Author Marijuana  (Read 24831 times)

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Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2013, 12:59:39 PM »

Except that it is much more powerful and mind altering drug.  If recreational pot is legalized for in-home use, I suggest that there be severe civil punishments for parents who smoke around their children.  The problem is the act is hidden behind closed doors.


Really? In England, (2011) 79000 people died due to tobacco smoking related diseases. Over 8700 die due to alcohol-but it doesn't include the victim of someone who is pissed up.

 Implicated alone, cannabis caused 6 (six) deaths, and 23 in total including combinations of drugs. The total number of deaths omitting tobacco and alcohol was less than 1200. That includes anti-epilepsy, anti depressant anti psychotic and anti Parkinson disease drugs. Tobacco is the source of 28% of all cancers in the UK. You can extrapolate that (or not) to the USA, it's just an observation.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #121 on: December 10, 2013, 03:24:15 PM »

Really? In England, (2011) 79000 people died due to tobacco smoking related diseases. Over 8700 die due to alcohol-but it doesn't include the victim of someone who is pissed up.

 Implicated alone, cannabis caused 6 (six) deaths, and 23 in total including combinations of drugs. The total number of deaths omitting tobacco and alcohol was less than 1200. That includes anti-epilepsy, anti depressant anti psychotic and anti Parkinson disease drugs. Tobacco is the source of 28% of all cancers in the UK. You can extrapolate that (or not) to the USA, it's just an observation.


You're addressing a debate that I have not.  My concern is strictly about children being exposed to pot in the home.  I think no one in their right mind would want this to occur.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #122 on: December 10, 2013, 03:26:46 PM »

You're addressing a debate that I have not.  My concern is strictly about children being exposed to pot in the home.  I think no one in their right mind would want this to occur.

Well idea: why not publically execute on scaffolds erected in the street all parents that smoke pot in the home? Solves the problem does it not?


Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #123 on: December 10, 2013, 03:31:19 PM »

You're addressing a debate that I have not.  My concern is strictly about children being exposed to pot in the home.  I think no one in their right mind would want this to occur.
I think the concern of exposure is minimal, if by exposure you mean second hand smoke.  If by exposure you mean, the kids sitting at the table while mommy and daddy pass a doobie then probably not, although I know some who would say there's nothing wrong with that either.  I am on the side of it shouldn't be around kids just like our chemicals to clean and our prescription drugs aren't around children.  The adults should have the responsibility to know how THEY react to the pot, therefore know how to ensure they won't be feeding it to their kids by accident. 

I grew up in a potless family =P (except for my bedroom) and it was severely punished and harshly frowned upon.  Now almost 20 years after my young teenage years, I told my dad I would probably be getting on the medicinal programs, if my state ever enacts them, or move to a state where it is legal.  He said he was surprised I hadn't, and that he apologized for being so harsh on me when I was a kid about em.  He just didn't want me to get into OTHER drugs, and was under the "gateway drug" belief.  I however, don't smoke in front of the parents, strictly out of respect for them, nor would I smoke in their house, or anyone that told me they didn't want it there.  Ya know, it's all about letting folks do what they want as grown ass adults, and POT is no where near as bad as having a 12 pack or bottle of alcohol in the house. 

Pot doesn't kill - http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/mj_overdose.htm

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #124 on: December 10, 2013, 03:58:59 PM »
There are a few misconceptions here that need to be addressed. First, marijuana is not smoked like cigarettes are. Second hand smoke from cigarettes is (in the general sense) thick and prolonged. Marijuana is not smoked (again in the general sense), one joint after another.

Cigarettes and their smoke has many carcinogens. The delivery system for cigarettes is very efficient, even a short inhale and quick exhalation is enough to deliver a significant dosage of nicotine. Marijuana, on the other hand needs several seconds to exchange with the alveoli.

There are hazards in almost all environments. Especially regarding children. I notice no concern for insecticide sprays, fresh paint, and common chemicals in almost all households.

Most of the research on marijuana is quite promising. Along with its positive effects on cancer treatment side effects and glaucoma, new research is finding very interesting benefits from canabinoids. Canabinoids are showing ways to stop the activity of the gene responsible for metastasis in breast and other types of cancers. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea. It also has antipsychotic benefits and appears to offer a new (potential) treatment for schizophrenia.

To put all my cards on the table, there is also some "substance induced psychosis.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #125 on: December 10, 2013, 04:03:12 PM »
There are a few misconceptions here that need to be addressed. First, marijuana is not smoked like cigarettes are. Second hand smoke from cigarettes is (in the general sense) thick and prolonged. Marijuana is not smoked (again in the general sense), one joint after another.

