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Lowest health spending growth ever measured after Obama care passage? Yup. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/historically-low-health-spending-growth-180000909.html;_ylt=A2KLOzHlKQVRwj8A_hLQtDMD

Medicaid spending dropping: http://www.pewstates.org/projects/stateline/headlines/new-data-show-medicaid-spending-growth-declined-in-2011-85899440879

Obama is driving lower and lower deficits from the high under Bush: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_deficit (lower each year) (this year under a trillion for the first time since Bush set the record)

Here is a website with all the data, I highly recommend it: www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/ 

The take-homes is that we got here through a long road, and it will take a  long road to get out and screaming that one President did it and it is his fault (when facts show he has actually improved deficit spending and growth) is simply wrong based on the data.

And, Obama will have the deficits down from the Bush high of over $1.4 trillion to numbers similar to prior Presidents when he leaves: http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/spending_chart_2008_2017USb_XXs1li111mcn_G0f

Andplease note the current deficit spending binge did not start with Obama, the curve changed in 1980 with Reagan's tax cuts: http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/debt_deficit_brief.php

Growth rate and spending are not the same thing.

Quote from: UFO Fill on January 27, 2013, 08:41:45 AM
Growth rate and spending are not the same thing.

my posts cover both, please read them.

Quote from: somatic hypermutation on January 27, 2013, 09:06:37 AM
my posts cover both, please read them.

He's not going to do that is he? It would mean he'd see he's wrong..We can't have that. 

Small article and video about the hypocrisy of Michael Bloomberg (et al.)

http://tinyurl.com/avpw3lh

I personally loved the line about having a sip of my soda (paraphrasing).

i'm only 7 pages behind on this thread.  christ almighty.

I guess this belongs in the political thread. Dennis Rodmans annoying attention seeking is pissing me off. Evidently he told kim jong un that he had a friend for life. Rodman really pulled a "jane fonda" move there. Not sure if hes a traitor, a dumbass, or both.

I vote for dumbass.

Quote from: coaster on February 28, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
I guess this belongs in the political thread. Dennis Rodmans annoying attention seeking is pissing me off. Evidently he told kim jong un that he had a friend for life. Rodman really pulled a "jane fonda" move there. Not sure if hes a traitor, a dumbass, or both.

I thought it very interesting that the State Department condemned the Google CEO for going to North Korea, but Rodman was blessed saying something like "this is sports."  I think Rodamn may have gone on an actual peace mission.  In one of the few pics of the current Dear Leader he is wearing a Rodman jersey from the Bulls days.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/basketball-stars-north-korea-dennis-1735864

I agree with you on Rodman. The thing is the people are starving to death there. I am sure the tours they took Rodman on were all staged to look like it was a nice place to go. Just like the Jane Fonda story about the prisoners being cleaned up and wearing pajamas to meet Jane. I wish these sports people would wake up and get educated on the realities of life.
And I am kind of worried now about the social security cuts and medicare cuts that will take place. Boy, we sure have problems here. Let us take care of our own problems.

The Things that Annoy thread had a few posts discssing ObamaCare.  I figured this is a better place for it

From the start the goal was to make the whole healthcare process as awful as possible so we would beg them to implement European-style government funded heathcare. Complete with the debilitating taxes.  The Ds have been dreaming of this and pushing it for decades.  With Obama in the White House and complete control of the House and Senate they seized their chance - but it would be so unpopular they still had to do it in a 2 step process.  Step 1 being the ObamaCare mess.

And with less than half the people earning enough to owe taxes and file a Federal tax return (retired, welfare, still young and not making much yet, the unemployed, working under the table, and the takers) - and thinking any extra taxes to pay for it won't affect them - it just might work.  Because the middle class - and 'The Rich' - still have so much extra cash laying around that could be better spent by our government.  So let's make sure every taker out there is registered to vote the next couple times around and take back the House.

One benefit for the America haters in the White House, DC, and the Media, was to leave ashes behind where there had once been the worlds finest heathcare delivery system, whether their plan is thwarted or not.

Another benefit for the America haters is that various companies are handling dramatically increasing healthcare insurance costs in a variety of ways - at some places people are getting laid off rather than pay for the increase in healthcare insurance or the 'tax', spouses and kids are no longer being covered on some companies plans, some employees hours are being reduced so they will no longer be considered 'full time' and eligible for the company insurance plans, other companies are dropping healthcare plans completely figuring the 'tax' is cheaper.  They certainly aren't adding employees.  Probably more companies will throw in the towell and move operations offshore.  Of course these measures of self preservation will be seen as exclusively due to the 'greed' of  'The Rich' and 'The Corporations'.

