Art teaches Airyn

[EvB]

This is the most personal I will ever get on this site and it will be the last time I'm such an open book.  I'm a private bastard.

Yesterday I visited the grave of a friend.  He was a tunnel rat in Vietnam.  He made it through that hellish experience, only to die in 2002 from a jacked up car falling on him while he was working on it. 
Lieutenant Corporal David Neil Adkins
U S Marine Corp
March 23, 1950 - November 5, 2002
Purple Heart

I'm sorry about your friend, Cam. Thanks for telling that story.

[EvB]

Errrrrrrrrrrrr . . .  I take it the image resize feature is one that needs to be reinstalled?

[Centurion73]

OMG!  Despite what I said about fearing to carry - I do have "target shoot" fantasies. Where could I get one of these puppies?  My birthday is coming up . . .

Any sporting goods store even a Walmart type store should have them, sounds like you're getting the fever from looking at the weapon porn MV submitted, here is some hardcore porn for you.

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[Frys Girl]

I have a big problem with Wal Mart selling guns. My grandfather was a gun store owner and I know there are lots of gun enthusiastic who are probably in business too. I wish more people would support those shops. You get much better information I'd assume.

[MV/Liberace!]

I have a big problem with Wal Mart selling guns. My grandfather was a gun store owner and I know there are lots of gun enthusiastic who are probably in business too. I wish more people would support those shops. You get much better information I'd assume.

i don't buy guns from walmart (generally).  however, i do buy ammo there.  gun stores just charge too much money for their ammo.

[danDNA]

i had a go on some guns when i was in USA, and i liked it, but i dont see how having one would stop some kid shooting other kids in school, i can however see how it would empower me in a road rage incident. maybe being in a country where we dont have the option to own handguns we dont see so many incidents involving the misuse (unless its the old bill shooting tourists in the head on a packed train), maybe not, im not trying to start an argument, just saying that given the choice i would shoot someone, as i feeel that the extra distance would allow me an advantage in a situation, but i would not be able to stab someone in the same situation, due to the close proximity needed to do such a thing.
you do know we all think you lot are obsessed with firearms dont you? in fact, probably most of the europeans i meet think that about americans, and judging by the promotion and persuasive prompting going on in this post, they would have a point. im not judging, im just saying, you close one lot of boards down due to lack of discussing GN sucking only to enthusiastically start one about guns, i mean art bell. 

[Frys Girl]

i had a go on some guns when i was in USA, and i liked it, but i dont see how having one would stop some kid shooting other kids in school, i can however see how it would empower me in a road rage incident. maybe being in a country where we dont have the option to own handguns we dont see so many incidents involving the misuse (unless its the old bill shooting tourists in the head on a packed train), maybe not, im not trying to start an argument, just saying that given the choice i would shoot someone, as i feeel that the extra distance would allow me an advantage in a situation, but i would not be able to stab someone in the same situation, due to the close proximity needed to do such a thing.
you do know we all think you lot are obsessed with firearms dont you? in fact, probably most of the europeans i meet think that about americans, and judging by the promotion and persuasive prompting going on in this post, they would have a point. im not judging, im just saying, you close one lot of boards down due to lack of discussing GN sucking only to enthusiastically start one about guns, i mean art bell. 

Hi Dan. It works for England, but it doesn't work for the USA. Our land is bigger (haha) and well, we were founded with a gun in the hand. Guns are part of American identity.

No guns is NEVER going to be an option here. So since we have to live with them, I'd rather hear about how to prevent monsters and creeps from getting them than how we can reduce guns in general.

[Centurion73]

i dont see how having one would stop some kid shooting other kids in school,

It would limit the number shot, killed, or harmed by eliminating that person "shooter" by killing them.

i can however see how it would empower me in a road rage incident.

Not how a responsible person should use one and not how anyone trained to use one is taught, this type of statement is disturbing if you would feel  empowered.

just saying that given the choice i would shoot someone, as i feeel that the extra distance would allow me an advantage in a situation,

Once again this is not what you use a weapon for to feel "extra distance? This is not directed at you but that is a rather pussyfied statement.

i would not be able to stab someone in the same situation, due to the close proximity needed to do such a thing.

I am sure if it was life or death you would stab whomever you had to to live and knives or edged weapons are more dangerous than guns.

you do know we all think you lot are obsessed with firearms dont you? in fact, probably most of the europeans i meet think that about americans,

That is interesting, you loose a colony that kicks the empires sorry ass all to hell without handguns I might add and you can judge? If it were not for American weapons and lives you and the rest of the Euro trash would be speaking Austrian right now, who you going to rely on your neighbor France?

