Author President Donald J. Trump  (Read 895643 times)

5 Members and 36 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39900 on: March 19, 2017, 08:56:39 PM »
Now that you experts on America's immigration problems have all had your say, I'd suggest you go back and read the article I posted that triggered the discussion. Like the Trump administration, none of you have answers to the problem of the lack of farm workers, in spite of increasing wages, unemployed Americans.

Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don’t want the job

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/#nt=oft09a-7gp1
Simple economics. Supply/Demand. Once the wage is high enough and migration happens once the EBT etc gets cut off or unemployment conditions get too much in some areas.  ;)

I still think, cite the "right-wing" fake news, I sourced earlier as opposed to your one article, that technology is going to be displacing A LOT of workers (even in AG- as has happened before, of course) soon and importing the most uneducated, unskilled labor is not a wise long-term solution since those jobs will be gone also sooner than later.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39901 on: March 19, 2017, 08:57:37 PM »
... Secondly, being here illegally is actually a crime, does this link you provide take that into account when weighing their data of "immigrants commit less crime than US born citizens"?

I highly doubt it.

These are the sort of misleading (i.e., fake) statistics Pud is known for. 

Here we are given the set of ALL immigrants, instead of just illegal immigrants - which is what the discussion is about - and the resulting crime rate.  We should be looking at the crime rate for illegal immigrants only. 

In the set of illegal aliens vs the set of all aliens, we have a higher percentage of gang members, cartel members, uneducated people, unskilled people, young men (who have a higher crime rate than society in general), people willing to break immigration law (obviously), and so on.  In order to hide the much higher crime rate for these people, they hide it by including ALL immigrants.  And no, they don't include illegally entering the country as a crime for the purposes of these statistics.

There really is no end to the lengths the Fake News Media will go to make their agenda seem palatable.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39902 on: March 19, 2017, 09:00:31 PM »
a bumper sticker.

Which bumper sticker would you use for Trump's make believe world where he blames in turn; Obama, FBI,CIA, Fox news and GCHQ for his fantasy he was wiretapped? Bearing in mind that he has presented not one jot of evidence to substantiate his bullshit. But he has royally pissed off HMG. Do you think he realises his flippant crap can put people's lives at risk?


Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39903 on: March 19, 2017, 09:02:36 PM »
These are the sort of misleading (i.e., fake) statistics Pud is known for. 

Here we are given the set of ALL immigrants, instead of just illegal immigrants - which is what the discussion is about - and the resulting crime rate.  We should be looking at the crime rate for illegal immigrants only. 

In the set of illegal aliens vs the set of all aliens, we have a higher percentage of gang members, cartel members, uneducated people, unskilled people, young men (who have a higher crime rate than society in general), people willing to break immigration law (obviously), and so on.  In order to hide the much higher crime rate for these people, they hide it by including ALL immigrants.  And no, they don't include illegally entering the country as a crime for the purposes of these statistics.

There really is no end to the lengths the Fake News Media will go to make their agenda seem palatable.

And you get your statstics from whom? Show us.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39904 on: March 19, 2017, 09:04:35 PM »
Simple economics. Supply/Demand. Once the wage is high enough and migration happens once the EBT etc gets cut off or unemployment conditions get too much in some areas.  ;)

I still think, cite the "right-wing" fake news, I sourced earlier as opposed to your one article, that technology is going to be displacing A LOT of workers (even in AG- as has happened before, of course) soon and importing the most uneducated, unskilled labor is not a wise long-term solution since those jobs will be gone also sooner than later.

Well Trump did say unemployment was as high as 42%, so I suppose another fifteen or twenty isn't too much of a strain on the economy. Might need to buy one fewer tank divison or nuclear bomb though.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39905 on: March 19, 2017, 09:04:37 PM »
I'll remind you for the umpteenth time, I am not a Democrat so I'd appreciate you not weaving me into your narrative. Furthermore, show me where I stated I don't want criminals deported. My posts were related to a story about farm workers. Hard for you to follow, I know PB, but try to pay attention to the discussion.

