Author RELIGION Thread  (Read 13063 times)

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Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #120 on: October 30, 2016, 11:08:12 AM »
You sound like one of those Ronald Firbank types who like the dressing up and the smell of incense but aren't all that keen on the doctrinal obligations. I smell the stench of hypocrisy, ranker than a dead weasel. You are an Anthony Blancheflower, you pompous dandy.

I don't see how it eases the pain of death if you are worried you might end up in hell. The sort of comforting bromides you have in mind are only suitable for children, not adults. There's no lack of joy or solemnity involved in life simply because you don't accept the fairy tale interpretation of it. It's liberating more than anything else. Too many people don't treat life here with the importance it deserves because they think there is something else that's going to be better. If they realised that this was all there is then they might value their time rather than fritter it away on trivial disputes that don't matter a jot.

Do you have even remotely sane evidence for this claim or did you pull this togheter with your morning wax from your ears.
You making so many claims with such confidence that you know what you are talking about ,yet you can not answer simple question where the first
chemical come from that it started your insane evolution roller coaster ??
Oh, wait, one chemical is not enough to start life it need it at least two chemicals to mix togheter to start evolutionary process.
So Mr. know it all -where did they come from?

Perhaps from your ear wax...please don't embarrass yourself and if you have no idea about something there is no need to comment on it
just to sound smart..because at least in case of this topic it has totally the opposite effect .
Just say it .."I"m clueless about it" and that way your reputation will be intact, but now your comments are as valid as used tea leafs...

Sometimes SV is wiser to listen and to ask questions and learn instead of commenting just for the sake of commenting

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2016, 11:17:29 AM »
So Mr. know it all -where did they come from?

OK, the chemicals were planted on Earth by a large invisible kangaroo called The Pooka McPhillimey. That's how it started. But, before he departed to reascend to Heaven he took a massive marsupial dump, and the people who believe in the god bullshit descended from that. Coincidentally they also tend to have about the same IQ as kangaroo shit. Happy? I bet you must be feeling pretty silly now.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2016, 11:21:31 AM »
Do you have even remotely sane evidence for this claim or did you pull this togheter with your morning wax from your ears.
You making so many claims with such confidence that you know what you are talking about ,yet you can not answer simple question where the first
chemical come from that it started your insane evolution roller coaster ??
Oh, wait, one chemical is not enough to start life it need it at least two chemicals to mix togheter to start evolutionary process.
So Mr. know it all -where did they come from?

Perhaps from your ear wax...please don't embarrass yourself and if you have no idea about something there is no need to comment on it
just to sound smart..because at least in case of this topic it has totally the opposite effect .
Just say it .."I"m clueless about it" and that way your reputation will be intact, but now your comments are as valid as used tea leafs...

Sometimes SV is wiser to listen and to ask questions and learn instead of commenting just for the sake of commenting

I have a friend who was a school friend, left, joined the Royal Navy. When he left that he took himself through university and gained a degree. He left the UK, got a job in Texas, married an American woman, and lives in Austin.

We last met in 2009 at a school reunion, but it was if we'd talked the day before. He's also a committed Christian. However, you'd never know it, and he doesn't try to convert me or others. Doesn't tell athiests (me), I'm wrong, or that he's right. He doesn't think 'God' made the world in six days or that Darwin and other scientists are deluded in the theory of evolution. In short, he has no axe to grind, or need to be 'right'.

Take heed.


Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2016, 11:37:50 AM »
I suppose she must have been having an off-day when she came up with you. I hope you kept the receipt.

SV, your answer is so lame that I don't even know why I'm tainting my self with responding to it.
If that's all that you can master that means that I indeed managed to provide you with overwhelming task to reach higher
levels of analytical thinking..and you failed to reach it

Don't despair Sir, perhaps one day in the next million years your Mother Evolution will provide you with enough brain cells
so you can start contemplating those very actually basic ideas that will lead you to enlightenment,..but for now keep your
comfortable nest of ignorance as your womb of refuge from logic.