Like I said not directed at you Dan but you really have no basis for your assumptions.

[attach=2]

[danDNA]

"If it were not for American weapons and lives you and the rest of the Euro trash would be speaking Austrian right now, who you going to rely on your neighbor France?" - how old are you anyway? why are you so bitter about it, was you in the war? or another war? why would you want to start all this shit? i dont care if you like guns, fucking shoot yourself in the foot for all i care, what am i not allowed to point somethin out now without you going all rotten on me? half the post was a joke, as anyone else would have known (i hope), the other half was genuine, i dont see how everyone having guns stops some kids feeling so left out that they go nuts in class. i would rather know why they do it, and address that, than just shoot them and go "another nutter is dead, good".

[Centurion73]

I'd rather hear about how to prevent monsters and creeps from getting them than how we can reduce guns in general.

This is how you do it

Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia --- Crime Rate Plummets

.

States and counties that have lifted the restrictive hold against ownership all have seen rates drop. Why? The bad people (criminal types) do not want to be shot and they do not know who or whom may be carrying.

Greenleaf, Idaho, adopted Ordinance 208, calling for its citizens to own guns and keep them ready in their homes in case of emergency. It?s not a response to high crime rates. As The Associated Press reported, ?Greenleaf doesn?t really have crime ... the most violent offense reported in the past two years was a fist fight.? Rather, it?s a statement about preparedness in the event of an emergency, and an effort to promote a culture of self-reliance.

To some degree, this is rational. Criminals, unsurprisingly, would rather break into a house where they aren?t at risk of being shot. As David Kopel noted in a 2001 article in The Arizona Law Review, burglars report that they try to avoid homes where armed residents are likely to be present. We see this phenomenon internationally, too, with the United States having a lower proportion of ?hot? burglaries ? break-ins where the burglars know the home to be occupied ? than countries with restrictive gun laws.

Likewise, in the event of disasters that leave law enforcement overwhelmed, armed citizens can play an important role in stanching crime. Armed neighborhood watches deterred looting in parts of Houston and New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Precisely because an armed populace can serve as an effective backup for law enforcement, the ownership of firearms was widely mandated during Colonial times, and the second Congress passed a statute in 1792 requiring adult male citizens to own guns.

Greenleaf?s mayor has estimated that 80 percent of the town?s residents already own guns, the new ordinance can?t make all that much of a difference. But criminals are likely to suspect that towns with laws like these on the books will be unsympathetic to malefactors in general, and to conclude that they will do better elsewhere.

To the extent that?s true, we?re likely to see other communities adopting similar laws so that criminals won?t see them as attractive alternatives. The result may be a different kind of ?gun control.?

Glenn Reynolds, a law professor at the University of Tennessee, is the author of the blog Instapundit and of ?An Army of Davids: How Markets and Technology are Empowering Ordinary People to Take on Big Government, Big Media and Other Goliaths.?

[Centurion73]

"If it were not for American weapons and lives you and the rest of the Euro trash would be speaking Austrian right now, who you going to rely on your neighbor France?" - how old are you anyway? why are you so bitter about it, was you in the war? or another war? why would you want to start all this shit? i dont care if you like guns, fucking shoot yourself in the foot for all i care, what am i not allowed to point somethin out now without you going all rotten on me? half the post was a joke, as anyone else would have known (i hope), the other half was genuine, i dont see how everyone having guns stops some kids feeling so left out that they go nuts in class. i would rather know why they do it, and address that, than just shoot them and go "another nutter is dead, good".

I lost family and people in that war yes, so I am entitled to comment. Like I said I do not have a problem with you and if your post was a joke I am sorry I did not get it. I would rather take out that kid before they go on a rampage and shoot 13 others whom had no beef with them like Clolumbine, or the 31 one that were shot in Virgina Tech for being in class at the wrong time. I agree with you that we should try and find out why they did it but I am not going to wait for the shooting to stop and 31 friends, family, children, maybe your brother or sister to be dead to find out why someone did this. My opinion only, I would rather take the shooter out and save the 28 he went on to shoot after he killed the first 3.

