting to debate me)...otherwise he would quit evading and simply provide the evidence. But most likely both are true: he doesn't want to debate me and he doesn't have evidence.  If he had evidence he would have gleefully offered it one of the first 7 times I asked him about it.

7 - And with his latest post, Michael apparently realizes the predicament he is in... he has written countless articles about these letters based on absolutely no evidence and now has lied about it...so now Michael does what he does best and tries to change topics again, trying to distract from the fact that he has just so clearly exposed himself as a lying sack of shit. 

Bonus #8  -  Oh, and in the meantime he posts a link to a blog of his entitled "Is Dave Hodges Plagiarizing Billy Meier?"  This could hardly get any more absurd.  Literally two days ago I posted information revealing that Billy Meier plagiarized the "Henoch Prophecies" from a man named Anton Johansson -- the exact same info MH is now claiming this Dave Hodges fellow "plagiarized" from Billy Meier.    I put plagiarized in the preceding sentence in quotes because if you actually read the blog post, what Michael is accusing Hodges of --despite the misleading title -- is not even plagiarism.  See:  http://theyflyblog.com/2016/04/04/is-dave-hodges-plagiarizing-billy-meier/       

One wonders whether Michael chose this completely inappropriate title because he wants to fudge up a google search that may contain the words Meier and plagiarize, to distract away from the clear-cut instances of true plagiarism that Mahigitam's website has recently uncovered:

http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/as-a-man-stealeth-billy-meier-and-his-stolen-spiritual-teachings/
http://www.billymeieruforesearch.com/miscellaneous/did-billy-meier-plagiarize-his-prophecies-and-predictions/

Yikes.  I really didn't set out to embarrass you, Michael.  You just keep lying while calling me names in the same breath...I just... I just don't know how you thought this wasn't going to backfire...

I feel like I am being really repetitive.  I don't mean to be, its just dealing with Horn's never-ending evasiveness and non-sequitors ... I dunno... start questioning my own sanity.    It's like I get all these twighlt zone moments lately talking to him -- this dialogue is coming at me, in a rich vocabulary and perfect grammer, yet...invariably it has no logical connection to what I have just said and/or it speaks of "facts" that had just been decisively debunked only moments or days ago.   It's like can he really be that self-unaware or am I missing something here?

Or at least I'm questioning my clarity in expressing myself, hence the repetition.  Sorry for that. Its just strange, I have never spoken to someone so slippery.

Anyway, still waiting on that evidence regarding the letters, Michael...until then, enjoy digging your own grave...

[MichaelHorn]

A couple of obvious points:

1. You COMPLETELY ignored the evidence - you are interested in evidence - refuting your sloppy accusations regarding the WCUFO, which you clearly...copied, plagiarized from the incompetent skeptics. So, since you can't substantiate the idiot defamatory charges you rushed to embrace, you're effectively libeling Meier because of your own very over confident ignorance.

2. Regarding the Henoch Prophecies (and more), why hasn't it occurred to you, genius that you fancy yourself to be, to check out when the earliest publication of the HP were available in German and then in English? Now, if you want to be a real researcher and not a...plagiarizer yourself, you'll:

Compare all of what AJ wrote with the Henoch Prophecies and note where the similarities are...and where Meier has whole other information as well.

Then you'll also note that in the HP, as in other prophecies and predictions from Meier, many of these different things happened - and continue to happen - well AFTER the earliest known publication date. This is so painfully obvious and easy to confirm that, of course, it's too much for wannabes who just want to "show off" their...stupidity.

Of course, if you're not just an armchair "expert", you'll go to the trouble to actually establish Meier's ACCESS to ANY material you claim he plagiarized and in...German, of course, because that's the language he speaks. This is ESSENTIAL, it relates to the means and opportunity part of means, motive and opportunity.

Please, don't make more of a fool of yourself by persisting in your impotent challenges without even considering these basics. If it finally penetrates your brain that your "theories" are useless and unprovable, then maybe you'll be ready to deal with the actual "how" of all this, about which I've been writing an article...and which has actually been a matter of record for 20 - 40 YEARS.

But you're all full of yourself, and some other stuff too.

Now, while you've tried to obfuscate your ineptitude and avoidance of dealing with your bogus, easily refuted bilge about the WCUFO, I'll be as persistent in demanding your accountability as you've tried to be, in your less than bright, less than well thought out and researched amateur manner.