Let me provide you /and others who will read here/ with few words of wisdom:

"Do not give that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine, lest they trample them under their feet,
and turn around and tear you in pieces 
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."  -(Matthew 7:6)

The word "pearls" in Matthew 7 is symbolic of, or a metaphor for, godly wisdom and the salvation brought by his kingdom.
Wisdom is found using the Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who obey him (Acts 5:32).
God's precepts are written in the Holy Scriptures. If one has his Spirit, one can study his Word (His Precepts) for Holy knowledge,
and upon this foundation of the Holy Spirit and Holy knowledge, the Eternal will then grant Holy understanding.

If we take our wisdom and throw it all around without knowing whether it might fall before dogs (an impure or self-righteous heart)
or swine (someone who is considered unclean), Jesus warns us that they will likely tear us to pieces
(they would twist and distort what is said then come after us).

God tells us in the book of Proverbs that there are times when we should be silent and times when we should respond directly to others
(especially about God's truth).
Jesus sometimes answered the questions and accusations thrown his way by the religious leaders of his day (e.g. Matthew 12:1-8)
and sometimes refused to respond to their inquiries (e.g. Matthew 21:23 -27).




Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2016, 11:40:11 AM »
OK, the chemicals were planted on Earth by a large invisible kangaroo called The Pooka McPhillimey. That's how it started. But, before he departed to reascend to Heaven he took a massive marsupial dump, and the people who believe in the god bullshit descended from that. Coincidentally they also tend to have about the same IQ as kangaroo shit. Happy? I bet you must be feeling pretty silly now.

Yes, indeed I do feel pretty silly now for thinking that you might actually be intelligent...

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #125 on: October 30, 2016, 11:42:08 AM »
Incidentally: why has a religious thread been put in the politics section? Freudian slip?

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #126 on: October 30, 2016, 11:46:20 AM »
SV, your answer is so lame that I don't even know why I'm tainting my self with responding to it.
If that's all that you can master that means that I indeed managed to provide you with overwhelming task to reach higher
levels of analytical thinking..and you failed to reach it

Don't despair Sir, perhaps one day in the next million years your Mother Evolution will provide you with enough brain cells
so you can start contemplating those very actually basic ideas that will lead you to enlightenment,..but for now keep your
comfortable nest of ignorance as your womb of refuge from logic.

Let me provide you /and others who will read here/ with few words of wisdom:

"Do not give that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine, lest they trample them under their feet,
and turn around and tear you in pieces 
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."  -(Matthew 7:6)

The word "pearls" in Matthew 7 is symbolic of, or a metaphor for, godly wisdom and the salvation brought by his kingdom.
Wisdom is found using the Holy Spirit, which is only given to those who obey him (Acts 5:32).
God's precepts are written in the Holy Scriptures. If one has his Spirit, one can study his Word (His Precepts) for Holy knowledge,
and upon this foundation of the Holy Spirit and Holy knowledge, the Eternal will then grant Holy understanding.

If we take our wisdom and throw it all around without knowing whether it might fall before dogs (an impure or self-righteous heart)
or swine (someone who is considered unclean), Jesus warns us that they will likely tear us to pieces
(they would twist and distort what is said then come after us).

God tells us in the book of Proverbs that there are times when we should be silent and times when we should respond directly to others
(especially about God's truth).
Jesus sometimes answered the questions and accusations thrown his way by the religious leaders of his day (e.g. Matthew 12:1-8)
and sometimes refused to respond to their inquiries (e.g. Matthew 21:23 -27).


Actually no. All of the above was written down about forty/fifty years after the death of Jesus. I don't know about you, but I can't remember exactly what I said yesterday, let alone what someone said, whom I've never met, who died before I was born.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #127 on: October 30, 2016, 11:52:16 AM »
Actually no. All of the above was written down about forty/fifty years after the death of Jesus. I don't know about you, but I can't remember exactly what I said yesterday, let alone what someone said, whom I've never met, who died before I was born.

