Author President Donald J. Trump  (Read 899502 times)

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Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26970 on: January 10, 2017, 05:00:28 PM »
I don't advocate the death penalty in all cases of murder.  However, there are cases such as this that are so heinous as to demand it.  If you think that the swift and certain justice demonstrated in this case won't  serve as a deterrent to many (not all of course) like minded cretans you're mistaken.  If it prevents the occurrence of just one future incident of this kind it is a service to humanity.

I didn't know the people of Crete were all that bad, but you must have better information than me. When it's that heinous it's just simple vengeance and has nothing to do with deterrence. If you're telling me that a serial killer is capable of that kind of rationalisation - well, there's no evidence to support your claim. If you want to do something that would actually work then have the death penalty for people who steal library books and trivial offences. Put a gallows outside, I guarantee that would work.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26971 on: January 10, 2017, 05:07:22 PM »
I didn't know the people of Crete were all that bad, but you must have better information than me. When it's that heinous it's just simple vengeance and has nothing to do with deterrence. If you're telling me that a serial killer is capable of that kind of rationalisation - well, there's no evidence to support your claim. If you want to do something that would actually work then have the death penalty for people who steal library books and trivial offences. Put a gallows outside, I guarantee that would work.

You know I've heard that same sort of rhetoric from windbags holding forth on Speakers Corner, Hyde Park.  They made the same nonsensical extrapolations that you just did.  Must be something in the water.

Thanks for correcting my spelling of cretin.  You have all the skills of an accomplished stenographer.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26972 on: January 10, 2017, 05:11:04 PM »
You know I've heard that same sort of rhetoric from windbags holding forth on Speakers Corner, Hyde Park.  They made the same nonsensical extrapolations that you just did.  Must be something in the water.

No doubt you rubbed the Achilles statue inappropriately while you were there. I'm still waiting for your apology to the unjustly maligned people of Crete too.


Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26973 on: January 10, 2017, 05:12:09 PM »
Thanks for correcting my spelling of cretin. 

That's alright. I'm sure you mentally blotted it out, being the word  that cropped up most often on your school reports.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26974 on: January 10, 2017, 05:22:21 PM »
You know I've heard that same sort of rhetoric from windbags holding forth on Speakers Corner, Hyde Park.  They made the same nonsensical extrapolations that you just did.  Must be something in the water.

Thanks for correcting my spelling of cretin.  You have all the skills of an accomplished stenographer.

When I was much younger, I thought the UK should re-introduce capital punishment. But as a deterant, it doesn't work. If it did, then murders would stop overnight in places where the death penalty still exists. As punishment? No; because a punishment has to be a learned thing. A punishment where the criminal is in a state of mind he thought death was an escape would be a punishment that would deter. What that is, is open to debate.

This case with Roof is different in that he's wanted to be executed; so he should be denied it. He's calling the shots. He's wanting the publicity, the narcissist should be put in a cell, on an island, alone.


As a footnote; I watched a documentary about an ex executioner of Georgia. He'd been responsible for dozens of criminals. At the time he really believed the punishment was justified and proper. But now, many years later, he thinks the opposite. He feels it serves no purpose whatever, other than to satisfy the vengeance of the population.

I still react at various cases, especially with kids, that they 'should string the bastard up'. But the red mist goes and I still come back to the punishment should be banishment with no parole for the most terrible crimes.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26975 on: January 10, 2017, 05:32:41 PM »
As a footnote; I watched a documentary about an ex executioner of Georgia. He'd been responsible for dozens of criminals. At the time he really believed the punishment was justified and proper. But now, many years later, he thinks the opposite. He feels it serves no purpose whatever, other than to satisfy the vengeance of the population.

Nobody ever really talks about the people who have to do the killing (let's be honest and call it what it is, rather than execution). You have a group of people, employed by the state, whose job it is to cold-bloodedly kill people. We're not talking about war where you can rationalise it in some way; no you're literally putting down a human being as though they were a dog. I often wonder how the people involved in it cope in the long run. Also, how the doctors can square their participation with the Hippocratic oath.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26976 on: January 10, 2017, 05:33:53 PM »
I'll never understand why the thought-impaired see judicial murder as 'justice'. After all, you don't sentence a rapist to be buggered to death (although I know it probably gets a few of you hot under the collar at the thought of it). Also, the ultimate injustice would be to get tried and hanged for a crime you didn't commit. And there's no appeal from that one.