Cigarettes and their smoke has many carcinogens. The delivery system for cigarettes is very efficient, even a short inhale and quick exhalation is enough to deliver a significant dosage of nicotine. Marijuana, on the other hand needs several seconds to exchange with the alveoli.

There are hazards in almost all environments. Especially regarding children. I notice no concern for insecticide sprays, fresh paint, and common chemicals in almost all households.

Most of the research on marijuana is quite promising. Along with its positive effects on cancer treatment side effects and glaucoma, new research is finding very interesting benefits from canabinoids. Canabinoids are showing ways to stop the activity of the gene responsible for metastasis in breast and other types of cancers. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea. It also has antipsychotic benefits and appears to offer a new (potential) treatment for schizophrenia.

To put all my cards on the table, there is also some "substance induced psychosis.

Thanks for that explanation onan, I agree 100% - additional thoughts as you put all your cards on the table, I should say so too, that I believe, POT while a great substance, not all folks should smoke it, and for some it has the exact opposite effects.  Causing some to have a bad experience, or further push mental disorders into a downward spiral.  With everything comes responsibility and taking it for your own actions. 

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #126 on: December 10, 2013, 04:09:03 PM »
There are a few misconceptions here that need to be addressed. First, marijuana is not smoked like cigarettes are. Second hand smoke from cigarettes is (in the general sense) thick and prolonged. Marijuana is not smoked (again in the general sense), one joint after another.

Cigarettes and their smoke has many carcinogens. The delivery system for cigarettes is very efficient, even a short inhale and quick exhalation is enough to deliver a significant dosage of nicotine. Marijuana, on the other hand needs several seconds to exchange with the alveoli.

There are hazards in almost all environments. Especially regarding children. I notice no concern for insecticide sprays, fresh paint, and common chemicals in almost all households.

Most of the research on marijuana is quite promising. Along with its positive effects on cancer treatment side effects and glaucoma, new research is finding very interesting benefits from canabinoids. Canabinoids are showing ways to stop the activity of the gene responsible for metastasis in breast and other types of cancers. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea. It also has antipsychotic benefits and appears to offer a new (potential) treatment for schizophrenia.

To put all my cards on the table, there is also some "substance induced psychosis.

Yeah thing is Onan: Philosopher has already set his stall out and only interested in pot smoking in the home amongst children. That the incidence of death as a whole is infinitesimally small compared with tobacco or even bleach ingestion in adults, let alone children will skew his figures...So please revise your thinking and come back with less relevant and important facts and figures..It's purely the number of kids that will be harmed directly with pot smoking in the home...My guess is it won't even make statistical analysis. 



Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #127 on: December 10, 2013, 04:16:52 PM »
All of which is important but should not distract from the issue.  All issues, such as you list, aren't necessarily positioned in an order of priority.  If a child is eating Doritos and at the same time inhaling second-hand pot smoke from Mommy I am more concerned with the pot.
Why? Because the child has a Doritos Problem? or the Mom's body didn't absorb every trace of THC once she smoked the herb?  There are very very very small trace amounts of any canabanoid left over upon combustion and vaporizing.  Brings me to that, what if the person is vaporizing?  Then there is nothing but water vapor or in the case of my vaporizor (iolite) a nice smell, but no exhaled pollution....so....what do we do about the kid eating Doritos again? oh, we grow up and be parents and tell the kid they've had enough!

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #128 on: December 10, 2013, 05:25:04 PM »
There are a few misconceptions here that need to be addressed. First, marijuana is not smoked like cigarettes are. Second hand smoke from cigarettes is (in the general sense) thick and prolonged. Marijuana is not smoked (again in the general sense), one joint after another.

Cigarettes and their smoke has many carcinogens. The delivery system for cigarettes is very efficient, even a short inhale and quick exhalation is enough to deliver a significant dosage of nicotine. Marijuana, on the other hand needs several seconds to exchange with the alveoli.

There are hazards in almost all environments. Especially regarding children. I notice no concern for insecticide sprays, fresh paint, and common chemicals in almost all households.

Most of the research on marijuana is quite promising. Along with its positive effects on cancer treatment side effects and glaucoma, new research is finding very interesting benefits from canabinoids. Canabinoids are showing ways to stop the activity of the gene responsible for metastasis in breast and other types of cancers. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation, anxiety, and nausea. It also has antipsychotic benefits and appears to offer a new (potential) treatment for schizophrenia.