By the way, after insistently breathlessly demanding Romney provide the details of his Economic Plan every day for months, have the Media gotten around to asking Obama about his Plan yet - other than the above, combined with a continuation of massive $1.5 TRILLION annual deficit spending?   It's really done wonders for the economy so far, right?  Or are they content to sit back and watch his performance as the human wrecking ball.

Is there one factually supportable supposition in that post Paper Boy?  Please find actual support for all that stuff.

Quote from: somatic hypermutation on March 09, 2013, 10:57:34 PM
Is there one factually supportable supposition in that post Paper Boy?  Please find actual support for all that stuff.

Termites don't write white papers disclosing their plans.  They just keep chewing until either the house is gone or they are stopped.


If you don't think I've connected the dots properly, given what's been happening right in front of us over 4 years now, I'd like to hear what you think is going on.  Start with Saul Alinsky and his obsession with destroying the Middle Class - and how to do it.  Look up Obama being influenced by him.  Listen to Obama's comments (when he gets off the tele-prompter) and actions (using Alinsky tactics at every turn) through that lens, and get back to me.


As for ObamaCare, look at the devastating insurance 'taxes' that are going to be implemented.  What will the effect be on the Middle Class?  Here is a flow chart for the new healthcare system - down the road when it's all fully implemented. You tell me if you think the authors of this mess were truly doing their best for the country.  When looking at this, recall the stated long term goal by many (most?) Libs and Leftists in our country since at least as far back as the 1930s is a European style government run healthcare system.  Ask yourself how all this helps them toward that goal.

[attachimg=1]

Insurance is a heavily regulated industry and looked much the same prior to Obamacare.

Policy wonks and healthcare advocates are not termites, there are thousands of papers on the real effect of Obamacare and the costs and how i works, both pro and con.  At least use facts gleaned from real sources, and not Rush.

Quote from: somatic hypermutation on March 10, 2013, 07:07:44 AM
... use facts gleaned from real sources, and not Rush.

My opinions are my own, and they are just that - opinions.  I'm just connecting dots as I see them.  I'm sure you've seen newspapers and magazines that carry news and also carry opinion pieces, and know the difference.

What might be better is to ask why I think this or that, not demand proof of some comment.  And as always, you or anyone are free to disagree.

Quote from: somatic hypermutation on March 10, 2013, 07:07:44 AM
Insurance is a heavily regulated industry and looked much the same prior to Obamacare..

I looks the same because much of it isn't implemented yet.  That bill isn't thousands of pages long setting up dozens of new boards, commissions, bureaucracies and agencies because it's some minor bill with little impact.

Remember the Ds had so much confidence in it that they delayed implementation of nearly all of it until after the 2012 election, and more of it is still delayed until after the 2014 election.  If it's so great, why phase it in so that it will be almost impossible to overturn, and delay what people see it to be until after elections rather than before them?

I could ask why companies are canceling  employee health insurance as a benefit, having people work less hours in order not to qualify for it as full timers, throwing spouses and children off the policies, not hiring workers so as not to pay for their policies, but all I'd get back is something about greedy corporations taking advantage of the change to screw us and blah blah blah, so I won't.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on March 27, 2013, 05:01:18 PM

" So Senator Reid, just what did the greys do to you when they abducted you from your car in Searchlight after the accident ? ... and how WILL it affect the budget process and the sequester ? "

I had forgot that there would be an inevitable tie in to the sequester.  I had (mistakenly) assumed that line of questioning might run more along the lines of;


Can you tell our listeners if you were abducted by the good, helpful, republican green aliens of the evil, anal-probing democratic greys?  Did it change your views on same-sex marriage?

Quote from: WOTR on March 27, 2013, 08:39:20 PM
I had forgot that there would be an inevitable tie in to the sequester.  I had (mistakenly) assumed that line of questioning might run more along the lines of;


Can you tell our listeners if you were abducted by the good, helpful, republican green aliens of the evil, anal-probing democratic greys?  Did it change your views on same-sex marriage?

That's funny.

But what if competing sets of aliens both tried to abduct him at once and one set had to clone him so both sets could get some Harry Reid dna ?

I admit it. I've listened to Rush since he first went on the air when I lived in Sacramento for 10 years, though I don't always agree with him I do like him.

I'm always amused by the people who say they can't stand him, call him pompous or a blowhard yet also say that they never listen to him, yet seem to know in detail what he talked about that day, week or month.

It's much like those who also decry and badmouth Fox News yet they ALSO claim they never watch it.

I think they secretly do but will never admit it to their liberal friends.

Quote from: Falkie2013 on March 28, 2013, 05:25:38 AM
That's funny.

But what if competing sets of aliens both tried to abduct him at once and one set had to clone him so both sets could get some Harry Reid dna ?

I admit it. I've listened to Rush since he first went on the air when I lived in Sacramento for 10 years, though I don't always agree with him I do like him.

