Author Guns  (Read 97758 times)

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Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #210 on: May 15, 2013, 07:06:22 PM »
I'd be curious to know, Onan, what percentage of people in this country could be identified as porn addicts.  I am not making some big judgment about porn here, by the way.  But such addiction can affect marriage/relationships.  I had two students last year whose marriages were in serious trouble when they found out their husbands were addicted to internet porn.  Some of us have also no doubt seen some truly vile material online that utterly degrades the participants.  Sure, these people perhaps are of age to perform in such work, but I suspect a lot of them have serious self-esteem issues, chemical dependencies, and so forth.  I don't know if there is any evidence that exposure to such material (people having sex with animals, consuming fecal matter, suffering beatings during sex, etc.) has any quantifiable impact on viewers, but I think the question as to impact is worth exploring.


I got nothin on this... well here are a few stats:



12 percent of websites offer porn.


40 million Americans are regular users of porn sites. About 30 percent are women.


35 percent of all internet downloads are pornographic.


Utah has the highest subscription rate to porn sites.


I have talked with several spouses that feel threatened by their significant other's use of porn. Usually there is some underlying psychological issue that is more the issue than porn. That being said, for some it is an addiction.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #211 on: May 15, 2013, 07:23:42 PM »
I'd be curious to know, Onan, what percentage of people in this country could be identified as porn addicts.  I am not making some big judgment about porn here, by the way.  But such addiction can affect marriage/relationships.  I had two students last year whose marriages were in serious trouble when they found out their husbands were addicted to internet porn.  Some of us have also no doubt seen some truly vile material online that utterly degrades the participants.  Sure, these people perhaps are of age to perform in such work, but I suspect a lot of them have serious self-esteem issues, chemical dependencies, and so forth.  I don't know if there is any evidence that exposure to such material (people having sex with animals, consuming fecal matter, suffering beatings during sex, etc.) has any quantifiable impact on viewers, but I think the question as to impact is worth exploring.
Not to contribute to a derail, but you raise an interesting question. Now I'm a conservative guy in a lot of ways. I'm still married to my first wife after 29 years. While I believe in as much individual freedom as possible, I think we're drowning in porn, and I don't think it's harmless. I believe it is terribly desensitizing, and for many people it substitutes a damaging fantasy for reality. Plus, arrested (rarely) pornmasters' appeals to the Constitution are incredibly cynical and offensive.

All that being said, I am also leery of an ex-wife in high dudgeon who claims her husband's "porn addiction" destroyed their marriage. I think all too often that "addiction" is more likely to be a symptom than the disease, and is rather a convenient way to blame and embarrass the ex husband while painting oneself as a sinned-against victim. (You alluded to this, onan.)

Now, they can have my digital gun when they pry my printer and CPU from my cold, dead fingers.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #212 on: May 15, 2013, 07:35:00 PM »
Not to contribute to a derail, but you raise an interesting question. Now I'm a conservative guy in a lot of ways. I'm still married to my first wife after 29 years. While I believe in as much individual freedom as possible, I think we're drowning in porn, and I don't think it's harmless. I believe it is terribly desensitizing, and for many people it substitutes a damaging fantasy for reality. Plus, arrested (rarely) pornmasters' appeals to the Constitution are incredibly cynical and offensive.

All that being said, I am also leery of an ex-wife in high dudgeon who claims her husband's "porn addiction" destroyed their marriage. I think all too often that "addiction" is more likely to be a symptom than the disease, and is rather a convenient way to blame and embarrass the ex husband while painting oneself as a sinned-against victim. (You alluded to this, onan.)

Now, they can have my digital gun when they pry my printer and CPU from my cold, dead fingers.


I am setting up my printer now... just got the schematics for Angelina's boobies.


Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #213 on: May 15, 2013, 08:04:39 PM »
I am setting up my printer now... just got the schematics for Angelina's boobies.
You know, in 10 years we may not recognize the system in place by then for buying goods. We might be buying code instead of steel and plastic.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #214 on: May 17, 2013, 03:42:55 AM »
Quote
Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time

cuz you. thats why

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #215 on: May 17, 2013, 05:51:24 AM »
cuz you. thats why

 He's the one with the PhD so I can see why your well thought out reply might not exactly meet with what he was expecting; but you never know.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #216 on: May 17, 2013, 11:08:27 AM »

General, there`s no bigger fan of the Kalashnikov than yours truly, but as a practical manner, I would recommend The Judge, from Taurus. It chambers both a .45 cal. magnum round, and a .410 shotgun shell. This weapon has devastating stopping power and can intimidate with it`s boisterous retort.


Easy to handle, light weight, and fairly accurate. Additionally, I have never known one to jam, which is/can be, a frustrating problem  with weapons like the Kalashnikov.  8)

[size=78%]  [/size]

Unless you get the magnum judge (which shoots the .454 Casul), or you go for a smaller concealed type Judge, I'd suggest getting a S&W Governor;  You get six in the chamber as opposed to the Judge's 5.  Sort of a big deal in a revolver. I rock a PDX candy cane load.


For the record, I don't believe I've had a single jam with my AK. The Walther on the other hand will jam, quite often actually, unless I am using rounds from a specific manufacturer that puts a faint, wax coating on the brass. Huge difference.

Keep the P22 a greasy pig (with Break free/ballistiol, or Hi-Slip grease on the plastic-to-metal pieces), polish the feed ramp, polish the right side lip of your mags. 

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #217 on: May 17, 2013, 01:26:06 PM »
kuz i wunt tuh keel pipple.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #218 on: May 17, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »
kuz i wunt tuh keel pipple.
Marital aides?
I actually know a guy that fucked a girl with a shotgun.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #219 on: May 17, 2013, 01:59:35 PM »
Keep the P22 a greasy pig (with Break free/ballistiol, or Hi-Slip grease on the plastic-to-metal pieces), polish the feed ramp, polish the right side lip of your mags.
Glad to see you still pokin your head in here from time to time SanShiSan. Long time no speak.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #220 on: May 17, 2013, 10:55:40 PM »
Glad to see you still pokin your head in here from time to time SanShiSan. Long time no speak.

Thanks GJJ.  I like to come back and make sure most of you are still fighting the good fight.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #221 on: May 18, 2013, 03:50:24 AM »
I find it disturbing that someone else is obsessed over what tools another citizen owns.  Why don't they mind their own fuckin' business? It's not like it will accidentally go off and destroy the city. Get a life.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #222 on: May 18, 2013, 05:01:43 AM »
I find it disturbing that someone else is obsessed over what tools another citizen owns.  Why don't they mind their own fuckin' business? It's not like it will accidentally go off and destroy the city. Get a life.


This is exactly why the people that want gun control continue. Guns do not destroy cities; but they can destroy lives. Guns maybe tools but they are at a different "standard" than your skill saw. It is time for all gun owners to become much more aware of the potential danger that every firearm presents. I see crazy every day. Sometimes crazy comes out of nowhere. I have seen perfectly normal people with no history, personal or family, become completely irrational and dangerous. The point there is, as much as many want to deny it, it can happen to anyone, anytime.


I have not even touched on the mildly sociopathic that with very little motivation would kill someone if they had the chance. It is too easy to look just at one's own life situation and feel completely safe. Even that is a fool's paradise. But not looking at the big picture and making a statement that other's need to get a life tells me your life is way too limited.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #223 on: May 18, 2013, 05:35:00 AM »

This is exactly why the people that want gun control continue. Guns do not destroy cities; but they can destroy lives. Guns maybe tools but they are at a different "standard" than your skill saw. It is time for all gun owners to become much more aware of the potential danger that every firearm presents. I see crazy every day. Sometimes crazy comes out of nowhere. I have seen perfectly normal people with no history, personal or family, become completely irrational and dangerous. The point there is, as much as many want to deny it, it can happen to anyone, anytime.