I don't want my tax money used to keep murderers alive until they die of natural causes.  Let them burn,hang, or die from a needle, it doesn't matter to me.  I think a life for a life is a good policy when it comes to dispensing justice to killers.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26977 on: January 10, 2017, 05:36:48 PM »
Yeah, I've got to agree with the Brits here.  You are a fucking idiot.  It's retards like you who inspire retards like Roof.  You are a waste of God's oxygen.
You'll have to excuse our resident racist.  He has trouble getting oxygen to his brain.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26978 on: January 10, 2017, 05:39:02 PM »
You'll have to excuse our resident racist.  He has trouble getting oxygen to his brain.

No need to excuse it; not your responsibility.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26979 on: January 10, 2017, 05:43:30 PM »
I don't want my tax money used to keep murderers alive until they die of natural causes.  Let them burn,hang, or die from a needle, it doesn't matter to me.  I think a life for a life is a good policy when it comes to dispensing justice to killers.

Paradox: 'freedom of the individual' types are almost invariably big law and order fans too. They rarely see the problem of allowing the state to kill you if it so chooses.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26980 on: January 10, 2017, 05:46:15 PM »
No doubt you rubbed the Achilles statue inappropriately while you were there. I'm still waiting for your apology to the unjustly maligned people of Crete too.

You know I had a very nice experience once on Speakers Corner.  I was traveling with my boss, a CF Navy Captain.  We had come up from Portugal on a Friday afternoon and we're staying in a small hotel in Marble Arch (it had the word Savoy in its name but can't remember the rest) We had meetings at Northwood beginning the following Monday so we had the weekend to kill.  We were walking around on Saturday afternoon and stopped to listen to a Speaker that had drawn quite a crowd on Speaker's Corner.   The man speaking was a clearly a little oiled and began gesturing wildly until he fell backwards off his soap box in a perfect sitting position.  We all got a big laugh out of it until we realized the man was injured when he couldn't get up. Of course the EMTs arrived in short order and the poor guy was hauled off to the hospital.  When their was still something of a crowd remaining on the corner my boss speculated out loud that the old gent must have broken his coccyx.  Being the smart ass junior officer that I was at the time, I couldn't resist volunteering, "nah boss, I think he just busted his ass."  Those Brits around us within earshot started to howl and my boss being a typical Canadian looked shocked and appalled before cracking up himself.  Later that day that bit of foolishness got us a free pint in the hotel bar when we were recognized from the incident by some Brits staying there.  Fortunately for me it wasn't reflected in my next report of fitness.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26981 on: January 10, 2017, 05:49:01 PM »
Paradox: 'freedom of the individual' types are almost invariably big law and order fans too. They rarely see the problem of allowing the state to kill you if it so chooses.

I'm for freedom as long as it doesn't interfere with another person's freedom.   I think depriving another individual of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should have harsh consequences but that's just me.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26982 on: January 10, 2017, 05:55:28 PM »
When their was still something of a crowd remaining on the corner my boss speculated out loud that the old gent must have broken his coccyx.  Being the smart ass junior officer that I was at the time, I couldn't resist volunteering, "nah boss, I think he just busted his ass." 

That line was used in the film 'Carry on, Doctor' some time in the mid-sixties. Depending on when your experience was it sounds like one of you has a claim for royalties. I've never been to Speakers Corner on Sunday when the loonies are supposed to come out,  and I don't even know if it's still a 'thing'. It certainly used to be, but all the nutters have  migrated to YouTube these days so they probably don't feel the need to bother.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26983 on: January 10, 2017, 05:57:08 PM »
You know I had a very nice experience once on Speakers Corner.  I was traveling with my boss, a CF Navy Captain.  We had come up from Portugal on a Friday afternoon and we're staying in a small hotel in Marble Arch (it had the word Savoy in its name but can't remember the rest) We had meetings at Northwood beginning the following Monday so we had the weekend to kill.  We were walking around on Saturday afternoon and stopped to listen to a Speaker that had drawn quite a crowd on Speaker's Corner.   The man speaking was a clearly a little oiled and began gesturing wildly until he fell backwards off his soap box in a perfect sitting position.  We all got a big laugh out of it until we realized the man was injured when he couldn't get up. Of course the EMTs arrived in short order and the poor guy was hauled off to the hospital.  When their was still something of a crowd remaining on the corner my boss speculated out loud that the old gent must have broken his coccyx.  Being the smart ass junior officer that I was at the time, I couldn't resist volunteering, "nah boss, I think he just busted his ass."  Those Brits around us within earshot started to howl and my boss being a typical Canadian looked shocked and appalled before cracking up himself. Later that day that bit of foolishness got us a free pint in the hotel bar when we were recognized from the incident by some Brits staying there.  Fortunately for me it wasn't reflected in my next report of fitness.