To put all my cards on the table, there is also some "substance induced psychosis.


Excellent points.  Thanks.


Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2013, 12:11:17 PM »
Teen parents, grandfather let toddler smoke marijuana


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/14/21905178-teen-parents-grandfather-let-toddler-smoke-marijuana-authorities-say?lite&lite=obinsite


Is that to give the implication that some might think it a good thing? Or that it's commonplace?

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2013, 12:12:39 PM »

Is that to give the implication that some might think it a good thing? Or that it's commonplace?


They thought it was a good thing.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2013, 12:18:49 PM »

They thought it was a good thing.


...and some parents think it's a good thing to jabber away on mobile phones paying no attention to what's going on outside their tin box; or allow their kids to jump around on the back seat and not have them belted in; or let their kids drink booze at aged 6; or watch hard core porn at the same age....It doesn't make them right.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2013, 12:39:09 PM »

...and some parents think it's a good thing to jabber away on mobile phones paying no attention to what's going on outside their tin box; or allow their kids to jump around on the back seat and not have them belted in; or let their kids drink booze at aged 6; or watch hard core porn at the same age....It doesn't make them right.

and some parents feel the need to marry off 8 yr old girls to adult  "men".

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2013, 01:57:54 PM »
I have 3 clients that are diagnosed with several mental illnesses. These three also are alcoholics. (I have several other clients with substance abuse issues but the 3 here are specific to this thread) All three have been abusing alcohol for more than 35 years. Yes all three are older to senior adults. Their reports are that they started drinking as young children with the encouragment of their families.

I think currently New York still considers marijuana illegal but does have some sort of decriminalization bill, it may be passed I dunno.

But the point brought seems to be more for discussion than to point out marijuana is bad... maybe I missed something.

The sad fact is there is no criterion for becoming a parent. Not the single suggestion of stability is recommended for becoming a parent. Financial wherewithal is not considered. Birth control is eschewed as a gateway to permissiveness. And due to those and other points brings us to parents that are idiots.


Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #135 on: December 23, 2013, 02:16:56 PM »
I have 3 clients that are diagnosed with several mental illnesses. These three also are alcoholics. (I have several other clients with substance abuse issues but the 3 here are specific to this thread) All three have been abusing alcohol for more than 35 years. Yes all three are older to senior adults. Their reports are that they started drinking as young children with the encouragment of their families.

I think currently New York still considers marijuana illegal but does have some sort of decriminalization bill, it may be passed I dunno.

But the point brought seems to be more for discussion than to point out marijuana is bad... maybe I missed something.

The sad fact is there is no criterion for becoming a parent. Not the single suggestion of stability is recommended for becoming a parent. Financial wherewithal is not considered. Birth control is eschewed as a gateway to permissiveness. And due to those and other points brings us to parents that are idiots.


Exactly.  I used to live in an area with a much higher percentage of people who regularly consumed pot.  Of course, the probability of children being exposed to pot is a proportionate variable, more pot smokers - more incidents of children being involved.  There were frequent cases where children were allowed and actually encouraged to use drugs, not just pot.  Several distasteful recent events included mothers blowing pot smoke into their babies' faces to get them to sleep at night.  Permissiveness and legalization is one thing, but promulgating the absolute lie that pot is "completely harmless" is self destructive, delusional, and leads to idiotic (stoned) adults who think exposing children to pot is a good thing. 

I'm not going to list references and readily available facts about the numerous carcinogens and other dependency issues surrounding pot, but I do appeal to people's reason and ability to step outside the politics of the plant and evaluate how children can and will be physically and mentally affected by inhaling pot smoke, either first hand or second hand by living with a pot smoker.

"Young people are at greater risk of developing cannabis dependency because of the association between early initiation into substance use and subsequent problems such as dependence, and the risks associated with using cannabis at a developmentally vulnerable age. In addition there is evidence that cannabis use during adolescence, at a time when the brain is still developing, may have deleterious effects on neural development and later cognitive functioning."

McLaren, J, Mattick, R P., Cannabis in Australia Use, supply, harms, and responses Monograph series No. 57 Report prepared for: Drug Strategy Branch Australian Government Department of Health and Ageing. National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre University of New South Wales, Australia.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #136 on: December 23, 2013, 02:29:41 PM »

Exactly.  I used to live in an area with a much higher percentage of people who regularly consumed pot.  Of course, the probability of children being exposed to pot is a proportionate variable, more pot smokers - more incidents of children being involved. There were frequent cases where children were allowed and actually encouraged to use drugs, not just pot.  Several distasteful recent events included mothers blowing pot smoke into their babies' faces to get them to sleep at night.  Permissiveness and legalization is one thing, but promulgating the absolute lie that pot is "completely harmless" is self destructive, delusional, and leads to idiotic (stoned) adults who think exposing children to pot is a good thing. 

I'm not going to list references and readily available facts about the numerous carcinogens and other dependency issues surrounding pot, but I do appeal to people's reason and ability to step outside the politics of the plant and evaluate how children can and will be physically and mentally affected by inhaling pot smoke, either first hand or second hand by living with a pot smoker.

But that isn't because of pot; that's because the parents are crap parents. They would just as soon as feed them coke cola instead of milk. Or Mc D instead of vegetables, fruit and decent protein. Pot in this case is the vehicle to being lazy, not the pot itself.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #137 on: December 23, 2013, 02:37:59 PM »
But that isn't because of pot; that's because the parents are crap parents. They would just as soon as feed them coke cola instead of milk. Or Mc D instead of vegetables, fruit and decent protein. Pot in this case is the vehicle to being lazy, not the pot itself.


Perhaps.  It is also conceivable that people under the influence of pot can be more prone to making stupid decisions such as blowing pot smoke at babies.  My point, however, is not so much about what causes bad parenting in this context, but what safeguards are in place to help prevent this behavior and the consequences for children.  Lauding the wonders of pot while turning a blind eye to its physical, mental and especially societal effects helps no one, especially children.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #138 on: December 23, 2013, 02:41:20 PM »

Perhaps.  It is also conceivable that people under the influence of pot can be more prone to making stupid decisions such as blowing pot smoke at babies.  My point, however, is not so much about what causes bad parenting in this context, but what safeguards are in place to help prevent this behavior and the consequences for children.  Lauding the wonders of pot while turning a blind eye to its physical, mental and especially societal effects helps no one, especially children.

You already have your answer. Look at alcohol use. Individual rights and an unwillingness to appropriate funds and grow government even more will trump your concern every day.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #139 on: December 23, 2013, 02:52:09 PM »
You already have your answer. Look at alcohol use. Individual rights and an unwillingness to appropriate funds and grow government even more will trump your concern every day.


Unfortunately, with legalization and loose controls in place to protect children, your type of services will be in high demand for decades to come.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #140 on: December 23, 2013, 02:55:42 PM »

Unfortunately, with legalization and loose controls in place to protect children, your type of services will be in high demand for decades to come.

Probably true. The sad fact is marijuana isn't even a smidgeon on the iceberg.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #141 on: December 23, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »

Unfortunately, with legalization and loose controls in place to protect children, your type of services will be in high demand for decades to come.
Maybe the weed should be free and easily accessible and you should have a medical license for parenting.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #142 on: December 23, 2013, 03:25:38 PM »


The sad fact is there is no criterion for becoming a parent. Not the single suggestion of stability is recommended for becoming a parent. Financial wherewithal is not considered. Birth control is eschewed as a gateway to permissiveness. And due to those and other points brings us to parents that are idiots.

Sorry, but exactly what do you think the 'criteria' should be, and how should their requirement be enforced ? Are you suggesting that the State should have the authority to prevent some people from reproducing and what would the mechanism be? Forced sterilization? Forced birth control?

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #143 on: December 23, 2013, 03:26:08 PM »
Probably true. The sad fact is marijuana isn't even a smidgeon on the iceberg.

"The overwhelming consensus from mental health professionals is that marijuana is not helpful—and potentially dangerous—for people with mental illness. Using marijuana can directly worsen symptoms of anxiety, depression or schizophrenia through its actions on the brain. People who smoke marijuana are also less likely to actively participate in their treatment—missing more appointments and having more difficulty with medication-adherence—than people who abstain from using this drug.

The relationship between marijuana and psychotic illness, specifically schizophrenia, has been studied for many years and is receiving increasing publicity in the mainstream media. Certainly not all people who smoke marijuana will develop schizophrenia, but people who are at risk of developing this illness—including individuals with close family relatives that have severe mental illness—will be more likely to experience psychosis if they are using marijuana. In this population of individuals, people who regularly smoke marijuana are diagnosed with schizophrenia at a younger age, hospitalized more frequently for their illness and are less likely to experience complete recovery even with high quality treatment. This is particularly concerning, as approximately one-third of people in America with schizophrenia regularly abuse marijuana."

