Author Guns  (Read 94673 times)

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Re: 3D printing of guns
« Reply #180 on: March 20, 2013, 11:50:00 AM »
There are some in the US who think the UK should be invited to join the North American Free Trade Agreement with the US, Mexico and Canada.  They argue that the UK has more in common with the NAFTA members than it does with the Euros.

I heard some statistics that far more people are killed in the US with bare hands and feet than with firearms.  I wish I could find that statistic.  That would be interesting to know for sure.

Re: 3D printing of guns
« Reply #181 on: March 20, 2013, 12:49:04 PM »
There are some in the US who think the UK should be invited to join the North American Free Trade Agreement with the US, Mexico and Canada.  They argue that the UK has more in common with the NAFTA members than it does with the Euros.

I heard some statistics that far more people are killed in the US with bare hands and feet than with firearms.  I wish I could find that statistic.  That would be interesting to know for sure.


So if we replace children's arms and legs at birth with prosthetic firearms, statistically fewer people will be unnecessarily killed? Yeah, I can see that working, not sure you'd get it past Congress but hey, they're just old fuddy duddies who have no vision.

Re: 3D printing of guns
« Reply #182 on: March 21, 2013, 07:30:54 AM »
Public safety... We all understand the meaning. We have speed limits to ensure safety. But if we really were concerned for safety secondary to speed, wouldn't 10 miles per hour be a much safer maximum speed? Obviously we have some pragmatism when it comes to what limits we use.


(wtf does that have to do with guns?)


Anyone that tries to extricate themselves from the number of deaths by guns and the number of guns in this country is not being honest. The issue is what does our constitution say about guns. And to include the constitution puts no limiting by the number of gun deaths. So it comes down to a very basic equation, how many gun related deaths are we comfortable with? The constitutional right to own a gun is a very expensive right.



Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #183 on: May 10, 2013, 11:13:34 AM »
Stats released this week show that gun sales rising, but gun crimes falling.


hmmm

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #184 on: May 10, 2013, 11:26:25 AM »
Stats released this week show that gun sales rising, but gun crimes falling.


hmmm


Was that before or after the reputed 100 000 downloads for the new plastic printed gun?

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #185 on: May 10, 2013, 11:32:17 AM »

Was that before or after the reputed 100 000 downloads for the new plastic printed gun?


The statistics were released a few days ago, so it would seem that it was before.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #186 on: May 10, 2013, 11:39:26 AM »




Here's my proposal. If you have this look in your eyes you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a gun.
When you can see whites both above and below the iris, run.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #187 on: May 14, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »
I'll start this out by saying I don't own a gun and I don't intend to own a gun.  That doesn't mean I don't think anyone should own a gun.  But I do not understand - and I would like to understand - why people feel the need to be able to have all types of guns with no constraints.
Well, my nearest neighbor is a child molester for one. Two, I usually have at least one instance a month where my property/home is cased by thieves. I live half an hour from the nearest Sheriffs office...think they'll make it here in time if I call 911 and go hide under my bed??
 Occasionally they come to the house. These types don't come to party with icepicks and blackjacks. I've already had numerous property invasions. Other neighbor is a veteran of 7 tours at the State Hospital. A confirmed nutcase that tried to kill his wife last month. Yay!

I could list some other reasons/instances where I feel an AK-47 at my side is standard issue, but I won't bore you. You should see my point by now.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #188 on: May 14, 2013, 01:19:51 PM »
When you can see whites both above and below the iris, run.

THIS IS THE MOST RELEVANT POST I HAVE EVER SEEN ON COASTGAB. FUCKING RUN...POSSESSED BY DEMONS THESE FOLKS ARE!!!!

