BellGab.com Archive

BTW, so people have an idea what this might cost Art to do..

Equipment
One time cost, decent equipment might be about $1k for what you would actually need, not counting a computer.   I'm sure Art has most of the equipment he needed already.  Whether or not he thought he needed more was something else.

Producer
I have read a producer makes about $30k/year.  Get some kid fresh out of college looking to build a name for himself? $10/hour or $20,800/year and you pay him as a contractor.
Find an intern, you might get this job done for free.

Streaming
2,400GB of streaming for $900/mo, would cover 40,000 listeners at 60MB per show.
http://streamhoster.com/live_broadcasting_streaming.html
Undoubtedly Art can save here, this was just a cursory search on the web.

Music
ASCAP music license for less than 30,000 user visits per month:  $300
Assuming it is a linear scale, let's say Art gets 100,000 visits per month, that would be $900.   

His stream is less than 40,000 as far as we know.   Who knows about the radio costs, but with my previous communications with these guys, everyone pays their own way - meaning a radio station needs to pay for what it broadcasts - NOT Art Bell.  This is why you can't go posting stuff on Youtube even if you have paid for the rights to include music in your program.

This estimate I found of his traffic says that he gets only 50k/visitors per month:


Here's another interesting stat from Google Trends:



Webmaster
And I think most of us can agree, you can hire someone to do Keith Rowland's job for less than minimum wage.
$10k/year


TOTALS
So the total costs of everything I just mentioned, to run a pretty professional operation:  $75k/year.

The next thing to figure out would be ad revenue.   Anyone want to take a shot at that?

Quote from: (Redacted) on July 27, 2015, 03:13:03 AM
That number is a guess and nothing more.  It's the music rights that cost so much, and I only know that because of Art's posts.

But music rights aren't an issue with the mp3's, so that's kind of a mute point if we're simply talking about pirating or the alternative of releasing old shows.

Quote from: (Redacted) on July 27, 2015, 03:08:53 AM
He's offering a solution to those that can't pay... ?  It's 5 bucks!  Are we really having this discussion over 5 bucks?

No, we were talking about streaming costs, that's what I was talking about.  The bing stuff was separate, and I posted about bing years ago, without, I might add, a reference id in a link. 

And no, we're not having this discussion over $5.   We're talking about $60/year and we're talking about Art vs. Netflix vs. other podcasts that are free vs. other media etc etc.    YES, you and I may be willing to pony up $5 if it's the only way for us to hear Art.  HOWEVER, most people will not!   Art will never have the program that he had in the past if he doesn't let the thing organically grow.  The best way to do that?  Let people pirate.   The money will come in time.   Some of it is already there.

Quote from: (Redacted) on July 27, 2015, 02:54:26 AM
there are regular ads for Time Traveler subs throughout the show.

And I have zero problem with that.   Honestly, if there were twice as many ads and the program was 100% free and released on youtube every day, I would have no problem with that at all.   

With that said, his ads for subbing are pretty bad, IMO. 

Quote from: SaucyRossy on July 27, 2015, 03:00:33 AM
I'm done with you. You're so obviously talking out your butt.

LOL, whatever dude.  Fearlessjay was right.. you're just a big old grump.

Quote from: SaucyRossy on July 27, 2015, 02:59:13 AM
Here's a very easy and pain free solution to people that don't want to spend an extra 5 bucks a month.

USE BING REWARDS

Even if you use it casually you will most likely earn enough points to redeem 10 bucks worth of giftcards to your choice of Amazon, Burger King, Chipotle, Dominos, Starbucks, Skype, Hulu, etc.

It will not only offset the cost of a time traveller membership but make you an extra 5 bucks a month.

http://www.bing.com/explore/rewards-g?FORM=MM0AQY&PUBL=GOOGLE&CREA=MM0AQY&ef_id=VaYDxQAABH1yvAbv:20150727085027:s

Is that your reference ID in there, Saucy?  Trying to get some extra points when others reach silver status?