I'm always amused by the people who say they can't stand him, call him pompous or a blowhard yet also say that they never listen to him, yet seem to know in detail what he talked about that day, week or month.

It's much like those who also decry and badmouth Fox News yet they ALSO claim they never watch it.

I think they secretly do but will never admit it to their liberal friends.

I do find it highly amusing that some Americans define people by what their political persuasions are and only their political persuasions. Can you hear the likes of Rush Asshole, Alex Asshole, Glen Asshole and arrive at the conclusion they're assholes only if you're liberal leaning?; or as some Americans believe liberal to be, anyone who thinks hurricanes are caused by barometric pressure and not gay weddings? Where would someone who has both 'right' and 'left' convictions be pigeonholed by either end of the spectrum?

Actually, Yorkie, the branding of everything as political is a tactic of Saul Alinsky, the mentor of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

Quote from: UFO Fill on March 28, 2013, 06:44:16 AM
Actually, Yorkie, the branding of everything as political is a tactic of Saul Alinsky, the mentor of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

Are you sure? The US presidential elections (and the candidate selections before) get quite a lot of coverage by our news teams over here. They have for years. Of course because your system is different to ours, they take time to explain how it works (I think most are still non the wiser, or actually give a damn, if the complaints that are lodged with the BBC about the degree of coverage is anything to go by). Anyway, I recollect from years ago some guy Dukakas? (sp) was in the mix;  and our news was playing the quite nasty ads used, denigrating the opposition used by all sides.. and they played a selection of Rep/Dem ads that was being shown on your TV channels: the line from memory was something like "Mike, admit it, you're liberal"..The reporter then had to explain that in the US, liberal is often used as an insult, and even more surprisingly, taken as an insult. There then followed a discussion in the studio about the candidates etc.. I'm guessing that Dukakas was a democrat?

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on March 28, 2013, 07:02:03 AM

.. I'm guessing that Dukakas was a democrat?

Yeah, can't you tell?

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on March 28, 2013, 07:02:03 AM

Are you sure?

Yes.  The theories are set out in his book, Rules For Radicals, published in the late 60s or early 70s.  He had been formulating and acting on his rules for many years before publishing the book.  He is somewhat of a follower of Gramski.  Since the election of Obama, folks on the right have been reading Alinsky's book and have adopted his methods.  It all amounts to stirring up the populace simply to make political points - it has nothing to do with making the lives of people any better.

Quote from: UFO Fill on March 28, 2013, 10:50:02 AM
...  Since the election of Obama, folks on the right have been reading Alinsky's book and have adopted his methods...

And are realizing what we have in the White House and at the top of the Democrat Party, and trying to awaken the rest of the population to it.

Quote from: UFO Fill on March 28, 2013, 10:50:02 AM
It all amounts to stirring up the populace simply to make political points - it has nothing to do with making the lives of people any better.

Oh, come on UFO Fill, both sides have been stirring the shit for a long time. Karl Rove was/still is a master, Lee Atwater. Carville on the other side.
Abortion really was important? gays in marriage or military are the big issues?
I know I am biased so I say this with some reticence, but I believe the right has done a much better job of these tactics than the left has. 

The current political climate sure makes it rough on us avowed centrists.

Looking at the Geroge Noory Sucks thread, the discussion has turned to a comparison between the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street. 

On one side it appears to be boiled down to the Tea Party being nothing but a front group for the Koch Brothers, while OWS is a bunch of nurses and teachers.  That is precisely the narrative Big Media and the Left want to project.

This is a perfect example of how we are manipulated by Big Media to end up with moldable tools like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barrack Obama - a Perfect Storm of Incompetence, Corruption, Marxism and lust for Power.  All paid for with tax grabs and borrowing us into bankruptcy.

I don't think OWS can be compared realistically to the Tea Party. First off, are they supporting any candidates? I certainly haven't seen a Grover Norquist type speaking in their stead.



I don't remember much positive press about OWS... then again I don't frequent the daily news.


So read this or don't:


http://www.financeaddict.com/2011/10/bank-transfer-day/

I'll move my comments over here, too.
I don't disagree with you, Onan.  My point is that Alinsky first, so far as I know, advocated everything being political.  The folks you named came after Alinsky.  My point about conservatives is that they are now actually reading Alinsky and putting his rules into action, rather than just muckraking.

Quote from: UFO Fill on March 28, 2013, 04:05:24 PM
I'll move my comments over here, too.
I don't disagree with you, Onan.  My point is that Alinsky first, so far as I know, advocated everything being political.  The folks you named came after Alinsky.  My point about conservatives is that they are now actually reading Alinsky and putting his rules into action, rather than just muckraking.

You are right about the reading of alinsky. From what I have read Newt considers his strategies genius.