Random Political Thoughts

[Lunger]

Can't be; Nazis were/ are liberals, allegedly.



http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-30638811

True enough.
The Nazi's would be called Progressives today.  Don't forget, Hitler hated the Communists not because of their ideology but because they were competitors. 

[Yorkshire pud]

True enough.
The Nazi's would be called Progressives today.  Don't forget, Hitler hated the Communists not because of their ideology but because they were competitors.

Hmmm; wrong, On several levels.

[Lunger]

Hmmm; wrong, On several levels.

Yeah?

And, National Socialism means what exactly?

[Yorkshire pud]

Yeah?

And, National Socialism means what exactly?

Oh, changing tack? You said Hitler hated the Communists because they were competition; competition for what exactly? The ideologies are completely different. Hitler saw anything or anyone who was a potential enemy as 'competition'. You could just as well have said gypsies, Jews and anything non Aryan were 'competition.

[Catsmile]

Oh, changing tack? You said Hitler hated the Communists because they were competition; competition for what exactly? The ideologies are completely different. Hitler saw anything or anyone who was a potential enemy as 'competition'. You could just as well have said gypsies, Jews and anything non Aryan were 'competition.

What does any of that have to do with AM radio narrative? STOP THAT!

[PB the Deplorable]

Oh, changing tack? You said Hitler hated the Communists because they were competition; competition for what exactly? The ideologies are completely different. Hitler saw anything or anyone who was a potential enemy as 'competition'. You could just as well have said gypsies, Jews and anything non Aryan were 'competition.

The communists want government control of the means of production.  The National Socialists were willing to allow the means of production to remain in the private sector as long as they controlled it through laws and regulations, if not outright decrees - in other words Fascism - much like what we are seeing in DC right now with the Democrats and the Establishment Republicans.

The end results are the same.  Evil Totalitarian governments powerful enough to control everything and everybody.

They were both competing for the support of those who are against capitalism and who are for big government.

[Yorkshire pud]

The communists want government control of the means of production.  The National Socialists were willing to allow the means of production to remain in the private sector as long as they controlled it through laws and regulations, if not outright decrees - in other words Fascism - much like what we are seeing in DC right now with the Democrats and the Establishment Republicans.

The end results are the same.  Evil Totalitarian governments powerful enough to control everything and everybody.

They were both competing for the support of those who are against capitalism and who are for big government.

Nope..Communists want the workers (people in other words) control of the means of production. All equal, no elitism. No over arching plutocracy or cabal of rulers who make rules and regulations. That's left to the people..


Nazi Germany had many very large private enterprises. Krupps, BMW, Daimler Benz being only three. None were owned by the government, Yes, they were all geared to the war effort for Germany, but so were Rover, Avro, MV in Manchester, and many many companies in the UK, and the likes of Packard, Douglas, Grumman in the US. Georing detested Communists more than Hitler, as Hitler's former mentor was in fact more taken with 'socialism' in it's actuality; Hitler parted the ways with him.

[VtaGeezer]

Nope..Communists want the workers (people in other words) control of the means of production. All equal, no elitism. No over arching plutocracy or cabal of rulers who make rules and regulations. That's left to the people..


Nazi Germany had many very large private enterprises. Krupps, BMW, Daimler Benz being only three. None were owned by the government, Yes, they were all geared to the war effort for Germany, but so were Rover, Avro, MV in Manchester, and many many companies in the UK, and the likes of Packard, Douglas, Grumman in the US. Georing detested Communists more than Hitler, as Hitler's former mentor was in fact more taken with 'socialism' in it's actuality; Hitler parted the ways with him.

Your historical revisionism is not unlike Noory's guests assigning the current pop fantasy to whatever phenomena they desire.  And further, s ome of those poor fools believe their own goofiness too. Alas, no matter how hard you rub your official Glenn Beck blankie, Hitler and the Nazis will remain fascists to the historically literate, and fascism is just Reagan conservatism unleashed. 

[PB the Deplorable]

Nope..Communists want the workers (people in other words) control of the means of production. All equal, no elitism. No over arching plutocracy or cabal of rulers who make rules and regulations. That's left to the people...

Oh yes, that's precisely what they want.  Go ask the Castro's in Cuba or the Kim's in North Korea.

The Warsaw Pact nations, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Yugoslavia, Albania, and others have all figured out it doesn't work, and needs a giant repressive bureaucracy and millions murdered to even try to implement it on any scale larger than a small farm.  Yet Pud soldiers on.

"it hasn't really been tried''.  "The wrong people were in charge".  "The existence of the evil US, with it's Freedom and Liberty, is the reason those who have tried have failed".  "We are the ones we've been waiting for".  "You didn't build that".  "Eat the rich".  Yawn

... Nazi Germany had many very large private enterprises. Krupps, BMW, Daimler Benz being only three. None were owned by the government, Yes, they were all geared to the war effort for Germany...

Yes.  As I said, Fascism is ok with private sector ownership as long as they can dictate operations.  At least even they understand private sector management is superior to running businesses thru a bureaucracy

[PB the Deplorable]

... Hitler and the Nazis will remain fascists to the historically literate...

Umm, duh?

You are the one who is about to suggest they are similar to an American president who won 2 landslides..

... fascism is just Reagan conservatism unleashed.

By the way, I could have sworn the fascists were a 1920's and 30's ideology, and came and went long before Reagan.

But then I'm responding to a person who couldn't even manage to quote the right post.

[analog kid]

Godwin'd times pi.

[b_dubb]

Don't blame me

[Gd5150]

The peaceful and beautiful and even sexy transfer of power.
[attachimg=1]

[Yorkshire pud]

Your historical revisionism is not unlike Noory's guests assigning the current pop fantasy to whatever phenomena they desire.  And further, s ome of those poor fools believe their own goofiness too. Alas, no matter how hard you rub your official Glenn Beck blankie, Hitler and the Nazis will remain fascists to the historically literate, and fascism is just Reagan conservatism unleashed.

I didn't say they wern't fascists (and if you're late to the party, you'll not know this a perenial jape communists v fascists) ; but neither did what Stalin brought on the SU Communism. It was also fascism. The link earlier was highlighting the denial that certain right wingers have about their closeness to fascism and open alliance to neo nazis.

[Yorkshire pud]

Oh yes, that's precisely what they want.  Go ask the Castro's in Cuba or the Kim's in North Korea.

The Warsaw Pact nations, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Yugoslavia, Albania, and others have all figured out it doesn't work, and needs a giant repressive bureaucracy and millions murdered to even try to implement it on any scale larger than a small farm.  Yet Pud soldiers on.

"it hasn't really been tried''.  "The wrong people were in charge".  "The existence of the evil US, with it's Freedom and Liberty, is the reason those who have tried have failed".  "We are the ones we've been waiting for".  "You didn't build that".  "Eat the rich".  Yawn



Yes.  As I said, Fascism is ok with private sector ownership as long as they can dictate operations.  At least even they understand private sector management is superior to running businesses thru a bureaucracy

I see how you missed out the UK and USA governments pretty much ran the industries during the war.. I understand why. I take it though you're not suggesting Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists?

[PB the Deplorable]

I see how you missed out the UK and USA governments pretty much ran the industries during the war.. I understand why. I take it though you're not suggesting Churchill and Roosevelt were fascists?

The key words being 'during the war'.  And unlike what an actual fascist government would have done, after the war things were returned to normal.  So not Fascism, but a nation pulling together to defeat the Nazi's and Imperial Japan.