I have not even touched on the mildly sociopathic that with very little motivation would kill someone if they had the chance. It is too easy to look just at one's own life situation and feel completely safe. Even that is a fool's paradise. But not looking at the big picture and making a statement that other's need to get a life tells me your life is way too limited.




Oh Onan mate, stop making sense. It's too confusing.


Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #225 on: May 18, 2013, 06:01:25 AM »

This is exactly why the people that want gun control continue. Guns do not destroy cities; but they can destroy lives. Guns maybe tools but they are at a different "standard" than your skill saw. It is time for all gun owners to become much more aware of the potential danger that every firearm presents. I see crazy every day. Sometimes crazy comes out of nowhere. I have seen perfectly normal people with no history, personal or family, become completely irrational and dangerous. The point there is, as much as many want to deny it, it can happen to anyone, anytime.
Perhaps your view is colored by the fact that you do see crazies every day.  I went through a period when I saw criminals every day and found my view of society colored by that.  I wonder if there are a significant number of non-crazy gun owners who are not aware of the potential danger of firearms. Some, perhaps we can colloquially refer to them as nuts rather than crazy, probably own guns for the potential danger to others.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #226 on: May 18, 2013, 06:23:01 AM »
Perhaps your view is colored by the fact that you do see crazies every day.  I went through a period when I saw criminals every day and found my view of society colored by that.  I wonder if there are a significant number of non-crazy gun owners who are not aware of the potential danger of firearms. Some, perhaps we can colloquially refer to them as nuts rather than crazy, probably own guns for the potential danger to others.


I am not sure how that changes anything. Crazies are those that are out of control. Nuts are those that follow the statement of Phill Gramm, of which I belong.


Quote
"I have as many guns as I need, but I don't have as many guns as I want."

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #227 on: May 18, 2013, 09:45:38 PM »

This is exactly why the people that want gun control continue. Guns do not destroy cities; but they can destroy lives. Guns maybe tools but they are at a different "standard" than your skill saw. It is time for all gun owners to become much more aware of the potential danger that every firearm presents. I see crazy every day. Sometimes crazy comes out of nowhere. I have seen perfectly normal people with no history, personal or family, become completely irrational and dangerous. The point there is, as much as many want to deny it, it can happen to anyone, anytime.


I have not even touched on the mildly sociopathic that with very little motivation would kill someone if they had the chance. It is too easy to look just at one's own life situation and feel completely safe. Even that is a fool's paradise. But not looking at the big picture and making a statement that other's need to get a life tells me your life is way too limited.

All sorts of things can destroy lives when in the hands of crazy and sociopathic. Some crazy can just jerk the wheel and mow down a few dozen off the sidewalk. There is actually very little risk of an expensive "assault rifle" ever being used to kill anyone. Statistically it's almost zero. You're more likely to be killed by lightning. They've just become the boogey man to take the place of a whole host of societal issues people would rather not talk about. I think the bulwark for freedom and personal liberty and security provided by firearms is a reward that far outweighs the risk. If you don't, that's fine, but personal weapons or tools that require intent to operate are not to blame for the crimes of the operator.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #228 on: May 18, 2013, 09:52:11 PM »
What we are really dealing with here isn't guns, we are dealing with two diametric outlooks on society, morality, and personal responsibility. The gun control argument is really just a symbol of that.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #229 on: May 19, 2013, 03:10:33 AM »
What we are really dealing with here isn't guns, we are dealing with two diametric outlooks on society, morality, and personal responsibility. The gun control argument is really just a symbol of that.