Albrecht made a post about immigrants, Pud then responded with one of his typically hysterical posts - this one about how we'd never get any immigrants and more Trump blather.  You then piled on about our need for farm workers.  I was getting us back to the discussion.

So yay - apparently we all agree we want certain immigrants and not others, including farm workers and excluding criminals.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39906 on: March 19, 2017, 09:06:03 PM »
These are the sort of misleading (i.e., fake) statistics Pud is known for. 

Here we are given the set of ALL immigrants, instead of just illegal immigrants - which is what the discussion is about - and the resulting crime rate.  We should be looking at the crime rate for illegal immigrants only. 

In the set of illegal aliens vs the set of all aliens, we have a higher percentage of gang members, cartel members, uneducated people, unskilled people, young men (who have a higher crime rate than society in general), people willing to break immigration law (obviously), and so on.  In order to hide the much higher crime rate for these people, they hide it by including ALL immigrants.  And no, they don't include illegally entering the country as a crime for the purposes of these statistics.

There really is no end to the lengths the Fake News Media will go to make their agenda seem palatable.
Yeah, one always needs to be careful with the statistics. Especially the government does things like parse "Hispanic/Non-White" but also allows agencies, or people in the case of the census or victim report, to report as "White" if Hispanic. Which is accurate, but misleading (many of the richest people in Mexico are "whiter" than me.)

Also it is funny that YP in particular is so pro-illegal immigration when his country frequently jokes, and clashes, about immigration, "Polish plumbers," and stamps- even for legitimate travelers, "recourse to public funds prohibited" on one's passport, as if you are like the many Muslims, Gypsies, etc trying to get on the dole.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39907 on: March 19, 2017, 09:08:08 PM »
And you get your statstics from whom? Show us.

When I post one, I'll let you know.

In the mean time I'll continue pointing out the obvious gross flaws in the bullshit ones posted here

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39908 on: March 19, 2017, 09:11:04 PM »
... Also it is funny that YP in particular is so pro-illegal immigration when his country frequently jokes, and clashes, about immigration, "Polish plumbers," and stamps- even for legitimate travelers, "recourse to public funds prohibited" on one's passport, as if you are like the many Muslims, Gypsies, etc trying to get on the dole.

I think he realizes his country and all of Western Europe is in deep shit, and is looking for a good spot to land when the time comes to flee. 

Like the rest of the Libs fleeing the results of their own policies, he wants to make sure those are taking root here now too.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39909 on: March 19, 2017, 09:11:35 PM »
Well Trump did say unemployment was as high as 42%, so I suppose another fifteen or twenty isn't too much of a strain on the economy. Might need to buy one fewer tank divison or nuclear bomb though.
If we include farm (I joke only because I note with interest how every stat is "non-farm payroll" or "non-farm employment" in the major stats,) those out of the work-force (working off-books or stopped trying,) those on the dole, and those working in various bureaucracies and make-work jobs from Federal level down to the local municipalities? He might be closer than one thinks? I think we have plenty of nukes and tanks and planes, though an employer for mfg, also are likely a thing of the past for warfare. I keep telling him biological/chemical is the way of the future....cheaper, more effective, plausible deniability, etc. Sure there are treaties but come-on Donald.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39910 on: March 19, 2017, 09:12:08 PM »
Albrecht made a post about immigrants, Pud then responded with one of his typically hysterical posts - this one about how we'd never get any immigrants and more Trump blather.  You then piled on about our need for farm workers.  I was getting us back to the discussion.

So yay - apparently we all agree we want certain immigrants and not others, including farm workers and excluding criminals.

But unintended consequeces mean that even legitimate immigrants who go through the green card process at considerable expense and time are being put off. Many of them highly skilled doing jobs that they've been interviewed for. They're chosing to shy away from America not because of the deportation of illegal immigrants, but the fear of what might happen in the future to them and their families. Trump is so unpredicatble and has a mind that works only on what he approves of that no-one can make plans with any degree of certainty. Foreign firms will shy away from investing in America if they feel they can't freely bring in their employees irrespective of their nationality or religion.


Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39911 on: March 19, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »
These are the sort of misleading (i.e., fake) statistics Pud is known for. 

Here we are given the set of ALL immigrants, instead of just illegal immigrants - which is what the discussion is about - and the resulting crime rate.  We should be looking at the crime rate for illegal immigrants only. 

In the set of illegal aliens vs the set of all aliens, we have a higher percentage of gang members, cartel members, uneducated people, unskilled people, young men (who have a higher crime rate than society in general), people willing to break immigration law (obviously), and so on.  In order to hide the much higher crime rate for these people, they hide it by including ALL immigrants.  And no, they don't include illegally entering the country as a crime for the purposes of these statistics.

There really is no end to the lengths the Fake News Media will go to make their agenda seem palatable.

[Yawn] Same ol' "Fake news" whenever a report--regardless of who conducts the study--fails to support your bigoted agenda.

If you're referring to the article I posted and actually read it before posting your canned response, you'd see that in fact the study did separately account for legal and illegal immigrants.

http://thehill.com/latino/324607-reports-find-that-immigrants-commit-less-crime-than-us-born-citizens

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39912 on: March 19, 2017, 09:15:56 PM »

Also it is funny that YP in particular is so pro-illegal immigration

You take far too much notice of Trumpspeak. He trots out any shite that he believes too. Show me where I support illegal immigration.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39913 on: March 19, 2017, 09:16:37 PM »
When I post one, I'll let you know.

In the mean time I'll continue pointing out the obvious gross flaws in the bullshit ones posted here

You got nothng then? No real surprises.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39914 on: March 19, 2017, 09:17:18 PM »
But unintended consequeces mean that even legitimate immigrants who go through the green card process at considerable expense and time are being put off. Many of them highly skilled doing jobs that they've been interviewed for. They're chosing to shy away from America not because of the deportation of illegal immigrants, but the fear of what might happen in the future to them and their families. Trump is so unpredicatble and has a mind that works only on what he approves of that no-one can make plans with any degree of certainty. Foreign firms will shy away from investing in America if they feel they can't freely bring in their employees irrespective of their nationality or religion.
I had a Malaysian kicked out of your country many years ago. Admittedly we were (I think statue of limitations apply) using liberally some of the laws about "meetings" to get some technical work done. Unfortunately for this poor guy his limited English and bad response to your fine immigration clerks questions caused him to be held and then sent back. (Like a 42+ hour of travel and detainment.) Ha. It sucked at the time, he was coming over to fix a certain machine so down time. But sucked worse for him because "bosses" back home, and in China, weren't happy with him getting caught.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39915 on: March 19, 2017, 09:20:02 PM »
But unintended consequeces mean that even legitimate immigrants who go through the green card process at considerable expense and time are being put off. Many of them highly skilled doing jobs that they've been interviewed for. They're chosing to shy away from America not because of the deportation of illegal immigrants, but the fear of what might happen in the future to them and their families. Trump is so unpredicatble and has a mind that works only on what he approves of that no-one can make plans with any degree of certainty. Foreign firms will shy away from investing in America if they feel they can't freely bring in their employees irrespective of their nationality or religion.

Let's say that's true.  So what?

We have an unemployment problem where our own people aren't finding enough good jobs.  Including some pretty bright people in IT who are being undercut by foreigners being imported and hired here, for the sole purpose of lowering corporate costs. 

We have also had a 30-year plus period of massive immigration.  I believe it would be beneficial to take a step back to a certain extent, and absorb what we already have.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39916 on: March 19, 2017, 09:22:50 PM »
[Yawn] Same ol' "Fake news" whenever a report--regardless of who conducts the study--fails to support your bigoted agenda.

