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Author Ian Punnett  (Read 615840 times)

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Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #120 on: August 03, 2008, 02:04:13 AM »
Is Ian Punnett Spiraling Downward?

Judging from the show I'm listening to now (and about to turn off) YES!!!!!!!! May Pang and some idiotic drivel about Yoko Ono??? Who the f*** cares?


This is an off topic observation I will feel compelled to delete later,  but I really appreciate Disgusted stating his opinion correctly.

I don't know how many times people have said "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less." 

If you could care less, then why don't you flipping do so?

I have been known to bring it to the offender's attention and he looks me dead in the eye, saliva running out of the corner of his mouth and quips wittily, "Well, Camazotz, I could care less about what ya think."

And, good for you Disgusted and good for you Camazotz Automat for knowing how to speak English properly. Few people do nowadays, or at least they don't care. Now if we could just get George Snoory and everyone else in the English speaking world to stop saying "snuck" and "a phenomena". As all literate and educated people know, the past tense of "sneak" is "sneaked", and "phenomena" is the PLURAL form of the singlular "phenomenon".

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #121 on: August 03, 2008, 05:32:59 AM »
the faux pas that makes me want to puke is use of the non word irregardless.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #122 on: August 03, 2008, 09:53:57 AM »
the faux pas that makes me want to puke is use of the non word irregardless.

Yes, Michael, I agree. People who make mistakes such as these should be killed--humanely of course. I'd like to torture them, but that would be going too far. Removing these imbeciles from the gene pool might be the only way of raising the collective IQ of the USA (which judging from the fact that a chimpanzee has been our president for eight years, must be down at around 60) and saving this country from the doom that awaits it. So it's actually our patriotic duty to kill people who make mistakes in grammar, usage, punctuation, spelling and pronunciation. I suggest that all American citizens be required to pass a test such as the one below. Each sentence contains an error (one of them contains two) which test-takers would be required to identify and correct. They would not have to score 100% on all three tests--I'm not unreasonable, after all. I suggest that scores of 100% on Test One, 90% on Test Two and 80% on Test Three should be the minimum requirement for continued existence.

Test One

1.   Jim don't think I know what I'm talking about.
2.   I don't got time to iron your shirts right now.
3.   I seen it with my own eyes.
4.   My kids got in trouble, and I had to talk to there teacher.
5.   If I could of been there, I would of been there.
6.   The ship sunk after it was hit by the torpedo.
7.   My sister and her kids have went to Yellowstone twice.
8.   If he caught as good as he hits, he'd be in the majors.
9.   He was laying in the sun all day.
10.   If you don't stop listening to George Noory, your soon going to be as dumb as he is.

Test Two

11.   These kind of problems really aggravate me.
12.   I've got five boxes of book's.
13.   He started each chapter with a famous quote from Shakespeare.
14.   Maria and her took the train to Seattle last year.
15.   Our house is full of old fashion furniture.
16.   I'm going to do it irregardless of what he says.
17.   What percent of Coast to Coast listeners are as clueless as George Noory?
18.   There's nine baseball players on a baseball team.
19.   Less people live in Los Angeles than in New York.
20.   If I would've known you were coming, I would've made coffee.

Test Three

21.   The enormity of the universe is difficult to comprehend.
22.   We're chomping at the bit to get started.
23.   I'm adverse to buying cosmetics that are tested on animals.
24.   I could care less what you say about me.
25.   Either Jim or myself will call you when the work is finished.
26.   Sally had tea, and I had expresso.
27.   The book is entitled, 1001 Ways That George Noory Sucks.
28.   The teacher was very angry about him breaking the window.
29.   I felt badly about hurting her feelings.
30.   When you've finished, give the application to Malcolm or I.



Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #123 on: August 03, 2008, 10:25:50 AM »
I have to say that since taking the linguistics class my concept of what is, or is not, grammatical has changed somewhat.  I still try to follow traditional rules - but everyone has their quirks and many of them are regional. I make gross errors posting here all the time.  Sometimes I fix 'em - sometimes I don't.

Anyway - on to the test:

Test One

1.   Jim don't doesn't think I know what I'm talking about.
2.   I don't got have time to iron your shirts right now.
3.   I seen sawit with my own eyes.
4.   My kids got in into trouble, and I had to talk to there their teacher.
5.   If I could of have been there, I would of have been there.
6.   The ship sunk sank after it was hit by the torpedo.
7.   My sister and her kids have went gone to Yellowstone twice.
8.   If he caught as good well as he hits, he'd be in the majors.
9.   He was laying had lain in the sun all day. (okay - I cheated a little - no java yet)
10.   If you don't stop listening to George Noory, your you're soon going to be as dumb as he is.