So how would you determine who and who isn't responsible and moral? To become competent and experienced in any notable skill or profession requires a modicum of intelligence (to a lesser or greater degree). Hours, days, weeks or years of training, more training, skill development, assessment, re-evaluation, and more improvement. The very good quite quickly rise to the top, the less good fade away. Selection to be a fighter pilot for example is ongoing, from day one. Very very few of the initial very good intake, ever sit in the cockpit of a jet fighter. And even fewer are selected to go on to be on the front line. I was told by someone close to the Army air corp (Uk helicopter regiment) that the aspiring Apache pilots on the first selection are the top 5% of military helicopter pilots (who are themselves the best)..of those 5%, fewer than 10% will finally go on to be Apache pilots.


If you cannot assess with any meaningful certainty that someone who has a firearm is a) rational b) competent c) entitled. You have problems. The pro gun 'at any cost' lobby won't allow the scales to fall from their eyes. Guns kill people. It's avoidable. If it had been discovered today, I very much doubt that tobacco and alcohol would be classed as anything other than class A drugs. Beer came about because a lot of water at the time was undrinkable unless it was straight from the spring, beer was a method to drink a clean liquid. Tobacco kills more people than all class A narcotics combined..Back as recently as the 50's there were televison adverts with doctors saying how good smoking was for you! Fortunately we've moved n, but it still doesn't stop the industry promoting what they do as a good thing.


There is every possibility that back in the 1770's, they too had a less than firm grasp of what the future would hold (I'd say it's a dead cert). Who would have predicted in 1900 that the first powered flight and manned flight to the moon, and a space station would happen in the same century? If the US population at large is terrified of their own government's nefarious intent, (Which is the underlying justification for everyone holding firearms) then hold a referendum to eliminate the government. Make the Whitehouse a theme park; an annex of Disney world or something, and have instead a peoples parliament with no one leader and an equitable and mutually supporting utopia. In fact, why not eliminate the whole state system. Have small mutual hamlets all over the continent, self sufficient?


 

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #230 on: May 19, 2013, 04:12:32 AM »
... There is every possibility that back in the 1770's, they too had a less than firm grasp of what the future would hold (I'd say it's a dead cert). Who would have predicted in 1900 that the first powered flight and manned flight to the moon, and a space station would happen in the same century?...

 
The same can be said for the First Amendment.  I don't beleive the Founders intended the right of the free press to apply to the technology of today.  How could they?  The technology we have today was unimaginable then.
 
I don't see a Constitutional right to a free press using anything other than moveable-type Gutenberg style printing presses and town criers.
 
The Founders couldn't have approved of the Media we have today using technology such as Cable TV news to propagandize and indoctrinate 300 million citizens overnight.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #231 on: May 19, 2013, 04:32:32 AM »
Besides, if the citizens feel there's something wrong with the Constitution, there is provision for repealing any or all of it. It's been used before and works perfectly well.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #232 on: May 19, 2013, 05:19:41 AM »

 
The same can be said for the First Amendment.  I don't beleive the Founders intended the right of the free press to apply to the technology of today.  How could they?  The technology we have today was unimaginable then.
 
I don't see a Constitutional right to a free press using anything other than moveable-type Gutenberg style printing presses and town criers.
 
The Founders couldn't have approved of the Media we have today using technology such as Cable TV news to propagandize and indoctrinate 300 million citizens overnight.




Which you'd change if it were possible? Extrapolate that (hypothetically) to their disapproval of the current firearm situation. Do you think if back in the 1770's there had been a few school classrooms wiped out, children shooting their parents and siblings 'accidentally' with self loading handguns,  the founding fathers might just have re-appraised their thinking? History is littered with what seemed a good idea at the time being revoked or regretted based on the situation a few years/ decades down the line. Not to mention the Alex Assholes of this world who, bereft of testicles, needs dozens of surrogate balls to establish his masculinity, which he also tries to reinforce with his ranting and bullying. I've said it before, I wouldn't want to live within the same state let alone town as such as him; in my opinion he's the least mentally equipped to be allowed anywhere near anything that can harm people en masse. The most proficient professionals (especially military) are sometimes seen as quite reserved, even boring. There's a reason for that; they're measured, not quick to lose their head, able to diffuse a volatile situation if possible, can think under extreme stress in a quickly evolving and changing situation.. Alex Asshole armed to the teeth...hmmm. Scary shit.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #233 on: May 19, 2013, 06:23:53 AM »

 
The same can be said for the First Amendment.


