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Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 11:22:34 PM

I knew a kid who was a rabid anti-Zionist. He was also a wigger (Chav, for those in the UK). And a Christian. And a Libertarian.

I got him to admit that he believed in the Calvinist doctrine of Infant Damnation and that he ideologically opposed every aspect of the Civil Rights movement.

I doubt he telled his homeboys that, though.

Actually, come to think of it, Ron Paul is probably to blame for most of the anti-Zionist chic that a lot of 20 somethings are bandying about. I'm willing to bet SciFi author is a Ron Paul fan, judging from his use of the term "Leftist". SciFiAuthor probably stands for the values of limited Government, state's rights and social freedom. He doesn't want the government taking his money to pay for lazy moochers, or telling him who he can or can't marry, or what substances he can or cannot injest.

amirite?

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 10:57:14 PM
Well, to be clear, I don't consider Helen Thomas an Arab nationalist. My point was that her argument was informed by Arab nationalism.

But, to distill what you're saying, you think that a proper Leftist argument would hold that since Jews once lived in Poland, they should all return there, no?

If I understand far-Leftism right, it actually critiques the notion of a nation-state at its core. Am I wrong?

I could be. It wouldn't suprise me to see Leftists using nationalism when it suits their purpose.

But, honestly, when you look at her argument, do you not see how it fits in with Arab nationalism perfectly?

Yes, Helen Thomas didn't invent the "go back to Poland" argument. I've heard it a number of places from people are simply on the left parroting the position. As I said, it can be googled and found in just about any political forum.

I wouldn't say I'm qualified, not being a far leftist nor an anti-Zionist per se, to break down just why they are anti-Israel. I guess it could be anything from objecting to a state based on a religion to simply championing a perceived underdog. You'd have to go to them for a definitive answer.

I don't know that Arab-nationalism exists. I think at one time attempts at it were tossed out by various governments in the middle east, but when you really get down to it every subgroup that can fall under the word "Arab" (or even "Semitic" for that matter) seems to invariably hate each other. I think it's simply something a government cooked up somewhere to try to unify the people of the middle east under some mantra or label. We see something similar today among clerics within Islam trying to unify Muslims within the concept of the Ummah. But I think the real heart of it, the reason why there's been all these attempts at unifying, is because the truth is that every ethnic group in the middle east loathes all the others.

Jordan is a good example. There are something like 30 different ethnic groups within that country. Get rid of the unifying Royal Family and any Jordanian will tell you that, much like Syria is now, they'll all start killing each other in a heartbeat.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 02, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
Yes, Helen Thomas didn't invent the "go back to Poland" argument. I've heard it a number of places from people are simply on the left parroting the position. As I said, it can be googled and found in just about any political forum.

I wouldn't say I'm qualified, not being a far leftist nor an anti-Zionist per se, to break down just why they are anti-Israel. I guess it could be anything from objecting to a state based on a religion to simply championing a perceived underdog. You'd have to go to them for a definitive answer.

I don't know that Arab-nationalism exists. I think at one time attempts at it were tossed out by various governments in the middle east, but when you really get down to it every subgroup that can fall under the word "Arab" (or even "Semitic" for that matter) seems to invariably hate each other. I think it's simply something a government cooked up somewhere to try to unify the people of the middle east under some mantra or label. We see something similar today among clerics within Islam trying to unify Muslims within the concept of the Ummah. But I think the real heart of it, the reason why there's been all these attempts at unifying, is because the truth is that every ethnic group in the middle east loathes all the others.

Jordan is a good example. There are something like 30 different ethnic groups within that country. Get rid of the unifying Royal Family and any Jordanian will tell you that, much like Syria is now, they'll all start killing each other in a heartbeat.

Sure it does.

Pan-Arabism and the Basq movements died out a long time ago.

Now it is a big damn mess of Nationalism.  Don't confuse this with strict secularism erasing nationalism.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 02, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
Yes, Helen Thomas didn't invent the "go back to Poland" argument. I've heard it a number of places from people are simply on the left parroting the position. As I said, it can be googled and found in just about any political forum.

I wouldn't say I'm qualified, not being a far leftist nor an anti-Zionist per se, to break down just why they are anti-Israel. I guess it could be anything from objecting to a state based on a religion to simply championing a perceived underdog. You'd have to go to them for a definitive answer.

I don't know that Arab-nationalism exists. I think at one time attempts at it were tossed out by various governments in the middle east, but when you really get down to it every subgroup that can fall under the word "Arab" (or even "Semitic" for that matter) seems to invariably hate each other. I think it's simply something a government cooked up somewhere to try to unify the people of the middle east under some mantra or label. We see something similar today among clerics within Islam trying to unify Muslims within the concept of the Ummah. But I think the real heart of it, the reason why there's been all these attempts at unifying, is because the truth is that every ethnic group in the middle east loathes all the others.

Arab Nationalism is probably dead now but it was very influential in the years after the Ottoman Empire. The Ba'athists regimes of Syria and Iraq are too prominent examples. But anyway, we're not going to see eye to eye on whether Helen Thomas was using a characteristically leftist argument or a nationalist one so, moving on. . .

