BellGab.com Archive

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 20, 2014, 08:08:51 PM
I must admit to being surprised at how lightly you take this, I'm sure you are aware that would mean immediate termination in any professional environment.  I take this as an indication of his overall lack of integrity, or perhaps his mental stability.

Obviously, any individual working on captured extraterrestrial craft would be required to sign an NDA, and equally obviously, once any such individual talked about such craft, they would be in violation of their agreement, and thus, would no longer be "professional."

I must admit to being surprised at how lightly you take the fact that your own standards of truth-telling make it literally impossible for a certain individual to logically exist, i.e. "a professional contractor willing to be unprofessional in exactly one way, and in no other," but it seems to me you are pretty caught up in the ancillary aspects to this story.

Frankly, I see someone lying about his past to be clever, not fraudulent. People fucking lie about fucking everything! That hardly makes all the information they can provide irrelevant and discountable. The unwinding of Lazar's personal bullshit story simply makes the revelation of the actual story, all the more interesting.

I don't know whether to say, "Q.E.D." or "Catch-22, sucka!!!"

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If I had to pick a word to describe my feelings for him, I'd use "disgust" or "pity".  The former if he knowingly scammed as I believe, the latter if he really believes his own story.

I don't accept your black-or-white categorization of the man and his story. For example, there is absolutely no evidence that he isn't an extraordinarily clumsy inter-dimensional traveller. That would explain why no one remembers him just as well as a blanket, "well, he lied about some stuff, so he's either lying, or lying to himself."

I apologize for my unfair characterizations of your's, or anyone's thought processes. I am coming to this party late, and it is a very irrelevant party.

Quote from: Jackstar on May 20, 2014, 08:33:14 PM
Obviously, any individual working on captured extraterrestrial craft would be required to sign an NDA, and equally obviously, once any such individual talked about such craft, they would be in violation of their agreement, and thus, would no longer be "professional."

I must admit to being surprised at how lightly you take the fact that your own standards of truth-telling make it literally impossible for a certain individual to logically exist, i.e. "a professional contractor willing to be unprofessional in exactly one way, and in no other," but it seems to me you are pretty caught up in the ancillary aspects to this story.

Frankly, I see someone lying about his past to be clever, not fraudulent. People fucking lie about fucking everything! That hardly makes all the information they can provide irrelevant and discountable. The unwinding of Lazar's personal bullshit story simply makes the revelation of the actual story, all the more interesting.

I don't know whether to say, "Q.E.D." or "Catch-22, sucka!!!"
I don't accept your black-or-white categorization of the man and his story. For example, there is absolutely no evidence that he isn't an extraordinarily clumsy inter-dimensional traveller. That would explain why no one remembers him just as well as a blanket, "well, he lied about some stuff, so he's either lying, or lying to himself."

I apologize for my unfair characterizations of your's, or anyone's thought processes. I am coming to this party late, and it is a very irrelevant party.

Let me try this again.  Employers fire those who lie about their educational accomplishments, thus showing how they view the intergrity of someone who does so. I agree with this view, that's all I was saying.

You understand I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on Lazar.  I think he was either a con man or delusional, others think he's 100% truthful.  That's fine.  The whole idea of a forum is to discuss the range of opinions people have on topical threads.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 21, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
[snip]

Oh, well then: we agree. That's kind of boring.

"CIA disinformation psy-op agent" falls under the heading of "con man," right? Okay then.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 21, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
Some Employers fire those who lie about their educational accomplishments

Fixed it for you Uncle.

Quote from: area51drone on May 22, 2014, 03:05:25 AM
Fixed it for you Uncle.

Thank you.

Say, you specifically challenged me to address the issue of witnesses and video with respect to Lazar's claims.  No comments to my response?

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 20, 2014, 08:08:51 PM
Obviously we have a difference of opinion on the credibility and integrity of Bob Lazar, however we do agree apparently at least he lied about his education.  I must admit to being surprised at how lightly you take this, I'm sure you are aware that would mean immediate termination in any professional environment. 

