Author US Navy Japanese container ship collision  (Read 2529 times)

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Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 12:47:50 PM »
Here is the track of the container ship involved

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 12:54:32 PM »
If you zoom in it appears the Container Ship veered to port slightly before what is presumably the collision


Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 03:32:23 PM »
If you zoom in it appears the Container Ship veered to port slightly before what is presumably the collision

Thank you Walks, I was looking for this.  Guy on tv said the container ship was maneuvering wildly but that appears to be post-collision.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2017, 06:56:26 PM »
Ahoy  ;) Thanks for the tracking info. Odd. I'm not sure if Capt Sweeney has had a falling-out with C2C or it is simply because he refused to transport a container of "supplements" for Norry's side projects but now would be a good time for an update from our favorite Capt from Spokane. He, actually, is educated and trained on the subject of his commentary (maybe another reason why C2C doesn't have him on any more) and big on US flagged vessels and safety measures and seaman's rights. I also wonder about the computer tech. A lot of the modern vessels are, basically, remote controlled by computers and the home-office can also be checking operations (and maybe override even?) Could be hacked? Strange that a collision would occur in good weather, though stuff happens, but a Naval vessel, at least, one would assume would have the most modern technology. Inquiring minds want to know more details.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 09:20:24 PM »
Ahoy  ;) Thanks for the tracking info. Odd. I'm not sure if Capt Sweeney has had a falling-out with C2C or it is simply because he refused to transport a container of "supplements" for Norry's side projects but now would be a good time for an update from our favorite Capt from Spokane. He, actually, is educated and trained on the subject of his commentary (maybe another reason why C2C doesn't have him on any more) and big on US flagged vessels and safety measures and seaman's rights. I also wonder about the computer tech. A lot of the modern vessels are, basically, remote controlled by computers and the home-office can also be checking operations (and maybe override even?) Could be hacked? Strange that a collision would occur in good weather, though stuff happens, but a Naval vessel, at least, one would assume would have the most modern technology. Inquiring minds want to know more details.


Well lets look into it a little bit then Albrecht. 

I hope it isn't another case of gross command incompetence like the USS Potter incident from a few years back.   The Navy released the audio from the Potter's bridge and it was horrific.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 09:56:46 PM »

Well lets look into it a little bit then Albrecht. 

I hope it isn't another case of gross command incompetence like the USS Potter incident from a few years back.   The Navy released the audio from the Potter's bridge and it was horrific.
Wow. That is crazy. I hadn't heard that audio. Thanks. I'm trying to recall.... Recently some radio ranter or poster was mentioning something like now "officers won't go outside at night in the Navy" and recruits are gang-members etc and not qualified and some other military units in the Army 'won't protect Americans if civil war happens'' because so many foreign/etc immigrants. Can't remember who. Could've been nutso Dietrich but I think I heard same other places though less inflammatory (like gang symbols spray-painted etc in Iraq even, passes for criminal records or gang tats, drug dealing and immigrant smuggling, etc.)

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 09:57:05 PM »
So the USS Fitzgerald is an Arleigh Burke destroyer - which means its a good, solid ship - perhaps the last decent class of surface warfare ships the US Navy has received.  It was not likely to have had any weird malfunctions like the awful new LCS ships or the new Zumwalt class destroyer.

Radar can act strangely in heavy fog but its my understanding that it was clear when then incident happened.   The Fitzgerald was struck on the starboard side and obviously suffered a heavy blow in the collision:



The Container ship ACX Crystal shows damage on the fore port side:


Typically the ship to starboard has the right of way so  a quick glance of the photos may indicate the Naval vessel was at fault.  The incident happened around
2AM so the Container Ship almost certainly was on autopilot with just a Mate on watch and most likely the Fitzgerald's senior leadership was asleep as well.
The 'missing' sailors apparently have been found in flooded compartments below decks - certainly some one out on deck at the time of the impact could have been knocked overboard but seven seemed like a really high number to be out at 2AM.   




Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2017, 10:05:22 PM »
Here is a good shot of the Fitzgerald flying semaphore flags after the accident



If we use the decoder ring 
It appears we see - You are running into danger, I am disabled, I need a tugboat,  and keep the hell away from me

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2017, 10:06:08 PM »
So the USS Fitzgerald is an Arleigh Burke destroyer - which means its a good, solid ship - perhaps the last decent class of surface warfare ships the US Navy has received.  It was not likely to have had any weird malfunctions like the awful new LCS ships or the new Zumwalt class destroyer.