You just have to access the Akashic records. The information is all there as will be confirmed by Richard C. Hoagland once he has access to the harcodoy archives that have been left for us in the libraries on Pluto.

Oops. Sorry wrong thread.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #128 on: October 30, 2016, 11:58:32 AM »
I have a friend who was a school friend, left, joined the Royal Navy. When he left that he took himself through university and gained a degree. He left the UK, got a job in Texas, married an American woman, and lives in Austin.

We last met in 2009 at a school reunion, but it was if we'd talked the day before. He's also a committed Christian. However, you'd never know it, and he doesn't try to convert me or others. Doesn't tell athiests (me), I'm wrong, or that he's right. He doesn't think 'God' made the world in six days or that Darwin and other scientists are deluded in the theory of evolution. In short, he has no axe to grind, or need to be 'right'.

Take heed.


I don' t need to take your 'heed' - for several reasons.

1. I don't try to convert you or others, I'm sharing my views, you reading them -and sadly mistakenly it is you who is arriving
at those false conclusions.
2. I never said here that I believe that GOD created The Word in six days,..you just pulled that from your ears with the ear wax
same as SV did with his unsupported oration.
3. pud.. you just reached new level of lunacy -so if someone is saying something that is irritating your sense of delusional security
in your perception they have no right to express their opinions because you very skilfully will attack them and accuse them of having "axe" to grind.

I understand that you must feel guilty of some kind off transgressions, since your opposition to discussion how life started and existance of Creator GOD
or is it way beyond your intellectual capacity ..you sounding very insecure in your outrage in regards to my opinions
 

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #129 on: October 30, 2016, 12:00:57 PM »
Incidentally: why has a religious thread been put in the politics section? Freudian slip?

Why don't you report that to MV if it bothers you so much..

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #130 on: October 30, 2016, 12:05:17 PM »
Actually no. All of the above was written down about forty/fifty years after the death of Jesus. I don't know about you, but I can't remember exactly what I said yesterday, let alone what someone said, whom I've never met, who died before I was born.

pud, I don't understand who you trying to be in this post, a fool or a comedian ??
how come you remember things that were said by those who died long ago but didn't step on your questionable 'values'
seems quite hypocritical if you ask me

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #131 on: October 30, 2016, 12:53:08 PM »
I give you great credit, theOne. You are willing to bear the slings and arrows of all the usual BG atheists. I speak privately with a number of Christians on this forum, and not one will come forward to defend their faith publicly. No worries;I understand.

I`m a firm believer in Matthew 10:33:

         But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.



You DO NOT want to be THAT person!

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #132 on: October 30, 2016, 01:04:37 PM »
You sound like one of those Ronald Firbank types who like the dressing up and the smell of incense but aren't all that keen on the doctrinal obligations. I smell the stench of hypocrisy, ranker than a dead weasel. You are an Anthony Blancheflower, you pompous dandy.

I don't see how it eases the pain of death if you are worried you might end up in hell. The sort of comforting bromides you have in mind are only suitable for children, not adults. There's no lack of joy or solemnity involved in life simply because you don't accept the fairy tale interpretation of it. It's liberating more than anything else. Too many people don't treat life here with the importance it deserves because they think there is something else that's going to be better. If they realised that this was all there is then they might value their time rather than fritter it away on trivial disputes that don't matter a jot.

Hahaha hypocritical pompous dandy I own completely, as I contemplate the lily in my medieval hand.  But we are down to charges of wasting time, so I shall sum up:

The idea that we can walk out our front doors every morning with a closed, comprehensive intellectual system based on materialism is a modern one, and has been achieved only by jettisoning questions of duty and purpose, or reducing them to interpersonal ethics.  This is a cheap substitute for the rich inner life our ancestors enjoyed.  It is attractive because it is comprehensive, but it is comprehensive because it is simple.  And uninspiring -- you guys really need to come up with some better eucharist than the daily trudge to the recycle bin.