As from our last exchange, obviously I disagree with you.  There are plenty of employers who would not terminate you based one a lie about your schooling.  It just depends on the severity of the lie against what you're doing and how public perception of the company might be affected.   I take it "lightly" because there are lots and lots of people who do it all the time, and as far as we know, he only lied to us, not the government.   Does it help his story?  No.  But I don't think it completely discredits it like you do, especially in light of the video and eyewitness evidence. 

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I take this as an indication of his overall lack of integrity, or perhaps his mental stability.

I'm not sure what to think about it to be honest.  Integrity maybe.  But sometimes people just lie because they're embarrassed about the truth, or maybe he felt that no one would believe him if he didn't lie about his schooling.   There are other reasons besides trying to trick people that people lie, again, assuming it was a lie.  I wish he would come out with the truth and admit it but you also don't hear him repeating the lie over and over anymore either.

There are things in my past that I'd rather not share and might lie about if I were faced with public scrutiny, hoping that they wouldn't come out.   If they did, IMO, they shouldn't damn me or my integriy to hell, but I could see that others might not trust me because of what I did so I would try to avoid that conversation if at all possible.   Really, the things I'm referring to were not terrible at all, they would just paint me in a bad light.

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I was unaware, but I'm not surprised, Friedman has a hard-on for Lazar.  I haven't paid attention to him since attending one of his lectures over 20 years ago.  Friedman is all about Friedman, he turned me off with his attitude.  I have come to the conclusion he is now the cheesy lounge act of ufology, he spends what little air time he gets personally attacking others who disagree with him.  Sadly, he's almost pathetic.

This we can both wholeheartedly agree on.

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As for witnesses and video of craft over/around Area 51, I have no doubt both exist.  Why would that surprise anyone?  This is another aspect of Lazar's story that is true inspite of him.  As I said before, experimental and classified aircraft have been flying there for decades. People have been reporting aircraft from Area 51 as UFOs at least since the 50s.  From personal experience, I can tell you there was some seriously weird shit out there in my day.  None of it was from another world, but I can readily believe some people might have thought they were.  Someone who actually worked there would know better, however.

Well I don't know what to say about this either, if you were at Area 51 and privy to everything going on at the base, then maybe you know more than the general public.   But I'm sure there are/were compartmentalized things that you would not see, alien or otherwise.   I take your comments that you believe the video is real, just not alien.   So assuming the video is real, and assuming that Bob only took the witnesses out on the dates and times that they were flying around (ie he didn't bring them out on dates they weren't), then you MUST believe that Bob *at least* worked at Area 51, and the only thing in question in your mind is did he work on alien craft?

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Just to claify, I don't hate or loath Lazer. I posted here only because he was a topic of discussion, my opinion is as valid as anyone who believes him.  If I had to pick a word to describe my feelings for him, I'd use "disgust" or "pity".  The former if he knowingly scammed as I believe, the latter if he really believes his own story.

I don't think anyone aside from Friedman "hates" Bob personally, and you weren't being accused of such.   You hate his story.   I don't understand why you are "digusted" by it.  I don't see what damage it has done to ufology.   Those who want to believe in UFOs will continue despite Bob or anyone else's truthfulness.  Those who think it's all bunk just use it as an example why they're right.   I don't think it has really done anything other than open the public's eyes to area 51.

Quote from: area51drone on May 22, 2014, 09:03:33 AM
As from our last exchange, obviously I disagree with you.  There are plenty of employers who would not terminate you based one a lie about your schooling.  It just depends on the severity of the lie against what you're doing and how public perception of the company might be affected.   I take it "lightly" because there are lots and lots of people who do it all the time, and as far as we know, he only lied to us, not the government.   Does it help his story?  No.  But I don't think it completely discredits it like you do, especially in light of the video and eyewitness evidence. 
I'm not sure what to think about it to be honest.  Integrity maybe.  But sometimes people just lie because they're embarrassed about the truth, or maybe he felt that no one would believe him if he didn't lie about his schooling.   There are other reasons besides trying to trick people that people lie, again, assuming it was a lie.  I wish he would come out with the truth and admit it but you also don't hear him repeating the lie over and over anymore either.