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #189 on: May 14, 2013, 01:47:54 PM »
Was that before or after the reputed 100 000 downloads for the new plastic printed gun?
Which means exactly what? Seriously, you're going to have to have to spell it out as to why you think this is some kind of zing. Because I don't recall reading that the demographic which has the technical, financial and intellectual wherewithal to download and thereafter fabricate a digital firearm has a statistically visible presence in firearm crime statistics.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #190 on: May 14, 2013, 01:54:03 PM »


I could list some other reasons/instances where I feel an AK-47 at my side is standard issue, but I won't bore you. You should see my point by now.


General, there`s no bigger fan of the Kalashnikov than yours truly, but as a practical manner, I would recommend The Judge, from Taurus. It chambers both a .45 cal. magnum round, and a .410 shotgun shell. This weapon has devastating stopping power and can intimidate with it`s boisterous retort.


Easy to handle, light weight, and fairly accurate. Additionally, I have never known one to jam, which is/can be, a frustrating problem  with weapons like the Kalashnikov.  8)

[size=78%]  [/size]

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #191 on: May 14, 2013, 02:14:31 PM »

General, there`s no bigger fan of the Kalashnikov than yours truly, but as a practical manner, I would recommend The Judge, from Taurus. It chambers both a .45 cal. magnum round, and a .410 shotgun shell.
Thank you for the input Future.
My favorite sidearm is a Walther P22 with barrel extension + laser sight. I am deadly accurate with this weapon and have outclassed competition with 22mag rifle with scope @ 100 yards.
Deadly accurate this pistol is. Quiet. Cheap ammo.. and lightweight.

When it comes to home defense, I'll stick with the Ak-47 for it's obvious room-clearing abilities. Gimme some distance and I'll poke their eyes out with my pistol with a level playing field.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2013, 03:24:37 PM »
Which means exactly what? Seriously, you're going to have to have to spell it out as to why you think this is some kind of zing. Because I don't recall reading that the demographic which has the technical, financial and intellectual wherewithal to download and thereafter fabricate a digital firearm has a statistically visible presence in firearm crime statistics.


I wasn't aware there had to be a demographic that specifically had an ability to fabricate plastic firearms either. I have no formal training to use such a machine that can make them, but the principle of what they do isn't that far removed from what I have had training in. Sure the gear is a few thousand dollars to buy, but they can be leased and the return good on prototype modelling.


Last week a UK journo boarded the Eurostar express train from Waterloo London, to mainland Europe..He went through several security checks, he'd manufactured one of the firearms, disassembled it to it's component parts (I think there are about 13 or so), squirreled away the firing pin, and the scanners and detectors he needed to pass through didn't find it. Probably fortunate for him really, because if it had been found he'd have been arrested and had some pretty serious explaining to do as the police showed him the business end of Mr Heckler and Koch. I just wonder if (and I hope it's never a 'when') one of these plastic firearms is used on an airliner hijack, with catastrophic consequences, there might be a groundswell of 'Hey, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all' by the public against the designer?
It's worth pointing out the owner of the company who designed it has described himself as an anarchist. Oh, and he's of course thrown in the 'liberty' thing too to give himself credibility. 

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2013, 03:39:31 PM »
3d printed guns are going to give new meaning to saturday night specials. I can't wait to see how Smith and Wesson will compete for the afghani gun market. 3d guns may well change the political landscape of many third world countries or it may turn the country side into a blood pool.


It used to take a craftsman years to develope the talent to make a firearm. Now someone with 5k cash and an internet connection can be making any and all firearms for his crew. I am not sure that is a good thing.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #194 on: May 14, 2013, 03:41:12 PM »

I wasn't aware there had to be a demographic that specifically had an ability to fabricate plastic firearms either. I have no formal training to use such a machine that can make them, but the principle of what they do isn't that far removed from what I have had training in. Sure the gear is a few thousand dollars to buy, but they can be leased and the return good on prototype modelling.