To answer your other questions yes, unfortunately I have been in a war and believe me it is not anything I would wish for anyone to do ever. Unfortunately we have way too many of your people and ours in a shit storm that never should have been started and most of them will be changed for life because of what you have to see or do. Sorry if I offended you it was not to be meant that way.

Opps I forgot, and George Noory sucks hairy donkey balls (now the post was related to Noory sucking).

[Frys Girl]

A couple near me was burgled recently. They were very active in our community and did a lot for under privileged children. Anyhow they were murdered for their computers and other crap by strangulation with cables. Not guns.

I don't think guns and homicide is the end all of the crime issues. OF COURSE guns are dangerous. That isn't the debate. Let's move on from this point. Staple guns are dangerous too. But we can be mature and learn not to abuse them right?

I also want to state for the George Noory Sucks record that I don't like the idea of people owning guns and just shooting random animals. I saw a video on youtube with a guy who was just shooting birds on his property. I guess there's nothing you can do. People are cruel.

[Frys Girl]

ONE other thing I want to say.

In 2005 in the suburbs of Washington, DC, a crazy woman in Nordstrom department store started stabbing people. An off duty person with a concealed gun shot her and stopped her.

There's an example of how guns can help an insane situation.

[Centurion73]

 Americans have the right and advantage of being armed ? unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. ? James Madison

A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. ? Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD.

To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. ? George Mason

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." --Thomas Jefferson

We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. - Patrick Henry

The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. ? Alexander Hamilton

...arms...discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. ...Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived the use of them. -- Thomas Paine

When they took the 4th Amendment, I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs.
When they took the 6th Amendment, I was quiet because I am innocent.
When they took the 2nd Amendment, I was quiet because I don't own a gun.
Now they have taken the 1st Amendment, and I can only be quiet.
? Lyle Myhr

To preserve the intent of the site and Mr. MV  I postulate that George Noory is an ass and there are rumors from someone named "Tommy" that he does in fact, SUCK, but then rinses.

[EvB]

you do know we all think you lot are obsessed with firearms dont you? in fact, probably most of the europeans i meet think that about americans, and judging by the promotion and persuasive prompting going on in this post, they would have a point. im not judging, im just saying, you close one lot of boards down due to lack of discussing GN sucking only to enthusiastically start one about guns, i mean art bell. 

Hey Dan,

Well, first - I (a person who is about as non-gun as you can get without actually being anti-gun) started the thread because I got a kick out of that picture of itty-bitty Airyn (and thanks to whomever fixed my badly botched topic title  ) with a big ol' weapon and an equally big grin. As has always been the case here - threads meander where they will. Such is life at GNS.

As for Americans being gun-obsessed, it's a big country with multiple layers of culture. Here in New England, very few people who do not have a professional reason to carry own or use concealable weapons. Even the hunters with rifles are in the minority. That said, the right to bear arms is part of our constitution and, historically, for very good reasons. So, in that sense I suppose you could say that guns are an inherent part of our identity.

I think you'll find that most Americans who care about the second amendment are more concerned with the constitutional issue than the weapon itself. And, while our constitution is constantly being interpreted and amended, it is a good document, founded on good moral principles.

In my entire half-century of life, I have come close to having a gun drawn on me twice, and in both cases by people who had professional reasons to carry.  Neither gun was ever actually pointed at me, only held, pointing down, at a slight angle most people recognize as a waring.  In both cases, it was a perfectly reasonable action on the part of the people holding the gun - though they recognized quickly it was unnecessary and returned their weapons to their holsters.

In once case, on a dark and almost deserted road, I was stopped by a police officer because one of my taillights was out.  My driver side window was stuck and would not roll down, and so I opened the door a little and placed my foot and the ground to hold it there so as to be able to speak with the officer.  How was he to know who I was, or what my intentions were?  He was still approaching and a few feet behind the car.

In the second case - I did something that seemed reasonable at the time, but in retrospect seems really dumb. I'd gone t one of these free-standing ATM kiosks in a shopping center parking lot (broad daylight - a few people around) only to find that it wasn't working.  I heard a noise, and thought perhaps someone was working on the machine, OR refilling it.  Since it was quite a way to the next kiosks (this was before debit cards were common -- all I had was an ATM card) I decided to ask if i should just wait, or move on.  I walked around to the back - and tapped on the door (which was slightly ajar) The machine was being refilled, and the man who was caring the money came to the door with his gun at that same "warning" angle.