Radar can act strangely in heavy fog but its my understanding that it was clear when then incident happened.   The Fitzgerald was struck on the starboard side and obviously suffered a heavy blow in the collision:



The Container ship ACX Crystal shows damage on the fore port side:


Typically the ship to starboard has the right of way so  a quick glance of the photos may indicate the Naval vessel was at fault.  The incident happened around
2AM so the Container Ship almost certainly was on autopilot with just a Mate on watch and most likely the Fitzgerald's senior leadership was asleep as well.
The 'missing' sailors apparently have been found in flooded compartments below decks - certainly some one out on deck at the time of the impact could have been knocked overboard but seven seemed like a really high number to be out at 2AM.
News alert now says there will be a "serious investigation." A lot of things odd. It has been proven (at least in theory) at various hacker "conferences" that certain systems (planes, cars, etc) can be hacked. Various military units have, likely, even more capabilities.  This whole thing could be some "human error" but still I wonder if a 'test' or even a provocation or warning?

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2017, 10:13:48 PM »
So the USS Fitzgerald is an Arleigh Burke destroyer - which means its a good, solid ship - perhaps the last decent class of surface warfare ships the US Navy has received.  It was not likely to have had any weird malfunctions like the awful new LCS ships or the new Zumwalt class destroyer.

Radar can act strangely in heavy fog but its my understanding that it was clear when then incident happened.   The Fitzgerald was struck on the starboard side and obviously suffered a heavy blow in the collision:



The Container ship ACX Crystal shows damage on the fore port side:


Typically the ship to starboard has the right of way so  a quick glance of the photos may indicate the Naval vessel was at fault.  The incident happened around
2AM so the Container Ship almost certainly was on autopilot with just a Mate on watch and most likely the Fitzgerald's senior leadership was asleep as well.
The 'missing' sailors apparently have been found in flooded compartments below decks - certainly some one out on deck at the time of the impact could have been knocked overboard but seven seemed like a really high number to be out at 2AM.

Thanks, I hadn't seen the damaged container ship yet.  Putting the two booboos together with the track, couldn't the two ships have been traveling sort of parallel and the container ship veered into the destroyer?

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 10:18:39 PM »
So let's take a look at the Fitzgerald's chain of command. 

Looks like her skipper is Commander Bryce Benson and he took over command of the vessel on May 30th of this year.  Here is cutting a cake with the former skipper at the change of command ceremony:


Looking at this Bio it appears this is his first command.  I am no expert on naval careers but it seems like he's had a significant amount of shore time but he should be familiar enough with the ship as he was XO on her from November 2015 up until taking over as skipper.

The current Exec looks to have had good experience as well and as one would expect the Command Master Chief would appear to be a real pro - lots of hash marks on his right sleeve.


Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 10:23:09 PM »

Typically the ship to starboard has the right of way so  a quick glance of the photos may indicate the Naval vessel was at fault.  The incident happened around
2AM so the Container Ship almost certainly was on autopilot with just a Mate on watch and most likely the Fitzgerald's senior leadership was asleep as well.
The 'missing' sailors apparently have been found in flooded compartments below decks - certainly some one out on deck at the time of the impact could have been knocked overboard but seven seemed like a really high number to be out at 2AM.

I thought the rule of the sea was it is the responsibility of the more maneuverable vessel to get out of the way of the less maneuverable vessel.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 10:28:35 PM »
I thought the rule of the sea was it is the responsibility of the more maneuverable vessel to get out of the way of the less maneuverable vessel.

Well then certainly the Destroyer is at fault.  If someone wants some reading material to put them to sleep I think these are the rules:

http://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/COLREG-1972.pdf

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2017, 10:32:59 PM »
Thanks, I hadn't seen the damaged container ship yet.  Putting the two booboos together with the track, couldn't the two ships have been traveling sort of parallel and the container ship veered into the destroyer?