Last week a UK journo boarded the Eurostar express train from Waterloo London, to mainland Europe..He went through several security checks, he'd manufactured one of the firearms, disassembled it to it's component parts (I think there are about 13 or so), squirreled away the firing pin, and the scanners and detectors he needed to pass through didn't find it. Probably fortunate for him really, because if it had been found he'd have been arrested and had some pretty serious explaining to do as the police showed him the business end of Mr Heckler and Koch. I just wonder if (and I hope it's never a 'when') one of these plastic firearms is used on an airliner hijack, with catastrophic consequences, there might be a groundswell of 'Hey, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all' by the public against the designer?
It's worth pointing out the owner of the company who designed it has described himself as an anarchist. Oh, and he's of course thrown in the 'liberty' thing too to give himself credibility.

Aaaaaand so now there will be a mass of new terrible events as digital guns, their hour come round at last, slouch toward baggage check-in waiting to be pulled? If you think so, the answer is obviously to be armed.

This very scenario, with fearstorm following, was played out many times when Glocks came on the scene in the 80's.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #195 on: May 14, 2013, 04:20:40 PM »
Aaaaaand so now there will be a mass of new terrible events as digital guns, their hour come round at last, slouch toward baggage check-in waiting to be pulled? If you think so, the answer is obviously to be armed.

This very scenario, with fearstorm following, was played out many times when Glocks came on the scene in the 80's.


Well, as long as you're right, there won't be a problem will there? But it will be interesting if there is an incident involving one of these liberty lovin weapons that's brought onto the airliner hidden between two or three people, and undetected. No reason why the rounds need not be hard plastic either, might even cause more damage but not penetrate the aircraft skin depending on the compound.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #196 on: May 14, 2013, 09:23:22 PM »
Well, as long as you're right, there won't be a problem will there? But it will be interesting if there is an incident involving one of these liberty lovin weapons that's brought onto the airliner hidden between two or three people, and undetected. No reason why the rounds need not be hard plastic either, might even cause more damage but not penetrate the aircraft skin depending on the compound.

Somebody's trying waaaay too hard. These sound familiar, very much like Senator Chuck Schumer's talking points, which have whipped around to the usual left-side blog suspects like Daily Kos, DU, HuffPo, Talking Points Memo and the like.

But this guy says that "(i)f plastic guns are what scares you about 3D printing then you donít understand 3D printing." http://www.shellypalmer.com/2013/05/3d-printing-is-way-scarier-than-plastic-guns/ And the author is a techie/futurist sort, certainly not a gun guy.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #197 on: May 15, 2013, 02:25:12 AM »
Do you know what this does without looking it up?


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I do..I know what it does how it works and what I need to do to do what it does.


You don't need to, but I can guarantee you'll have had in your hands something it (or a piece of kit like it) has produced, some of which you might not have approved of.


Not being aware of what the wider marvelous opportunities 3D printing affords doesn't take away the consequences of it being used for nefarious reasons. Do you think the individual who put the files online (the self proclaimed anarchist) did it because he was thinking of the greater good?

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #198 on: May 15, 2013, 04:53:42 AM »
Somebody's trying waaaay too hard. These sound familiar, very much like Senator Chuck Schumer's talking points, which have whipped around to the usual left-side blog suspects like Daily Kos, DU, HuffPo, Talking Points Memo and the like.

But this guy says that "(i)f plastic guns are what scares you about 3D printing then you donít understand 3D printing." http://www.shellypalmer.com/2013/05/3d-printing-is-way-scarier-than-plastic-guns/ And the author is a techie/futurist sort, certainly not a gun guy.


I agree with you here Sardondi. The benefits of 3d printing significantly outnumber the negatives. But I have to point out that only looking at the numbers and not considering the unintended consequences of only one negative is concerning.


I am a pretty big gun ownership guy. But I do have a strong belief that the constitution is short sighted on who merits ownership. At the same time Pud's question about the motives of distributing firearm schematics over the internet is a good place to have a discussion.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #199 on: May 15, 2013, 05:40:28 AM »

But I have to point out that only looking at the numbers and not considering the unintended consequences of only one negative is concerning.