And if the two ammendments used the same wording you would have a point.If words could indescriminantly kill people in a movie theater or in a class room your point would have some legs to stand on.



Besides, if the citizens feel there's something wrong with the Constitution, there is provision for repealing any or all of it. It's been used before and works perfectly well.


I believe that is why this conversation is going on. 85% of Americans endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 72% also want mandatory registration of rifles and shotguns.




All sorts of things can destroy lives when in the hands of crazy and sociopathic. Some crazy can just jerk the wheel and mow down a few dozen off the sidewalk. There is actually very little risk of an expensive "assault rifle" ever being used to kill anyone. Statistically it's almost zero. You're more likely to be killed by lightning. They've just become the boogey man to take the place of a whole host of societal issues people would rather not talk about. I think the bulwark for freedom and personal liberty and security provided by firearms is a reward that far outweighs the risk. If you don't, that's fine, but personal weapons or tools that require intent to operate are not to blame for the crimes of the operator.


This is a lot of words with no focus and certainly no following of the current discussion. Cars and guns aren't the same thing and if one is one is mentally ill with a psychotic disorder a doctor has to notify the DMV in the appropriate state to the patient's condition and if the patient is not compliant with meds they can't drive. There is little risk of a molatov coctail burning down your house they are still illegal. Anyone can make a boogie man like you just did. This discussion isn't about limiting anyone's freedom it is about who merits owning a firearm. Certainly there is enough reason here to see that some people do not merit owning a firearm.


And to add, since there is so much discussion about the second amendment, and that amendment is somewhat vague, how about requiring some military service to firm up the regulated militia part?


Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #234 on: May 19, 2013, 11:00:56 AM »

 85% of Americans endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 72% also want mandatory registration of rifles and shotguns.

I don't believe I've seen this before. I've you've got a cite, I'd love to see it.  I've seen that a large majority of Americans want background checks, but not registration.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #235 on: May 19, 2013, 11:31:54 AM »

I don't believe I've seen this before. I've you've got a cite, I'd love to see it.  I've seen that a large majority of Americans want background checks, but not registration.


1998 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago





Quote
85% of Americans endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 72% also want mandatory registration of longguns (rifles and shotguns).






http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/polling-data-on-guns/


Quote
There is extensive public support for background checks of prospective gun purchasers, from licensed dealers, to gun shows, to all other private transactions.  A poll conducted in August 2012 found that 96% of respondents support a background check on anyone attempting to purchase a gun in order to determine whether the prospective buyer has been convicted of a felony.  That poll also found that 91% of respondents favor preventing certain people, such as convicted felons or people with mental illness, from owning guns.1
Gun owners and NRA members also strongly support background checks for gun purchasers.  A May 2012 poll of gun owners – including NRA members – found that:
87% of NRA members agree that support for Second Amendment rights goes hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals; and
74% of NRA members and 87% of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun.2
A poll conducted in April 2012 found that 91% of respondents support background checks for gun purchasers.3
A February 2011 poll found that more than 83% of respondents in the five bellwether states of Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Virginia and Ohio, including more than 75% of gun owners, favor requiring all gun purchasers to pass a background check. Similarly, over 82% of poll respondents in these states, including more than 77% of gun owners, support requiring all sellers at gun shows to run background checks for all gun sales.4
A January 2011 poll found that 89% favor requiring all firearm purchasers at gun shows to pass a criminal background check.5 This poll also found that 86% of respondents, including 81% of gun owners, favor requiring all gun buyers to pass a criminal background check, regardless of type of seller or venue.6
A 2009 poll conducted for Mayors Against Illegal Guns found that NRA members (69%) and non-NRA member gun owners (85%) support requiring all sellers at gun shows to conduct criminal background checks of the people buying guns.7