What very little I know about volunteering to sail underwater in a big black death trap, I'd say a keen sense of humour would be essential and not to be frowned on.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26984 on: January 10, 2017, 06:02:20 PM »

This case with Roof is different in that he's wanted to be executed; so he should be denied it. He's calling the shots. He's wanting the publicity, the narcissist should be put in a cell, on an island, alone.

Exactly.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Tru
« Reply #26985 on: January 10, 2017, 06:09:24 PM »
That line was used in the film 'Carry on, Doctor' some time in the mid-sixties. Depending on when your experience was it sounds like one of you has a claim for royalties. I've never been to Speakers Corner on Sunday when the loonies are supposed to come out,  and I don't even know if it's still a 'thing'. It certainly used to be, but all the nutters have  migrated to YouTube these days so they probably don't feel the need to bother.

I never saw that movie but I'm sure I'm not the only one to think of that line. It was a perfect set up and it just needed saying. 

It would be sad indeed if yet another honored tradition went tits up.  My condolences.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26986 on: January 10, 2017, 06:12:59 PM »
What very little I know about volunteering to sail underwater in a big black death trap, I'd say a keen sense of humour would be essential and not to be frowned on.

It doesn't hurt.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26987 on: January 10, 2017, 06:30:21 PM »
When I was much younger, I thought the UK should re-introduce capital punishment. But as a deterant, it doesn't work. If it did, then murders would stop overnight in places where the death penalty still exists. As punishment? No; because a punishment has to be a learned thing. A punishment where the criminal is in a state of mind he thought death was an escape would be a punishment that would deter. What that is, is open to debate.

This case with Roof is different in that he's wanted to be executed; so he should be denied it. He's calling the shots. He's wanting the publicity, the narcissist should be put in a cell, on an island, alone.


As a footnote; I watched a documentary about an ex executioner of Georgia. He'd been responsible for dozens of criminals. At the time he really believed the punishment was justified and proper. But now, many years later, he thinks the opposite. He feels it serves no purpose whatever, other than to satisfy the vengeance of the population.

I still react at various cases, especially with kids, that they 'should string the bastard up'. But the red mist goes and I still come back to the punishment should be banishment with no parole for the most terrible crimes.
The Death Penalty works as a deterrent, at least a specific deterrent (the guy put down will never commit another crime.) Giving somebody "life" allows them to often commit more crime, even in prison (rape, murder, attacking guards, fights, drug dealing, etc.) And the costs to house*. As a general deterrent? The death penalty isn't likely a very effective one, at least for murder, (who knows if it was implement for other crimes, maybe it would be a deterrent?) since most murders are done in the heat of passion, impulse when committing another crime, etc. The only problem I have with it is that we don't have perfect information, in many circumstances and, depending on the crime, victim, place, accused there might not be a real fair trial (the whole tax-payer funded State, or Crown, against some poor guy with an appointed public defender just out of law school.) Having said that, if someone witnesses a violent crime or rape at the scene, so there is no question of what is happening and who is the perp? I am not against stringing them up or shooting them right there on the spot and would acquit anybody who did so if I serve on the jury or not indict if sitting on a grand jury.

* I like the old idea of abandoning them on some island. I'll bet sociologists, and the general viewing public, would like to see what happens, how a society would be organized, could they survive, cooperate, etc.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26988 on: January 10, 2017, 06:36:16 PM »
The Death Penalty works as a deterrent, at least a specific deterrent (the guy put down will never commit another crime.) Giving somebody "life" allows them to often commit more crime, even in prison (rape, murder, attacking guards, fights, drug dealing, etc.) And the costs to house*. As a general deterrent? The death penalty a very effective one, at least for murder, (who knows if it was implement for other crimes, maybe it would be a deterrent?) since most murders are done in the heat of passion, impulse when committing another crime, etc. The only problem I have with it is that we don't have perfect information, in many circumstances and, depending on the crime, victim, place, accused there might not be a real fair trial (the whole tax-payer funded State, or Crown, against some poor guy with an appointed public defender just out of law school.)