Test Two

11.   These kinds of problems really aggravate me.
12.   I've got five boxes of book's. (Sounds a bit Brit - an American would likely say "I have"
13.   He started each chapter with a famous quote from Shakespeare.  Hmmm -- gotta fess up, not sure exactly what you want here.  He BEGAN?  Famous QUOTATION?
14.   Maria and her she took the train to Seattle last year.
15.   Our house is full of old fashion furniture.  I'd hyphenate old-fashioned.
16.   I'm going to do it irregardless of what he says.
17.   What percentage of Coast to Coast listeners are as clueless as George Noory?
18.  There's There are nine baseball players on a baseball team.
19.   Less Fewer people live in Los Angeles than in New York.
20.   If I'd would've known you were coming, I'd would've made coffee.

Test Three

21.   The enormity vastness of the universe is difficult to comprehend. (yes, I cheated again  ;:) )
22.   We're chomping at the bit to get started. Redundant - but so conman as to be acceptable. SORRY!
23.   I'm adverse averse to buying cosmetics that are tested on animals.
24.   I couldn't care less what you say about me.
25.   Either Jim or myself I will call you when the work is finished.
26.   Sally had tea, and I had expresso espresso.
27.   The book is entitled, 1001 Ways That George Noory Sucks.
28.   The teacher was very angry about him his breaking the window.
29.   I felt badly about hurting her feelings.
30.   When you've finished, give the application to Malcolm or I me.


Do I get to live?  ;:)


Edited to add:  I'm delighted you're here.  You're more of a nit-picking language geek than I.

Now - go pick on Max ;-)
 

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #124 on: August 03, 2008, 11:00:45 AM »
A valiant effort, EvB, but alas, no. I give you credit for getting some of the harder ones in Test Three correct, however. Perhaps I'll be merciful and allow you another chance. Then again, I may not because, I am sorry to tell you, you've committed yet another error: "I still try to follow traditional rules - but everyone has their quirks and many of them are regional." Although this is VERY common, in correct English, we traditionally say he. The more PC minded among us say he or she, which, being PC minded myself, I will allow.

Also, there is nothing regional about these errors--I am tolerant of regionalisms. All of these are matters of standard English (or not).


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #125 on: August 03, 2008, 11:03:11 AM »
Test One -alternates

3.  I have seen it with my own eyes.
6.  The ship was sunk after it was hit by the torpedo.
9.  He lay/laid in the sun all day.


Test Two

12.  I've got five boxes of books.
13.  He started each chapter with a famous quote by Shakespeare.


Test Three

22.  We're champing at the bit to get started.(GC!)


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #126 on: August 03, 2008, 11:15:12 AM »
A valiant effort, EvB, but alas, no. I give you credit for getting some of the harder ones in Test Three correct, however. Perhaps I'll be merciful and allow you another chance. Then again, I may not because, I am sorry to tell you, you've committed yet another error: "I still try to follow traditional rules - but everyone has their quirks and many of them are regional." Although this is VERY common, in correct English, we traditionally say he. The more PC minded among us say he or she, which, being PC minded myself, I will allow.

Also, there is nothing regional about these errors--I am tolerant of regionalisms. All of these are matters of standard English (or not).



I do see some of the simpler ones I missed (book's for books for example).  And, (one MAY start a sentence with and, however, etc. You won't get me to budge on that) you are quite correct that their is a awful replacement for he/she.  I wish we had a gender neutral form, not for PC reasons - but for clarity.

 I'll just call one of the "pre-need" outfits so my son won't have to arrange a funeral.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #127 on: August 03, 2008, 12:38:04 PM »
I'll just call one of the "pre-need" outfits so my son won't have to arrange a funeral.


I do hope you will consider shopping for your mortuary services at Fisher & Sons Funeral Home. 

We offer - especially for this type of situation - the option of being interred with a pristine copy of the Easton Press edition of H. W. Fowler's Modern English Usage, inscribed by Joe Bob Briggs (First edited by H. W. Fowler - Third edition edited by R.W. Burchfield.)  If you desire a more polished inscription, we will gladly persuade Joe Bob to autograph it as John Bloom - Former Foreign Film Critic for the now defunct Dallas Times Herald.

Bound in luxurious brown leather with gold page edges and gold stamping on the spine and cover, the archival quality paper will last possibly until a Christian Judgement Day or until our humble Sun effects ~Supernova.~  It is a beautiful companion for your journey into the Great Beyond:


At our discretion, we may tip in a Daniel Clowes autograph.  With Mr. Clowe's blessing, Fisher and Sons recovered several hundred extra slips originally intended for the Ghost World hardcover. 