1999 National Gun Policy Survey of the national opinion research center findings


Quote
General Gun-Control Measures
As Table 1 indicates, majorities support 16 of 19 general measures to regulate guns:
90% favor requiring that serial numbers on guns be tamper resistant;
 
82% support requiring a police permit before a gun can be purchased; A
 Support for a ban on manufacturing increases from 54% to 58% when the descriptor “often known as Saturday
night specials” is added. See Table 1 for full wordings. The difference is not statistically significant at the .05 level.
For the meaning and use of the term “Saturday night special,” see ref. 66.
81% want both a background check and a five-day waiting period before a handgun may be
purchased;
80% endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 61% also want mandatory registration
of longguns (rifles and shotguns);
80% also endorse restricting handgun purchases to those 21 and older;
79% favor requiring background checks for sales between private individuals;
73% believe that the sale of handgun ammunition should be regulated in the same way as the
sale of handguns;
70% agree that “the government should do everything it can to keep handguns out of the hands
of criminals, even if it means that it will be harder for law-abiding citizens to purchase
handguns;”
71% are willing to pay more taxes to increase police patrols to reduce gun injuries;
69% want imported guns that cannot be bought by citizens in their country of origin to be
excluded from the American market, and 55% favor banning the importation of all civilian
firearms;
67% want to ban the sale of all high-capacity gun magazines;
66% back the idea that all handgun owners should at least be licensed and trained in the use of
their weapons;
56% favor allowing concealed-carry permits only for those with special needs, such as private
detectives; and
54-58% want a ban on the domestic manufacture of “small, easily concealed, and inexpensive
handguns.”A
A narrow plurality of 45% believe that laws allowing any adult who passes a criminal background
check and a gun-safety course to carry a concealed gun in public makes things less safe; 44% feel
that such permissive or shall-issue, concealed-carrying laws make things safer (9% answered neither
more nor less safe and 3% don’t know/no answer).





2001 National Gun Policy Survey
of the National Opinion Research
Center: Research Findings


Quote
88% want to make gun-safety training mandatory before a gun may be purchased. 79% support requiring a
police permit before a gun can be purchased. 78% favor requiring background checks for sales between
private individuals. 77% endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 70% want handgun owners
to be required to re-register their weapons at regular intervals. 77% also agree that “the government
should do everything it can to keep handguns out of the hands of criminals, even if it means that it will be
harder for law-abiding citizens to purchase handguns.” 74% want to require that all new handguns be
personalized so they can only be fired by their legal owner. 73% favor both a background check and a
five-day waiting period before a handgun may be purchased. 69% endorse limiting handgun purchases to
one per month per buyer. 63% back the idea that all handgun owners should at least be licensed and
trained in the use of their weapons. 52% favor allowing concealed-carry permits only for those with
special needs such as private detectives.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #236 on: May 19, 2013, 11:41:12 AM »
...And if the two ammendments used the same wording you would have a point.If words could
I believe that is why this conversation is going on. 85% of Americans endorse the mandatory registration of handguns and 72% also want mandatory registration of rifles and shotguns....
I love these figures. I've seen these numbers tossed out by all the usual suspects. Michael Moore gives those figures the equivalent of religious faith. But they reek of the obscenely biased anti-gun organization's ass from which they were pulled. If those figures were remotely reliable, the issue would have been over decades ago. 85%!? The impetus would have been irresistible, and gun control would have been in place since the 60's. But that's not what happened. Because those figures are just one more bit of whatever-it-takes Alinskyian packaging.

Oh, wait. I bet The Evil N.R.A.™ has thwarted the clearly expressed will of 5/6 of the American populace. It has used its massive, magical Rovian power to block the clearly expressed will of a huge majority of the American voters. Or so The Approved Narrative goes. Yep, one telephone call from the NRA outweighs 10,000 calls from their opponents, right? And on election day, when the vast numbers of voters are set to rise up in righteous fury and punish their representative for ignoring their will, The Evil N.R.A.™ uses its magical Rovian mind power to confuse them (after all they're stupid, and need a caring federal government to take care of them). And the voters instead reward those who voted not to further restrict firearm ownership. Oh, the humanity.

