BellGab.com Archive

Quote from: henge0stone on July 28, 2015, 07:23:10 PM
http://bellgab.com/index.php/topic,5021.0.html

the torrent is here if you don't have it. I highly recommend it, lots of shows the old one didn't have and lots of Dreamland shows.

WOW!
Thanks!
I'll check that out right away!

Quote from: DanTSX on July 23, 2015, 12:47:55 PM
Maybe the way back home is through a a black hole behind Uranus


Still no proof.  Just an lot of "might be's"

If I had proof I would be collecting a noble prize.

Midnight in the Desert seems to place to imagine beyond the point where you have good peer reviewed evidence

Hancock lines in the West Country, he'd lose all credibility there if he DIDN'T ever smoke dope 16 hours a day!

Bristol / Bath lifestyle!

Quote from: DanTSX on July 22, 2015, 06:44:12 PM
A little scientific proof would be nice.

As far as proof:

We are actively looking for alien civilizations with SETI.

We are looking for potentially habitable worlds with space telescopes.

We are investigating local bodies in our solar system hoping to discover more about exobiology.

So there is a growing consensus that detection of astrobiology is a "when" instead of an "if"

Or more plainly put, lots of scientists are hedging their bets that aliens exist.


There have been some experiments I've heard of trying to confirm the existence of "nearby" extra dimensions. In some models these dimensions should be detectable, but so far, far as I know, there's not been any luck. But if I remember correctly these experiments weren't very robust and wouldn't
detect anything unless it was mega obvious.

So this is far more speculative, but it has received some scientific investigation.

As for "demons", I don't know what those are or how you would devise an experiment to detect them.

Quote from: DanTSX on July 22, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
Space Alien rape doesn't exist because Alien abduction doesn't exist.  Not on this planet at least.

We don't know if it exists as a purely psychological phenomenon or if there is some physical event which is contributing toward people reporting it.

I am pretty sure the "alien abduction" phenomenon exists, because here we all are talking about it.

Broadly speaking it appears many people slot it into one of these camps

1) EVERYONE who reports this is crazy

2) EVERYONE who reports this is a con artist / liar

3) Abductions are performed by aliens originating from some physical location within our universe

4) Abductions are performed by some sort of supernatural beings (demons, angels, etc)

5) Abductions are performed by some sort of "alien", but from some other realm (another dimension)

6) Abductions are performed by the US Military for black projects and aliens are a cover


I believe that many who report the abduction experience, frankly fall into categories 1 and 2.
It can be nearly impossible to determined which one is which though.

I COULD eventually be convinced that #6 is something which has happened -- because after all the US Government has done some pretty strange things over the years.  I'd like more information.


3/4/5 all rely on the reporter's intrepretation of what was experienced.

For example, I don't believe in demons and angels personally, so I would be totally unlikely to ascribe any experience to them.

Also, I have no idea how I could determine in an unknown creature was from another planet, another dimension, another time, an unidentified location on earth, etc.

There's no way you'd ever get a definitive answer between 3/4/5, so that's troubling.
And it's EASIER to assume 1, 2, and, to some degree in rare cases, even 6.

I am curious about your caveat above though

"On this planet a least"

So you hold out the option that on some planet in the universe it could exist?

But you exclude the planet earth for some reason?

Quote from: DanTSX on July 22, 2015, 10:24:17 AM

Pulling A man's dentures out is in no way comparable to buttfucking

I was referring to the giant needle Betty Hill reported as being painfully jabbed into her abdomen.

So, are we only belittling males who report invasive treatment?

Quote from: DanTSX on July 22, 2015, 10:22:09 AM

So are space aliens.   

Appearing in whitley's room uninvited, taking him out to their flying saucer, and then forming a big ol' buttfuck train to run on him before drugging him to make him forget.

Conservationatists due roughly the same thing to wild animals everyday.

Quote from: Jackstar on July 22, 2015, 03:53:39 AM

I know my sentence was clunky and a bit tortured there.
I'll try to express that idea in a different way at some point.
Sometimes I think there's a limited normal vocabulary for extraordinary experiences and claims.

Quote from: Azzerae on July 22, 2015, 04:10:58 AM
I feel he's being singled out because he is a man. If he were a woman, it would be a different story. As a fan of Strieber's I come to his defence here. Larry king even laughed in his face, which I consider absolutely cruel. No one laughs at female rape, but somehow when it happens to a man, folks think its OK to laugh.