Where you see hypocrisy, I see the inevitable consequence of trying to make absolute truths that spring from a universal Intelligence, in my poor understanding of them, fit my imperfect world.  If everything suddenly popped into place, I'd be sure I'd done something wrong.  Thankfully, my world-view (as you call it) is a great, cluttered library of often-contradictory sources I consult to inflame or console as needed -- it is glorious.  Yours is a powerpoint presentation.

It is a very strange creature indeed who will abandon the contemplation of the Divine, to which he set his brightest intellects for centuries, just because his new toys don't show him some kindly father figure peeping back at him from a distant Kolob.

You will note (if you step back a minute) that, though I've adopted rhetorical excesses here for entertainment's sake, the posture is one of humility -- I'm not the one chucking Milton out as a childish fable.  O tremble, Shreddy, tremble for that arrogance!

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #133 on: October 30, 2016, 01:12:05 PM »
Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis is a result of radio broadcasts from WW II in England. I am sure that YP or SV could do better justices as to the history and what positive effects these broadcasts had during the dire times of the bombings of London and that land that had been thought of as an invincible fortress protected by a great navy.

You can find copies all over the web but here is a link to a free pdf ebook version.

https://www.dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #134 on: October 30, 2016, 01:18:36 PM »
I give you great credit, theOne. You are willing to bear the slings and arrows of all the usual BG atheists. I speak privately with a number of Christians on this forum, and not one will come forward to defend their faith publicly. No worries;I understand.

I`m a firm believer in Matthew 10:33:

         But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.



You DO NOT want to be THAT person!

Hmmm, :) , very interesting to hear from you FTF  ,Thank You
Looks that you FTF are one of those who are sophisticated /and confident enough/ who can put aside our quite 'sharp' exchange
in other threads and you have no problem visiting here and posting your comment
It takes different approach to life /and to this forum/ than just acting butt hurt and taking you toys from the play box as quite many here
practise when they don't agree with someone on other topics

Thanks

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #135 on: October 30, 2016, 01:19:32 PM »
pud, I don't understand who you trying to be in this post, a fool or a comedian ??
how come you remember things that were said by those who died long ago but didn't step on your questionable 'values'
seems quite hypocritical if you ask me

I don't necessarilly remember, but I do have the benefit of being able to refer to archived papers/anecdotes/technical references...the stories in the bible are fables and stories passed down verbally. And you think a few blokes had the empirical evidence to support what they then put into written form? Not to mention that over the centuries since circa AD40-50, the bible has been altered in order to support the prevailing theology. Who thought for instance that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were or weren't married? Its a debate theologians argue now; so that suggests the current bible isn't the definitive article.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #136 on: October 30, 2016, 01:20:56 PM »
Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis is a result of radio broadcasts from WW II in England. I am sure that YP or SV could do better justices as to the history and what positive effects these broadcasts had during the dire times of the bombings of London and that land that had been thought of as an invincible fortress protected by a great navy.

You can find copies all over the web but here is a link to a free pdf ebook version.

https://www.dacc.edu/assets/pdfs/PCM/merechristianitylewis.pdf

Christianity saved my life and made me whole again. I was a horrid person with murderous proclivities, drowning in a sea of evil until Jesus took hold of me.

