VIVE Le QUEBEC LIBRE

[SciFiAuthor]

Oh and I should note that Turkey refuses to acknowledge or own up to their ethnic Armenian genocide. When the US Congress recognized it, it caused a diplomatic row. Now, if you won't own up to your own history, like we do with slaughtering the American Indian, then you've got a bit of a systemic problem in your culture.

That's not even broaching the topic of the burning of Smyrna and how that's seen culturally in Turkey.

[DanTSX]

Which troll friendly hotel did you stay at when you last never went to Turkey?

I backpacked through Macedonia, Greece, and turkey.  Turkey has the best parties and the tightest pussies.

[DanTSX]

Oh and I should note that Turkey refuses to acknowledge or own up to their ethnic Armenian genocide. When the US Congress recognized it, it caused a diplomatic row. Now, if you won't own up to your own history, like we do with slaughtering the American Indian, then you've got a bit of a systemic problem in your culture.

That's not even broaching the topic of the burning of Smyrna and how that's seen culturally in Turkey.

Oh well

Nobody is perfect

[Yorkshire pud]

Oh and I should note that Turkey refuses to acknowledge or own up to their ethnic Armenian genocide. When the US Congress recognized it, it caused a diplomatic row. Now, if you won't own up to your own history, like we do with slaughtering the American Indian, then you've got a bit of a systemic problem in your culture.

That's not even broaching the topic of the burning of Smyrna and how that's seen culturally in Turkey.

Interesting you brought up Japan previously.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25518166

[DanTSX]

Go fuck yourself attention whore. That said, Merry Christmas.

It's actually Boxing Day.  In Quebec too

[DanTSX]

Mmm, you're just naïve. That's forgivable.

Germany has shown no inkling of a return to fascism. It appears to be entirely dead within their culture, perhaps more than anywhere else in that they really seem to go out of their way to stamp it out. Same with Japan, where are the imperial aspirations? I don't see them.

Turkey on the other hand seems to be going increasingly Islamist, and Islamism is not something you can dismiss out of political correctness. It's a problem. It wants to be a problem. It screams from the top of its lungs on the pulpits of extremist clerics that it intends to be a problem for the west. That is its modus operandi. Sure, there are plenty of moderates within Islam, and more willing to live peacefully than not, but when someone within an ideology says they want you dead or defeated, you really shouldn't ignore it. You're a fucking fool if you do, that's how the world missed the rise of Adolph Hitler. We should not ignore Turkey's shift towards Islamism.

I'm absolutely willing to defend it. It's the truth, and it's nothing new. From Pope Benedict XVI's opposition to Turkey joining the EU to a great many of the EU's politicians, the thinking is that you do not EVER, under any circumstances, flirt with a dangerous ideology. Turkey is flirting with dangerous ideology as we speak. Don't believe me? Go to Ankara and get up on a soapbox and speak pro-Israel. You'll quickly see the problem.

Turkey is a great ally to both us and Israel

Go watch the Star Trek where they save the whales or something

[SciFiAuthor]

I backpacked through Macedonia, Greece, and turkey.  Turkey has the best parties and the tightest pussies.

You're so full of shit. Parties in Turkey. Yeah that really compares to Amsterdam. Pussy, maybe, but it's also almost impossible to get a casual lay as compared to say, Asia or South America. You can't have missed Greek sentiment towards the Turks either, and vice versa.

I flat out don't believe you.

[tertiaryimam]

Mmm, you're just naïve. That's forgivable.

Germany has shown no inkling of a return to fascism. It appears to be entirely dead within their culture, perhaps more than anywhere else in that they really seem to go out of their way to stamp it out. Same with Japan, where are the imperial aspirations? I don't see them.

Turkey on the other hand seems to be going increasingly Islamist, and Islamism is not something you can dismiss out of political correctness. It's a problem. It wants to be a problem. It screams from the top of its lungs on the pulpits of extremist clerics that it intends to be a problem for the west. That is its modus operandi. Sure, there are plenty of moderates within Islam, and more willing to live peacefully than not, but when someone within an ideology says they want you dead or defeated, you really shouldn't ignore it. You're a fucking fool if you do, that's how the world missed the rise of Adolph Hitler. We should not ignore Turkey's shift towards Islamism.

I'm absolutely willing to defend it. It's the truth, and it's nothing new. From Pope Benedict XVI's opposition to Turkey joining the EU to a great many of the EU's politicians, the thinking is that you do not EVER, under any circumstances, flirt with a dangerous ideology. Turkey is flirting with dangerous ideology as we speak. Don't believe me? Go to Ankara and get up on a soapbox and speak pro-Israel. You'll quickly see the problem.