Quote from: SaucyRossy on July 27, 2015, 02:35:39 AM
Have you operated a business, or created and held on to wealth?

What you're suggesting sounds great in theory but Art has a family to take care of and he doesn't owe any of us anything. The show is already FREE. By all means any non lazy person could set up there own recording of the show's while they are live and keep them privately. But to suggest that he make it free for fans to access content ON DEMAND, which is what ALL content creators ask people to pay for, is ludicrous.

You have no clue how much the operating cost of the network is, none of us do. Art and Keith have said they don't want it to get too big too fast, and Art has also said he isn't doing this for the money, which I guarantee he could've gone to a terrestrial source and gotten 10x out the gate what they are probably pulling in on these initial time traveller sign ups.

So, no, you didn't make a good suggestion, you didn't even make a realistic one, and you're idea makes you just as bad as the guy you hate on all the time who also demands stuff for free.

You fool.  MV streams and hosts his shows for free to the public.   If he can do it, a multi-millionaire top tier radio host can do it.   Art has repeatedly said he isn't in it for the money, which I believe, but it doesn't cost a lot to just do it.   I don't believe that Art is trying to "start small."   Starting small is doing what MV did years ago, and it takes very little.    Besides all of this, Art already has a couple of advertisers, that should be more than enough to pay bandwidth and music royalty (streaming) costs.   I have a very hard time believing that music costs are as high as everyone is claiming.  Anyone who bothers can go look and see that the opening cost to stream 24/7 music is about $300/year.    I'm sure it's more if you have more listeners, but it doesn't get exponentially more expensive.   The streaming part is probably more expensive, but again, not un-doable for someone in Art's position.   Until Art lists out all the costs, I will not believe that he cannot do this without $5/mo from a ton of subscribers.

Quote from: SaucyRossy on July 27, 2015, 02:28:34 AM
Premiere actively goes after pirated stuff and tried to take u7 down recently. So, no, it's not "a bit rich".

Art, doesn't work for premiere anymore.

And that is Premiere's mistake.   They feel they can get people to pay for their show for only 15 cents a day.  Got news for them...  it isn't worth 2 cents a day.   Hell, I don't even pirate his shows anymore they are so bad.   

Quote from: SaucyRossy on July 27, 2015, 02:21:42 AM
Well, for now it's Art's preferred way of dealing with the issue and calling him a hypocrite because he wants to make sure they have enough money to stay operating as a business so, you know they can broadcast, does absolutely nothing to help the situation.

If you have a better idea than sending links to his producer to take them down, then by all means suggest it.

I just did.   Calling a spade a spade is who I am.    Art is a multi millionaire.   He could release his program for absolutely nothing.    Doesn't want to pay much for streaming bandwith?   Limit the number of open listening slots and make people pay to get in other ones.   Doesn't want to pay for hosting old shows?     Throw them up on youtube or any of the other free podcast hosting services.     I'm not sure though that he's really paying much for streaming anyway - every day he thanks the Streaming Guys so my guess is they've come to some sort of inexpensive arrangement.    It's GREAT for them to have Art on as one of their premier streams they can brag about.

I realize he probably has to pay Doctor J some pittance of a salary.   However, even that he could farm out for free to Redacted, Jazmunda or one of the other fans who has more time than myself and who loves Art and would do it just to be part of the "in club."    (That was not a dig on you Redacted, nor on you Jaz).

Quote from: (Redacted) on July 27, 2015, 02:08:05 AM
I apologize to you, Sir Area51Drone, if I have not adequately responded.  Was not intentionally insulting you.  Have no issue with you.  I read many posts agreeing to help.  I was wrong.  Not looking for a fight.

I'm not looking for a fight either, and honestly, good for you that you got to meet Art and be on one of his shows.    That doesn't mean I have to agree that it was a good idea.   

The point of my first post is to communicate to Art that there has to be a better way.   If you took that the wrong way, I'm sorry.