Things are different now too.  Back then we didn't have someone in the White House trying to undermine the country.  We didn't have a bunch of miscreants and misfits burning and looting our cities and attacking the police.  For the most part our government employees and politicians truly saw themselves as performing public service, not lining their pockets and following their own agendas.  Our cities were vibrant and full of people building the country, we didn't have an angry violent dependent underclass.  We didn't have media, Hollywood, and academia constantly lying and smearing the country, re-writing our history, trying to destroy our institutions and infrastructure.

In short, people supported the country and the war effort. 

I doubt very much our current society would be able to pull together as a united country the way they did during WWII.  We'd probably have to fight the Left every step of the way.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

The peaceful and beautiful and even sexy transfer of power.
[attachimg=1]

Nancy Pelosi must get paid an awful lot to put with that kind of abuse.

[Little Hater]

The peaceful and beautiful and even sexy transfer of power.
[attachimg=1]

How he managed to keep himself from beating that whore to death with that gavel, I'll never know.

[Yorkshire pud]

The key words being 'during the war'.  And unlike what an actual fascist government would have done, after the war things were returned to normal.  So not Fascism, but a nation pulling together to defeat the Nazi's and Imperial Japan.

Things are different now too.  Back then we didn't have someone in the White House trying to undermine the country.  We didn't have a bunch of miscreants and misfits burning and looting our cities and attacking the police.  For the most part our government employees and politicians truly saw themselves as performing public service, not lining their pockets and following their own agendas.  Our cities were vibrant and full of people building the country, we didn't have an angry violent dependent underclass.  We didn't have media, Hollywood, and academia constantly lying and smearing the country, re-writing our history, trying to destroy our institutions and infrastructure.

In short, people supported the country and the war effort. 

I doubt very much our current society would be able to pull together as a united country the way they did during WWII.  We'd probably have to fight the Left every step of the way.

And guess who was voted out and who was voted in (and which party) in the UK,  the first election after the war? By those same people who pulled together for nearly six years.

[albrecht]

I didn't say they wern't fascists (and if you're late to the party, you'll not know this a perenial jape communists v fascists) ; but neither did what Stalin brought on the SU Communism. It was also fascism.

Under Fascism there is still private property, private industry, and corporations but they must serve the state in their endeavors but still making profits (likely more so with consolidation and government help), under communism there is no private property or private businesses (or, in your end goal of "real communism" an elite leadership of party members.)

Hitler combined the socialist program (full-employment, social programs, public education, veteran benefits, and even criticism of capitalist corporations etc) with the Fascist, originally Italian, model of economy for state benefit and strong nationalism with efficiency of private industry and added a severe racist mix (I think reframing the more anti-capitalist social stance into an anti-Jew stance) and German Romanticism/Idealism beliefs to it. The more socialist members of the NDSAP were later killed off (Strasser, the SA, etc) once he got elected and consolidated power. Just like Stalin coming from a further left but just as autocratic and megalomaniacal bent did when he got power.

Stalin wasn't fascist because the state took over all industry and seized most, if not all private property, and ran it themselves (or tried too) directly. Kept in mind that there are many roads to your communistic goal and the theory, conflicts, and discussions between the varies "types" and "methods" to get to your goal can be amazing. Get a Maoist, a Trotskyite, a tradition Marxist-Leninist, etc etc together and see sparks fly! Personally Tito and Hoxha we my favorite commies but I'm sure you have yours. They are are nuts but the internal struggles are comical: "you are a revisionist!!!"

The communists, or the simply-minded, just say "FASCISM" to any autocratic type of government or leader. Could be royal, could be communist, could be some Muslim dictator, could actually be fascist. They also use the term "FASCIST" to be a synonym to anything "bad", especially as a synonym for racist although one could have a fascist economic or even political system without racism.

[Gd5150]

Nancy Pelosi must get paid an awful lot to put with that kind of abuse.

[attachimg=1]

[NowhereInTime]

How he managed to keep himself from beating that whore to death with that gavel, I'll never know.

He attended a top flight university where he learned service to others and the value of decency.  Sometimes.