All this is a bunch of subjective twaddle. Define "Islamism" as you mean the term, then cite the policy changes the Turkish government has implemented which fit the definition of this term.

[SciFiAuthor]

Turkey is a great ally to both us and Israel

Go watch the Star Trek where they save the whales or something

Turkey is no ally towards Israel and they'd stone you in any Turkish city for suggesting it. Not a whale saver. There is no finer machine lubricant than whale oil. Breed them son's of bitches and let's get an industry going.

[DanTSX]

You're so full of shit. Parties in Turkey. Yeah that really compares to Amsterdam. Pussy, maybe, but it's also almost impossible to get a casual lay as compared to say, Asia or South America. You can't have missed Greek sentiment towards the Turks either, and vice versa.

I flat out don't believe you.

That's ok.

[Yorkshire pud]

You're so full of shit. Parties in Turkey. Yeah that really compares to Amsterdam. Pussy, maybe, but it's also almost impossible to get a casual lay as compared to say, Asia or South America. You can't have missed Greek sentiment towards the Turks either, and vice versa.

I flat out don't believe you.

Cynic! Dan thinks it's true; in his mind all his lays had a pulse.

[tertiaryimam]

Oh and I should note that Turkey refuses to acknowledge or own up to their ethnic Armenian genocide. When the US Congress recognized it, it caused a diplomatic row. Now, if you won't own up to your own history, like we do with slaughtering the American Indian, then you've got a bit of a systemic problem in your culture.

That's not even broaching the topic of the burning of Smyrna and how that's seen culturally in Turkey.

So would you let Turkey in the EU if they throw out their current government and apologize for their genocides?

[Yorkshire pud]

So would you let Turkey in the EU if they throw out their current government and apologize for their genocides?

I think it unlikely that Turkey will be allowed to join the EU. Although they're (at the moment) useful to the west, the EU is a different matter, and it is to do with it's current human rights record. Misogyny an everyday thing when it comes to equality, jailing journalists etc. Oh, and the rest of the EU would be propping them up for ever..they don't need or want another Greece.

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-turkeys-eu-membership/

[DanTSX]

I think it unlikely that Turkey will be allowed to join the EU. Although they're (at the moment) useful to the west, the EU is a different matter, and it is to do with it's current human rights record. Misogyny an everyday thing when it comes to equality, jailing journalists etc. Oh, and the rest of the EU would be propping them up for ever..they don't need or want another Greece.

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-turkeys-eu-membership/

Racists

[SciFiAuthor]

Interesting you brought up Japan previously.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25518166

The proof is in the actions. While the Japanese--perhaps disturbingly--do maintain a gigantic navy in the same sense as Germany's pocket battleships of the 30's, they haven't exhibited anything particularly aggressive in a diplomatic sense in decades to anyone other than North Korea and China. I can understand why they would do that. Now, if they give the finger to Washington or Moscow, I would be concerned.

But yes, I am aware that they do tend to ignore their historical actions in WWII. But they're going to have show policy or major social action towards aggressive expansionism for me to be too concerned. We all have vestiges of old-style nationalism--we have a nuclear bombing of Hiroshima museum--but that doesn't mean we're at the starting gate to nuke anyone.

[SciFiAuthor]

So would you let Turkey in the EU if they throw out their current government and apologize for their genocides?

I'm in the US, not an EU country, but yes that would be a start. They'd also need to prove that they're not just out to get a subsidy from Germany like half of the rest of the EU.

[tertiaryimam]

I think it unlikely that Turkey will be allowed to join the EU. Although they're (at the moment) useful to the west, the EU is a different matter, and it is to do with it's current human rights record. Misogyny an everyday thing when it comes to equality, jailing journalists etc. Oh, and the rest of the EU would be propping them up for ever..they don't need or want another Greece.

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-turkeys-eu-membership/

I don't give a shit if they join the EU or not and have zero opinion on the issue. I just want to know to what extent Turkey would need to change for SciFiAuthor to view their entry into the EU as a blessing rather than a curse.

And please, SciFiAuthor, feel no obligation to reply to this little exchange between me and Yorkshire Pud. I'd much rather you explain if you'd let them in if they a) throw out the AKP and b) apologize for their numerous genocides.

[tertiaryimam]

I'm in the US, not an EU country, but yes that would be a start. They'd also need to prove that they're not just out to get a subsidy from Germany like half of the rest of the EU.