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 02, 2013, 11:33:21 PM
Jordan is a good example. There are something like 30 different ethnic groups within that country. Get rid of the unifying Royal Family and any Jordanian will tell you that, much like Syria is now, they'll all start killing each other in a heartbeat.

A similar thing would happen in the UK and her territories, too. The Welsh would begin to annihilate the Scotch, who would then annihilate the Saxons, who would then make war on the Celts, who would then take up arms against the Norwegians.

We are all equal, right?

CNN Helen Thomas 'Jews don't have the right to take other people's land'

Helen Thomas vs. Joy Behar.

What a disgusting bitch. Listen to this shit, SciFi and tell me you aren't glad she's hell in right now getting torn apart by Wendigos.

[attachimg=1]

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 11:29:14 PM
Actually, come to think of it, Ron Paul is probably to blame for most of the anti-Zionist chic that a lot of 20 somethings are bandying about. I'm willing to bet SciFi author is a Ron Paul fan, judging from his use of the term "Leftist". SciFiAuthor probably stands for the values of limited Government, state's rights and social freedom. He doesn't want the government taking his money to pay for lazy moochers, or telling him who he can or can't marry, or what substances he can or cannot injest.

amirite?

I don't really fit in standard politics as it stands right now. In foreign policy, more Ronald Reagan, less Ron Paul.

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 11:56:01 PM

CNN Helen Thomas 'Jews don't have the right to take other people's land'

Helen Thomas vs. Joy Behar.

What a disgusting bitch. Listen to this shit, SciFi and tell me you aren't glad she's hell in right now getting torn apart by Wendigos.

Oh I certainly didn't like her. I like my journalists to be neutral and just give me the facts, not their opinions.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 02, 2013, 11:59:55 PM
I don't really fit in standard politics as it stands right now. In foreign policy, more Ronald Reagan, less Ron Paul.

What do you think of Rand Paul?

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 11:51:18 PM
A similar thing would happen in the UK and her territories, too. The Welsh would begin to annihilate the Scotch, who would then annihilate the Saxons, who would then make war on the Celts, who would then take up arms against the Norwegians.

We are all equal, right?

Better learn Scouse. They'll win hands down.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 03, 2013, 12:00:45 AM
Oh I certainly didn't like her. I like my journalists to be neutral and just give me the facts, not their opinions.

Well, she is dead now.

Just like RCH.

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 03, 2013, 12:01:35 AM
What do you think of Rand Paul?

More moderate than his father, but I'm not sure he can win a presidential election. I don't really have anyone to support in US politics, both sides of the aisle are anti-Space exploration, so I'm in the weeds at the moment.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 03, 2013, 12:08:29 AM
More moderate than his father, but I'm not sure he can win a presidential election. I don't really have anyone to support in US politics, both sides of the aisle are anti-Space exploration, so I'm in the weeds at the moment.

You should hook up with that dweeb that promotes going to the moon.

I saw a documentary on Netflix


Oh and rand Paul supports private space exploration.  Not expanding the NASA beurocratic machine.   (Or lie machine as hoagie would say, RIP RCH).

We really don't need nasa getting in the way of moon exploration.  We can hardly get into or it because they are a bunch of safety Sally's when we do have a launch vehicle.   

Quote from: DanTSX on December 03, 2013, 12:46:27 AM
You should hook up with that dweeb that promotes going to the moon.

I saw a documentary on Netflix


Oh and rand Paul supports private space exploration.  Not expanding the NASA beurocratic machine.   (Or lie machine as hoagie would say, RIP RCH).

We really don't need nasa getting in the way of moon exploration.  We can hardly get into or it because they are a bunch of safety Sally's when we do have a launch vehicle.

It's a pass the buck view because he doesn't want to spend the money. Private space exploration just hasn't got any reason go to the Moon and be able to profit without a massive government infrastructure already in place. They'll lose their ass if they try it, just like Columbus would have lost his if he didn't have the Spanish Crown backing him with ships and supplies.

What we really did was hand the Moon to China and India to fight over. It's a stupid move, given the moon's massive helium III resources. Those countries know what the future of that is. We prefer to dither and enact designed-to-fail healthcare systems while the rest of the world takes space from us bit by bit.

It's the 21st Century's version of Carter giving away the Panama Canal. Oh yes, it will be all nice, and such a friendly thing to do for Panama. Well, a front corporation for the Chinese Government runs it now while we ask permission to use it, just like we ask the Russians to take us to the space station.

Quote from: DanTSX on December 03, 2013, 12:46:27 AM
You should hook up with that dweeb that promotes going to the moon.

I saw a documentary on Netflix


Oh and rand Paul supports private space exploration.  Not expanding the NASA beurocratic machine.   (Or lie machine as hoagie would say, RIP RCH).

We really don't need nasa getting in the way of moon exploration.  We can hardly get into or it because they are a bunch of safety Sally's when we do have a launch vehicle.

I do agree with the safety sally part. Military aircraft crash all the time. C'est la vie. But a space craft, oh no, that's a national catastrophe. No, it's a cost of doing something worthwhile, and a loss of people that were well aware of the risk.