Yes, the people expressed their will in telling their congressmen and senators what they wanted about more gun control. Congress was deluged with calls, letters and emails from voters desperate to have their will heard about this issue...except the voters were overwhelmingly opposed to any additional controls on legal firearm ownership. Isn't it funny how these congressmen and senators seem to know their districts a little better than the folks who throw around an 85% figure of those supposedly in favor of handgun registration?

Here's the problem for those who say they want more gun control: a significant majority of Americans distrust the federal government (particularly in its iteration as the Obama Administration) far more than than they fear the lawful owners of firearms. They've learned that absolutely nothing this Administration says can be relied on. Nothing is the way the Administration tells it. There's always a catch, a gotcha, some fine print, even confiscatory provisions hidden deep in bloated, massive bills which no one on the Democrat side remembered to tell the people about. We've learned through hard experience that the Obama Administration is a three-card-monte dealer, and we've been shoving bills into its hands only to see them snatched up and given to cronies.

One thing overlooked is that every control on firearms we already have was sold to us as the answer to "the firearm problem".* The bills' backers swore that theirs were rational compromises which would finally take care of the problem. Except, once again, and again, and again, they didn't...at least to the satisfaction of the people who are working to ban firearms ownership. Because at heart that's what this is all about for the vast majority of those who passionately care about so-called gun control: the Fabian assault on the Second Amendment and the ultimate outright banning of private ownership of firearms.   

The people have pretty clearly said they'd a lot rather take their chances with firearms owners than those who are running the nanny state. Change that and maybe you've got a chance.



*Which might be the nut right there. For many backers of gun control bills, the
"firearm problem" is private ownership of firearms, period. It's a case of intentional ambiguity. 

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #237 on: May 19, 2013, 12:02:56 PM »
I love these figures. I've seen these numbers tossed out by all the usual suspects. Michael Moore gives those figures the equivalent of religious faith. But they reek of the obscenely biased anti-gun organization's ass from which they were pulled. If those figures were remotely reliable, the issue would have been over decades ago. 85%!? The impetus would have been irresistible, and gun control would have been in place since the 60's. But that's not what happened. Because those figures are just one more bit of whatever-it-takes Alinskyian packaging.

Oh, wait. I bet The Evil N.R.A.™ has thwarted the clearly expressed will of 5/6 of the American populace. It has used its massive, magical Rovian power to block the clearly expressed will of a huge majority of the American voters. Or so The Approved Narrative goes. Yep, one telephone call from the NRA outweighs 10,000 calls from their opponents, right? And on election day, when the vast numbers of voters are set to rise up in righteous fury and punish their representative for ignoring their will, The Evil N.R.A.™ uses its magical Rovian mind power to confuse them (after all they're stupid, and need a caring federal government to take care of them). And the voters instead reward those who voted not to further restrict firearm ownership. Oh, the humanity.

Yes, the people expressed their will in telling their congressmen and senators what they wanted about more gun control. Congress was deluged with calls, letters and emails from voters desperate to have their will heard about this issue...except the voters were overwhelmingly opposed to any additional controls on legal firearm ownership. Isn't it funny how these congressmen and senators seem to know their districts a little better than the folks who throw around an 85% figure of those supposedly in favor of handgun registration?

Here's the problem for those who say they want more gun control: a significant majority of Americans distrust the federal government (particularly in its iteration as the Obama Administration) far more than than they fear the lawful owners of firearms. They've learned that absolutely nothing this Administration says can be relied on. Nothing is the way the Administration tells it. There's always a catch, a gotcha, some fine print, even confiscatory provisions hidden deep in bloated, massive bills which no one on the Democrat side remembered to tell the people about. We've learned through hard experience that the Obama Administration is a three-card-monte dealer, and we've been shoving bills into its hands only to see them snatched up and given to cronies.