Quote from: Daggit on July 27, 2015, 02:07:24 AM
Shum bwodys upshewt that their bwoy fwalkie's wideo doesn't have as mwany wiews as redacteds. All that twime wasted weverse twolling him.

A misogynist like you must hate the fact that redacted got the gig.

Throw whatever trollish comments my way you want.   I'm just being honest and trying to help Art the way I see it.   

Quote from: (Redacted) on July 27, 2015, 01:53:24 AM
It's probably buried in the Art thread, but I recall plenty of BellGabbers saying they'd give it a shot when Art asked us.  My question in the interview was not intended to put sandpaper up your butt.  Apologies.

Plenty of us have supported him by subscribing.   For you to say you were going to go after pirates seems like hypocrisy to me.   For Art to say he wants to take out piracy seems like hypocrisy to me.    Like it or not, some part of the fact that bellgab is popular is because these old shows are floating around.   You weren't sand papering my butt, you were inviting people to go pirate stuff just so they can say "fuck you."

Secondly, throwing an insult my way and ignoring the meat of my post is exactly why Art should have never had you on as a guest host. 

Quote from: albrecht on July 26, 2015, 03:28:00 PM
I agree. I think Art should embrace it. Not to "compare" him to Alex Jones but in terms of business-wise model of leveraging the internet and sharing (and SW, and radio, etc) to a money-making model. Embrace the openness and sharing, instead of piracy, don't fight it (like Hendrie- where is he now?) Add value, encourage, expand listenership, sell advertizing by imbedded (sort of like he did with 'ads' in the past talking about CCrane, HGH, etc, or encouraging donations and "added value" by being a Time Traveler. Fighting against the sea is a non-starter. Ask King Knut (Canute.)

+1    I was shocked when Redacted said she and others from bellgab were going to go out and be Art's army against piracy, and even more shocked to hear former pirate himself Art say he was going to have the producer actively try to take stuff down.  This seems like such a waste of time and such hypocrisy considering she probably gladly stole premier's shows for years and never felt  one bit of guilt over it.    Even if she didn't, the VAST majority of us here have been.   I support Art and he can do what he wants, but I think he is better off letting piracy go rampant and offering value adds as albrecht suggested.   How about 1 on 1 chats every month like that other program - but god forbid you copy C2C's ideas though, right?   How about  releasing week or month-old programs to youtube yourself so that you build a big subscriber base on youtube and add ads to the channel so it is another revenue stream?   Promote the hell out of being a time traveler on the youtube slots.    How about creating the After Dark newsletter again in digital form, and releasing that for subscribers?   Throw last night's shows up on itunes for downloading at a buck a piece as another revenue stream and so being a subscriber looks like a great deal and offers a non-piracy option for those who missed the show last night.    I'm sure there are a million other ideas people can come up with that are better than trying to stop something that the RIAA with its millions could never do.

Another point - I know $5 isn't that much now a days.  But in this day and age, people are cord cutting like crazy - and when they see entertainment like Netflix available for $8/mo that you get to download a myriad of shows with 10,000x the bandwidth of what a month's worth of Art Bell programs are, subscriptions to Art Bell seem like only a die hard fan option.  If I were Art, I think I would offer a yearly subscription for $20 so that you're deeply undercutting that other show and making them look like a bunch of butt fuckers.   When people have and hear about the option of buying their paranormal talk at a discounted rate for a much better show, they will probably drop their C2C subs and join in with Art.    Assuming Art is reading this - as good as you are, Art, you are still fighting a battle against a huge amount of other entertainment options which are becoming increasingly cheap or free.    Don't make the mistake of putting people off by paying for your program.   There are some podcasts out there that make millions in ad revenue that charge nothing for the podcast at all.

While not associated with anonymous, per se, Art should get this guy on...   Jay Allen, a writer from boingboing.. 

http://boingboing.net/2015/01/19/invasion-boards-set-out-to-rui.html

Quote from: HorrorReporter on July 25, 2015, 02:37:42 PM
a gamer who who may know something about Sad Satan.