In both cases, everyone was grinning before it was over.  But the fact is that both of these men had every right to be cautious - and behaved absolutely responsibly and courteously. If everyone who carried a gun were so sane - I'd never worry about them at all!

[EvB]

i dont see how everyone having guns stops some kids feeling so left out that they go nuts in class. i would rather know why they do it, and address that, than just shoot them and go "another nutter is dead, good".

It won't, but as Centurion pointed out it may help save some of the victims.   

On of the results of tragedies like Columbine is that - at LONG LAST - teachers and others in charge of the young have stopped chanting idiotic phrases like "sticks and stone may break your bones but words will never hurt you" because it is a LIE.  There are also now programs in schools that address bullying and randomly ostracizing others rather than just accepting it as a cultural reality and something people have to learn to deal with (though it is ALSO that - that doesn't mean should  be shrugged off and therefore given tacit approval)

Has it helped?  Not enough, not yet.  I do have hopes it will, eventually.

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

Hey Ev, from what I hear around these parts, the best place to get a decent side-arm is Connecticut.  I forget all the reasons why, but one was definitely the price.  Seems like a lot of folks in NH have heat. I'm gonna start my collection of with a nice shotty of some sorts.  And then I wouldn't mind getting a really cool "wild west" revolver to match my Wyatt Earp mustache.  Oh, and .357 Python is also a goal.

[danDNA]

Fry's girl, have you changed your hair in yr avatar, there's something different about you?

Ev, do you really think it is name calling that makes kids go crazy with guns? who wasnt called a name at school?  it must be something other than that, my dad still calls himself big ears, i got a relative called ginger, i knew someone a school called gaye stag, who got no end of grief, what could she do about it, it was her real name. its character building to have a nick name, plenty of people called lanky, fatty, skinny, chalky etc in the past done ok. i think we need to think a bit harder as to why certain kids feel alienated. perhaps prescription drugs play some part in it...

FOR THE RECORD

i love america, bin there several times, driven around, stopped off, smoked with them, drank with them, i love the place and the people, just dont love the guns part. All my euro-trash pals agree, but then we all live in age old countries with bags of history and experience points. that dont mean we are right, just that we are a bit like old people and you are our kiddies, you got your ways and we got ours. sometimes our values meet, other times they clash. us being elderly feel that we can say, them american kids are out doing this and that again (same shit we done wrong in past), but its just cus we dont want you to make mistakes, and you are all like, 'dont tell us so and so old geezer, we protect you now', and you make you own mistakes (cus thats how we all learn).

so dont feel like im dissing you, it aint that, and nor are the french or the italians or whoever. we all have taken large chunks of American culture and re-assimilated it into our own, thats how we roll being old countries.

so im sorry if i offended anyone, but you gotta admit, you can be a little thawny over the gun issue eh?

Now, are we all FRIENDS?

i also still dont get this, is it saying if the people had guns they would have removed these leaders?



BTW, george noory sucks.

[Frys Girl]

Fry's girl, have you changed your hair in yr avatar, there's something different about you?

Ev, do you really think it is name calling that makes kids go crazy with guns? who wasnt called a name at school?  it must be something other than that, my dad still calls himself big ears, i got a relative called ginger, i knew someone a school called gaye stag, who got no end of grief, what could she do about it, it was her real name. its character building to have a nick name, plenty of people called lanky, fatty, skinny, chalky etc in the past done ok. i think we need to think a bit harder as to why certain kids feel alienated. perhaps prescription drugs play some part in it...

FOR THE RECORD

i love america, bin there several times, driven around, stopped off, smoked with them, drank with them, i love the place and the people, just dont love the guns part. All my euro-trash pals agree, but then we all live in age old countries with bags of history and experience points. that dont mean we are right, just that we are a bit like old people and you are our kiddies, you got your ways and we got ours. sometimes our values meet, other times they clash. us being elderly feel that we can say, them american kids are out doing this and that again (same shit we done wrong in past), but its just cus we dont want you to make mistakes, and you are all like, 'dont tell us so and so old geezer, we protect you now', and you make you own mistakes (cus thats how we all learn).

so dont feel like im dissing you, it aint that, and nor are the french or the italians or whoever. we all have taken large chunks of American culture and re-assimilated it into our own, thats how we roll being old countries.

so im sorry if i offended anyone, but you gotta admit, you can be a little thawny over the gun issue eh?

Now, are we all FRIENDS?

i also still dont get this, is it saying if the people had guns they would have removed these leaders?