I disagree. Whitley was one of the first experiencers ever to attempt articulating this coherently... and he succeeded in doing so. IMHO.

I was originally going to write something pretty much like what you've said above but backed off a bit.

What I meant was that in regards to claims of invasive medical examinations -- those claims are now pretty routine, and probably have been a strong recurring theme since Betty and Barney Hill.

However, yes Whitley is more skilled in conveying this as he is a professional writer.

He's taken a lot of heat for that fact as well.

But hey, if a professional painter or illustrator had this experience and did a better than average job visually representing their experience, would everyone attack them?

Probably so.

I'm not sure what everyone would ideally expect though.
That only unskilled, inarticulate, people have paranormal experiences?

I'm currently reading Warday, which is an incredibly good book.

It's about another universe, with another Whitley and Anne, who have also been through some hard times.

I find the comments on here really puzzling. Why is Whitley being singled out for describing what seems to be a frankly routine aspect of what people report as part of the abduction experience?

Has Whitley been abducted? Has ANYONE been abducted?
I don't know.
Why doesn't Betty Hill get the same hate and mockery?
She also described some pretty gruesome physical abuse and medical procedures on her person, as a component of her report of her abduction experience.
So have lots of people.
Whitley's not unique here.

Quote from: MaxGravy on July 08, 2015, 07:09:07 PM
I think Richard will do just fine. He has a lot of broadcasting experience and surely recognizes this golden opportunity. With age comes wisdom and patience. Give him a chance. I expect great things once he gets comfortable with the format.

Yes, he's worked on CBS as a science advisor to God. People, he'll be fine.
He'll step us all through a long winded slide show, only instead of pictures of his children at the beach, it will be of robot heads on the moon only he can see.

Quote from: widespread1 on October 31, 2013, 09:54:09 PM
She lives at Dorothea Puente's place.

I lived directly across the road at the time.
One of the creepiest times ever. And the police were so incompetent.

Anyone know if this show is kicking around anywhere?
I just remember being glued to the radio that night

Date:    Friday - May 17, 2002
Host:    Art Bell
Guests:    The Amazing Kreskin

'Gabriel,' a mercenary, tells how he breaks people out of foreign jails.

First Hour: The Amazing Kreskin shares his prediction that there'll be a large UFO sighting in Nevada.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 07, 2015, 12:56:05 AM
It's only apparent chaos, underlying the universe are very basic, very logical laws and that's that. Everything complies to those laws. Computers are going to realize that.

Actually I think they can predict us. We are really just an illogical amalgam of emotional reactions that can probably be predicted on the level of the neuron. On that level we're just chemicals and electrical impulses and a superintelligent computer could probably predict us individually. All that's needed is nano-tech to probe how our brains think.

I think there is a fundamental limitation that comes into play.
In order to have full knowledge of all the variables, you need to be able to make complete observations of everything.
Without totally comprehensive observations of everything -- the best you can develop are incredibly good models.
Maybe models strong enough to predict 99.9999999% of the observations.
Which is probably more than good enough, admittedly.
But I still think that any gaps in, or lack of depth in, observations, will leave ever increasing holes in the model.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 07, 2015, 12:53:05 AM
It's probably more likely that they would create a "I have the best buzz program" model where they try to control people by virtual drugs.

Ah!  So you have a sort of "Brave New World" model where you try to control people with pleasure?

That's been an interesting idea which science fiction has explored, but I don't see any evidence of humans actually trying to deploy that in a mass scale.

My guess is that its easier to keep people scared than to keep them happy.

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on July 07, 2015, 12:42:40 AM
Not to diminish your point, but I think human societal behaviour becomes very predictable once you are able to track enough variables.  Even individual humans if you know enough about their background.  Actually I'm hoping to do this by developing a neural net to scan newspapers and try to establish trends it can link to the stock market.  I've been planning to do that for 20 years though.

Oh yeah, I agree. And humans do this very well. We have an instinctual understanding of what people are likely or not likely to do in a given situation.

So for instance, we know that if our friend Jim is slightly more quiet than usual, he is probably depressed about something.

We know that if we blatantly make sexual advances toward Stephanie, we are unlikely to succeed in attaining any sort sexual contact.

We know that our boss has been exhibiting signs of greater stress than usual this week, so they are likely to leave a bit early on Friday.

Just some silly examples. But socialisation is a key factor in making predictions.
There was some study which compared chimpanzees and dogs in their ability to guess and react to human body language.
Chimpanzees are evolutionary much closer to humans, but dogs beat them everytime.
Most likely explanation is that dogs have lived alongside humans for tens of thousands of years and therefore their ability to read human behaviour is a lot more closely linked to their daily survival needs.

Humans are predictable to a large degree. But they aren't perfectly predictable, and that probably makes the deviations that much more dramatic and shocking.

Our universe seems to work on a basis of probability. If you see the universe as black and white -- its likely to bite you on the ass. Eventually.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 07, 2015, 12:32:40 AM
I don't think you can develop culture if you function on basic logic. There is a right answer and a wrong answer to everything and cultures are simply collections of human ideas that persist without logic, such as religion or social memes like marriage. Computers won't get that. They will simply ask us why we engage in such things and we, alien or human, will have no idea how to answer.

I don't believe there is a right answer and wrong answer to everything.
The universe doesn't function like this. This is why we have fuzzy logic. Chaos theory.

I think you are right, that any clued up computer intelligence will be completely baffled by human society. But I also think that as it encounters more of the universe, it will encounter systems which are beyond its ability to predict -- humans being the first example.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 07, 2015, 12:30:22 AM
Sure, if we decide to simply not develop those technologies. That's very possible, we may handle it very carefully and maintain our humanity without going crazy with the tech. But, our political systems are not currently prepared for it and it's something that we're going to need to stay on top of as it develops. Tech development is exponential, not linear, so the tech development goes faster and faster and becomes increasingly mind-boggling the further we go along. Well, our politicians are reactive in outlook, not proactive, so expect trouble.

As far as beer, it won't go away. Getting drunk just becomes something we download.

If you can get drunk, or high, or achieve states of mental ecstasy via an easy download -- isn't it pretty damned likely that someone, somewhere is going to try to build up a great big firewall to block those downloads. Or to track down who downloaded this or that state of existence and do something pretty nasty to their 1s and 0s?

This is the thing.

Whenever Noory gets out of his depth, and he can't understand what the hell a guest is talking about, he asks this question --

"So, in all your career, in all you've done, what one thing have you found most fascinating?"

When he asks that, he's essentially begging the guest for a life line.

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on July 07, 2015, 12:08:00 AM
That's enough to make me want to live in the park and forage for food with zeebo.  Any possible futures where we remain fully biologically human and enjoy drinking beer?

Yeah, I'm not too fond of the "god-like technological super being where we are all logical and perfect" idea either. There are a lot of carnal, base, primitive things I enjoy.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 06, 2015, 01:34:27 PM
I think civilizations either hit the singularity or they destroy themselves before hand. Before the singularity the civilizations can appear very different from each other with very different technologies, but once they hit superintelligence they all become very similar with similar technological capabilities. The reason for this is that while aliens may be different from us, a computer is a computer no matter where you go, it works on universal mathematics and logic and once you have a computer that's smarter than you are then that computer will arrive at the same conclusions as a similar computer would halfway across the galaxy. Biological species are going to be different form each other,  but computers are not. Because of that I think we all end up the same in the end.

I'm not so sure. Why wouldn't these computers develop culture?
I don't know how far you could go if you were merely a super hot calculator.
The computers would essentially have to make value judgements -- they'd have to have some reason to decide that exploring the universe is a good thing, or a desirable thing.
They'd need to have some reason to work together, perhaps beyond just the beenfit of having more computational power as a cloud.

The thing is, it seems to me, the smarter you get, the more weird surreal eccentric things you are more likely to begin to do.

Quote from: SciFiAuthor on July 05, 2015, 10:57:13 PM
Yup, this why I don't buy his theories (well, among many reasons why I don't buy his theories). He's badly outdated in his futurism. The advanced alien cultures he envisions are like 1950's sci fi movies. They are nothing like what modern futurists envision.

While I have a lot of sympathy for what you are saying. Ultimately alien technology will develop along different paths, and we assume the fundamental laws of physics are universal.

There are lots of people who think building an Apollo style programme is a step backwards.
But the laws of physics haven't changed since 1969. If you want to go beyond low earth orbit, with the technologies available to us out in the open, then a Saturn V or one on steroids is what you need to do the job.

You can speculate that aliens will have force fields, but we don't know if those are practical over other dumber technologies.

For instance, the wheel is a pretty ancient piece of technology, but I use it everyday

Quote from: Paper*Boy on July 06, 2015, 06:23:48 AM
Or bored to death accidently picking up Coast to Coast Starring George Noory on their radios

If they picked up George Noory I think they'd quickly conclude there was no intelligent life on the planet and try again in 30,000 years.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on July 03, 2015, 11:44:52 AM
Although I'm prepared to accept that it's highly unlikely we're the only life in the universe; that in itself begs the question: Why would a vastly more technologically advanced race travel to populate a grey satillite of a planet billions of miles away?

Its possible that life exists on Mars or on the moons of Jupiter/Saturn

And so we sterlize our landers and we've deliberately crashed orbiters into Jupiter to
make sure we never run the risk of contaminating these places.

So if we found a planet with life on it, I can easily imagine an argument where phase 1 of
exploration is to set up a manned base on one of its satellites.
Science tends to do things in gradual steps.

From Earth's moon you could make extremely good observations, and wouldn't have to worry about a local atmosphere getting in your way.

Also you could easily identify areas of interest and send sterlized sample return probes,
and get the samples back extremely quickly -- days, if not hours.

You could pretty much control rovers in real time, with about a 1 second delay.

So essentially you'd learn all about the life forms on earth and how best to minimize your impact and survive.

That makes more sense to me then sending a bunch of astronauts down first thing, only for them all to be eaten by a T. Rex three minutes into their mission, or stomped on by a Brontosaurus before they even got out of the landing craft.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on July 05, 2015, 01:06:57 PM
Horizon spacecraft has suffered a computer glitch a few days from Pluto; What's the betting RCH will mention that NASA is covering up they've been warned off Pluto by the signal from an ancient space ship that is drifting in orbit on the 19.5 parallel around Pluto?

My guess is he will say that the "missing hour" is when the "secret" NASA uploaded their real commands to New Horizons.

They've made a big deal, in every news story, how July 4th was the LAST POSSIBLE MOMENT they could re-direct New Horizons if they had to.

So Hoagland will say that the secret NASA waited until the last possible moment to give the space craft it's "real" instructions.

This is absolutely wonderful for a conspiracy theorist because it allows you to keep the good boys and girls in mission control as innocent dupes.

You could say that the reason you'd wait until the last possible moment was so the faithful in mission control wouldn't stumble into your secret commands by accident.

So essentially let the public face, duped, people in NASA fly your space craft most the way there and keep the whole mission clean until you needed to do your dirty work.

And the plan really comes together with the day or two of "lost science time".

The good guys & girls at NASA are spending a day or two trying to uncover the cause of the "fault".

So during that time they are so busy trying to track down the fake fault, they don't expect science data to be coming in at all. 

But the secret dark NASA has one or two days to confirm aspects of the hyperdimensional model.


At least, that theory seems consistent with my reading of Hoagland over the years.

But no doubt he'll imagine something ten times crazier than I could manage even when I'm trying.

thor=Juan a link=topic=340.msg417159#msg417159 date=1435934940]
Which is why I brought up the subject of artificial gravity.

Since we're talking about (at least) a Type II civilization, which as the theory goes can harness all the power of its (or presumably anybody's) solar system, the ability to create a massive force field shouldn't be a problem.

Recall that the original question supposed an alien civilization with the ability to terraform planets and/or their satellites. This would require a civilization able to harness huge amounts of energies.
[/quote]

Human beings can build Supersonic aircraft. So why do they build Cessnas?

In fact they build lots and lots of Cessnas, and since Concorde got axed, no commercial Supersonic aircraft at all.

So you know maybe it takes decades or centuries to terraform something like the moon. Or maybe the Moon has some properties they would rather use to their advantage than change. Or maybe there is some intergalactic law that you can't terraform natural satellites of planets that host life, without permission.

Maybe aliens would look at a situation and think "we can lower down our standard glass dome module and be working on the moon in an hour."

I don't know how artificial gravity and forcefields work, I am sure loads of alien civilisations, hell black projects here on earth probably know lots on these topics. But maybe those aren't the go to technologies. Maybe a cheap Cessna would work better than super sonic jet liners. Or maybe the aliens would read us talking about forcefields and artificial gravity and be laughing at how primitive those ideas are

Quote from: Juan Cena on July 02, 2015, 08:25:17 PM

I already had my fun with RCH in the Dark Matter days when I called in and asked him why a Type 2 alien civilization would build a glass dome on the moon instead of just terraforming it and giving it an artificial atmosphere.


He tried to weasel out of that one with some claims about the Moon's gravity not being able to maintain an atmosphere, but I just asked then why didn't the aliens give the moon artificial gravity. He has to just resort to BS after that.


Heck, why build a glass dome if you could produce a force field, for that matter? Maybe ExPat could answer that one for me.

The moon doesn't have enough gravity to hold onto an atmosphere forever. It would escape over time.   Such as what happened with Mars.

Now I don't believe there are glass domes on the Moon.
But to kick the ball around on your question --

I don't know how much energy it would take to initiate and maintain a forcefield, but its probably well in excess of what you'd need to build a glass dome.

Also, the forcefield would probably consume energy continuously, so any interruption of power supply would be really bad, even for just a fraction of a second.
Your habitat would disappear and depressurize immediately.

Quote from: Jackstar on June 19, 2015, 01:29:19 PM
This is indeed big news.

What gets me is they are actually, again and again, calling it a "pyramid"

Surely, someone at NASA is laughing their guts out, and imagining Richard C Hoagland locked up in a room with an image editing program, and writing foam in the mouth notes about "rectanglinear hyperdimensional geometry"

Quote from: VoteQuimby on June 25, 2015, 03:00:56 PM
Not sure if I'm the first to bring this up in this thread. But it was mentioned by Falkie in another thread on here that Hoagland doesn't have any accredited educational facilities on his record either as a graduate or some sort of scientist?

It is spectacular if this guy managed to bluff his was onto CBS' science team with no college degree or any sort of legitimate science background.

I've been searching online and can't find any sort of real educational institution in his resume. His resume is absolutely hilarious by the way. He mentions a bunch of big sounding institutions that he was a big deal at, then you search them and they turn into Children's Museums and small town tourist traps.

This man has to be applauded if he's made a 50+ year career of being a con artist in such an intellectual field. Granted he's a special kind of mental ill but this actually makes me respect Hoagland a lot more than I did.

I don't know how swayed to be by credentials. I always keep an open mind.

I can think of two people I've met in my life who bring this home.

I once knew this guy and he lived and breathed Ford automobiles.
You could show him any part off any Ford car, and he could give you a detailed breakdown of that part and tell you what models would be compatible with it.

For a hobby he re-built them and re-conditioned them. He had some amazing roadsters he'd repaired and maintained.

Thing is, he never worked for Ford. He did try to get a job with Ford building cars, but he couldn't pass the job interview process.

And another example that I can think of is a friend of mine who was brought up around computers. His dad used to run a BBS off a C64, and he was taught to program in BASIC when he was four. When we were in our early teens he helped me Sysop a BBS off an 8086. And we had a BBS run off a single 3.5" floppy, and used to get people logging in just to see it work.

Anyway, that guy understood more about how computers actually worked than anyone else I've ever met. He used to build his own computers as a hobby. Through just hanging out with him I got a pretty good grounding. Thanks to him I went off and got the right credentials, got an IT job, and I went off to work for Oxford University in their IT department. 

Him?  He dropped out of high school one month before graduation. He moved to Colorado and started working at some factory putting CD-Rs into boxes.

Thing is -- on paper,  I'm a computer specialist for Oxford University, and he's the high school drop out.

But trust me, if you want to understand something about computers -- talk to that guy.
He forgot more by age 14 than I ever learnt to do my job.

I want to step in in defense of Lionel Fanthrope

George is entirely to blame with his ridiculous "greatest story teller ever born" non sense and forcing Lionel to go over the same three damn stories again and again.

Lionel isn't some guy who can only tell the story of spring heel jack - regardless of the impression George Noory gives.

Lionel has had a weird career and weird life, and in the hands of a vaguely competent interviewer you could get endless engaging material from him

Its a bit like George Noory invites Michio Kaku and calls him the world's greatest Elvis impersonator, and never ever lets him talk about physics but keeps asking him to sing You Ain't Nothing but A Hound Dog. Again. And again.

It's roughly that stupid