BellGab.com Archive

Quote from: trostol on November 15, 2015, 11:29:22 PM
know what makes me sad..that there are people that think this was a hoax

Don't misunderstand me. I know that they happened. I know that Isis has claimed responsibility. I'm just questioning who's behind it. Is it really JUST a rogue group of fundamentalist Muslims? I've just been around long enough to know that the easy answers and reactions aren't usually the right ones. I hope they get ALL the people responsible for this.

Quote from: Eddie Coyle on November 15, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
   I think we need to dispense with the "Why do they hate us?" and just conclude "Yeah, they fuckin' hate us. Perhaps letting them in isn't a great idea"

    Every goddamn Muslim now thinks they're a displaced Palestinian.

It's a big world with lots of different people in it. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think most immigrant come here because they believe in our ideals. They either see an economic opportunity or an opportunity to escape some sort of oppression but once they get here they'll still be who they are. In my country it's not just Muslims that have been buying up property and moving in. There are also plenty of Chinese and Indians and Filipinos too. We also got a bunch of Bosnians, Serbians and Romanians back in the early to mid 90s.  Hey, I wish white people stuck together the way a lot of other ethnic groups do but we just don't anymore. It's every man for himself with us unless it's some horrible Nazi-like organization dedicated to hating anyone who's not us. We're also not breeding much anymore compared to other ethnic groups. Even China recently allowed people to have a second child. So, in a few short decades we will be the minority, like it or not. It's like the rest of the world caught us slipping and now they're saying, "I'll have that, thank you." Can you blame them?

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on November 15, 2015, 10:47:32 PM
It just depends on how this goes. If they keep committing these kinds of terrorist attacks, then we run out of options and must be proactive for defensive reasons. In the Iraq war, it was a bit different, that was cooked intelligence and we were led to believe that it was defensive when in fact it was nothing of the sort. With ISIS I think we're past that stage.

So, they were lying the last few times but now it's all real? I hope you understand my skepticism.

Quote from: bateman on November 15, 2015, 10:34:50 PM
Fair point. 2003 is fresh in everyone's mind as well. But Iraq's links to 9/11 were tenuous even then. ISIS is undoubtedly responsible for the attacks in Paris, downing a passenger jet, another bombing in Beirut and terrorizing their neighbors. This isn't exactly faked intel this time around.

Still, you'd want to get the people ultimately responsible for it and if the terrorist turn out to be some sort of agent provocateur front for something more complex then what?

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on November 15, 2015, 10:07:16 PM
The problem is that groups like Japan and ISIS have the habit of striking you to the point that you end up with no choice but to annihilate them.

Well, I'm certainly not defending either of them; and believe me, I could so easily join in with these war cries. I just know that in a few weeks or months from now when all the dust settles and all the facts are in that I'd feel like duped idiot if I did. The last time I gave the US the benefit of doubt about a military mission was the gulf war and pretty soon regretted it.

Quote from: Eddie Coyle on November 15, 2015, 09:55:17 PM
       BLM supports ISIS. ISIS is definitively "anti-white", therefore a spiritual ally to BLM.

       The coming ISIS attacks in America will have African Americans in major roles. They already have. The Pamela Geller attack being an example.

Historically, I think they make some valid points from their perspective but the calling for more violence is a line-crosser.

Quote from: bateman on November 15, 2015, 09:50:03 PM
What do you think the solution is? It isn't diplomacy, IS cannot be reasoned with. Any opposition to thousand year-old texts is invalid. The solution is extermination.

I don't know but I think it might help to think historically about what it's been like in the past when the US has faced an enemy committed to death before defeat. The last time was Vietnam and that didn't turn out so well. Before that it was the Japanese and it took a nuclear bomb before they said uncle. Do we really want to go there? Perhaps it can't be solved with diplomacy alone but let's not become the monster we're trying to defeat in the process.

Quote from: albrecht on November 15, 2015, 09:27:27 PM
I could give you a list of neighborhoods that deserve more than 'no knock' raids throughout France, Belgium, The Netherlands, and Germany. There are whole parts that are chock full of various and sundry Islamists and often radical and young. They trash out the area, ride their damn illegal scooters/mini-bikes without mufflers, sell bad hash, harass women or homos or Jews, hang laundry everywhere, commit petty crime, force their women to wear garb (even in a hot summer when they run around in shorts), live so many people to a house that no way in meets zoning, riot (especially in France and Sweden,) and never seem to work- at age from teens to old men- but just hang out on the dole smoking or drinking coffee and, I guess, worse. And this was BEFORE the latest 'refugees' started coming into Europe!
No-knock? They should kick in the doors, then kick them in the head, and then kick them out of those countries. In my humble opinion.

I understand your criticism. I even posted a video showing some of the scenes you describe. However, what you're talking about sounds more like joining than beating. I don't think we can defeat terrorists by being just like them. I understand how upset everyone is. Me too but ends justifying means schemes really never work because you never really achieve the desired ends and are just left to deal with traumatic aftermath of the means, which just become seeds for more dissension in the future. I wish the solution were as easy as just kicking some Muslim ass but I don't think so.

