Shooting In San Bernnardino

[frankietoronto]

Good little sheeple ye be.

[albrecht]

I don't know, I think he's intentionally trying to obfuscate the incident as well. But he's not wrong about extremist conservatives trying to demonize muslims.

No offense but again the head Muslim group in the country came out condemning the attack yesterday immediately and saying this is unacceptable. I've seen way more Muslims in the media and online condemning this stuff than any sort of pro-terrorism. Western Muslims really seem to be trying to be laid back.

Again, I'm sure people in the Middle East are saying the same thing about drone attacks and why don't American citizens do something about it. But what are you and I going to do about that?

As one who tends to "gin up" the rhetoric I agree with you. The problem is, maybe, Western Civ needs to start getting their dander up. If you read about ISIS, in particular, but Islam in general or about terrorism (in theory.) They want the reaction. Oddly ISIS's views are really spectacular in their ideal (there will be a final battle in which even Jesus will come back and finally help and other crazy stuff. They WANT the battle there.) And they also, essentially, have a caliphate (and working business model and type of government/welfare state, oddly.) My point is instead of drip-drip give them the battle- but the one they don't want. Contain, kick out of our lands, and sanction/mine/no-fly their countries. No aide of any type, no military sales, no trade, nothing with them.
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2014-the-business-of-isis-spreadsheets-annual-reports-and-terror/#/
http://juergentodenhoefer.de/my-10-days-in-the-islamic-state/?lang=en

[Zetaspeak]

Hmm...my only problem is what is the definition of a "right wing attack?" This may cut a wide swath in definition but Muslim attacks are pretty clearly Muslim attacks. I also feel like that balance may tip the other way soon, if trends continue.

I went through some of the detail and they seem to be doing a pretty fair definition of incidents. As for the RW attack, mostly white supremacists with a lot of anti-government/Sovereign movement with a bit religious zealously . You are right it is a bit of a broad brush but I think those listed do represent the extreme of the conservative movement.

Which brings me back to my point that the RW attacks are from people who take the conservative philosophy and take it to an extreme, just like the 5 million muslims view the people who do attacks are taking things to a horrible extreme.

[frankietoronto]

albrecht are you aware that ISIS is a CIA construct. Do you know the Turks are buying their stolen oil and giving them intelligence on NATO and Russian military manouvering?

[albrecht]

I went through some of the detail and they seem to be doing a pretty fair definition of incidents. As for the RW attack, mostly white supremacists with a lot of anti-government/Sovereign movement with a bit religious zealously . You are right it is a bit of a broad brush but I think those listed do represent the extreme of the conservative movement.

Which brings me back to my point that the RW attacks are from people who take the conservative philosophy and take it to an extreme, just like the 5 million muslims view the people who do attacks are taking things to a horrible extreme.

I admit there are problems in all cultures, people, religions, ethnicities, etc. And admire your attempt to document stats but the variables are too great and reporting too mixed. Race, religion, and ethnicity- much less political "right" "left" etc- aren't properly defined or documented. As I mentioned, here, in the US a "hispanic" can identify as "black" or "white" or "hispanic," "whites" can "identify" as "white non-hispanic" or as "hispanic." Police reports and surveys also have issues. All of this adds to statistical problems in data. Also crimes across states (much more countries) differ in definition: so "rape" can be under/over reported, and comparison between regions seem awful/desperate. Religion? Even harder because I'm not aware, unless "hate crime", most criminal stats even record the religion of the person which can cross all racial/ethnic lines and include no religion. Politics? I know of no official stats that are recorded at crime scenes (of victim or perp) on that and also, maybe more so can cross "lines" of race/ethnicity. One can seen clear trends (example Sweden's rape rate vs immigration/refugee) or simply black/white in the USA but the religion thing is harder to do. I'm guessing there would be a higher per capita crime rate for Muslims (just thinking data in places like France, Germany, or the Netherlands) but, then again, we assimilate better here? But, until recently, haven't experienced the massive immigration from those lands? And, usually, the 2nd or 3rd generation really ramps it up (in those countries due non-assimilation and marginalization?) We will, no doubt, see. Enoch was right.

[albrecht]

albrecht are you aware that ISIS is a CIA construct. Do you know the Turks are buying their stolen oil and giving them intelligence on NATO and Russian military manouvering?

Sure. I don't know for sure about the CIA construct, I'm leaning more towards Obama and State Dept, and misguided (or-gasp- on purpose) policy of supporting "Springers" and "Rebels" but everyone is aware of the oil stuff. Turkey is the prime example of a "deep state" and now, likely, outright criminal one. Russia is now also, likely. Here? I don't know, increasingly likely. I can understand, the idea, of destabilization and thinking of various neo-cons, Brzezinskis, Kissingers, types etc. An old idea, but, I think, not wise. Sure I "get" that Russia and China are the "enemy" but I think we should have a new paradigm. Maybe even, though that horse is past the post, of getting Russian into our side (there was opportunity soime decades ago with Chinese threat, Muslim threat, change in system, etc) but squandered. Some people want war, ideally, cold or proxy, but not against even big ones, I think. Much $$$.

