I'm done criticizing Heather.

[Auslandia]

Lord knows I'm guilty of this but from this point on, I'm making a conscious effort not to criticize Heather. 

1. It's pointless

2. It's a waste of energy

3. What exactly is it accomplishing? 

She's doing a show the best way she knows how.  She got shafted by Art's flakiness.  There you go. You guys have fun with picking apart every nuance of the show.  I'm gonna have a beer and get on with things.

Any criticism I've ever launched was mostly due to comparing her to Art or being mad at Art which isn't fair.  I can't believe I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the fervor.  Heather-- sorry for whatever it's worth.  Carry on & have fun with the show. 

If you hate the show, stop subscribing.  It's pretty fucking easy. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Lord knows I'm guilty of this but from this point on, I'm making a conscious effort not to criticize Heather. 

1. It's pointless

2. It's a waste of energy

3. What exactly is it accomplishing? 

She's doing a show the best way she knows how.  She got shafted by Art's flakiness.  There you go. You guys have fun with picking apart every nuance of the show.  I'm gonna have a beer and get on with things.

Any criticism I've ever launched was mostly due to comparing her to Art or being mad at Art which isn't fair.  I can't believe I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the fervor.  Heather-- sorry for whatever it's worth.  Carry on & have fun with the show. 

If you hate the show, stop subscribing.  It's pretty fucking easy.

What~? How dare you state the bleeding obvious.

[Robert]

Lord knows I'm guilty of this but from this point on, I'm making a conscious effort not to criticize Heather. 

1. It's pointless

2. It's a waste of energy

3. What exactly is it accomplishing?

She's doing a show the best way she knows how.

You don't think she reads here & tries to improve on the basis of the feedback she gets?  You don't think there's anyone else involved in the prod'n who goes over our real-time comments while listening to the respective recordings of the shows, to pick out coaching points?

[GravitySucks]

Lord knows I'm guilty of this but from this point on, I'm making a conscious effort not to criticize Heather. 

1. It's pointless

2. It's a waste of energy

3. What exactly is it accomplishing? 

She's doing a show the best way she knows how.  She got shafted by Art's flakiness.  There you go. You guys have fun with picking apart every nuance of the show.  I'm gonna have a beer and get on with things.

Any criticism I've ever launched was mostly due to comparing her to Art or being mad at Art which isn't fair.  I can't believe I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the fervor.  Heather-- sorry for whatever it's worth.  Carry on & have fun with the show. 

If you hate the show, stop subscribing.  It's pretty fucking easy.

Are you serious, or are you just trying to get off my ignore list?

[Value Of Pi]

Lord knows I'm guilty of this but from this point on, I'm making a conscious effort not to criticize Heather. 

1. It's pointless

2. It's a waste of energy

3. What exactly is it accomplishing? 

She's doing a show the best way she knows how.  She got shafted by Art's flakiness.  There you go. You guys have fun with picking apart every nuance of the show.  I'm gonna have a beer and get on with things.

Any criticism I've ever launched was mostly due to comparing her to Art or being mad at Art which isn't fair.  I can't believe I allowed myself to get wrapped up in the fervor.  Heather-- sorry for whatever it's worth.  Carry on & have fun with the show. 

If you hate the show, stop subscribing.  It's pretty fucking easy.

With a little editing, a lot actually, you could have had a nice, sincere apology to Heather. But then you had to go off on everyone else who hasn't yet felt the need to apologize to Heather. It doesn't make the apology seem any more sincere; it just makes you seem overcome with guilt. Really, whatever you said was not that bad. Just say a dozen Hail Heathers and be done with it.

[Auslandia]

You don't think she reads here & tries to improve on the basis of the feedback she gets?  You don't think there's anyone else involved in the prod'n who goes over our real-time comments while listening to the respective recordings of the shows, to pick out coaching points?

All the criticism can be summed up thusly:  Heather is not Art, therefore we are unsatisfied.

[Auslandia]

With a little editing, a lot actually, you could have had a nice, sincere apology to Heather. But then you had to go off on everyone else who hasn't yet felt the need to apologize to Heather. It doesn't make the apology seem any more sincere; it just makes you seem overcome with guilt. Really, whatever you said was not that bad. Just say a dozen Hail Heathers and be done with it.

I'm glad you loved it.

[Auslandia]

Are you serious, or are you just trying to get off my ignore list?

I'm serious but you can keep me in ignore. 

[henge0stone]

I like how this Art Bell fan forum is viscous to Art Bell (in a lovable way of course, well it used to be now it is just viscous sometimes) but when people criticize Heather all the sudden you become an asshole and everyone hates on you. Not to mention the whole forum was originally made to hate on Art Bell's successor.