If you're referring to the article I posted and actually read it before posting your canned response, you'd see that in fact the study did separately account for legal and illegal immigrants.

http://thehill.com/latino/324607-reports-find-that-immigrants-commit-less-crime-than-us-born-citizens
How much rape is acceptable? Or just DWI accidents and other crimes? Sure, before your typical reply, we have rapists and drunk drivers here already but why importing more is going to help or a good thing? You think importing uneducated and illiterate, even in their home language, students will help out public schools? Hard enough to teach geometry to kids but ones that don't understand English (actually geometry and math might be the easier subject to teach to multilingual students?) 18 year old NINTH graders? A good thing?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/two-rockville-high-students-arrested-after-allegedly-raping-14-year-old-at-school/2017/03/17/a31cf300-0b30-11e7-924c-25b7f4fdf51d_story.html?utm_term=.5abde0715ebd

"A 14-year-old girl was pushed into a boys bathroom at Rockville High School on Thursday morning and raped by two other students during school hours, according to Montgomery County District Court records filed Friday.

Police arrested two ninth-graders, Henry E. Sanchez, 18, and Jose O. Montano, 17, who appeared in court Friday and were ordered held without bond. "

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39917 on: March 19, 2017, 09:24:08 PM »
You got nothng then? No real surprises.

Which statistic have I posted do you want the source of?

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39918 on: March 19, 2017, 09:24:44 PM »
[Yawn] Same ol' "Fake news" whenever a report--regardless of who conducts the study--fails to support your bigoted agenda.

If you're referring to the article I posted and actually read it before posting your canned response, you'd see that in fact the study did separately account for legal and illegal immigrants.

http://thehill.com/latino/324607-reports-find-that-immigrants-commit-less-crime-than-us-born-citizens

You're right.  I don't even read that trash anymore.  Why would I?

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39919 on: March 19, 2017, 09:24:46 PM »
Let's say that's true.  So what?

We have an unemployment problem where our own people aren't finding enough good jobs.  Including some pretty bright people in IT who are being undercut by foreigners being imported and hired here for the sole purpose of lowering corporate costs. 

Utter bullshit. In IT? If a foreign worker is employed in a US IT firm, they are not being paid less than an American. Theyre there because they have the expertise.
Quote
We have also had over 30 years of massive immigration.  I believe it would be beneficial to take a step back to a certain extent and absorb what we already have.

Sure. You have millions of highly skilled Americans queuing up for the job Trump will make for them. If he isn't playing golf at $3million per weekend.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39920 on: March 19, 2017, 09:27:13 PM »
I remember when Bush Jr. proposed guest worker visas and some of the loudest criticism came from his own party. Probably afraid they'd lose their illegal domestic workers, forcing them to hire legal workers and pay the required taxes, etc.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/bush-proposes-new-temporary-worker-program

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39921 on: March 19, 2017, 09:27:20 PM »
Utter bullshit. In IT? If a foreign worker is employed in a US IT firm, they are not being paid less than an American. Theyre there because they have the expertise...

Some are some aren't.  It depends on the company, the position, and the individual. 

Of the two of us, one of us has worked for software and bio-tech companies in Silicon Valley and understands the issue.

And it isn't you.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39922 on: March 19, 2017, 09:30:22 PM »
Utter bullshit. In IT? If a foreign worker is employed in a US IT firm, they are not being paid less than an American. Theyre there because they have the expertise.
BS. A lot of times they are because they want to get out of their countries and they know their VISA, usually H-1B (but other countries have different deals,) ties them to their employer. So unlike native employees they can't (as easily) compete to get another job. (There are work-arounds and headhunters and lawfirms who specialize in this though.) But on a say not "high level" expertise they are paid less and are tied to the company, especially when young (often foreign students who want to convert their student VISA to work/residence VISA here or in Europe.) Also the family issue, with usually older ones is key, they want to keep their kids at our schools and so that tie to the company VISA is essential.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39923 on: March 19, 2017, 09:37:10 PM »
Utter bullshit. In IT? If a foreign worker is employed in a US IT firm, they are not being paid less than an American. Theyre there because they have the expertise...

Here's an FYI for the Brits who know all there is to know about US labor law, immigration, and so much else:

The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(17)(H).  It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations.  If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker must either apply for and be granted a change of status to another non-immigrant status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or leave the U.S.