I've often thought that if some respected futurist or another had gone before Congress in the late 80's and testified that in ten years or less every 12-year-old in the country could have a box in his/her bedroom capable of delivering free, hard-core pornography 24/7, the Internet itself would have been smothered in its crib.

The hysteria by the ignorant and uninformed over printable guns will pass, and the wonder of 3D printing will endure.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #200 on: May 15, 2013, 06:17:58 AM »
It's neither hysterical or uninformed. And I agree, the current controversy will be superceded by another updated and refined set of documents. I'm questioning the motives and wider consequences that the mentioned individual and his company's products might be involved in..If it was simply 3d printing, why make a firearm that is difficult to detect?

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #201 on: May 15, 2013, 06:51:06 AM »
It's neither hysterical or uninformed. And I agree, the current controversy will be superceded by another updated and refined set of documents. I'm questioning the motives and wider consequences that the mentioned individual and his company's products might be involved in..If it was simply 3d printing, why make a firearm that is difficult to detect?

We can disagree, I guess. The current flap about printable guns seems to me to be a lot of hand-waving and political opportunism. As sardondi pointed out, we heard much the same misinformation when Glock introduced their polymer-framed handguns.

Not exactly a new idea, anyway. In the 1993 movie In The Line Of Fire, John Malkovich tried to shoot the President at a dinner with a plastic derringer. He smuggled the (metal) ammunition into the event inside a rabbit's foot on his keychain. (Not sure if that would work these days.)

The mentioned individual isn't simply about 3D printing. His project is about 3D printing a workable firearm, and the point isn't to make it difficult to detect, but rather to make it possible for anyone to manufacture his/her own guns. As has been pointed out ad nauseum here and other places, any reasonably handy person with a modicum of equipment can do so now in his garage. I'm going to stick with 'hysteria'.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #202 on: May 15, 2013, 08:02:09 AM »
We can disagree, I guess. The current flap about printable guns seems to me to be a lot of hand-waving and political opportunism. As sardondi pointed out, we heard much the same misinformation when Glock introduced their polymer-framed handguns.

Not exactly a new idea, anyway. In the 1993 movie In The Line Of Fire, John Malkovich tried to shoot the President at a dinner with a plastic derringer. He smuggled the (metal) ammunition into the event inside a rabbit's foot on his keychain. (Not sure if that would work these days.)


Indeed, I remember watching it..and if I remember correctly, the purpose was to assassinate the president. The plastic firearm being the means to do it.

Quote
The mentioned individual isn't simply about 3D printing. His project is about 3D printing a workable firearm, and the point isn't to make it difficult to detect, but rather to make it possible for anyone to manufacture his/her own guns. As has been pointed out ad nauseum here and other places, any reasonably handy person with a modicum of equipment can do so now in his garage. I'm going to stick with 'hysteria'.


Sure they can, if they have the skills. But why make it easily accessible?


Anarchist makes CAD files available online to make a working firearm that could be smuggled onto a plane, into a government building, school etc, and there is concern... and it's seen as hysteria by some. (Although I've never knowingly been in hysterics about anything, even at the birth of my son, when he and his mother nearly died)


Two brothers make  homemade bombs that kill and injure dozens of innocent people in Boston...and it justifiably causes outrage, anger and pain.


Which of the above protagonists has the welfare of humanity at heart?

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #203 on: May 15, 2013, 08:20:46 AM »

Sure they can, if they have the skills. But why make it easily accessible?


Anarchist makes CAD files available online to make a working firearm that could be smuggled onto a plane, into a government building, school etc, and there is concern... and it's seen as hysteria by some. (Although I've never knowingly been in hysterics about anything, even at the birth of my son, when he and his mother nearly died)


Two brothers make  homemade bombs that kill and injure dozens of innocent people in Boston...and it justifiably causes outrage, anger and pain.


Which of the above protagonists has the welfare of humanity at heart?

'Hysteria' might be a little strong. I guess my point was that the knowledge allowing one to make a gun is easily accessible now. This 3D printing thing just adds a new method of manufacture.