BTW, george noory sucks.

Dan I am involved in a life long love affair with England. I know what you're talking about  including the image of Americans as "gun nuts" AND, more bothersome to me, Bush wing nuts with God guns and jesus babies and pastors. All those things exist but it doesn't represent us all.

I am a liberal. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have guns. But that's ridiculous and won't happen here. I happen to have had a grandfather with a gun franchise in Iran and I know that outlawing guns isn't the solution - America is a land based on guns and it's a right here. I'd rather move on and figure out real solutions like keeping social rejects like CHO from going into shops and buying a gun and popping off some students.

Like I said, I think what you're describing is good for England - your culture is very different there and I have enjoyed that - But American society is different. There's no point in even comparing. It's not about gun nuts, it's just a culture that permits gun ownership and it's a big business here.

[Centurion73]

This is a message From Brits who lost their guns to those of us in America.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4gI2q6RIhw

[EvB]

Ev, do you really think it is name calling that makes kids go crazy with guns?

No, not at all - and I didn't mean to imply it was.  I'm referring to something much more intense than that.  The bulling, the ostracizing, the kid who can never win no matter what.  The "Looser" the "Freak" -- or in younger years - the kid who has "cooties."  And, the mass mentality is that NO ONE 9or very few) will allow that person to rise outside the box they are in.

It isn't one sided.  Kids who get pinned in this way usually have some kind of social ineptness. A lack of skill to fit in, or to rise above the meanness. I'm told that studies have been done with poultry - if you take one baby chick, and make it look odd (most commonly by dying it's feathers) the flock will make sure it remains at the bottom of the "pecking order" - often pecking it to death. It's an animal trait that I'm sure has some kind of positive survival purpose.  But intelligent animals (including dogs) can be taught to rise above it.  As human animals - we most certainly should.

If it were a matter of group survival - would I turn on the person who was not in step and therefore endangering us all?  I likely would.  But most of us are rarely - if ever -  in that situation.

[EvB]

Hey Ev, from what I hear around these parts, the best place to get a decent side-arm is Connecticut.  I forget all the reasons why, but one was definitely the price.  Seems like a lot of folks in NH have heat

Well, yes - I painted with much to broad a brush.  Most of NH and much of northern Maine are quite different than what i think of as stereotypically New England when it comes to weapons. Connecticut is another story all together - again, depending on what part.  Which only goes to support my statement that the US is an amazing mish-mash of cultures, and shades of cultures.

My son's Dad - a resident of NH - has a huge cross-bow.  And, even in the "Live Free or Die" state (that still strikes me as such an odd motto for a New England state - but there you have it!) they are only allowed for those who have a physical reason to need them as an adaptation for hunting.  (Kevin has one gimp arm from a childhood injury.)  DAMN but those things are powerful-scary!

[EvB]

but then we all live in age old countries with bags of history and experience points. that don't mean we are right, just that we are a bit like old people and you are our kiddies, you got your ways and we got ours.

hehe - yeah - you know, for some reason I don't find that offensive coming form the UK. Likely because most of you DO recognize that it's a "we got our ways you got yours" thing. But I cannot tell you how AGGRAVATED I get with Europeans, and others, who com here with the attitude that is more like "You are all barbarians, beneath my contempt, but if you will listen to me rattle on and on and on  I will teach you about REAL culture"

Actually, though, I do have a favorite story that is more or less realted.  I know PERFECTLY WELL how to make a propper pot of tea both by UK and Mid East standards - and will do so when the occasion calls for it. (Well, I don't OWN a samovar - but do know how to use one) However, in that way that yo may think of as typically American - I'm more interested in my work, my family, my friends and my hobbies.  So - I roll out of be in the morning, pour some filtered water into the largest mug I own (or sometimes into a smallish teapot) throw in as many teabags as seem called for - and stick it in the microwave while I take the dog out.

An online friend, who I also met though a C2C connection, (A Welshman who lives near London now) was horrified.  He nagged me relentlessly about how horribly WRONG my behaviour was. 

Guess who now owns a microwave, some huge mugs, and buys his tea in bags?   

[danDNA]

that video shows the countryside alliance (as well as some australians!!! who are not british), who represent the aristocracy, a group of people i have absolutely no interest in following. they are land owners and lords and judges, and the labour party (our government) is attempting to restrict their 'way of life' because they are rich cunts who give a fuck about no one. Up the workers (and some of the middle classes), because i aint got FUCK ALL. European politics is complicated, but basically if you aint inherited any money or land or property or titles you are worthless in the eyes of these people. well thats me and my pals, whether they are english, french, italian or german. next you'll be putting up videos by the british nationalist party telling me theyre fighting for people's rights to defend themselves. Morte a fascismo.