As a special bonus, if you sign today, you will be interred with your choice of a limited edition gold gilt edged Salvador Dali Tarot Deck with suede slip case or a silver gilt edged Baphomet Tarot of the Underworld deck by H.R. Giger.  I must insert a caveat:  The Baphomet deck is a bit "left hand pathy."

It is never too early to plan your exit, but it can often turn out to be too late.


CAMAZOTZ  AUTOMAT


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #128 on: August 03, 2008, 12:44:56 PM »


One more EXCELLENT show:  Six Feet Under  Thanks for the reminder - my son owes me some DVDs.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #129 on: August 03, 2008, 12:46:28 PM »
EvB, you're earned a reprieve by confidently and quite rightly stating that there is nothing wrong with starting a sentence with a conjunction. Good writers do it all the time.

PhantasticSanShiSan, not bad, but you may want to look at #13 again. The preposition wasn't the problem. I'll post the answers late this evening.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #130 on: August 03, 2008, 01:10:36 PM »
I wish we had a gender neutral form, not for PC reasons - but for clarity.

You're exactly right, and that's the reason people use they, them and their for singular antecedents. Languages do evolve (in spite of prescriptionist grammar policemen like me), so someday this will likely be considered acceptable. That day hasn't come yet, however, and until it does, it is best to avoid this informal usage when one wants to speak or write his or her very best English. It's not always easy to avoid, though. Sometimes making a sentence plural will do the trick. What really affects me like fingernails on chalkboard is when people do this when it is completely unnecessary, for example, when the antecedent is definitely a male or female;

A man who wants to avoid prostate cancer should have their prostate checked every year.

or in situations where there is no question that a statement is in reference to a male or female. For example, in a school where all the students are girls:

Any student who wants to go on the field trip must ask their teacher to give them a permission slip to be signed by their parents.


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #131 on: August 03, 2008, 01:42:02 PM »


A man who wants to avoid prostate cancer should have their prostate checked every year.

or in situations where there is no question that a statement is in reference to a male or female. For example, in a school where all the students are girls:

Any student who wants to go on the field trip must ask their teacher to give them a permission slip to be signed by their parents.



I agree - that's just plain wrong, or rather, incorrect since I don't consider it a moral issue.

So, now, exC2Cfan - are you willing to take my "dogs" challenge?  Find it here:  http://coastgab.com/index.php/topic,375.msg2901.html#msg2901

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #132 on: August 03, 2008, 04:08:59 PM »
Test One

1.   Jim don't think I know what I'm is talking about.
2.   I don't got time to iron your god damn shirts right now.
3.   I seen it with my own eyes, home skillit.
4.   My shit-bag kids got in trouble, and I had to talk to there teacher.
5.   If I could of been there, I would of been there but I wasn't.
6.   The ship sunk after it was hit by the torpedo shaped cotton ball.
7.   My sister and her illegitimate kids have went to Yellowstone twice.
8.   If he caught as good as he hits old ladies, he'd be in the majors.  But he don't.
9.   He was laying in the sun smoking angel dust all day.
10.   If you don't stop listening to George Noory and his bevy of magical leprechauns, your soon going to be as dumb as he is.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #133 on: August 03, 2008, 04:40:50 PM »
Very creative MV!  Can you do as well with 2 and 3?    ;D

BTW, you got an "on the money" from me for turning this on it's head. 

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #134 on: August 03, 2008, 07:50:50 PM »
He Traded Funk & Wagnalls for Scotch & Soda

Michael Vandeven


is

The Illiterator

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #135 on: August 03, 2008, 09:36:11 PM »
13.  He started each chapter with a famous quote by Shakespeare.
He started the Suckmobile with a twist of Mercury's key, but when he started each chapter, the bibliography made an incredible knocking sound due to abnormal detonation.

Higher Octane grammar would later waltz into the picture when he began work on the new script - even as he gave the Fourth Wall the bird; a bird encased in (the) foil like a 1964 Fisher and Sons ... [cough] ... Swanson and Sons turkey communion dinner for Dr. Strangelove.

CAMAZOTZ  AUTOMAT



Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #136 on: August 03, 2008, 09:40:19 PM »
He Traded Funk & Wagnalls for Scotch & Soda

While Noory traded Elements of Style for Elements of Suck, performing a strange, bastard alchemy.

CAMAZOTZ  AUTOMAT



Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #137 on: August 03, 2008, 09:47:17 PM »
Test One
8.   If he caught as good as he hits old ladies, he'd be in the majors.  But he don't.