I can`t worry about the unbelievers, but I do pray for all of them.  You seek life insurance...health insurance? How about ETERNAL LIFE insurance?  8)

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #137 on: October 30, 2016, 01:21:57 PM »
Hmmm, :) , very interesting to hear from you FTF  ,Thank You
Looks that you FTF are one of those who are sophisticated /and confident enough/ who can put aside our quite 'sharp' exchange
in other threads and you have no problem visiting here and posting your comment
It takes different approach to life /and to this forum/ than just acting butt hurt and taking you toys from the play box as quite many here
practise when they don't agree with someone on other topics

Thanks

Absolutely, BROTHER

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2016, 01:24:02 PM »
Absolutely, BROTHER

You two need a room booking?  :)

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #139 on: October 30, 2016, 01:28:30 PM »
You two need a room booking?  :)

Now now. It`s just one follower of Christ acknowledging another. Not many of out there these days, so it`s a bit comforting to come across one.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #140 on: October 30, 2016, 01:52:08 PM »
I don't necessarilly remember, but I do have the benefit of being able to refer to archived papers/anecdotes/technical references...the stories in the bible are fables and stories passed down verbally. And you think a few blokes had the empirical evidence to support what they then put into written form? Not to mention that over the centuries since circa AD40-50, the bible has been altered in order to support the prevailing theology. Who thought for instance that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were or weren't married? Its a debate theologians argue now; so that suggests the current bible isn't the definitive article.

hahaha, you pud are funny sometimes I must admit ,lol
But let's put Bible aside, let's ignore it for time being -let's talk logic with out referencing /by me or by you/ to The Bible and let's go
on a 'step by step' discovery trip.

But in cases like yourself I must put a ring in your nose to guide you so you can focus on the topic,..
and let's start to establish /no Bible involved/ was the life on Earth /and in ALL of the Cosmos/ created by an Intelligence that come forth
from Intelligent being [GOD] ,or did life is a result of a evolutionary processes.
Now I claim that Intelligent being GOD created it.
You pud are denying existence of GOD  -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,.. {i will refer you now to my previous posts on that question} I'm 99% sure that you read them.

You see pud starting at the beginning we will avoid unnecessary "I'm smarter than you" game
You explain that in logical way and we will take it to the next stage,... but for now you are just bouncing like a ball inside of an empty cage

Let's skip all that Bible was altered, scribes were stupid naive uneducated fools, etc-etc...
As I said before,GOD existed-exists-and will exist with or with out Bible, so let's talk about possibility of GOD being responsible
for creating ALL life, or for the evolutionary processes being responsible for it.

Now pud give me you best shot,..but please stay focus on the main question:
" -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,..
"

...but pud,don't sway to the sides or I will have to pull on the nose ring that I installed in your nose few moments ago, remember?

Take your time pud, think about it, pray for wisdom to Almighty GOD, ask your Mother/Father Evolution -do whatever it takes to
come back with smart intelligent answer...don't rush take you time -this might be very revolutionary time in your life ,pud,
/and in lives of others who are thinking same as pud or SV/
 
     

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2016, 01:55:26 PM »
I don't want to specify how many posts back I had to scroll to find someone in this thread who isn't on my /ignore list, but it borders on Antediluvian.

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2016, 01:59:22 PM »
I don't want to specify how many posts back I had to scroll to find someone in this thread who isn't on my /ignore list, but it borders on Antediluvian.

My little broheim...nobody cares what you think or say. #Sad. :(

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2016, 02:01:36 PM »
I don't want to specify how many posts back I had to scroll to find someone in this thread who isn't on my /ignore list, but it borders on Antediluvian.

Welcome to the Paradise Jackstar - you may confess your sins now /assuming you have any/ -you can confess them in silence ,no need to expose
to others your transgressions ,lol

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2016, 02:01:59 PM »
hahaha, you pud are funny sometimes I must admit ,lol
But let's put Bible aside, let's ignore it for time being -let's talk logic with out referencing /by me or by you/ to The Bible and let's go
on a 'step by step' discovery trip.

But in cases like yourself I must put a ring in your nose to guide you so you can focus on the topic,..
and let's start to establish /no Bible involved/ was the life on Earth /and in ALL of the Cosmos/ created by an Intelligence that come forth
from Intelligent being [GOD] ,or did life is a result of a evolutionary processes.
Now I claim that Intelligent being GOD created it.
You pud are denying existence of GOD  -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,.. {i will refer you now to my previous posts on that question} I'm 99% sure that you read them.