Also she's new to the game criticism is important for growth. Making Heather untouchable to criticism is the same as saying Art, George, or any podcaster here is off limits which is not what the forum should be.

[Value Of Pi]

All the criticism can be summed up thusly:  Heather is not Art, therefore we are unsatisfied.

So, we could have all saved time by designating you as our spokesman and then you could also have apologized for all of us. You should have said something before we wasted our time coming up with our own criticisms.

[SciFiAuthor]

I like how this Art Bell fan forum is viscous to Art Bell (in a lovable way of course, well it used to be now it is just viscous sometimes) but when people criticize Heather all the sudden you become an asshole and everyone hates on you. Not to mention the whole forum was originally made to hate on Art Bell's successor.

Also she's new to the game criticism is important for growth. Making Heather untouchable to criticism is the same as saying Art, George, or any podcaster here is off limits which is not what the forum should be.

Seriously? Constructive criticism mostly stopped several weeks ago. Then it was just criticism. Then that stopped. All that's left are personal attacks on her.

[SciFiAuthor]

All the criticism can be summed up thusly:  Heather is not Art, therefore we are unsatisfied.

+1.

[Auslandia]

So, we could have all saved time by designating you as our spokesman and then you could also have apologized for all of us. You should have said something before we wasted our time coming up with our own criticisms.

Yes precisely.  You can thank me later. 

[Auslandia]

I like how this Art Bell fan forum is viscous to Art Bell (in a lovable way of course, well it used to be now it is just viscous sometimes) but when people criticize Heather all the sudden you become an asshole and everyone hates on you. Not to mention the whole forum was originally made to hate on Art Bell's successor.

Also she's new to the game criticism is important for growth. Making Heather untouchable to criticism is the same as saying Art, George, or any podcaster here is off limits which is not what the forum should be.

I never said it was off limits.  I said I'm done.  She's not Art.  That seemed to be my beef all along. 

[Value Of Pi]

I like how this Art Bell fan forum is viscous to Art Bell (in a lovable way of course, well it used to be now it is just viscous sometimes) but when people criticize Heather all the sudden you become an asshole and everyone hates on you. Not to mention the whole forum was originally made to hate on Art Bell's successor.

Also she's new to the game criticism is important for growth. Making Heather untouchable to criticism is the same as saying Art, George, or any podcaster here is off limits which is not what the forum should be.

Yeah, that's interesting. All I can think of is that when I was about four, my parents told me it was wrong to ever hit a girl. Boys if I had to, but never girls. Probably part of the story here.

[TheGrimCreeper1]

All the criticism can be summed up thusly:  Heather is not Art, therefore we are unsatisfied.

Not so fast, my friend.  Don't assume to speak for all of us. I'll also add Heather is not good or interesting therefore I am unsatisfied.

Good luck with your Heather ass-kissing thread.

[henge0stone]

Seriously? Constructive criticism mostly stopped several weeks ago. Then it was just criticism. Then that stopped. All that's left are personal attacks on her.

I don't siff through all the pages to differatiate what is counted as personal attack and constructive criticism. I think your opinion on what is constructive and what is a personal attack is objective too, for instance

VtaGeezer posted this on page 447
'The original post questioned whether HW has a sense of humor. Bell's sharp sense of wry humor and irony is a major element in his style and talent.  I think her SoH is quite weak and her ability to deliver of a good line seems nonexistent.  Maybe she's of MTV generation, whose sense of humor tends toward witless clownishness.'

Do you consider that a personal attack or constructive? it seems a little bit of both to me. It's much more of a critique of her style than anything else. Either way does it really matter? Should personal attacks towards Art and George and podcasters be okay but not okay towards Heather?

[SciFiAuthor]

Other than Gravity, I like how a group of people that I never see in the live show thread and presumably unsubscribed after Art left are trying to justify or figure out a way to get out of criticizing Heather. You can't make this shit up guys.

[SciFiAuthor]

I don't siff through all the pages to differatiate what is counted as personal attack and constructive criticism. I think your opinion on what is constructive and what is a personal attack is objective too, for instance

VtaGeezer posted this on page 447
'The original post questioned whether HW has a sense of humor. Bell's sharp sense of wry humor and irony is a major element in his style and talent.  I think her SoH is quite weak and her ability to deliver of a good line seems nonexistent.  Maybe she's of MTV generation, whose sense of humor tends toward witless clownishness.'

Do you consider that a personal attack or constructive? it seems a little bit of both to me. It's much more of a critique of her style than anything else. Either way does it really matter? Should personal attacks towards Art and George and podcasters be okay but not okay towards Heather?

I think you actually need to read through the full threads to get a sense of what's actually going on when the show is live. Listening might help too. And to answer the question, no, I would not call that a personal attack. I would call page after page of casting negative aspersions against her personal life and history an attack.