This one alone cracked me up for 5mins  ;D

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #138 on: August 03, 2008, 10:34:33 PM »
Test One

1.   Jim don't doesn't  think I know what I'm talking about.
2.   I don't got don't have [or haven't got] time to iron your shirts right now.
3.   I seen saw  it with my own eyes.
4.   My kids got in trouble, and I had to talk to there their  teacher.
5.   If I could of have  been there, I would of have  been there. [or could've/would've]
6.   The ship sunk sank  after it was hit by the torpedo.
7.   My sister and her kids have went gone  to Yellowstone twice.
8.   If he caught as good well  as he hits, he'd be in the majors.
9.   He was laying lying in the sun all day.
10.   If you don't stop listening to George Noory, your you're  soon going to be as dumb as he is.

Test Two

11.   These kind of problems really aggravate irritate  me.
12.   I've got five boxes of book's books.
13.   He started each chapter with a famous quote quotation  from Shakespeare.
14.   Maria and her she  took the train to Seattle last year.
15.   Our house is full of old fashion fashioned  furniture.
16.   I'm going to do it irregardless regardless  of what he says.
17.   What percent percentage  of Coast to Coast listeners are as clueless as George Noory?
18.   There's There are nine baseball players on a baseball team.
19.   Less Fewer people live in Los Angeles than in New York. [Use fewer for things you can count and less for things you can't count: Less money, fewer dollars.]
20.   If I would've had  known you were coming, I would've made coffee.

Test Three

21.   The enormity enormousness  of the universe is difficult to comprehend. [Enormity is only for bad things: The enormity of George Noory's ineptitude boggles by mind.]
22.   We're chomping champing  at the bit to get started.
23.   I'm adverse averse  to buying cosmetics that are tested on animals.
24.   I could couldn't care less what you say about me.
25.   Either Jim or myself I  will call you when the work is finished. [The unnecessary and incorrect use of reflexive pronouns drives myself crazy.]
26.   Sally had tea, and I had expresso espresso.
27.   The book is entitled titled, 1001 Ways That George Noory Sucks.
28.   The teacher was very angry about him his breaking the window.
29.   I felt badly bad about hurting her feelings.
30.   When you've finished, give the application to Malcolm or I me.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #139 on: August 03, 2008, 10:40:40 PM »

Okay, smart-ass  ;)  I did better than you made it sound.  Now - lemmie see you do dogs and rivers!

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #140 on: August 03, 2008, 11:47:12 PM »
Oh boy, EvB, I am totally stumped by that. The mysteries of the English language I understand, but getting people and dogs across rivers in row boats is something I've never been good at. Maybe because I'm a cat person.

Here's a question for you:

Before Mount Everest was discovered, what was the highest mountain in the world?

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2008, 12:33:54 AM »
Come on.....thats too easy.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2008, 12:35:20 AM »
Oh boy, EvB, I am totally stumped by that. The mysteries of the English language I understand, but getting people and dogs across rivers in row boats is something I've never been good at. Maybe because I'm a cat person.

Here's a question for you:

Before Mount Everest was discovered, what was the highest mountain in the world?

Mount Everest - that is, unless someone finds a higher one.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2008, 12:37:01 AM »
Mount Everest - that is, unless someone finds a higher one.

I hear there is one in the same range called A2.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2008, 01:29:58 AM »
Oh boy, EvB, I am totally stumped by that. The mysteries of the English language I understand, but getting people and dogs across rivers in row boats is something I've never been good at. Maybe because I'm a cat person.


got nothing' to do with cats - or critters of ANY kind really - but you know that.  As for being an English Geek - me 2 - BUT - my weak point (you can ask my mentor - I'll even put you in touch with him if you like  ;D ) is editing OTHER people's stuff. I feel like I'm trying to get inside their heads - and a psychic I'm not.

I'm a tech writer - which means I have skills with both analytical reasoning AND English (for some reason foreign language has always been a challenge for me - I can understand basic Spanish - but not speak it)

Anyway - what that means in my case is that I'm quite good at both analytical reasoning & English- but not truly outstanding in either.


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2008, 02:04:54 AM »
EvB,

As you might have guessed, I'm an English teacher (and ESL textbook writer).

I should have known the Mount Everest question would be easy for you and PhantasticSanShiSan. Many people are totally flummoxed by it.

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #146 on: August 04, 2008, 08:10:20 AM »
EvB,

As you might have guessed, I'm an English teacher (and ESL textbook writer).