One thing overlooked is that every control on firearms we already have was sold to us as the answer to "the firearm problem".* The bills' backers swore that theirs were rational compromises which would finally take care of the problem. Except, once again, and again, and again, they didn't...at least to the satisfaction of the people who are working to ban firearms ownership. Because at heart that's what this is all about for the vast majority of those who passionately care about so-called gun control: the Fabian assault on the Second Amendment and the ultimate outright banning of private ownership of firearms.   

The people have pretty clearly said they'd a lot rather take their chances with firearms owners than those who are running the nanny state. Change that and maybe you've got a chance.



*Which might be the nut right there. For many backers of gun control bills, the
"firearm problem" is private ownership of firearms, period. It's a case of intentional ambiguity.
'


Ya know Sardondi, I give you a lot of credit and I don't like arguing with you because you are a pretty bright buy. But your response here is nothing more than I don't like it, so it is wrong. I won't let you piss on stats without better refutation than some ad hominems of moore and alinski.


There is nothing irrational about a waiting period. There is nothing wrong with registering weapons... At the moment I have 6 hand guns all registered and no one has attempted to take my guns. The only bother I get is from the NRA sending me pamphlets and wanting my membership. That is as bad as it has gotten.


My only dog in this fight is that I truly believe there is a percentage of our population that shouldn't have access to guns. Most people should have the every right to own a firearm.


No we can't stop crazy, but we sure as hell can work against it.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #238 on: May 19, 2013, 12:37:52 PM »

The people have pretty clearly said they'd a lot rather take their chances with firearms owners than those who are running the nanny state. Change that and maybe you've got a chance.



Then arrange a referendum to disband the government. Disband anything that has 'government' even remotely implied.


 Let anyone who has never even so much as had a parking ticket have a gun irrespective of whether or not they're psychologically disturbed: (It is a supreme irony that a forum that discusses the mental state of various radio broadcasters, has a contingent who feel that is more dangerous than holding a firearm!)..Allow unfettered access by anyone at a gun show to buy what they like, no questions asked..oh hang on, that happens now.









Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #239 on: May 19, 2013, 12:48:52 PM »

 
The same can be said for the First Amendment.  I don't beleive the Founders intended the right of the free press to apply to the technology of today.  How could they?  The technology we have today was unimaginable then.
 
I don't see a Constitutional right to a free press using anything other than moveable-type Gutenberg style printing presses and town criers.
 
The Founders couldn't have approved of the Media we have today using technology such as Cable TV news to propagandize and indoctrinate 300 million citizens overnight.

 
Hopefully people realized the above was a tongue in cheek answer to those that say the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to modern firearms.
 

 
 
I'm with Onan that we should have background checks to keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't have them.  While realizing there is always going to be a black market for anything that's restricted.  I'm also with Sardondi that people just don't trust the current law makers to pass clean legislation.  I believe the true goal of too many currently in office is ultimatly to ban guns.
 
In a local news item, this week a 23 year old gang member was sentenced to 9 years for a failed robbery of Federal agents responding to his attempt to buy a grenade launcher.  This is the first time this person is going to jail after 6 arrests in 7 years on various gun charges.  I live in a pretty liberal area.  The people running things have lots of gun laws on the books, but very little apparent interest in enforcing them. 
 
My understanding is it's much the same everywhere that has restrictive guns laws.  Maybe if gun laws we have were enforced, then got clean background check legislation that wasn't loaded up with other anti-gun measures, people would support it
 
More gun crime equals increased demand for more gun laws.  On a national level that's exactly what 'Fast and Furious' was about - getting more guns into the hands of the Mexican drug gangs operating in the US in order to increase support for more gun laws.  I wish I weren't that cynical, but that's what I've learned watching the politicians over my lifetime.
 
 
On gun registration I have a serious question - what is the point of it?  How does it reduce gun crime?
 
.