[SciFiAuthor]

I'm concerned with how do we control these gangs and extremists. I don't really care about the 1.4 billion Muslims on the planet, the KKK or taking guns away from mentally balanced white people.

Carpet bomb the middle east with 12 packs of beer, wrestling and NASCAR DVD's, and porn. After a few generations, they'll be alright.

If that doesn't work, then find out the underlying reasons driving people to groups like ISIS and address those core problems no matter what they may be. Political correctness doesn't really allow that right now, so until that changes it will just get worse.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

Smuggle LSD and psilocybin into the middle east. Get this shit in the youth's hands and religion will be dead in a generation. Of course their kids are going start having major gender issues and will ponder microaggressions but that's better than taking 2,000 year old words literally.

[albrecht]

Smuggle LSD and psilocybin into the middle east. Get this shit in the youth's hands and religion will be dead in a generation. Of course their kids are going start having major gender issues and will ponder microaggressions but that's better than taking 2,000 year old words literally.

Lots already are on heroin and speed (ISIS likes Captagon in particular.) And history of hash, of course, in those areas? Maybe the psychedelics would work? But then we might get a whole bunch more of C2C new-agey gurus in a few years? Yuck.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

history never gets tired of re-runs, and history is spoiling for a fight. 

albrecht i don't think i've ever seen any poster mention Enoch (Powell) before on this forum. 

[JamesMcDonald]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wwpcxKU5FE

[albrecht]

history never gets tired of re-runs, and history is spoiling for a fight. 

albrecht i don't think i've ever seen any poster mention Enoch (Powell) before on this forum. 

I do, everyso often, but usually in politics and not that frequently. The reference would be lost on most, so usually in response to a Brit sometimes. And many don't read or have me blocked, maybe.  Though I try not to personally insult or whatever but, sometimes facts are scary. Enoch was right.

[akwilly]

Carpet bomb the middle east with 12 packs of beer, wrestling and NASCAR DVD's, and porn. After a few generations, they'll be alright.

If that doesn't work, then find out the underlying reasons driving people to groups like ISIS and address those core problems no matter what they may be. Political correctness doesn't really allow that right now, so until that changes it will just get worse.

I would also put Viagra in the water. Sex, or lack of, is always the reason people do crazy things.

[VtaGeezer]

Carpet bomb the middle east with 12 packs of beer, wrestling and NASCAR DVD's, and porn. After a few generations, they'll be alright.

If that doesn't work, then find out the underlying reasons driving people to groups like ISIS and address those core problems no matter what they may be. Political correctness doesn't really allow that right now, so until that changes it will just get worse.

FIFY

[Dr. MD MD]

I don't know, I think he's intentionally trying to obfuscate the incident as well. But he's not wrong about extremist conservatives trying to demonize muslims.

No offense but again the head Muslim group in the country came out condemning the attack yesterday immediately and saying this is unacceptable. I've seen way more Muslims in the media and online condemning this stuff than any sort of pro-terrorism. Western Muslims really seem to be trying to be laid back.

Again, I'm sure people in the Middle East are saying the same thing about drone attacks and why don't American citizens do something about it. But what are you and I going to do about that?

There are polite condemnations and denouncements at the time of an attack meant mostly to appease us. What are they doing to get through to their own people though?

[JamesMcDonald]

Sure. I don't know for sure about the CIA construct, I'm leaning more towards Obama and State Dept, and misguided (or-gasp- on purpose) policy of supporting "Springers" and "Rebels" but everyone is aware of the oil stuff. Turkey is the prime example of a "deep state" and now, likely, outright criminal one. Russia is now also, likely. Here? I don't know, increasingly likely. I can understand, the idea, of destabilization and thinking of various neo-cons, Brzezinskis, Kissingers, types etc. An old idea, but, I think, not wise. Sure I "get" that Russia and China are the "enemy" but I think we should have a new paradigm. Maybe even, though that horse is past the post, of getting Russian into our side (there was opportunity soime decades ago with Chinese threat, Muslim threat, change in system, etc) but squandered. Some people want war, ideally, cold or proxy, but not against even big ones, I think. Much $$$.

[akwilly]

Kinda looks like Norry on Johns left.

[Dr. MD MD]

Smuggle LSD and psilocybin into the middle east. Get this shit in the youth's hands and religion will be dead in a generation. Of course their kids are going start having major gender issues and will ponder microaggressions but that's better than taking 2,000 year old words literally.