* I like the old idea of abandoning them on some island. I'll bet sociologists, and the general viewing public, would like to see what happens, how a society would be organized, could they survive, cooperate, etc.

The obvious problem with capital punishment is one of absolute certainty. Many cases in the UK and in the US have several years alter, innocent people released because the evidence has later been shown to be false or fabricated. Which is fine, up until you or someone close to you is the innocent person convicted.

As for being a deterrent to others; well, it sure isn't working as such in the USA. It has the highest prison population on the planet. I accept not everyone is in for murder* or rape, but those that are obviously didn't get the memo.

*As opposed to unintentional homicide, what we call manslaughter.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26989 on: January 10, 2017, 06:43:48 PM »
The obvious problem with capital punishment is one of absolute certainty. Many cases in the UK and in the US have several years alter, innocent people released because the evidence has later been shown to be false or fabricated. Which is fine, up until you or someone close to you is the innocent person convicted.

As for being a deterrent to others; well, it sure isn't working as such in the USA. It has the highest prison population on the planet. I accept not everyone is in for murder* or rape, but those that are obviously didn't get the memo.

*As opposed to unintentional homicide, what we call manslaughter.
Those are the points I was making. It is patently obvious that the death penalty is a specific deterrent (unless you believe the dead guy will be reincarnated to continue to commit crime) but as a general deterrent it is not very effective- at least for crimes like murder. Now it could be possible that IF the DP was implemented for "white collar" crimes or crimes that involve more planning and less heat of passion or impulse it could be a general deterrent?

True, the USA has too many laws, too many immigrants (often illegal,) and slavery was an awful thing whose legacy keeps on giving. But crime varies wildly between certain cities, certain neighborhoods, certain demographics, etc. There also (in some cases) a perverse incentive with asset forfeiture laws, neighborhood killing cultures like "don't snitch" or attack police, and privatized prisons, politicians, etc so crime, for some, is a good thing or at least a profitable enterprise.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26990 on: January 10, 2017, 07:22:27 PM »
I know it's the daily mail, but it wouldn't surprise me if this bombshell were true. Those who said Russia had nothing on Trump, might want to reconsider. This is how the Kremlin operates--dirt is dirt, and it's wise to collect it all regardless of whose side you're on. You never know when it might come in handy.

Revealed: Spy bosses told Trump that Kremlin holds 'blackmail dossier' - including 'secret film of him watching degrading sex acts on bed where Obama slept in Moscow'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4107738/Intelligence-chief-told-Trump-Kremlin-spies-claim-compromising-material-personal-life-including-claims-degrading-sex-acts-Moscow-hotel.html

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26991 on: January 10, 2017, 07:31:33 PM »
I know it's the daily mail, but it wouldn't surprise me if this bombshell were true. Those who said Russia had nothing on Trump, might want to reconsider.  But this is how the Kremlin operates--dirt is dirt, and it's wise to collect it all regardless of whose side you're on. You never know when it might come in handy.

Revealed: Spy bosses told Trump that Kremlin holds 'blackmail dossier' - including 'secret film of him watching degrading sex acts on bed where Obama slept in Moscow'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4107738/Intelligence-chief-told-Trump-Kremlin-spies-claim-compromising-material-personal-life-including-claims-degrading-sex-acts-Moscow-hotel.html
Old news, maybe "fake news," though with the Russians and IC one can never, really, know, I guess. And interesting that this alleged "former spook" was originally hired by Republican client but then....Here is the purported report.
ps: I'm not sure the sex acts alleged were "degrading" at least by German or Hollywood standards and, after all, who are we to judge!  ;)
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
"This was for an opposition research project originally financed by a Republican client critical of the celebrity mogul. (Before the former spy was retained, the project's financing switched to a client allied with Democrats.)"

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26992 on: January 10, 2017, 07:32:25 PM »
I would like to see capital punishment become something that is awarded only in the rarest of circumstances when there can be no doubt as to to malice of forethought, mental capacity and specific acts.  Acknowledging all that has been said here and with a full understanding of the arguments pro and con, sometimes someone comes along whose acts are so heinous that they are beyond intellectualizing and that person just needs killing for the good of the Nations soul.  Timothy
McVeigh, the Oklahoma City Bomber is another one in this category and if I had more time I could come up with a few others.