No, not at all - and I didn't mean to imply it was.  I'm referring to something much more intense than that.  The bulling, the ostracizing, the kid who can never win no matter what.

, or the kid who says having guns is wierd.

i seen 'poo shoe' from school the other day and he has grown up fine, same with 'V', who looked like an alien at school, he's ok.
suggesting that humans have ways of acting similar to chickens, thats just ridiculous, they're barely avian let alone mammals. plenty of losers and freaks went on to become our greatest poets, musicians, actors and writers. studies into bullying recently concluded that name calling is healthy for children, it equips them with better social interaction skills, as experiences do not always have to be positive in order to be beneficial.

be fair to the europeans, they do have culture.

NOW WILL SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THE GUN CONTROL POSTER TO ME!!!

[EvB]

suggesting that humans have ways of acting similar to chickens, thats just ridiculous

Not ridiculous at all. Why do you think humans refer to social standing as "the pecking order"  ?  Sure - lots of kids who are picked on grow up fine - lots don't  - and I'm talking about a hell of a lot more than name-calling. I think a lot of it depends on what strengths or weaknesses they had in the first place.

UBER PERSONAL WARNING: - I have intimate reason to know what I'm talking about (and not just from the anecdotal evidence I'm about to relay but from having studied this DUE TO the story I'm about to tell.)

I was one of those kids.  My life was merry hell.  Think Stephen King's CARRIE with more players (large family) and no religious motivation. It also - obviously - was not so 2-dimensional.  There were good times.  50 years later - I still struggle with the scars and it took me a good decade or more once out of school (I dropped out and took my GED since I just could not stand it any more) to learn not to carry the posture, speak with the tones, and react with the flinches that told people i was someone they could kick. (Literally and figuratively)

Was I totally innocent?  Of course not - but it's next to impossible to learn social skills when the social situation you are in is set up for you to fail.  Stepping outside one's social role - even if it's an ugly one - makes people uncomfortable.  And, unless they are exceptionally self aware, they will conscientiously or unconsciously work to rebuild stasis - which usually means putting you back in your place - or - more rarely - picking someone else to fill it.  Either way it sucks.

I still have to care for myself in ways that are more formally "adaptive" than the general population (though yes, indeed, we all have our crosses to bear and we all must adapt)

My neurological issues have to do with panic disorder. And gosh oh goolly but it's GREAT fun to go out of your way to bully and frighten someone who - on a neurological level - cannot help what is termed an "exaggerated startle reflex."  Let's jump the sily bitch and watch her jump a mile and burst into tears!  YAHOO! That's just one example - but you can imagine that the more that sort of thing happend to me (and I'm talking multiple times a day) the HARDER it became to remain cool.  There are cases wehre practice doe not make perfect.  It makes for iinsanity. And please - don't tell me that this kind of this is the exception and not the rule for children who are made social pariahs.  If it is a minority of the cases - it's a big minority who have some issue that they cannot - or have not learned to - controll. 

I have two nephews (great nephews actually, I was a late-life "whoops" and grew up with my older nieces and nephews) who have been labeled with Asperger's Syndrome.  (One primary symptom of which is the inability to read and appropriately respond to social cues) One is a handsome young man, with a milder case, and is now doing much better - in college - and managing to find his way in life.  The other, younger and with a More sever case, is not attractive by adolesant standards (and you know that to kids that means a LOT) at six foot three and a bit over 250 pounds without the muscle mass to carry it well (because he isolates himself with his computers - and after two suicide attempts and multiple self-harm events as a direct reaction to the mistreatment he suffered in school - his parents deiced to home school him in desperation - so he's not active enough) And -- By the way  he's been pretty much that size since he was 12 - so you can only imagine how much he stuck out.

So - when I look at events like Columbine - I absolutely agree that once that horror starts rolling, taking out the shooters is a perfectly rational, and even good in the absence of any immediate alternative, reaction.  I would do it myself it it fell to me and I could. Still - my heart goes out to the boys who started the shooting as much as to the kids who got shot. But to do so without then looking at what could have prevented the whole mess in the first place would be utterly immoral.