Quote from: tertiaryimam on December 02, 2013, 11:51:18 PM
A similar thing would happen in the UK and her territories, too. The Welsh would begin to annihilate the Scotch, who would then annihilate the Saxons, who would then make war on the Celts, who would then take up arms against the Norwegians.

We are all equal, right?

Hmmm, you and Dan really don't have a clue do you? Bless. On the off chance that the UK and Commonwealth monarch was forced to sign his or her own death warrant (and it's a legally binding document in the statute) and the entire structure of the monarchy was dismantled (In other words, a republic), the chances of the factions you mention actually being bothered to fight each other (They have enough chances after a skin full on a saturday night around Cardiff, Swansea, Glasgow, Newcastle, Liverpool and elsewhere) in an official capacity (assuming of course they can all be arsed to trace their ancestory back a thousend years) has as much chance as launching an attack on Norway...both landmasses of course being members of NATO.

Quote from: DanTSX on December 02, 2013, 10:53:25 PM

Can't sweep the gay away



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Windsor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Saxe-Coburg_and_Gotha

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/harrymount/100052262/it-wouldnt-be-shocking-to-have-a-german-queen-weve-already-got-one/

I'll let you take all the shots at my Kenyan president all you want.

No need to take shots at Obama: I question your provenance though. You're not American. How can you prove it?

Quote from: DanTSX on December 02, 2013, 10:58:58 PM
I already do all of those.

I'm not here to fuck with anyone.  You got yourself all bent out of shape.  You are in charge of yourself, nobody else.  I didn't make you do anything.

I just want the truth. 

I want to know if Jorch is one of those conspiracy guys that is against Israel, or if he will raise all of the boats in the harbor with the power of his tide, and support the Israeli state.

I asked this earlier, but so far neither you nor your tertiary friend has managed to answer it...odd that..

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 02, 2013, 06:10:11 PM

Oh yeah, pick out Noory, he's unique when it comes to humanity.. Cos EVERY other radio host is oh so sincere and so unambiguous, even those who don't have a permanent residence. Is he the only person you pick apart, or do you do it with everyone on TV and radio, and indeed the internet? And if not, why not?

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 03, 2013, 02:35:36 AM

Hmmm, you and Dan really don't have a clue do you? Bless. On the off chance that the UK and Commonwealth monarch was forced to sign his or her own death warrant (and it's a legally binding document in the statute) and the entire structure of the monarchy was dismantled (In other words, a republic), the chances of the factions you mention actually being bothered to fight each other (They have enough chances after a skin full on a saturday night around Cardiff, Swansea, Glasgow, Newcastle, Liverpool and elsewhere) in an official capacity (assuming of course they can all be arsed to trace their ancestory back a thousend years) has as much chance as launching an attack on Norway...both landmasses of course being members of NATO.

Sounds like we touched a sensitive spot.    Don't worry, you'll still be British as a republic, even without the German-reptilian parasites at the too doling out the royal indulgences of the state.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 03, 2013, 02:44:45 AM

I asked this earlier, but so far neither you nor your tertiary friend has managed to answer it...odd that..

That's up to George now isn't it?

Nobody was ever really asking you now were they?

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on December 03, 2013, 01:16:39 AM
I do agree with the safety sally part. Military aircraft crash all the time. C'est la vie. But a space craft, oh no, that's a national catastrophe. No, it's a cost of doing something worthwhile, and a loss of people that were well aware of the risk.

You should consider being an astronaut.  Can you fit in a Soyuz with 3 other people?

I wonder if George supports slavery?

Quote from: DanTSX on December 03, 2013, 06:06:38 AM
Sounds like we touched a sensitive spot.    Don't worry, you'll still be British as a republic, even without the German-reptilian parasites at the too doling out the royal indulgences of the state.

The sad part is; you really believe that...even  if you're not American.

Quote from: onan on December 03, 2013, 06:25:09 AM
I wonder if George supports slavery?

I'm thinking only for "thuh haterz." 

Quote from: DanTSX on December 03, 2013, 06:07:35 AM
That's up to George now isn't it?

Nobody was ever really asking you now were they?

To answer the question?
Is he the only person you pick apart, or do you do it with everyone on TV and radio, and indeed the internet? And if not, why not?

So do you? Who have you called to ask about their views on Israel?

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 03, 2013, 07:12:01 AM
 

To answer the question?
Is he the only person you pick apart, or do you do it with everyone on TV and radio, and indeed the internet? And if not, why not?

So do you? Who have you called to ask about their views on Israel?

This website is www.georgenoorysucks.com
He is a leading media figure with a worldwide audience who covered current affairs
His support or non support must be disclosed.

You are nobody, so nobody asked you.  But it appears that Israel is a touchy spot with you.  Quite telling.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on December 03, 2013, 06:49:57 AM
The sad part is; you really believe that...even  if you're not American.

I only seek the truth

The truth shall set you free

Quote from: onan on December 03, 2013, 06:25:09 AM
I wonder if George supports slavery?

Good question