And for the record, I've NEVER lied about anything in the Meier material. First though, address the above since you've been pushing so long to have "answers", many of which a high school student could have found with just a little...thinking.

[MichaelHorn]

P.S. Of course the one sigh of relief you'll be breathing is that, because you haven't had the courage, the integrity and honesty to use your real identity, - when challenging the character and truthfulness of others who exceed you by light years in those attributes and qualities - at least you're not suffering the public humiliation that you and your spineless associates rightly deserve.

But the beauty of how cause and effect unfailingly work is that ultimately your own conscience will pay you back, many times over, since you can't actually escape harvesting the "fruits of your labor". What you think you get away with in your impotent, puny attacks against others, will come back to you in full force, in its own time.

[MH is a Liar]

1. You COMPLETELY ignored the evidence - you are interested in evidence - refuting your sloppy accusations regarding the WCUFO, which you clearly...copied, plagiarized from the incompetent skeptics. So, since you can't substantiate the idiot defamatory charges you rushed to embrace, you're effectively libeling Meier because of your own very over confident ignorance.

And for the record, I've NEVER lied about anything in the Meier material. First though, address the above since you've been pushing so long to have "answers", many of which a high school student could have found with just a little...thinking.

It never ends huh?  This is the kind of twilight moments I was talking about.  You came here trying to convince us of something.  Not vice versa.   I asked you a question.  Repeatedly.  Answer it please. I am not avoiding anything.  Setting a topic aside for the moment is not avoidance -- I'm just desperately (albeit, futilely) trying to keep you on topic for once in your fucking conman career. Answer the question and I will be happy to further address WCUFO comment I made in passing.  I've spent several hours crafting messages here the last couple days that are solely focused on this letters issue. But, lying evasive shit that you are, you will not even bother to answer.  Because  OBVIOUSLY you have no answer. 

You have built a career on lies. And you say you have never lied about Meier evidence?  I've already revealed several here. 

Michael, despite you dragging your heels in the dirt like the petulant little shit that you are, I actually took it upon myself to try to find your alleged defense of the 1950's letters.  I found nothing.  Only links about how the 1950's letters are most certainly hoaxed.   Yes, I have pushed so long for answers.  You're happy to supply links to BS claims, so answer a question about them.  You should love this -- prove to us Meier is legit!  I beg of you.  Enlighten me.  But you won't, because you can't.

I will be happy to address WCUFO and the Henoch prophecies if you like (although, I don't think that will end up well for you).   If you first just answer the damn question I have asked now 10 times.  Again, you are the one who is trying to sell us on Meier, not vice versa.  So fucking sell us, and answer the damn question.

But you won't.  Because you have nothing.

Whoops, there I go being repetitive again.  I'm at my wits end.  But I trust that those who have eyes to see, will recognize what a blatant display of slimy dishonest evasion you've put on here the last couple days.

I go between amused and frustrated.  Clearly now I am frustrated.  Its just when you have someone so clearly lying to your face, and then you so clearly reveal to the person that you know they are lying, and yet they refuse to even acknowledge what has transpired...frustrating.  I at least thought you had the good sense to admit to deception, at least for self-interested reasons.  Better to admit to something that you demonstrably did and salvage reputation, than try to deny the obvious and be seen as utterly delusional/sociopathic.  Apparently it was a mistake to even attribute that small measure of good sense to you.

Take care Michael.  I hope Meier doesn't fire you. I know how he provides your life with meaning -- farcical as that meaning may be... 

[MH is a Liar]

First though, address the above since you've been pushing so long to have "answers", many of which a high school student could have found with just a little...thinking.

Michael.  I just spent another 15 minutes trying to find anything you have written about evidence that Meier wrote those letters in the 1950's.  Nothing.  It's been a while since high school, is there new tricks out there I don't know about?

Damn, jokes probably on me at this point -- that I would spend a minute looking for something that obviously doesn't exist.  I was giving you the benefit of the doubt I guess.  A mistake I've made a couple times now it appears:  giving you too much credit. 

Of course you don't have any evidence regarding the publication date.   I thought maybe there could possibly be some strange reason why you were holding back on us.  But no. Anyway. I tried Michael.  Unless you know some high schooler that can make the non-existent manifest for us, I'll be on my way.

Gotta say, this was a unique experience for  me.  I've visited your blog, and most of the participants can hardly put a coherent sentence together; it is no wonder they take refuge in cultic belief.  But I've never spoken to someone who was both perfectly articulate, and yet perfectly deranged.  An interesting case study for sure.   