Smartest plan of action in the thread! Let's take it worldwide though 

[albrecht]

Oh yeah. Well aware. I think some of these guys, maybe it was other terrorists, attended some WH dinners even. But McCain never has met a situation in which war shouldn't be an option. But, he is not, I hope, in the leadership, at least real leadership, which, in some ways, is even more scary than the McCain bomb-bomb fight everyone stuff.

[FightTheFuture]

Let's see, ALL terrorists (well, 99.86%) are Muslim. It's impossible to distinguish between the terrorist Muslims and the non-terrorist Muslims.

Solution: Time to say bye-bye to ALL Muslims.

[bateman]

I don't think that's the same guy.

[PING]

I don't think that's the same guy.

You trying to say they all look alike?   

What happened to crip Trump?

[Yorkshire pud]

Let's see, ALL terrorists (well, 99.86%) are Muslim. It's impossible to distinguish between the terrorist Muslims and the non-terrorist Muslims.

Solution: Time to say bye-bye to ALL Muslims.

Spoken like a God fearing Christian. Are you sure you're a Christian? Have you certificates or something?

[Up All Night]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427990/san-bernardino-shooting-refugee-crisis-ted-cruz-jeff-sessions

Senator Ted Cruz (R., Texas) and Senator Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.) want President Obama to release the immigration records of the San Bernardino shooters, arguing they should play a key role in the coming debate over funding the Syrian refugee resettlement& program.

Their request comes as CBS reports that one of the shooting suspects passed the Department of Homeland Security’s “counterterrorism screening as part of her vetting” for a visa. Federal officials maintain that they have a rigorous and effective screening process in place for people from countries such as Syria that have significant jihadist movements, making the immigration records of the San Bernardino shooters a potentially significant piece of the debate over refugee policy.

“We are dealing with an enemy that has shown it is not only capable of bypassing U.S. screening, but of recruiting and radicalizing Muslim migrants after their entry to the United States,” Cruz and Sessions wrote to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, Secretary of State John Kerry, and Attorney General Loretta Lynch. The letter reiterates the lawmakers’ longstanding request for the immigration records of twelve other terror suspects, which the Obama administration has failed to release even as the debate over the Syrian refugee crisis has heated up.

“Congress is days away from consideration of an omnibus year-end funding bill that would set the U.S. on an autopilot path to approve green cards, asylum, and refugee status to approximately 170,000 migrants from Muslim countries during the next year,” Cruz and Sessions wrote.

“The security task involved is immense, and Congress must have the requested information if lawmakers are to act as responsible stewards of American immigration policy.”

[Yorkshire pud]

Couple of stories; connected by one having to deal with the aftermath, and one who got us in this shit.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/04/police-officer-mike-madden-tells-of-pure-panic-at-san-bernardino-shooting-scene?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+Charity+appeal+041215&utm_term=141412&subid=11301906&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/04/support-isis-parts-muslim-societies-tony-blair?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+Charity+appeal+041215&utm_term=141412&subid=11301906&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

What a surprise eh Tony? Fucker.

[paladin1991]

Geraldo Says to Give Up Your Guns So Moslems Can Slaughter You Better

https://twitter.com/GeraldoRivera/status/672171494055768065
he probably hoped the shooters where white Neo-Nazis or something.

Geraldo?  Who....Oh, you mean Jerry Rivers!

[Yorkshire pud]

Geraldo Says to Give Up Your Guns So Moslems Can Slaughter You Better

https://twitter.com/GeraldoRivera/status/672171494055768065
he probably hoped the shooters where white Neo-Nazis or something.

Where were you Nazi? Eh? Wanking over Hitler photos?

[Yorkshire pud]

Interesting chat/phone in on Radio 2 today..Carol Gould and Beth Gardner (two American journos)..The thing I found interesting is apparently three motions put to congress 24 hours after this massacre were voted off..Including background checks on suspects on terrorist watch lists! Because the NRA doesn't like it. You can't make this shit up.

[VtaGeezer]

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427990/san-bernardino-shooting-refugee-crisis-ted-cruz-jeff-sessions

Senator Ted Cruz (R., Texas) and Senator Jeff Sessions (R., Ala.) want President Obama to release the immigration records of the San Bernardino shooters, arguing they should play a key role in the coming debate over funding the Syrian refugee resettlement& program.

Farook was born in the nation of Illinois and immigrated with his parents to their new country of California with his parents.  Unlike Mr. Cruz who was born in Canada.

[FightTheFuture]

Farook was born in the nation of Illinois and immigrated with his parents to their new country of California with his parents.  Unlike Mr. Cruz who was born in Canada.

The female was not born here. She cleared all State Dept screening and was certified a "good Muslim."