If that means I'm a barbarian I can live with it.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26993 on: January 10, 2017, 07:36:24 PM »
Old news, maybe "fake news," though with the Russians and IC one can never, really, know, I guess. And interesting that this alleged "former spook" was originally hired by Republican client but then....Here is the purported report.
ps: I'm not sure the sex acts alleged were "degrading" at least by German or Hollywood standards and, after all, who are we to judge!  ;)
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
"This was for an opposition research project originally financed by a Republican client critical of the celebrity mogul. (Before the former spy was retained, the project's financing switched to a client allied with Democrats.)"

I guess the best way to see if Russia has dirt on Trump is to watch how conciliatory he is with Putin.  So far it just looks like naive admiration, but we'll see.


Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26994 on: January 10, 2017, 07:43:10 PM »
I guess the best way to see if Russia has dirt on Trump is to watch how conciliatory he is with Putin.  So far it just looks like naive admiration, but we'll see.
Maybe. I would rather have good, friendly- or at least stable- relations with Russia, rather than war Cold, Proxy, or otherwise. I also hope the former deals in the works with Exxon-Mobil, BP, etc get going and we can also export more of our chicken etc to there. I don't trust Putin but simply because I don't trust doesn't mean we can't do business. Good for dividends, workers, take away profits from even worse countries (Middle East "royals" and despots,) etc. But I also could see that articles like MJ and now etc stuff is just the same old way to try to undermine Trump and/or the deep-seeded agenda of agencies who, for various reasons, like to promote the 'old way' of Cold War etc.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26995 on: January 10, 2017, 07:47:48 PM »
I know it's the daily mail, but it wouldn't surprise me if this bombshell were true. Those who said Russia had nothing on Trump, might want to reconsider. This is how the Kremlin operates--dirt is dirt, and it's wise to collect it all regardless of whose side you're on. You never know when it might come in handy.

Revealed: Spy bosses told Trump that Kremlin holds 'blackmail dossier' - including 'secret film of him watching degrading sex acts on bed where Obama slept in Moscow'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4107738/Intelligence-chief-told-Trump-Kremlin-spies-claim-compromising-material-personal-life-including-claims-degrading-sex-acts-Moscow-hotel.html

Okay with this post you made the cut.  You are officially a dumb broad.  Your will receive your certificate via USPS within 10 working days. 

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26996 on: January 10, 2017, 07:49:07 PM »
Old news, maybe "fake news," though with the Russians and IC one can never, really, know, I guess. And interesting that this alleged "former spook" was originally hired by Republican client but then....Here is the purported report.
ps: I'm not sure the sex acts alleged were "degrading" at least by German or Hollywood standards and, after all, who are we to judge!  ;)
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html
"This was for an opposition research project originally financed by a Republican client critical of the celebrity mogul. (Before the former spy was retained, the project's financing switched to a client allied with Democrats.)"

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump


Read through the pdf on the Buzzfeed link. And although its CNN on the other, they're being absolutely clear that so far they're not saying its true, just that Trump has been made aware the information is out there. They have Bernstein on the link too.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/


https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.kkx5pLoyK#.iyjXGn39N

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26997 on: January 10, 2017, 07:50:29 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4107738/Intelligence-chief-told-Drumpf-Kremlin-spies-claim-compromising-material-personal-life-including-claims-degrading-sex-acts-Moscow-hotel.html

Quote
What is believed to be the 35-page document itself was published by Buzzfeed, which pointed out that it contained errors. Little of its contents can be independently verified.


I went to Buzzfeed and examined the documents.

I remain unmoved.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26998 on: January 10, 2017, 07:50:59 PM »
Okay with this post you made the cut.  You are officially a dumb broad.  Your will receive your certificate via USPS within 10 working days.


Well if she's dumb, the synopsis reported has been written by dumb people too. Buzzfeed aren't saying its true; they're saying that Trump has been made aware of it. They can't say more at this stage or they'll have their ass sued off.

Re: President-Elect Donald J. Trump
« Reply #26999 on: January 10, 2017, 07:52:13 PM »

Well if she's dumb, the synopsis reported has been written by dumb people too.

Okay, have it your way.  They're dumb too.