Quote from: bateman on November 15, 2015, 08:23:50 PM
Report from inside Raqqa tonight:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/11/15/paris-terrorist-attacks-airstrikes/75837088/

I don't know about you but it really bothers me how hospitals have become acceptable targets now. Did they just scrap the Geneva Convention altogether? This is the kind of shit that creates terrorists in the first place.

I still think that there are a few telling aspects to this situation that people should consider. First, how did the terrorists get so heavily armed? We're told that there were weapons caches left for the Iraqis that were seized when they retreated. However, I'm pretty sure this is intel that the US would've gotten pretty quickly. Why wouldn't they have sent some drones into to blow that stuff up rather than let it fall into the hands of an enemy of the state, especially one that's already done so much damage? Second, why after everything we've been through and all the official stories we've been told would the US be more interested in Assad than Isis (or whatever of the myriad of names they've been called)? I get that he's not a nice guy but the US has buddied up to lots of trolls and monsters over the years when there was something they wanted more (usually oil). Shouldn't they have wanted to defeat Isis more than Assad? Sorry, but I can't help seeing the terrorists as Goldstein to the US's Big Brother. I mean they're using this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker on all of us but now we're told that the reason the terrorists keep getting away with it is they're really clever and are using encryption now. Alright, since they're not using openly accessible communication anymore you can stop spying on the rest of us, right? Fat chance. Welcome to the new world order!

I think when America realized that they could use religious fundamentalists as a weapon to defeat a major superpower (USSR) they thought, "Wow! What can't you do with these guys?" And the fun has never stopped since. Well, if they could defeat a major superpower like communist Russia why wouldn't they try to go for total world domination next?

Quote from: Robert on November 14, 2015, 10:22:15 PM
That in turn reminds me of Dashiel Hammett's Red Harvest.

That's definitely going on my must read list!

Forgive me for being a conspiracy theorist but if not here then where? Shouldn't we at least consider that the terrorists may actually be sheep dip in all this and that this whole thing may be an intentional attempt to flood and overwhelm our democratic institutions toward the goal of some sort of global leveling. By who and to what end I'm not sure but if I had to guess I'd say by those with the most money to some sort of feudal slave system that benefits them the most. It's just a theory but one based on years of observation.

For France:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM-E2H1ChJM

Sorry, terrorists but you're the Nazis in this one.

If only the battle could be this easy and beautiful.

Vive la France!

Quote from: albrecht on November 14, 2015, 09:08:15 PM
They did try but we wouldn't let them. Same in Chechnya where Europe got all mad. "Oh the atrocities" and all that crap. And also when we supported the terrorist Muslims against the Serbs. I say forget the Brzezinski/Kissinger crap and stop focusing, so much, on Russia and let Russia (and the Serbs) take care of this scum and do it as brutally as necessary. Since we don't have the will or stomach for it. We could use our resources to root out the fifth column Muslims already living in our countries and deport them or, at a bare minimum, monitor and profile them.

Hmm...sounds like a deal with the devil and traditionally they don't usually work out so well. This reminds me of the story about the town who had a rat problem and so they got some snakes...well, needless to say it didn't end there.

I know what you're saying though, albrecht. It's essentially this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm36o0ZUWI

I'm just not convinced that is genius. I still tend to lean toward the insanity side on this one but you/he may be right. It's one of the things about that movie that continues to haunt me to this day.

Quote from: Mind Flayer Monk on November 14, 2015, 07:45:29 PM
Brzezinski didn't go out and get Saudi funding and then arm and train Saudis to fight in Afghanistan. James Baker did that.

Right. Brzezinski just whacked the beehive but it was Baker that got to use the bees. I wonder who got the honey?

Anyway, the news report said he was on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border "to set about rallying resistance" because "he wanted to arm the mujahideen without revealing America's role."

Quote from: FLLFlash on November 14, 2015, 05:55:40 PM
Allowing the Serbs and Russians to work on this problem makes a great deal of sense. They have a lot of skin in the game and cannot afford to lose.

Didn't they already try very hard in the late 70s/early 80s in Afghanistan? Of course, this evil genius: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/162691-the-technotronic-era-involves-the-gradual-appearance-of-a-more made it very hard for them by training and arming the people we're currently discussing. The irony is almost crushing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho0DQUU0_50

Sorry, I know this is kinda long and I might be blathering but I'm just trying to think about this whole thing openly and honestly now. Regarding the refugee situation, if the reality of it turned out like it was on the bridge of the USS Enterprise I'd be all for it. A UN inspired collection of individuals of all stripes and colors working together toward common goals for the benefit and betterment of all. Hell, I'd even join hands and sing Kumbaya too. However, the reality of refugee influx isn't like that at all. Most ethnic groups rather than assimilating, mixing and mingling with everyone just keep to themselves and form their own society within ours until they are politically strong enough to change the system itself. Which is now starting to happen. So rather than the progressive atmosphere of the USS Enterprise what you get is something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltyhmrIFgo

I've been watching various refugee groups come here for years and never really observe any direct benefit to myself. On the contrary, many groups often seem hostile toward established citizens. It seems to benefit them a great deal though. I'm not a xenophobe though. I have nothing against any particular ethic group. It's just that rather than assimilating into an established system they eventually just end up changing it fundamentally. And hey, I'm sure any current system probably does need some fundamental changes but changes for the better hopefully. No one wants to be ruled by fear but in some sense we all are. Terrorists are a very immediate fear but there are also a lot of mechanisms of fear in our own "democratic" societies too. They're often more subtle but just as real. Who here fears being poor? Think hard about how you perceive and treat someone in your life that is unemployed or even underemployed and struggling. For many if not most it's something like this: Fuckin loser! Bum! Get your shit together and get a job! In other words if you lose financial control in your life there must be something fundamentally wrong with you as a person in this society because it couldn't be the system itself that's wrong. And here perhaps Muslims do have a legitimate point of criticism about our society. Maybe we are too materialistic and class based? However, I don't think the establishment of a theocracy is the answer. It just creates a class system built around priests rather rich and/or strong men. I mean, from a historical perspective science is really just beginning to break free from the yolk of religion now. I'd hate to see us go backwards to a dark age. So, where do we go? What do we do? I don't know but I think the answer has to start in understanding ourselves as a speicies better than we currently do. In this regard I've found this man's thinking very interesting and intriguing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy9UgYimPOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU

Sorry, I know this was long and maybe even hard to digest but after last night I had to get it out. Maybe we're at that point in history where we all need to try to digest a little more

Dream of dildos! Goodnight, all.

Quote from: (Sandman) Logan-5 on November 14, 2015, 03:47:19 AM
It usually goes unnoticed underneath our masks and cowl.
We're really just a bunch of party animals manipulating the force for more cookies.

So, there WILL be cookies!

Quote from: (Sandman) Logan-5 on November 14, 2015, 03:33:03 AM
We Are Sith. 

Aw! I should've known. I'm going to have to cross universes to get through this. Spock is my only solace now. He knows about the pain and emptiness I'm going through now.
!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6tJQ05YJ58

Quote from: (Sandman) Logan-5 on November 14, 2015, 03:22:57 AM
Oh Yah, One thing you should know though...

What? No cookies?!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgZIYdFmZqc

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on November 14, 2015, 03:20:45 AM
A fine case study would be Whitley Strieber. He's never actually said that what he claims is real, he always caveats that it could all be in his own head if pushed. He does that for a reason, he was a novelist that started to fail and needed something else to stimulate sales so he came up with something crazy. He may actually believe it. It was one hell of a move from a financial standpoint though.

Yeah, but The Hunger is still one of the best vampire movies.

Quote from: Darth Sandra on November 14, 2015, 03:11:48 AM
Yes! Join us! We're better than Scientology too!

The Jedi keep getting defeated anyway. They just can't keep it together...and they don't have cool red lightsabres like you guys. I think I'm sold.

Quote from: Darth Sandra on November 14, 2015, 03:07:54 AM
The Sith is recruiting! I've done away with that whole rule of 2 thing btw haha

I'm gettin pretty tired of gettin pushed around, sand kicked in my face....Could your organization help me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0YkPnwoYyE

Quote from: zeebo on November 14, 2015, 02:40:59 AM
Ok a minimum of 12 years aged .. but yep, sign me up too.

Oooh! A single malt scotch party breaking out. Make mine a double on the rocks, please. 

Is it just me or does it sound like aliens keep trying to break into the feed tonight? (During Art too)

I really think someone has to do a cooking show called The Useless Eater now. Anthony Bourdain should hop on that one!

I hadn't checked out Bellgab until Hoagland's meltdown last week; but before I did I felt inspired to write a letter The Dark Matter Digital Network about the situation. For what it's worth here it is:

Hi. I love that Art Bell is back on the air. I think he's a top notch talk host who displays grace, dignity and intelligence on his show. However, I've tried to give Richard Hogland's show scheduled immediately after a chance and have not found this to be true of Mr. Hogland. He most often comes across as a fussy old school marm, scolding his guests and listeners; cutting in on them when they're speaking to egotistically pontificate and expound upon his own ideas; and often making people wait while he gets hung up on seemingly technical problems that most would quickly move past. Tonight he started the show by scolding people for falling asleep while listening to it and "eating up his bandwidth." Then he referred to these people as "unproductive eaters." That's when I shut it off. I don't think I'll tune back in either. Which is too bad because I really do appreciate science based discussions about fantastic and as yet unexplained phenomena, just not with this host. Please, follow MITD with a show hosted by someone worthy enough to follow Art Bell. I actually haven't found too many other programs worthy of regular listening on the Dark Matter Digital Network other than MITD. So, please keep doing that for a long time to come. Thanks.

Ok, so I lied about not tuning back in. I realize that what I'm doing is akin to slowing down at an accident scene to get a better look but, hey, I'm human too  Anyway, here's the response I got the next day:

So please offer me up someone better to replace it with. I can't find any.
He's still the 2nd highest rated program on the network.

I'm not sure who was responding but make of it what you will.