[Auslandia]

Other than Gravity, I like how a group of people that I never see in the live show thread and presumably unsubscribed after Art left are trying to justify or figure out a way to get out of criticizing Heather. You can't make this shit up guys.

I'm sleeping during the live show.  I'm also a subscriber. 

[SciFiAuthor]

I'm sleeping during the live show.  I'm also a subscriber.

Good for you. I'm glad to see you're moving away from negative commentary. I actually agree with you for once in this thread.

[henge0stone]

I think you actually need to read through the full threads to get a sense of what's actually going on when the show is live. Listening might help too. And to answer the question, no, I would not call that a personal attack. I would call page after page of casting negative aspersions against her personal life and history an attack.

So therefore your statement that its nothing but personal attacks is not accurate. Now since I don't listen or go on the thread I will admit that there could be personal attacks there but Heather knew what she was getting into. She was on a forum that hated on George Noory and anyone who wasn't Art.

[onan]

Other than Gravity, I like how a group of people that I never see in the live show thread and presumably unsubscribed after Art left are trying to justify or figure out a way to get out of criticizing Heather. You can't make this shit up guys.

I don't get it. I didn't start taking at shots at Dave until he had been fucking the mic for more than 2 years. He makes a half mill a year and does less work than diarrhea. I understand the umbrage there. Here, it's an eighth grade mentality.

Heather on the other hand is being criticized by wankers for not having a sense of humor they understand. Being scorned for her voice. Wish these scum suckers could have listened to Myron Cope.

[onan]

Heather knew what she was getting into.

Well that justifies being a dick, doesn't it?

[SciFiAuthor]

So therefore your statement that its nothing but personal attacks is not accurate. Now since I don't listen or go on the thread I will admit that there could be personal attacks there but Heather knew what she was getting into. She was on a forum that hated on George Noory and anyone who wasn't Art.

So you don't go on the thread and you don't listen, yet you have some magical sense of the state of the criticism of her. That's fucking amazing. Like superhero power amazing.

[SciFiAuthor]

I don't get it. I didn't start taking at shots at Dave until he had been fucking the mic for more than 2 years. He makes a half mill a year and does less work than diarrhea. I understand the umbrage there. Here, it's an eighth grade mentality.

Heather on the other hand is being criticized by wankers for not having a sense of humor they understand. Being scorned for her voice. Wish these scum suckers could have listened to Myron Cope.

Me neither, as you probably recall I joined Bellgab as a Noory defender until I realized just who and what he was after the Oates interview. Heather has done nothing to deserve the level of attacks she gets other than to attempt to keep Art's chair warm during a really bad situation. It's BS that she takes the flak that she does.

[Showroom Dummy]

Heather is doing good  -
to all the haters  if you don't like the show --don't listen
and stop posting bad vibes 
i know you haters are  all big art bell fans 
your just a fan    its ok be happy

[henge0stone]

Well that justifies being a dick, doesn't it?

I have never been a dick to Heather, I criticized one of her shows and it wasn't even her fault. I'm just saying every criticism of Heather shouldn't be labelled as personal attacks when some people really have actual criticism. Whether I agree with it or not is immaterial. Yes there are people being dicks and attacking Heather personally, but they are doing the same with Art and have been doing the same with George for years. She doesn't deserve personal attacks but there are a lot of them on Bellgab sadly.

[GravitySucks]

Other than Gravity, I like how a group of people that I never see in the live show thread and presumably unsubscribed after Art left are trying to justify or figure out a way to get out of criticizing Heather. You can't make this shit up guys.

I don't spend much time reading the DSM since all of my character defects were alleviated. That being said, I believe there are multiple disorders displayed by many of the posters. I have no idea why anyone would sit at their computer thinking actual joy can be obtained by posting negative comment after negative comment or going into personal attacks.

I get the whole georgenoorysucks history of this forum. There is no comparison. In those threads, somebody makes a "hit and run" remark and moves along. They don't sit there attacking him or his show for 3 hours at a time.

I hope Heather succeeds because I want an alternative to C2C that doesn't have 20 minutes of commercials. She is doing an amazing job considering the position that she was placed in. I'll keep my subscription going as long as she is trying to make it work. She has demonstrated through her words and actions that she is a team player, the best team player that DMRM has.

If you don't subscribe to support to show, and you don't like how she sounds, then get a life and move along. If you feel the need to post negative comment after negative comment and attack a person you have never met, then go back to your doctor and tell them that your meds aren't working.

[henge0stone]

So you don't go on the thread and you don't listen, yet you have some magical sense of the state of the criticism of her. That's fucking amazing. Like superhero power amazing.

When have I criticized her? I am merely saying it shouldn't be a huge no no to not criticize someone on Bellgab.