Hmmm... I wonder if there are others here who are English teachers or professional writers/editors. I'm an English professor -- mostly tech writing and freshman and advanced comp, with some lit every few semesters. Ya know, the funny thing is that many of my students seem to think English professors are the only people who are worried about grammar and mechanics and that "normal" people just don't care. I really don't think that's the case; in my experience, the people who are ruthless about surface errors are business owners, CEOs, managers, and supervisors. This is supported by emails I receive from students in which they describe their experiences.

For example, I recently received a message from a student saying something like, "I'm applying for a job and the hiring authority sent me a sheet with all kinds of 'rules' for the application. For one thing, it says there can be no grammatical errors in my cover letter. It also says I cannot use any split infinitives. What's a split infinitive?"

I wrote back and told her that I wasn't quite sure why the hiring authority had the prohibition on split infinitives -- I didn't think anyone cared much about those nowdays... Granted, this is a pretty high-profile position, but geez... I mean, "To boldly go where no man has gone before" just does NOT sound right as "To go boldly where no man has gone before." Maybe it's just because the former was burned into my brain when I was young and impressionable. Perhaps the folks at this company expect perfection in all things language-related, but that's a pretty tall order. Or, just as likely, maybe they were just making applicants jump through hoops simply to see if they could jump through hoops.

One of the things I like about this forum is the generally high level of attention to quality writing, in terms of both content and correctness. With regard to correctness, we all make typos or have mind-glitches from time to time -- I've noticed a number of issues in my own writing when I reviewed some of my prior posts. I certainly do not mean to disparage my students when I say that I wish *they* would always write with the same quality and attention to correctness that I see in this forum...   

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #147 on: August 04, 2008, 08:59:30 AM »


One of the things I like about this forum is the generally high level of attention to quality writing, in terms of both content and correctness. With regard to correctness, we all make typos or have mind-glitches from time to time -- I've noticed a number of issues in my own writing when I reviewed some of my prior posts. I certainly do not mean to disparage my students when I say that I wish *they* would always write with the same quality and attention to correctness that I see in this forum...   


Wow- with you guys here - I'll be minding my Ps, Qs, and my QWERTY for that matter. 

I do tend to just slap stuff up here- that's the nature of these typs of forums and I'm often just posting as I take a short break from "real" writing.  Not that I don't care what I say, I very much DO.  I just don't take care the the fine details.

Siiiigh - that may be at an end.  ;:)


Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #148 on: August 04, 2008, 09:41:29 AM »

Wow- with you guys here - I'll be minding my Ps, Qs, and my QWERTY for that matter. 

I do tend to just slap stuff up here- that's the nature of these typs of forums and I'm often just posting as I take a short break from "real" writing.  Not that I don't care what I say, I very much DO.  I just don't take care the the fine details.

Siiiigh - that may be at an end.  ;:)


I'm the same way -- I just dash stuff off and submit it, typos and other surface errors be damned. I hardly ever notice problems with grammar and mechanics on this forum because when I'm here, I'm on vacation! I'm so much more interested in *what* people say than how they say it, with some exceptions -- and those exceptions in this forum are nearly always positive. There are some very creative folks here and I find myself wishing I could be 1/4 as interesting and entertaining in my own writing. I do OK with transactional kinds of writing, but that's about it. (I don't mean to imply that tech writing isn't creative -- it absolutely is -- just in a different way from what I'm talking about now...)

Re: Ian Punnett
« Reply #149 on: August 04, 2008, 09:59:10 AM »
(I don't mean to imply that tech writing isn't creative -- it absolutely is -- just in a different way from what I'm talking about now...)

I know exactly what you mean. One of my goals for "creative" writing is to publish some literary non-fiction. In fact, I have - but only shorts and only in local venues so far.

One caveat to my "I can't edit" comment earlier- that isn't strictly true.  The one form of editing at which I excel is translating geek-speak into plain English - and making it audience specific. In fact part of the project I'm working on right now - which will be submitted to the NSF as  part of a grant report (my boss' grant - not mine.  I'm not the grantsman she is but hope to pick up skills from her) aimed at encouraging at-risk (read: mostly inner city girls "of color") adolescents to improve their math skills, and, if interested, work towards a STEM fileds (fancy lingo from the feds for Science, Technology Math and Engineering careers)

This is a work in progress - though i'd better progress my ass off today since I'm presenting this as a draft tomorrow and to a group of girls from Holyoke Friday.  I'm not sure when the NSF report goes in, but soon.)

Anyway - if you are interested - here is where I store my prototypes on my own host.  They're transfered to the UMass Amherst Center for Knowledge Communication server when they're done. 

http://wayang.elbarney.com/wayangindex.html

The colors are a bit wild - but remember that the primary target is teens, and the design is supposed to suggest Indonesia.   You know, one of those countries where hot pink is their navy blue  ;:)