The hiring employer pays the legal costs of the H-1B.  Guess who pays the costs of applying for the change in status to leave and go to another employer, or for a change of visa?  How often do you think that happens?  How long do you think it takes?  What does the original employer tend to do when they get wind one of their employees is unhappy and plans to leave?  What happens when that employee gets fired and has no income?

H1-b Visa's aren't transferable, the person has no choice but to work for their current company.  A person as anti-capitalism as you can certainly see the problem.  Or maybe you can't.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39924 on: March 19, 2017, 09:41:18 PM »
I remember when Bush Jr. proposed guest worker visas and some of the loudest criticism came from his own party. Probably afraid they'd lose their illegal domestic workers, forcing them to hire legal workers and pay the required taxes, etc.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/bush-proposes-new-temporary-worker-program

God, please don't make me read that, but yes, Bush and his cronies are globalist elites.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39925 on: March 19, 2017, 09:47:51 PM »
Here's an FYI for the Brits who know all there is to know about US labor law, immigration, and so much else:

The H-1B is a non-immigrant visa in the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 101(a)(17)(H).  It allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in specialty occupations.  If a foreign worker in H-1B status quits or is dismissed from the sponsoring employer, the worker must either apply for and be granted a change of status to another non-immigrant status, find another employer (subject to application for adjustment of status and/or change of visa), or leave the U.S.


The hiring employer pays the legal costs of the H-1B.  Guess who pays the costs of applying for the change in status to leave and go to another employer, or for a change of visa?  How often do you think that happens?  How long do you think it takes?  What does the original employer tend to do when they get wind one of their employees is unhappy and plans to leave?  What happens when that employee gets fired and has no income?

H1-b Visa's aren't transferable, the person has no choice but to work for their current company.  A person as anti-capitalism as you can certainly see the problem.  Or maybe you can't.
The Brits have a similar scheme, as do most countries. I forget what is called there but as I mentioned to YP we, "royal we" since I wasn't expressly involved, tried to skirt it and the poor Malaysian engineer get detained and sent back! Long flights with no meals and no business class. Ha. (At the time not Ha though.)

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39926 on: March 19, 2017, 10:06:40 PM »
God, please don't make me read that, but yes, Bush and his cronies are globalist elites.

Well, it appears those cronies include Trump. Since you abhor liberal "fake news", I'll leave this for your consideration. From a conservative, right-wing operation...

Trump Hired Polish Illegal Immigrants to Build Trump Tower
And that's not even the worst part.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-hired-polish-illegal-immigrants-to-build-trump-tower/article/2001294

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39927 on: March 19, 2017, 10:14:56 PM »
Well, it appears those cronies include Trump. Since you abhor liberal "fake news", I'll leave this for your consideration. From a conservative, right-wing operation...

Trump Hired Polish Illegal Immigrants to Build Trump Tower
And that's not even the worst part.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/trump-hired-polish-illegal-immigrants-to-build-trump-tower/article/2001294
I have a LOT of problems with Trump (too soft on immigration, his style, his Hollywood connections etc) but he admitted this stuff, like paying off Clintons politicians, etc he was a businessman doing business in a climate of getting it done, and legally, we allow this crap. Now this might change? Maybe, he says so but who knows. Frankly I don't like the pay-for-play or use contractors for illegals etc but until illegal why not? At least it gives less money to the government and, ultimately, the less $ they get the less wars and spending.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39928 on: March 19, 2017, 11:15:52 PM »
Utter bullshit. In IT? If a foreign worker is employed in a US IT firm, they are not being paid less than an American. Theyre there because they have the expertise.
Sure. You have millions of highly skilled Americans queuing up for the job Trump will make for them. If he isn't playing golf at $3million per weekend.

Workers employed under the H1B program do not have to be provided healthcare under the ACA.

Re: President Donald J. Trump
« Reply #39929 on: March 19, 2017, 11:30:10 PM »
Breaking Tonight, President Donald Trump Latest News Today 3/19/17, White House news.  Veterans' Care.