There are things in my past that I'd rather not share and might lie about if I were faced with public scrutiny, hoping that they wouldn't come out.   If they did, IMO, they shouldn't damn me or my integriy to hell, but I could see that others might not trust me because of what I did so I would try to avoid that conversation if at all possible.   Really, the things I'm referring to were not terrible at all, they would just paint me in a bad light.

This we can both wholeheartedly agree on.

Well I don't know what to say about this either, if you were at Area 51 and privy to everything going on at the base, then maybe you know more than the general public.   But I'm sure there are/were compartmentalized things that you would not see, alien or otherwise.   I take your comments that you believe the video is real, just not alien.   So assuming the video is real, and assuming that Bob only took the witnesses out on the dates and times that they were flying around (ie he didn't bring them out on dates they weren't), then you MUST believe that Bob *at least* worked at Area 51, and the only thing in question in your mind is did he work on alien craft?

I don't think anyone aside from Friedman "hates" Bob personally, and you weren't being accused of such.   You hate his story.   I don't understand why you are "digusted" by it.  I don't see what damage it has done to ufology.   Those who want to believe in UFOs will continue despite Bob or anyone else's truthfulness.  Those who think it's all bunk just use it as an example why they're right.   I don't think it has really done anything other than open the public's eyes to area 51.

Any employer who hires you to do a job based on the education you claim to have will fire you if it is discovered you lied and do not have the academic credentials on which your employment offer was tendered.  This is the professional environment I worked in, and how I look at this situation.  We agree, however, that if you are a ditch digger or fry cook who fraudulantly claims to have a masters degree in astrophysics, you might not get the boot if you're found out.

I was referring to witnesses to and video of stange aerial craft around Area 51 in general, I know both exist.  As for Lazar's situation, the only person I've ever heard claim Lazar told him where/when he'd be able to see a UFO was John Lear.  (Let's overlook the fact Lear is a lunatic for the time being.)  I can remember hearing Lear claim only once this happened while on with Knapp, don't know Lazar correctly predicted where/when to see a UFO on multiple ocassions and/or with multiple witnesses. You "assume" this happened mulitple times in your post.  In any event, even if Lazar correctly predicted where/when more than once, he could have done so without ever stepping onto the base, let alone working there.  How?  Someone who did work there, or at least had access to scheduling, could have told him.

As for video, I have seen just one such example resulting from Lazar's where/when prediction.  I believe this was taken by Lear during the one event he described to Knapp.
I have seen a poor copy of what was identified as that event video, but couldn't make anything out of it other than a bouncing light due to poor quality of the recording.  I will say what I saw on the video was strange, and could lead some to believe it was not of this earth.  If there are other Lazar predicted/Lear produced videos, I'd like to see them.  More importantly I'd like Bruce Maccabee to look such videos and provide his analysis of what's being looked at. 

I'm not going to discuss my connection to Area 51 specifically, but I say I was never there.  I did support multiple aerial vehicle flight test programs that went on there, and on some occasions I analyzed real-time data collected during test flights of classified a/c.  I won't name a/c types, or even the number of types, but I can say my level of support was a direct result to the level of clearance I held for each air vehicle.  At least one I was cleared to the lowest level available, this is know as being "defensively briefed".  Were there other programs for which I had no access?  Such, that's possible.  My point was, however, that anyone working the programs I worked would have known they were terrestrial.

I've made my personal feeling about Lazar pretty clear, so I see no need to readdress them.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 22, 2014, 02:19:11 PM
Any employer who hires you to do a job based on the education you claim to have will fire you if it is discovered you lied and do not have the academic credentials on which your employment offer was tendered.  This is the professional environment I worked in, and how I look at this situation.  We agree, however, that if you are a ditch digger or fry cook who fraudulantly claims to have a masters degree in astrophysics, you might not get the boot if you're found out.

It depends on your work experience.   Maybe in your environment it was different, but professional places I have worked would take into account your knowledge and experience in the field before just outright letting you go.   Say for example, someone worked at a company for 20 years, did a great job and were knowledgeable in their field - and then it was found out they lied about attending some particular college.   I don't think all companies would fire that person.  Some would, most probably would not.  Maybe discipline or put something "on their record" so that other employees would be afraid to lie, but firing is pretty harsh.

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I was referring to witnesses to and video of stange aerial craft around Area 51 in general, I know both exist.  As for Lazar's situation, the only person I've ever heard claim Lazar told him where/when he'd be able to see a UFO was John Lear.  (Let's overlook the fact Lear is a lunatic for the time being.)  I can remember hearing Lear claim only once this happened while on with Knapp, don't know Lazar correctly predicted where/when to see a UFO on multiple ocassions and/or with multiple witnesses. You "assume" this happened mulitple times in your post.  In any event, even if Lazar correctly predicted where/when more than once, he could have done so without ever stepping onto the base, let alone working there.  How?  Someone who did work there, or at least had access to scheduling, could have told him.

I guess.  I'm just relating their story.  Assuming the eye witness accounts are true and Bob is lying, I think it's less probable that someone "leaked a schedule" and would be more likely that Bob visited himself and learned the schedule, but who knows.   It doesn't really matter.    That other guy sitting across from Lear in the recent interview was the other witness.  There was also Bob's ex wife and maybe another person.  I am not "assuming" this happened multiple times, this is what the witnesses claim.

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As for video, I have seen just one such example resulting from Lazar's where/when prediction.  I believe this was taken by Lear during the one event he described to Knapp.
I have seen a poor copy of what was identified as that event video, but couldn't make anything out of it other than a bouncing light due to poor quality of the recording.  I will say what I saw on the video was strange, and could lead some to believe it was not of this earth.  If there are other Lazar predicted/Lear produced videos, I'd like to see them.  More importantly I'd like Bruce Maccabee to look such videos and provide his analysis of what's being looked at. 

I don't know how many videos there are, but even one is pretty good.  I too would always like to see footage analyzed by professionals.  I'm not sure though, how much analysis can be done on a white dot in the sky.  I think more telling is listening to the voices describe what's going on and trying to gauge truthfulness in their voices.

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I'm not going to discuss my connection to Area 51 specifically, but I say I was never there.  I did support multiple aerial vehicle flight test programs that went on there, and on some occasions I analyzed real-time data collected during test flights of classified a/c.  I won't name a/c types, or even the number of types, but I can say my level of support was a direct result to the level of clearance I held for each air vehicle.  At least one I was cleared to the lowest level available, this is know as being "defensively briefed".  Were there other programs for which I had no access?  Such, that's possible.  My point was, however, that anyone working the programs I worked would have known they were terrestrial.

Which means nothing in relation to Bob's story, IMO.

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I've made my personal feeling about Lazar pretty clear, so I see no need to readdress them.

I was just trying to explain that we knew you didn't hate the guy personally.

Quote from: area51drone on May 22, 2014, 05:27:45 PM
It depends on your work experience.   Maybe in your environment it was different, but professional places I have worked would take into account your knowledge and experience in the field before just outright letting you go.   Say for example, someone worked at a company for 20 years, did a great job and were knowledgeable in their field - and then it was found out they lied about attending some particular college.   I don't think all companies would fire that person.  Some would, most probably would not.  Maybe discipline or put something "on their record" so that other employees would be afraid to lie, but firing is pretty harsh.

In my world they'd have been given the boot immediately since they would have lost their security clearance for lying on their clearance paperwork.  Again, that's how I view the seriousness of academic fraud.  Curious, however, does the name "George O'Leary"ring a bell with you?

I guess.  I'm just relating their story.  Assuming the eye witness accounts are true and Bob is lying, I think it's less probable that someone "leaked a schedule" and would be more likely that Bob visited himself and learned the schedule, but who knows.   It doesn't really matter.    That other guy sitting across from Lear in the recent interview was the other witness.  There was also Bob's ex wife and maybe another person.  I am not "assuming" this happened multiple times, this is what the witnesses claim.

I was just going on you previous post where you said...  "assuming that Bob only took the witnesses out on the dates and times that they were flying around (ie he didn't bring them out on dates they weren't)...".  In any event, I can't comment on specifics if I don't have them relative to the number of witnesses/times Lazar got the where/where correct.  I must say, however, any event collaboration that relies on John Lear is tenuous at best.  The man is delusional.

I don't know how many videos there are, but even one is pretty good.  I too would always like to see footage analyzed by professionals.  I'm not sure though, how much analysis can be done on a white dot in the sky.  I think more telling is listening to the voices describe what's going on and trying to gauge truthfulness in their voices.

One good one is good, one poor quality, shaky video is questionable.  As you say, a white dot is...welll... a white dot.  I admit I don't remember the audio portion of that video, but since I don't question they truthfully videoed what they saw, I don't need the audio to verify the event.

Which means nothing in relation to Bob's story, IMO.

It means something in so far as I have experience with the air vehicles and necessary read-ins necessary for Area 51 programs and can speak from personal experience.  We agree, however, it means nothing if Lazar never set foot on the facility as I believe.

I was just trying to explain that we knew you didn't hate the guy personally.
Thank you.

[/u]

Great replies there, thank you, gentlemen!

Now, bonus topic: "Where did transistors come from?"

Show your work.

Quote from: Jackstar on May 22, 2014, 08:29:14 PM
Great replies there, thank you, gentlemen!

Now, bonus topic: "Where did transistors come from?"

Show your work.

Bell Labs. 

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 22, 2014, 08:35:43 PM
Bell Labs.

I do not believe that story for a New York minute.

QuoteLegal papers from the Bell Labs patent show that William Shockley and a co-worker at Bell Labs, Gerald Pearson, had built operational versions from Lilienfeld's patents, yet they never referenced this work in any of their later research papers or historical articles.

Just the first of the several peculiar inconsistencies when it comes to the development of this tremendously important technological discovery. Now, what year was it that they finally got it working, after beating on the idea since the early 1900s? Oh, right... 1947.

Fancy that. Did anything else unusual happen around that time? You know, if they could just make a combustion engine that ran on bullshit coincidences, the energy crisis would be over!!

Quote from: Jackstar on May 22, 2014, 08:42:22 PM
I do not believe that story for a New York minute.

Just the first of the several peculiar inconsistencies when it comes to the development of this tremendously important technological discovery. Now, what year was it that they finally got it working, after beating on the idea since the early 1900s? Oh, right... 1947.

Fancy that. Did anything else unusual happen around that time? You know, if they could just make a combustion engine that ran on bullshit coincidences, the energy crisis would be over!!

Let's cut to the chase.  Sounds like you buy Corso's story.  As I read "The Day After Roswell" some years ago, I finished with three pages of notes relative to statements in the book that were either false or questionable.  Sadly Lt Col Corso passed away before I could correspond with him, but several years later I read Col John Alexander's book where he noted he had asked Lt. Col Corso many of the same questions I noted, as well as many more.  Corso never answered Alexander.  Too bad, would have been interesting to see how Corso would have address statements he made that were patently false.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 22, 2014, 08:58:57 PM
Sounds like you buy Corso's story.

Not in the least. I think he was a paid spin doctor and a shill for corporate fascism.

I am glad we agree that there is a story, though. =D

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 22, 2014, 08:58:57 PM
I finished with three pages of notes relative to statements in the book that were either false or questionable.

No joke... are these... sharable? Privately if you wish--I would be fascinated to see them. I still have at least 7 lives left.

Quote from: Jackstar on May 22, 2014, 09:15:25 PM
No joke... are these... sharable? Privately if you wish--I would be fascinated to see them. I still have at least 7 lives left.

Mine are hand written, would take a couple hours or more to transcribe them here.  Might be easier for you to read Appendix A of Col John Alexander's book "UFOs--Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities."  Colonel Alexander covered 90% of my comments, and added others he was able to include based on his background. 

Scan them! I have this awesome book on how to analyze handwriting.

And I thank you indeed for pointing me towards Colonel Alexander's work. I have seen reference to him before but I was not as aware of the context as I am now. Thanks.

Or take a picture with your cell phone, Uncle.  I find it fascinating for someone who disbelieves so much in ufology that you do so much reading about it.   I'm curious Uncle, what UFO stories/evidence DO you believe?

How can someone "disbelieve" in ufology? There are clearly objects that fly, that are as yet, unidentified, and in the meantime, we can logy them.



Seriously, it's a great read.

Quote from: area51drone on May 23, 2014, 04:36:01 AM
Or take a picture with your cell phone, Uncle.  I find it fascinating for someone who disbelieves so much in ufology that you do so much reading about it.   I'm curious Uncle, what UFO stories/evidence DO you believe?

Disbelieves?  Just the opposite, actually.  I've noted a good number of cases here I think are above reproach.  Rendlesham, Socorro, St Louis area in 2000, Phoenix, Exeter, the RB-47 case of 1957, JAL sighting over Alaska, sightings over nuke missile bases (including one witnessed by my cousin), Shag Harbor, and Milton Torres' encounter over the UK are cases that readily come to mind.  There is also my personal sighting. My big problem with ufology is mainly the ufogists and their sloppy research.  I gave examples of this in one of the UFO threads here a few months ago.

If I can find my notes from Corso's book, I'll provide them.  That was fifteen years ago, so I'll have to dig to locate them if I still have them. Based on how you reject the vast majority of my observations here, not sure why you want to take the time to decypher three pages of chicken-scratched notes when you are going to take exception with most of the comments/questions raised.

He just wants to see them because I do. *sniff*

Quote from: Jackstar on May 23, 2014, 06:55:05 AM
He just wants to see them because I do. *sniff*

You're damned right I do.  If Jackstar sees anything.... me too!!

Quote from: area51drone on May 24, 2014, 11:58:18 AM
You're damned right I do.  If Jackstar sees anything.... me too!!

I guess great minds do think alike.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 23, 2014, 06:49:22 AM
Disbelieves?  Just the opposite, actually.  I've noted a good number of cases here I think are above reproach.  Rendlesham, Socorro, St Louis area in 2000, Phoenix, Exeter, the RB-47 case of 1957, JAL sighting over Alaska, sightings over nuke missile bases (including one witnessed by my cousin), Shag Harbor, and Milton Torres' encounter over the UK are cases that readily come to mind.  There is also my personal sighting. My big problem with ufology is mainly the ufogists and their sloppy research.  I gave examples of this in one of the UFO threads here a few months ago.

I'm not so sure about Rendelsham anymore.  At least one of the witnesses was shown to be full of shit.  I'm talking about Penniston.  As for the other Rendelsham witnesses I find them believable.  But after listening to the Skeptoid podcast about the Rendelsham incident I don't think it's the slam dunk that I thought it was before.  It is interesting how UFO incidents keep occurring around military bases with nuclear weapons.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 23, 2014, 06:49:22 AM
Disbelieves?  Just the opposite, actually.  I've noted a good number of cases here I think are above reproach.  Rendlesham, Socorro, St Louis area in 2000, Phoenix, Exeter, the RB-47 case of 1957, JAL sighting over Alaska, sightings over nuke missile bases (including one witnessed by my cousin), Shag Harbor, and Milton Torres' encounter over the UK are cases that readily come to mind.  There is also my personal sighting. My big problem with ufology is mainly the ufogists and their sloppy research.  I gave examples of this in one of the UFO threads here a few months ago.