[paladin1991]

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” â€" Kung Fu Monkey â€" Ephemera, blog post, March 19, 2009

heh.  For me it was Starship Troopers at age 14. Atlas Shrugged at 40.  Funny, I don't feel stunted.

[paladin1991]

Not liberals, but of a leftist bent, especially initially. Call it "socialism" for white workers (and only German white folks, for the most part) combined with militarism and then later just the. Really more of a "Third Way" (though not the "Third Way" of Blair and that bunch.) The name says it all:
Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei
The rightist parties in Germany were more of the old Prussian and Junker classes. Traditionally rightists support royalty and landed elite. Leftist are more populist. NAZI were to the "right" of the communists and anarchists but to the left of the establishment, "royalty", and corporations. Economics-wise there are different combinations. Especially at the beginning the NAZIs were very leftist in bent (but still nationalistic unlike the further left communists.) Then, like all good revolutionaries once they gained power, purged their midst, killed the other leaders (especially those of the more leftist bent), and become more autocratic and cult of personality and cosyed up to large corporate interests, especially post-Anschluss. They were never liberal though which would presuppose some care for personal liberty, private business, less taxation, less government control- which is an anathema for the left and the right.

Call it anything you want, it's still a shit sandwich.

[paladin1991]

Godwin'd times pi.

Called it!  Time of Death for this thread is.....

[PB the Deplorable]

Soros Foundations funding 'Progressives':  $3 Billion in assets managed per year
Koch brothers Foundation funding Conservatives:  $300 Million

After reading this, I suggest the cities and towns that have been under assault by the thugs and looters recruited, funded, and encouraged by George Soros join together and sue him and his 'foundations' for damages in a class action lawsuit.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/?page=all#pagebreak

[Gd5150]

Nope..Communists want the workers (people in other words) control of the means of production. All equal, no elitism. No over arching plutocracy or cabal of rulers who make rules and regulations. That's left to the people..

Wow they sound like great folk. Wonder why they need the KGB.

[Lunger]

Nope..Communists want the workers (people in other words) control of the means of production. All equal, no elitism. No over arching plutocracy or cabal of rulers who make rules and regulations. That's left to the people..

LOL!  Exactly where/when has that ever happened?  I guess this whole the workers of the DPRK have been in charge, just like that whole time the workers in the USSR were in charge ... completely.

[VtaGeezer]

Soros Foundations funding 'Progressives':  $3 Billion in assets managed per year
Koch brothers Foundation funding Conservatives:  $300 Million

After reading this, I suggest the cities and towns that have been under assault by the thugs and looters recruited, funded, and encouraged by George Soros join together and sue him and his 'foundations' for damages in a class action lawsuit.

OOOooo...the Leftie Boogeyman Soros cometh.
As usual you're throwing crap hoping it'll stick. The latest craven lie from the right; conflating broad Soros foundations contributions to humanitarian and civil rights groups with "bankrolling the Ferguson riots ".  The born-to-immense wealth Kochs, now worth over $100 Billion and spending directly for political power like no one in US history, are the worst threat to its democracy this country has ever known.

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

OOOooo...the Leftie Boogeyman Soros cometh.
As usual you're throwing crap hoping it'll stick. The latest craven lie from the right; conflating broad Soros foundations contributions to humanitarian and civil rights groups with "bankrolling the Ferguson riots ".  The born-to-immense wealth Kochs, now worth over $100 Billion and spending directly for political power like no one in US history, are the worst threat to its democracy this country has ever known.

How can you be so naive?  George Soros personally orchestrates and oversees all social protest from the Left after receiving his orders from Saul Alinsky, who communicates with him from beyond the grave via ouija board.

All the poor Koch Brothers do is try to protect us from "anti-mining radicals" who occasionally masquerade as President of the Chamber of Commerce in small Wisconsin towns to hide their nefarious agenda. 

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/koch-brothers-backed-group-enters-local-races-over-mine-b99230698z1-251780661.html