You see pud starting at the beginning we will avoid unnecessary "I'm smarter than you" game
You explain that in logical way and we will take it to the next stage,... but for now you are just bouncing like a ball inside of an empty cage

Let's skip all that Bible was altered, scribes were stupid naive uneducated fools, etc-etc...
As I said before,GOD existed-exists-and will exist with or with out Bible, so let's talk about possibility of GOD being responsible
for creating ALL life, or for the evolutionary processes being responsible for it.

Now pud give me you best shot,..but please stay focus on the main question:
" -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,..
"

...but pud,don't sway to the sides or I will have to pull on the nose ring that I installed in your nose few moments ago, remember?

Take your time pud, think about it, pray for wisdom to Almighty GOD, ask your Mother/Father Evolution -do whatever it takes to
come back with smart intelligent answer...don't rush take you time -this might be very revolutionary time in your life ,pud,
/and in lives of others who are thinking same as pud or SV/
 
   

How do I prove a negative? Nothing I say or anyone says will sway your beliefs. Or rather, faith. So why waste the pixels?

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2016, 02:03:02 PM »
nobody cares what you think or say.




#Sad. :(

Your attempt at implication reveals a lot about your character. Did you ever get the acknowledgement from your parents that you plainly have sought?

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2016, 02:03:40 PM »
hahaha, you pud are funny sometimes I must admit ,lol
But let's put Bible aside, let's ignore it for time being -let's talk logic with out referencing /by me or by you/ to The Bible and let's go
on a 'step by step' discovery trip.

But in cases like yourself I must put a ring in your nose to guide you so you can focus on the topic,..
and let's start to establish /no Bible involved/ was the life on Earth /and in ALL of the Cosmos/ created by an Intelligence that come forth
from Intelligent being [GOD] ,or did life is a result of a evolutionary processes.
Now I claim that Intelligent being GOD created it.
You pud are denying existence of GOD  -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,.. {i will refer you now to my previous posts on that question} I'm 99% sure that you read them.

You see pud starting at the beginning we will avoid unnecessary "I'm smarter than you" game
You explain that in logical way and we will take it to the next stage,... but for now you are just bouncing like a ball inside of an empty cage

Let's skip all that Bible was altered, scribes were stupid naive uneducated fools, etc-etc...
As I said before,GOD existed-exists-and will exist with or with out Bible, so let's talk about possibility of GOD being responsible
for creating ALL life, or for the evolutionary processes being responsible for it.

Now pud give me you best shot,..but please stay focus on the main question:
" -so please pud rise to the challenge and tell me how the life started,how the first elements
that become building blocks of life come to existence,..
"

...but pud,don't sway to the sides or I will have to pull on the nose ring that I installed in your nose few moments ago, remember?

Take your time pud, think about it, pray for wisdom to Almighty GOD, ask your Mother/Father Evolution -do whatever it takes to
come back with smart intelligent answer...don't rush take you time -this might be very revolutionary time in your life ,pud,
/and in lives of others who are thinking same as pud or SV/
 
   


My brother, you might like this. It`s convincing to even the most ardent atheist.


Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2016, 02:04:35 PM »



Your attempt at implication reveals a lot about your character. Did you ever get the acknowledgement from your parents that you plainly have sought?

Better turn, before you burn. Just sayin` 8)

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #148 on: October 30, 2016, 02:07:49 PM »
How do I prove a negative? Nothing I say or anyone says will sway your beliefs. Or rather, faith. So why waste the pixels?

Hahaha great thundering ox-carts full of books have been driven through that hole for centuries, and you want to stitch it up with a bit of entry-level epistemology?

Re: RELIGION Thread
« Reply #149 on: October 30, 2016, 02:14:19 PM »
Hahaha great thundering ox-carts full of books have been driven through that hole for centuries, and you want to stitch it up with a bit of entry-level epistemology?

THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER