Art Bell

[BellBoy]

I hate it when Canadians fight.

...while I've always found it to be completely hilarious!

[SciFiAuthor]

No it isn't true. You are not capable of sending white light, to any location. I didn't fling anymore mud than the poster suggesting a skeptical view is boring.

Every religion is wrong or at least making statements that are unverifiable. If one chooses to be kind, that is wonderful. To believe that gives extraordinary powers is silly.

I have done a great deal of research regarding metaphysical concepts for more than four decades, it all leads to wishful thinking. Statistics is boring but explains data much more thoroughly than anecdotal evidence. Are there fascinating stories? yes, but with little to no real evidence. And as much as I would wish to not offend many people on this forum, many of the positions they hold are little more than whimsy, your belief in astrology being the biggest joke among them.

*Gets out Onan voodoo doll and stabs it* . . . . *twist*

That'll learn ya.

[Chronaut]

@ Onan

Every religion is wrong or at least making statements that are unverifiable.

You must’ve meant “unprovable,” because quite a number of mystical experiences are indeed personally verifiable.  Art’s out of body experience in Paris comes to mind.  But like the question raised in Contact regarding the existence of love, no subjective experience can be empirically proven…and that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily false.  For example, many of the Buddhist traditions document long lineages of mystics experiencing satori, and only those mystics are permitted to convey the knowledge of that experience to subsequent generations.

I have done a great deal of research regarding metaphysical concepts for more than four decades, it all leads to wishful thinking.

It would seem that you spent four decades reading the wrong books â€" please take no offense, there’s so much rubbish out there that it’s very difficult to find authentic books on the subject.  Perhaps you’d feel differently if you read this:  The Flame of Attention

I think it’s also important to bear in mind that metaphysics isn’t a spectator sport.  It’s a subjective experimental science, analogous to the objective experimental sciences that have proven to be invaluable for technological progress.  The only crucial difference between them is that with metaphysics, your own consciousness is the subject of your experimentation.  And properly and rigorous conducted, your experiments can produce staggering and wholly unexpected new insights.  The bummer is that your own experiences are your only proof, and those aren't transmissible.

It is interesting to imagine that perhaps, one day, more people will become psychonauts, trying out some of the ancient metaphysical experiments and validating them for themselves.  Because then we could have some fascinating discussions on the subject.

But until that happens, the lone metaphysicians of the world are in the unenviable position of a color-sighted person living amid the color-blind:  you know what you’ve seen, and the beauty and power of what you’ve seen is a living inspiration within you, but whenever you try to talk about it all you get are glassy-eyed stares at best, and horrendous accusations of madness or fraud at worst.  Even so, it’s always better to know than not know.

[littlechris]

Art, let us all know where you found the fountain of youth!  I recall right before the show premiered in July, you were mentioning your age and expectations being too high. well, you may be 70, but you are as good as ever!  Noory thought you were winding down?  Hahahaha!

I agree. Art, do you and Airyn plan on having any more kids? I'm sure Asia would love a brother or sister.

Best Regards.

-

[Freyja]

I agree that it is a classic, and myself being a paid member think it should stay off of youtube... that being said however, it would be good for promotion! Maybe it would get more people subscribing (the more he gets, the more able to stay in biz, and I really don't want him to leave again!!!! )    Maybe as a commercial, he could take some "spots" out of some of his new shows to make commercials etc.... (Jaz?)

I am a subscriber as well and I have no problem with Art/Keith offering some full programs for free.

We long time hard core listeners know what "wanna take a ride" is all about. There are so many who do not.

With the plethora of podcasts out there today, many of which are free, the lack of MITD spanning hundreds of free radio stations where new listeners can stumble upon the program like many of us did way back...think damn, I want to hear this but I can't be awake every night especially on the east coast where there is a HUGE market or I only heard a part of this show and I want to hear it ALL.

We need to think about ways that Art and MITD can get out there to get as many new listeners hooked....especially those who don't even know who Art Bell is.

Like you, I want nothing more than to hear Art for many years to come, as long as he wants to do this and as long as he is having fun doing it.

My suggestion is offer a few shows for free....as an appetizer.

Art, do you have a YouTube channel or does Keith have a DMDN channel where you can promote the show?

Think about the # of shares you can get worldwide for the "followers" you may have on that social media..FB/Twitter for offering a classic show gratis once in a while. . I suggest this, however I hate FB and use it less than minimally, however that is where the media pulse seems to be these days.

Getting more subscribers and listeners just may be key in doing this....hence my suggestion.     

[aldousburbank]

I think it’s also important to bear in mind that metaphysics isn’t a spectator sport.  It’s a subjective experimental science, analogous to the objective experimental sciences that have proven to be invaluable for technological progress.  The only crucial difference between them is that with metaphysics, your own consciousness is the subject of your experimentation.  And properly and rigorous conducted, your experiments can produce staggering and wholly unexpected new insights.  The bummer is that your own experiences are your only proof, and those aren't transmissible.

True dat. Not having an understanding of the inner/subjective nature of the mystic tends to color one's personal experience with the objective myopia of misunderstanding. This can really harsh your mellow at best, and/or get you crucified. (Pro Tip- Avoid trying this at home. The nails hurt.) The key to having your cake and eating it too is not advertising free cake, or boasting that yours is the best cake, but be ready to share your recipe. Believe me, if it is worth a crap, you won't have to tell anybody how good it is, they'll smell it in your oven, but you can't live on cake alone and you can't feed everybody. It's a bake your own at home deal. Damn I'm hungry. What were we talking about?

[onan]

@ OnanYou must’ve meant “unprovable,” because quite a number of mystical experiences are indeed personally verifiable.  Art’s out of body experience in Paris comes to mind.  But like the question raised in Contact regarding the existence of love, no subjective experience can be empirically proven…and that doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily false.  For example, many of the Buddhist traditions document long lineages of mystics experiencing satori, and only those mystics are permitted to convey the knowledge of that experience to subsequent generations.
It would seem that you spent four decades reading the wrong books â€" please take no offense, there’s so much rubbish out there that it’s very difficult to find authentic books on the subject.  Perhaps you’d feel differently if you read this:  The Flame of Attention

I think it’s also important to bear in mind that metaphysics isn’t a spectator sport.  It’s a subjective experimental science, analogous to the objective experimental sciences that have proven to be invaluable for technological progress.  The only crucial difference between them is that with metaphysics, your own consciousness is the subject of your experimentation.  And properly and rigorous conducted, your experiments can produce staggering and wholly unexpected new insights.  The bummer is that your own experiences are your only proof, and those aren't transmissible.

It is interesting to imagine that perhaps, one day, more people will become psychonauts, trying out some of the ancient metaphysical experiments and validating them for themselves.  Because then we could have some fascinating discussions on the subject.

But until that happens, the lone metaphysicians of the world are in the unenviable position of a color-sighted person living amid the color-blind:  you know what you’ve seen, and the beauty and power of what you’ve seen is a living inspiration within you, but whenever you try to talk about it all you get are glassy-eyed stares at best, and horrendous accusations of madness or fraud at worst.  Even so, it’s always better to know than not know.

I meant unverifiable, but unprovable is valid as well.

Love is to some extent quantifiable because behaviors are observable. Taking a journey in your mind isn't. Add to that, there is no scrutiny and if one isn't skeptical...

If your proof isn't transmissable, how do you differentiate between your experience and that of delusion? If your bench mark is: I'm noble because I'm noble in thought, well good, but so what?

You ask me to take no offence, ok none taken. But your statements, even being all pleasant, have little else to say. 

About Art Bell and his OBE in France, to me, it was some variation of dream scintillation. His story is an anecdote and entertaining but I am not betting it is any more real than my dream the other night. I woke believing it was real as well, but it wasn't.

Everyone is a lonely hunter. It is the human experience. It is a paradox that does lend well to common internal experiences. The statement "That which is most personal is most general" written by Carl Rogers is prescient to this discussion. But it does not allude to a literal spiritual connection. It does explain in simple terms that we are all in this together.

My biggest complaint with the spiritual bunch is simply this: if one is not attaining some kind of spiritual betterment then one is doing something wrong. Oh and the snake oil thing. 

[onan]

*Gets out Onan voodoo doll and stabs it* . . . . *twist*

That'll learn ya.

I should never have sold that thing to you.

[K_Dubb]

I saw an interesting documentary a few weeks ago that tried to show how some of the earliest cave paintings in Europe--not the famous ones with the aurochs and bison but close to there--that consisted of abstract patterns were attempts to reproduce visually what the human eye sees in the total darkness.  Patterns of bars and spots of color.  As just about the earliest non-representational art, the theory was that ancient people ascribed some significance to these we might call spiritual.  So the roots of spirituality may simply lie in whether you see dreams and non-literal visions produced naturally as significant.

I've long ago come to terms with the reality that nobody I know will ever hear certain music I like the same way I do.  I think it's kind of like that.  You're either sensitive to it or you're not.

[zeebo]

...If your proof isn't transmissable, how do you differentiate between your experience and that of delusion? If your bench mark is: I'm noble because I'm noble in thought, well good, but so what?...

If you taste a glass of wine, and it's delicious, but no one agrees with you, was it delusion?  Or is it something you know as your own truth?

[K_Dubb]

If you taste a glass of wine, and it's delicious, but no one agrees with you, was it delusion?  Or is it something you know as your own truth?

Well it's your own truth, clearly.  But vast swathes of ever-suggestible humanity are waiting to be convinced that it's the best wine in the world if you market it just right.  That's where delusion comes in.

[FightTheFuture]

I hate it when Canadians fight.

[onan]

If you taste a glass of wine, and it's delicious, but no one agrees with you, was it delusion?  Or is it something you know as your own truth?

You both agree it has a taste. If you said your wine sounded different it would most likely be some dysfunction in perception.

[onan]

I saw an interesting documentary a few weeks ago that tried to show how some of the earliest cave paintings in Europe--not the famous ones with the aurochs and bison but close to there--that consisted of abstract patterns were attempts to reproduce visually what the human eye sees in the total darkness.  Patterns of bars and spots of color.  As just about the earliest non-representational art, the theory was that ancient people ascribed some significance to these we might call spiritual.  So the roots of spirituality may simply lie in whether you see dreams and non-literal visions produced naturally as significant.

I've long ago come to terms with the reality that nobody I know will ever hear certain music I like the same way I do.  I think it's kind of like that.  You're either sensitive to it or you're not.

There is quite a bit of discussion regarding schizophrenia and dreaming breaking into conscious thought. As to whether a group of prehistoric people all had that dysfunction, probably not, unless they ingested some variation of a hallucinogenic.

[zeebo]

You both agree it has a taste. If you said your wine sounded different it would most likely be some dysfunction in perception.

Admittedly this is a strained metaphor ... but my point is that just because you can't objectively prove to someone else it's good, that doesn't mean you're personal experience isn't real. 

There are facts which can be externally proved, but inner truth can only be verified by others who've perhaps shared a similar inner experience, but this doesn't mean they are necessarily illusion.

Ok and now my brain hurts, so done with philosophy for the day.  Gonna go crack some wine.

[ItsOver]

Noory sucks.  I'm pretty sure that's no delusion.

[RoseGirl]

I meant unverifiable, but unprovable is valid as well.

Love is to some extent quantifiable because behaviors are observable. Taking a journey in your mind isn't. Add to that, there is no scrutiny and if one isn't skeptical...

If your proof isn't transmissable, how do you differentiate between your experience and that of delusion? If your bench mark is: I'm noble because I'm noble in thought, well good, but so what?

You ask me to take no offence, ok none taken. But your statements, even being all pleasant, have little else to say. 

About Art Bell and his OBE in France, to me, it was some variation of dream scintillation. His story is an anecdote and entertaining but I am not betting it is any more real than my dream the other night. I woke believing it was real as well, but it wasn't.

Everyone is a lonely hunter. It is the human experience. It is a paradox that does lend well to common internal experiences. The statement "That which is most personal is most general" written by Carl Rogers is prescient to this discussion. But it does not allude to a literal spiritual connection. It does explain in simple terms that we are all in this together.

My biggest complaint with the spiritual bunch is simply this: if one is not attaining some kind of spiritual betterment then one is doing something wrong. Oh and the snake oil thing.

Onan...you own me an apology. No joke.

[K_Dubb]

There is quite a bit of discussion regarding schizophrenia and dreaming breaking into conscious thought. As to whether a group of prehistoric people all had that dysfunction, probably not, unless they ingested some variation of a hallucinogenic.

Haha yeah that was one of the possibilities raised in the documentary.  Divination, which I take to mean deriving meaning from some reproducible phenomenon with any random component (dice, dropping pebbles in a cup mark carved in a rock, splattering guts of small animals) occupied a lot of early man's time; taking something in a cave and then painting how many dots you counted might just be a variation on that theme.