Well looking at the track from this post it seems like most of the traffic heading into Tokyo/Yokohama/Yokosuka  etc seems to be flowing north of Oshima island.  If we assume the Fitzgerald was doing the same the damage points kind of match up nicely. 

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2017, 10:34:54 PM »
Seems like the dudes over on this board know what the hell they are talking about:

http://forum.gcaptain.com/t/uss-fitzgerald-collides-with-acx-crystal-off-coast-of-japan/45129/51

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2017, 10:37:37 PM »
Well then certainly the Destroyer is at fault.  If someone wants some reading material to put them to sleep I think these are the rules:

http://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/COLREG-1972.pdf
And
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ

The rules, laws, and various treaties about liability and admiralty stuff is also fascinating/go-to-sleep, depending on one's interest. Really the first (ok ok Gilgamesh and various Bible stuff) international conventions and laws and so important and interesting how even warring tribes/countries/people come up with 'agreements' or things way before the newer international stuff of today. (It is still fought over, by the way, every day to the political 'law of the sea' controversy to the more military/economic stuff like China etc trying to expand rights.) And, later, recognizable symbols etc for communication. Also some of the first "worker rights" stuff was maritime. And even 'international passports' (much later.)


Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2017, 10:59:27 PM »
Well looking at the track from this post it seems like most of the traffic heading into Tokyo/Yokohama/Yokosuka  etc seems to be flowing north of Oshima island.  If we assume the Fitzgerald was doing the same the damage points kind of match up nicely.

Ah I see what you mean, that must be it.  Though the collision point is kind of far from what appears to be the lane.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2017, 11:53:19 PM »
It would be nice to see the below the waterline damage.  Any chance she'll hitch a dry ride home like USS Cole received?

RIP to the service members.

peace
Hog

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2017, 11:58:13 PM »
It would be nice to see the below the waterline damage.  Any chance she'll hitch a dry ride home like USS Cole received?

RIP to the service members.

peace
Hog

If the bow of the cargo ship is shaped like the one below you can image the damage.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 12:00:52 AM »
If the bow of the cargo ship is shaped like the one below you can image the damage.
I know the design is for efficiency but it also reminds one of ancient Mediterranean war vessels intending to ram!

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2017, 05:36:49 PM »
I'm now seeing reports online of an email from a person who claims to be the mother of a sailor on the Fitzgerald. She says a communication from her son claims the container ship is owned by someone in the Philippines. He says it had both its running lights and transponder off when it rammed (his word) the Navy ship.  The mother compared the incident to the recent ISIS murders using cars.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2017, 10:51:54 PM »
Now it appears there might a one hour discrepancy in the time of the collision and the time it was reported.
Quote
Washington (CNN)Nearly an hour passed before the crew of a container ship reported its collision with a US destroyer, according to the Japanese coast guard, raising more questions about the sequence of events that ultimately led to the death of seven American sailors.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/politics/uss-fitzgerald-crash-timing/index.html

Maybe just a time zone thing in the records?  UTC should smooth all that out.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2017, 11:26:16 PM »

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2017, 11:39:47 PM »
Interesting read here:
http://gcaptain.com/uss-fitzgerald-fault/
Ahoy! I still want Capt. Kelly Sweeney's commentary on the incident but that was an excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2017, 08:40:04 PM »
Latest news is that Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr successfully saved a number of sailors lives before returning
to a flooding compartment which subsequently had the water tight hatch closed.   Very brave man.........

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6





Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2017, 08:45:34 PM »
Ahoy! I still want Capt. Kelly Sweeney's commentary on the incident but that was an excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

I think George told Corsi last night that Sweeney is coming on C2C tonight.

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2017, 08:47:38 PM »
I think George told Corsi last night that Sweeney is coming on C2C tonight.
Yeah, I like the cut of his jib and find him to be a fun guest and has real credentials will plan to listen. Ahoy!

Re: US Navy Japanese container ship collision
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2017, 08:56:24 PM »
Latest news is that Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr successfully saved a number of sailors lives before returning
to a flooding compartment which subsequently had the water tight hatch closed.   Very brave man.........

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-sailor-sacrificed-himself-save-20-lives-the-uss-fitzgerald-2017-6


Yes, hopefully he will get a vessel named after him and some posthumous decoration. And we figure out why/how this accident (presumably) happened.