NAMI - National Alliance on Mental Illness: Marijuana and Mental Illness

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2013, 03:30:59 PM »
Sorry, but exactly what do you think the 'criteria' should be, and how should their requirement be enforced ? Are you suggesting that the State should have the authority to prevent some people from reproducing and what would the mechanism be? Forced sterilization? Forced birth control?

Oh don't get so alarmed. If you are going to get so uppity, go volunteer at an abused children center, adopt a child that has been abused and abandoned.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2013, 03:40:30 PM »
"The overwhelming consensus from mental health professionals is that marijuana is not helpful—and potentially dangerous—for people with mental illness. Using marijuana can directly worsen symptoms of anxiety, depression or schizophrenia through its actions on the brain. People who smoke marijuana are also less likely to actively participate in their treatment—missing more appointments and having more difficulty with medication-adherence—than people who abstain from using this drug.

The relationship between marijuana and psychotic illness, specifically schizophrenia, has been studied for many years and is receiving increasing publicity in the mainstream media. Certainly not all people who smoke marijuana will develop schizophrenia, but people who are at risk of developing this illness—including individuals with close family relatives that have severe mental illness—will be more likely to experience psychosis if they are using marijuana. In this population of individuals, people who regularly smoke marijuana are diagnosed with schizophrenia at a younger age, hospitalized more frequently for their illness and are less likely to experience complete recovery even with high quality treatment. This is particularly concerning, as approximately one-third of people in America with schizophrenia regularly abuse marijuana."

NAMI - National Alliance on Mental Illness: Marijuana and Mental Illness
Those with schizophrenic tendencies should definitely not be smoking weed.  Send it to Aldous instead, and he will send it to the dude playing the dude who he plays, because we know exactly how to properly dispose of this problem  Thank you very much!

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #146 on: December 23, 2013, 03:43:50 PM »
"The overwhelming consensus from mental health professionals is that marijuana is not helpful—and potentially dangerous—for people with mental illness. Using marijuana can directly worsen symptoms of anxiety, depression or schizophrenia through its actions on the brain. People who smoke marijuana are also less likely to actively participate in their treatment—missing more appointments and having more difficulty with medication-adherence—than people who abstain from using this drug.

The relationship between marijuana and psychotic illness, specifically schizophrenia, has been studied for many years and is receiving increasing publicity in the mainstream media. Certainly not all people who smoke marijuana will develop schizophrenia, but people who are at risk of developing this illness—including individuals with close family relatives that have severe mental illness—will be more likely to experience psychosis if they are using marijuana. In this population of individuals, people who regularly smoke marijuana are diagnosed with schizophrenia at a younger age, hospitalized more frequently for their illness and are less likely to experience complete recovery even with high quality treatment. This is particularly concerning, as approximately one-third of people in America with schizophrenia regularly abuse marijuana."

NAMI - National Alliance on Mental Illness: Marijuana and Mental Illness

I can show you several studies that suggest there is relevance to certain cannabinoids helping with schizophrenia. I won't get into my problems with NAMI, but they are numerous.

First the information you suggest about marijuana and schizophrenia is ill-informed. Yes there is a small number of patients with marijuana induced psychosis. It isn't a permanent condition. Schizophrenia is a long term condition. People suffering from schizophrenia often self medicate. Marijuana is not causal to the condition.

It would help if you had a full understanding of the societal environment that many if not most schizophrenics live. Most live in substandard housing in poor neighborhoods and live on SSI benefits. That environment breeds drug dealers. And often people with limited ability to use rational thought get caught up in that environment. Add to that many illicit drugs quell the audio hallucinations that affect many schizophrenics. And they do so (unfortunately) with less uncomfortable side effects. I can't tell you how often I have to explain the negative influence of marijuana on medication. And how often it is disregarded.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #147 on: December 23, 2013, 06:31:15 PM »
Oh don't get so alarmed. If you are going to get so uppity, go volunteer at an abused children center, adopt a child that has been abused and abandoned.

Yes, yes, you're so morally superior to the rest of us, but you didn't answer my question.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #148 on: December 23, 2013, 06:42:42 PM »
Yes, yes, you're so morally superior to the rest of us, but you didn't answer my question.

Yeah that was my point. I am better than you.

Really though, I never said I had the measure of what was appropriate. But only an idiot thinks breeding without concerns of the offspring isn't an issue for society in general. And those should consider themselves inferior.

Re: States, Legalized Pot, and Children
« Reply #149 on: December 23, 2013, 06:46:57 PM »
Yes, yes, you're so morally superior to the rest of us, but you didn't answer my question.
People, this is why God made weed.  Ok guys, let's torch this.