If I can find my notes from Corso's book, I'll provide them.  That was fifteen years ago, so I'll have to dig to locate them if I still have them. Based on how you reject the vast majority of my observations here, not sure why you want to take the time to decypher three pages of chicken-scratched notes when you are going to take exception with most of the comments/questions raised.

If the "schooling lie" wasn't in the picture, would you have believed Lazar's story?

Quote from: b_dubb on May 24, 2014, 01:25:05 PM
I'm not so sure about Rendelsham anymore.  At least one of the witnesses was shown to be full of shit.  I'm talking about Penniston.  As for the other Rendelsham witnesses I find them believable.  But after listening to the Skeptoid podcast about the Rendelsham incident I don't think it's the slam dunk that I thought it was before.  It is interesting how UFO incidents keep occurring around military bases with nuclear weapons.

Agree with you about Penniston.  No question he was there the first night and saw the object on the ground.  That's all he claimed for over twenty years, then suddenly "story creep" set in and he started talking about receiving a "digital download" as a result of touching the object.  He then went on the lecture/conference curcuit where his story seemed to grow even more.

Over the past few months, Jimmy Church had three shows devoted to Rendlesham.  The first featured Reter Robbins and Larry Warren, the second Nick Pope and John Burroughs, and the last Jim Penniston.  I highly recommend listening to all three, to me they were most telling.  Warren and Burroughs were both very forthcoming, Penniston not so much.  The show with Pope and Burroughs may have been the single best UFO radio show I've ever heard.  Church's shows are available on You Tube.

Quote from: area51drone on May 24, 2014, 02:01:38 PM
If the "schooling lie" wasn't in the picture, would you have believed Lazar's story?

Of course not.  How about his lie about working at Area 51? 

As I've explained before, lots of what Lazar claimed is true in spite of him.  Yes, there is a secure base in the middle of nowhere in Nevada.  Yes, classified and experimental aircraft were flown from there.  Yes, people have been seeing strange things in the air there since the late 50s.  Yes, film/video has been taken of some of those strange things.  That much of Lazar's story is true.

He couldn't prove he graduated from, or even attended the schools he claimed.  He couldn't prove he was employed at or ever even set foot on the base.  The man's sponsor and principal corroborator was a delusional lunatic who claims no aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center and Israel set off a nuke to produce the tsunami causing the Fukushima disaster. 

Lazar had his 15 minutes and moved on.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 24, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Israel set off a nuke to produce the tsunami causing the Fukushima disaster. 

The Rothschilds, not Israel as a whole. I don't even know if the Rothschilds -are- Jewish, or if they are space vampires pretending to be, who cares, either way.

I am sure there are plenty of Israelis who have no awareness at all of the secret war being waged around the globe around them. U.S. citizens hardly have a monopoly on ignorant, uninformed navel-gazing.

Quote from: area51drone on May 24, 2014, 11:58:18 AM
You're damned right I do.  If Jackstar sees anything.... me too!!

How are you at being polite to glowing blue floating balls of plasma in the dark?

Quote from: Uncle Duke on May 24, 2014, 07:26:55 PM
Of course not.  How about his lie about working at Area 51? 

As I've explained before, lots of what Lazar claimed is true in spite of him.  Yes, there is a secure base in the middle of nowhere in Nevada.  Yes, classified and experimental aircraft were flown from there.  Yes, people have been seeing strange things in the air there since the late 50s.  Yes, film/video has been taken of some of those strange things.  That much of Lazar's story is true.

He couldn't prove he graduated from, or even attended the schools he claimed.  He couldn't prove he was employed at or ever even set foot on the base.  The man's sponsor and principal corroborator was a delusional lunatic who claims no aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center and Israel set off a nuke to produce the tsunami causing the Fukushima disaster. 

Lazar had his 15 minutes and moved on.

lazar was and will always work for uncle sam be it telling half truths or selling specialized equipment to government run facilities .