Dan, I know I sound intense - please know it's not directed at you - but at the issue. The whole thing hits a very raw nerve for me.

[Centurion73]

Sorry you did not like the video but it does highlight important issues about "liberty" be you a person of means or not. Well here is another one that claims that the gun crimes have gone up 40% since the ban? I am not purporting it as fact I am using it to question as I do not reside there, what do you think about the ideas in this one? It has probably a former MP and some of your police and what they say, they claim to be British but I do not know.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec


The poster and I do not mean to be confrontational is self explanatory really. I mean take away means to resist a dictatorship or repressive government and what do you get? The people have no means to stand up to an armed forces of the dictators and then all opposition is removed by "cleansing", "relocation camps", etc. The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911. It then proceeded to exterminate one and a half million Armenians from 1914 to 1917. The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. Subsequently, from 1928 to 1953, sixty million dissidents were imprisoned and then exterminated, hell we even did it here in the U.S.  to the Natives.

[EvB]

Great vid! 

That Tony Martin story makes me furrious - and almost ill. 

As for Fox hunting - if I understand correctly how that works - it's hardly sportsmanlike and, by itself, I wouldn't mind seeing it banned.  However, in the context of everything else that is going on in the UK in relation to firearms - I can understand why it woud come up.

[danDNA]

again, this video is just loads of toffs going on about their rights, and how england is changing. BORE OFF, they fucking rule the country they are judges,  police chiefs, land owners, lords, ladies, peers, gentry etc and now they want to talk about rights? what about all the other times like stephen lawrence getting killed, like the march against our government going to an illegal war with their criminal cohorts? or the miners losing their jobs? where were they then? ill tell you where - in their fucking mansions hunting defenseless animals with their packs of dogs, or eating eagles feet - yes eagles feet! soaked in plum brandy, cus they dont care about this country really, just their antiquated way of life.
recently two people were convicted of recomissioning guns and selling them to inner city kids that were then used in shootings - both of them were white, upper class cunts who lived in big houses and didnt have to see the ramifications of their work.

from the home office website

Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in England and Wales is very low ? less than 0.5% of all crime recorded by the police.
Facts & figures

    * The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 2% in 2007-08 compared to the previous year
    * Firearms were involved in 455 serious or fatal injuries, compared to 468 the previous year - a drop of 3%
    * Offences involving handguns effectively held steady, those involving shotguns were down 3%
    * The number of reported crimes involving imitation guns effectively held steady

the policeman in that video dont tell you that when they banned guns they issued the police with them.in 1994 we had one guns squad in the whole of London, now most stations have firearms. could this not be a reason also for the rise in gun crime, if there is actually a rise at all?

sorry its not a video, text is the best i can do - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/tony-martin-the-harmless-eccentric-whose-obsession-made-him-a-killer-721200.html

[Centurion73]

Do not be sorry about not sending a video a post is just as well and often times better. It appears as though you have a problem with those people and think they do not deserve the rights they want, it is your country and not for me to decide. That is my point, judge your own country and its policies I do not judge you or them for that but when you spout thing about how America is viewed by Europeans then I commented. I do not hunt with dogs and most of Americans do not there are some but I think that is not sport and I do not hunt or fish for sport, I do hunt though. I do not eat Eagles feet but I cannot judge that as I have no basis or background in that but thank you I will research that.

As for your facts  on crime that is all relative to the numbers that are not supplied,

The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 2% in 2007-08 compared to the previous year

2% of what number? 

Firearms were involved in 455 serious or fatal injuries, compared to 468 the previous year - a drop of 3%

. At least here they did give us info This should tell you your ban is not working

Offences involving handguns effectively held steady,

if the ban was effective you should see a significant drop should you not?

he policeman in that video dont tell you that when they banned guns they issued the police with them.

I think the officer did state something to that effect & body armor or armour as well. If crime is down & gun crime is down why outfit police with body armor?

in 1994 we had one guns squad in the whole of London, now most stations have firearms. could this not be a reason also for the rise in gun crime,

Are you equating that the police as being the cause of your gun crime by this statement?

[Pirate King Atomsk]

OMG!  Despite what I said about fearing to carry - I do have "target shoot" fantasies. Where could I get one of these puppies?  My birthday is coming up . . .

Ah! Well this is my favorite one I have that's rather inexpensive. Read the comments, and you'll see why it's so good for the price.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerline-177-Semi-Auto-Pistol/dp/B000BWE60C