I actually feel bad for you at this point.  May your followers never find this thread.  Be well.

[MichaelHorn]

Non-responsive, avoids dealing with the evidence that HE LIED about WCUFO, etc. (Maybe HIS initials are MH.)

Of course, exactly what's to be expected. When confronted with his own shoddy, inept, shallow, devoid of competence, so-called reasoning and logic...it's the now very familiar, "Hey, what was I thinking? I'm outta here!"

Feel free to post comments on my blog - under your real name - and let everyone know what you think and why.

I won't hold my breath.

So to be clear, the WCUFO has been independently shown to be a large, unknown object, with great detail, for which no terrestrial individual(s) or organization, etc., have come forward to take credit.

That should be sufficient to send all the critics back to their proverbial drawing boards and consider the rather immense and extensive implications.

And, as promised, in due time the entire issue of the prophecies, etc., will be again carefully explained. At least as important is the fact that - while they continue to unfold before everyone's sleepy eyes - people are more concerned with attacking Meier than recognizing that this country, and possibly their own lives, appear to have some looming expiration dates.

Maybe the now departing critic should go back to high school, learn how to think and develop...rational self-interest for their own survival, rather than trying to attack those who've spent a VERY long time sounding the alarm that stupid people prefer to sleep through.

[littlechris]

Mr.Horn,
I'm looking forward to your appearance on end of days radio on April 30th. Will you be debating Robert Sullivan? If so, why him? Do you and Mr.sullivan have history together? Or shall I say, do you two have beef with each other?

-Chris

[MichaelHorn]

Hi Chris,

Thanks, me to. No, there's a host there named Michael who may be the one debating/interviewing Mr. Sullivan.

[MichaelHorn]

...okay, that should be, "Thanks, me too."

[chefist]

Michael...George Senda is hosing a new GabCast on Friday! You really should call in...I'm sure he is very familiar with the BM story and will have great questions for you!

[MichaelHorn]

If George is familiar with the Meier case and wants to interview, question, challenge me on that would be fine. It would be best if he contacts me to arrange it, whether for this week or another time. (I may be at a meeting 7 - 9 Friday night)

[Yorkshire pud]

If George is familiar with the Meier case and wants to interview, question, challenge me on that would be fine. It would be best if he contacts me to arrange it, whether for this week or another time. (I may be at a meeting 7 - 9 Friday night)

Oh boy: one a deluded, narcissistic, fantasist with aspirations to convince the wider world they're credible and the other a deluded, narcissistic, fantasist with aspirations to convince the wider world they're credible. What could possibly go wrong?

[Falkie2013]

If George is familiar with the Meier case and wants to interview, question, challenge me on that would be fine. It would be best if he contacts me to arrange it, whether for this week or another time. (I may be at a meeting 7 - 9 Friday night)

Hmm. Got an email address ?
I will be contacting him today.
It's getting hot in this bedroom with all the lights on.

[Falkie2013]

Oh boy: one a deluded, narcissistic, fantasist with aspirations to convince the wider world they're credible and the other a deluded, narcissistic, fantasist with aspirations to convince the wider world they're credible. What could possibly go wrong?

What could possibly go wrong ?

YOU could continue to post in this thread and Her Majesty's Government would finally find you out and take you off the net for good as a danger to the Crown.

[chefist]

Hmm. Got an email address ?
I will be contacting him today.
It's getting hot in this bedroom with all the lights on.

Michael...Falkie is George Senda...the one and only host for the GabCast on Friday night! You two should PM and work it out! WOW, it will be an epic show! There will be a multitude of listeners!

[littlechris]

Hmm. Got an email address ?
I will be contacting him today.

NICE!!!! 

That's my boy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yorkshire pud]

What could possibly go wrong ?

YOU could continue to post in this thread and Her Majesty's Government would finally find you out and take you off the net for good as a danger to the Crown.

You fucking moron. You can't find your arse with both hands, so the likelihood of you working out how to do a podcast without supervision and/or someone doing it for you is remote. You stupid fuck.

[Yorkshire pud]

Michael...Falkie is George Senda...the one and only host for the GabCast on Friday night! You two should PM and work it out! WOW, it will be an epic show! There will be a multitude of listeners!

Those listeners will need paper bags to breath into because the hyperventilating after the laughing will require it. It will be a close call which of them comes across as being the furthest up their own arse.