I don't give a shit where you are, I'm asking your opinion.

So if I understand you right, so long as the AKP is not in power and Turkey makes a legitimate acknowledge of their role in their genocides, you'd consider them as a candidate for EU membership? Or is it just "a start"?

If it is just a start, what else would they need to do?

[SciFiAuthor]

Cynic! Dan thinks it's true; in his mind all his lays had a pulse.

Don't be mean! It had a pulse. One's own hand always does.

[Yorkshire pud]

Racists

You really don't have a clue do you? I thought you were pretending to be stupid.

[SciFiAuthor]

I don't give a shit if they join the EU or not and have zero opinion on the issue. I just want to know to what extent Turkey would need to change for SciFiAuthor to view their entry into the EU as a blessing rather than a curse.

And please, SciFiAuthor, feel no obligation to reply to this little exchange between me and Yorkshire Pud. I'd much rather you explain if you'd let them in if they a) throw out the AKP and b) apologize for their numerous genocides.

I would say repealing their morality laws would be a good start.

[tertiaryimam]

I would say repealing their morality laws would be a good start.

It's real tempting to make a slippery Dolphin joke, but I'll refrain, just like I refrained from bringing up strange Japanese sexual fetishes.

But you aren't really answering my question.

[SciFiAuthor]

It's real tempting to make a slippery Dolphin joke, but I'll refrain, just like I refrained from bringing up strange Japanese sexual fetishes.

But you aren't really answering my question.

Hell yes I answered it. If I were an EU resident, I'd say prove that you don't want to send a bunch of migrant workers over to the detriment of existent members. Prove that you don't want money from Germany like half of the rest of the EU. And prove that you're a modern thinking society compatible with Europe.

Turkey cannot do any of those at the moment.

[Yorkshire pud]

Turkey cannot do any of those at the moment.

In a nutshell.

[tertiaryimam]

Hell yes I answered it. If I were an EU resident, I'd say prove that you don't want to send a bunch of migrant workers over to the detriment of existent members. Prove that you don't want money from Germany like half of the rest of the EU. And prove that you're a modern thinking society compatible with Europe.

Turkey cannot do any of those at the moment.

How would Turkey prove that they're a modern thinking society compatible with Europe? What would constitute "proof" of that?

Oh, and just to reiterate:

Please define "Islamism" as you mean the term, then cite the policy changes the Turkish government has implemented which fit the definition of this term.

[tertiaryimam]

I would say repealing their morality laws would be a good start.

What are the morality laws you want repealed?

And please don't bring up honor killings or some raghead dad killing his emo son. I want laws that are on the books.

[Yorkshire pud]

What are the morality laws you want repealed?

And please don't bring up honor killings or some raghead dad killing his emo son. I want laws that are on the books.

As far as I'm aware, it's illegal to kiss in public. This link is quite comprehensive in why Turkey will probably not join the EU anytime soon...here's one passage.

Quotes on free opinion in Turkey[edit]
Amnesty International: "Human rights defenders, writers, journalists and others were unjustly prosecuted under unfair laws and subjected to arbitrary decisions by judges and prosecutors. Courts also acted disproportionately when shutting down websites on the basis of posted items. People expressing dissenting views remained at risk, with individuals threatened with violence by unknown individuals or groups. Police bodyguards were provided in a number of cases."[74]
Human Rights Watch: "Critical and open debate increased, even as restrictions on free speech continue."[75]
US Department of State: The government limited freedom of expression through the use of constitutional restrictions and numerous laws, including articles of the penal code prohibiting insults to the government, the state, the "Turkish nation," or the institution and symbols of the republic. Limitations on freedom of expression applied to the Internet, and courts and an independent board ordered telecommunications providers to block access to Web sites on approximately 1,475 occasions.[76]
European Union: "There has been some progress in the efforts to strengthen the safeguards for freedom of expression, which is a priority of the Accession Partnership. However, only a consistent track record of implementation will show whether or not the revised article is adequate."[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Turkey

[DanTSX]

You really don't have a clue do you? I thought you were pretending to be stupid.

Ok so white Europe ok.  Romanian and Turks not ok.

Dats rayciss

[DanTSX]

I would say repealing their morality laws would be a good start.

Why?  England had defacto sharia law coexisting.

Why not turkey?

[Yorkshire pud]

Ok so white Europe ok.  Romanian and Turks not ok.

Dats rayciss

So how do you explain that Germany has had Turkish migrants for many many years? Oh hang on...