Very interesting.. will have to watch the youtube walkthrough.   Noory actually had a guest on who wrote a book about the dark web, it was pretty interesting..  if Art would interview him, I bet he could get some great nuggets of info out of him.

This thread is to keep a log of all the swearing we hear on MITD, even though Art says there shouldn't be any swearing on the show.  I didn't catch it, but apparently the first guest on 7/20/15 said "shit" a couple of times, and Art let through "damn it" from a caller around 35 minutes in on 7/24/15.    What's the worst thing he'll let anyone say without  Do the wild thinging them?   

Any thoughts on this guy?  He refused to call himself anonymous, and why would he go on there using his real voice?   What was with him saying hello to Ft. Meade?

Quote from: williedee on July 24, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
http://www.streamguys.com/statistics/webcastmetrics.php ..

Notice the little underground alien at the bottom of their page?  Gotta love it!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say my opinion is that while Art would probably prefer people did not pirate his stuff, he is not going to go after anyone for doing so.   You have to remember that Art ran his own pirate radio station back in the day.   The man understands the mentality.   It sucks that the music isn't included in the paid podcast.   It would not be right for those to be the ones that ultimately end up in some torrent 20 years from now when Art is dead and long gone (Art, I hope you live longer but you know what I mean).     Art knows we love the music - he loves the music himself, and I'm sure if $$ wasn't an issue then he'd include them in the paid version.   So, the work is on all of us now to at least archive them as Randy/Williedee is doing, so that one day they can be out there.   

+1 for open lines being the best.   Seems to me that every radio show that I have ever liked has had some kind of open lines, or at at a minimum call ins for a "guest" (ala Phil Hendrie)

Has anyone here actually subbed to RCH's program for $5??

40k.. that's so incredible right off the bat that that many people have been looking forward to Art's return.   Given they have leaderboards on tune in and any other streaming stuff, Art surely will build a big online following very quickly.   Amazing

Quote from: Celestial on July 17, 2015, 01:55:07 PM
Ha!!! I got Bob Lazar!

You once tried to hang your college diplomas in your home office, but couldn’t find them.

LOL..  I actually tend to believe Lazar, but that's hilarious

I am Stanton Friedman too.

Here's another question I may have missed - if I sign up for other side of midnight, will I get the audio of all the technical problems at the beginning of the first show?

That's true, but even if we knew what their stream was, as long as they're not topping it out every night, we could still calculate that for guest vs guest.    I think it'd be really fun to make a game of betting on guest or show popularity.   Anyone remember that celebrity stock market Art pushed way back when?  It seemed like Art enjoyed that, but it might have had something to do with his own vanity.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on July 23, 2015, 01:23:38 PM
I do know he'd welcome financial support for the Center

LOL, for what, him living in his house or apartment?   He has one line that he lets the answering machine get, and he'll call you back if he deems you interesting enough.   Half of the reports he gives on the air seem to be chinese lanterns to me.

It would be really sweet if Art did publish his numbers, and we were able to bet on how popular guests were going to be, like a game with leaderboards and such.   If Art were willing to publish the numbers, I'd be willing to code that up!     What do you say Art, sound fun?

I would love another hour, but I'm happy enough that he's doing 3 and I would not want him to burn himself out.   It's amazing how much better it is to get a new show than listen to an old one.   His commentary on today's news is great to listen to.

I'm hearing from a number of people privately that they tuned out as soon as they heard it was LMH on last night.   I haven't listened to it yet but my guess is its the same old same old and hence she just doesn't carry the numbers that say the CIA spy guy the night before did.   

It would be REALLY cool if Art would share his listenership each night, so that we the audience could see who was a winner and who wasn't...  even if he didn't want to give exact numbers, he could perhaps give us a graph of the night to see how many people tune in and out of a show. 

I did catch a bit of RCH's program, and he claimed "tens of thousands" of people were listening to him (RCH), which he said Art was impressed with.