[littlechris]

Onan...you own me an apology. No joke.

^^This is so unlike RoseGirl.  I think Nancy Senda Birnes hacked into RoseGirl's account.

[wr250]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FIMvSp01C8

[Eddie Coyle]

As to whether a group of prehistoric people all had that dysfunction, probably not, unless they ingested some variation of a hallucinogenic.

  I'm descended from people who put ergot in their every meal.

[K_Dubb]

  I'm descended from people who put ergot in their every meal.

Really?  My great-great-grandfather was a Coyle; I think it's a rye fungus with hallucinogenic properties or something; was it used deliberately?

[RoseGirl]

^^This is so unlike RoseGirl.  I think Nancy Senda Birnes hacked into RoseGirl's account.

Nope...not really. I figure anytime someone calls your life and your livelihood a joke, they need to apologize.

I think I have given it long enough....onan goes on ignore.

[999]

KVOT on the TuneIn App has 5 hours of Somewhere In Time?
http://tunein.com/radio/KVOT-1340-s46986/

[deadmeow]

Everything is objective and subjective.  However, some things are more objective, and some things are more subjective.  If you can have an opinion about something, it is subjective, no matter how objective it may be.

The total skeptic says nothing is real, everything is illusion or hallucination, and do not even think that they themselves are real.  The positive person knows everything comes from the source that is love, and each of us are creations of love.

You will find that the more negative people are, the more they doubt deeper reality.  Those who love more, are looking deeper for more reality. 

There is infinity in love and love in infinity.  The universe, and knowledge, individuals, experiences, each person and their life, are infinite.  Once you realize this, you will gain much more inner strength, even if you cannot buy a can of beans.

[coaster]

Onan...you own me an apology. No joke.

Because his opinion differs from your far flung bullshit? Ok then...

[UnscreenedCaller]

KVOT on the TuneIn App has 5 hours of Somewhere In Time?
http://tunein.com/radio/KVOT-1340-s46986/

Thanks for the heads up, 999. 

[Lilith]

I think I heard RoseGirl say something once about science 'knowing nothing', and there are deeper truths that can't be appreciated by rational thinking. The trouble is, when you do that you throw yourself open to every charlatan and crackpot out there. Rationality is all we have as a species and it drives me bloody nuts when I hear people talking about 'magic' as though it is something real, when all the 'evidence' is just the unreliable testimony of a bunch of credulous peasants several centuries or millennia ago.

All the beliefs in magic are rooted in our need to control the natural environment in an era of general ignorance, and religion grows out of that. It wouldn't take much to get the reputation for being a shaman in a primitive culture if you were clever and/or unscrupulous enough - and then everyone starts to believe in magic and you are off with your own little cult. Just reading a few pages of The Golden Bough should convince most people of that pretty simple truth.

Just doing some catching up here.  I like this post.  I DO however believe in magic, but I think its misrepresented. (And yes, exploited by charlatans throughout the centuries)   Magic is rooted in our realization that we need to learn to control our own consciousness, NOT the external environment, and coming to another difficult realization: that ignorance is within. Magic is the work we do on working to improve OURSELVES internally, not anyone, or anything else.   Just my 2 cents, just IMO, for what its worth.  OK,  I'm outta here, carry on! 

[Catsmile]

Everything is objective and subjective.  However, some things are more objective, and some things are more subjective.  If you can have an opinion about something, it is subjective, no matter how objective it may be.

The total skeptic says nothing is real, everything is illusion or hallucination, and do not even think that they themselves are real.  The positive person knows everything comes from the source that is love, and each of us are creations of love.

You will find that the more negative people are, the more they doubt deeper reality.  Those who love more, are looking deeper for more reality. 

There is infinity in love and love in infinity.  The universe, and knowledge, individuals, experiences, each person and their life, are infinite.  Once you realize this, you will gain much more inner strength, even if you cannot buy a can of beans.

"Paranoia is just a kind of awareness, and awareness is just a form of love."

                 

:

[starrmtn001]

I've long ago come to terms with the reality that nobody I know will ever hear certain music I like the same way I do.  I think it's kind of like that.  You're either sensitive to it or you're not.

That is the perfect metaphor K_Dubb.  The essence of music is imbued in life from the microcosmic to the macro cosmic levels.  Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.