As for your concern about smuggling such guns aboard planes or into schools, as the movie we mentioned described, you would still have to get the ammunition in. I don't know of anyone who is suggesting that ammunition can be 3D printed. Technically possible, I suppose, to 3D print a cartridge case and use a ceramic bullet, but I doubt if any of the available 3D media would be able to withstand the pressures involved.

Anyway, the whole subject is more about liberty than guns, at least here in the Colonies.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #204 on: May 15, 2013, 08:28:02 AM »

I agree with you here Sardondi. The benefits of 3d printing significantly outnumber the negatives. But I have to point out that only looking at the numbers and not considering the unintended consequences of only one negative is concerning.

I am a pretty big gun ownership guy. But I do have a strong belief that the constitution is short sighted on who merits ownership. At the same time Pud's question about the motives of distributing firearm schematics over the internet is a good place to have a discussion.

My take is by far most of it is not very well thought out. It's the early tech adapters, people who dream about maybe being the first on the block to have the newest gen phone, or hottest processor, the car no one can get. Like they really have the printers and fabricators to make the code useful. But it's free and doesn't cost anything to store. Maybe one day they think.

Some of the dl'ers have done it because they think our current Administration is capable of anything. They dl'd the software because they know what Obama and his minions are capable of - and I can't blame them. It's gathering the nuts in Fall against the Winter when things may have gotten so bad that the only firearms to be had are those which you make yourself. Of course things will have to be some dystopian hell like The Road before it isn't the very definition of crazy to try to make it work, but it costs nothing to store the code today, and who knows, the government might try to shut down the free code dl one day. Oh, but wait, that's already happened, hasn't it?

Yes, some MIT types will find a way to fabricate some of these digital handguns. But so what? All they will have done is find a much more difficult and expensive way to build a more cumbersome mousetrap of limited utility. It's like trying to hold an old 40's Graflex camera in one hand. Awkward and ugly.

But being worried about digital handguns is like the autoworkers' union being upset about a book being sold which tells you how to hand-build a complete auto from scratch.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #205 on: May 15, 2013, 08:42:28 AM »
Can it manufacture pizzas? ???


Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #206 on: May 15, 2013, 11:05:32 AM »
Can it manufacture pizzas? ???


Theoretically if it were possible to squeeze the ingredients needed to make a pizza and it's numerous toppings, and a file with all the correct 0's and 1's, yes.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #207 on: May 15, 2013, 02:58:38 PM »
Additionally, I have never known one to jam, which is/can be, a frustrating problem  with weapons like the Kalashnikov.  8)

[size=78%]  [/size]
For the record, I don't believe I've had a single jam with my AK. The Walther on the other hand will jam, quite often actually, unless I am using rounds from a specific manufacturer that puts a faint, wax coating on the brass. Huge difference.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #208 on: May 15, 2013, 05:10:33 PM »
I've often thought that if some respected futurist or another had gone before Congress in the late 80's and testified that in ten years or less every 12-year-old in the country could have a box in his/her bedroom capable of delivering free, hard-core pornography 24/7, the Internet itself would have been smothered in its crib.

The hysteria by the ignorant and uninformed over printable guns will pass, and the wonder of 3D printing will endure.


I see your point and have to concede some validity to it. On the other hand as much as some will say otherwise porn hasn't killed anyone.


And not that I want to derail this thread but smothering some if not a majority of the internet would probably be a good thing.

Re: Educate Me on Why You (or Others) Want All Guns All the Time
« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2013, 05:35:30 PM »
 I'd be curious to know, Onan, what percentage of people in this country could be identified as porn addicts.  I am not making some big judgment about porn here, by the way.  But such addiction can affect marriage/relationships.  I had two students last year whose marriages were in serious trouble when they found out their husbands were addicted to internet porn.  Some of us have also no doubt seen some truly vile material online that utterly degrades the participants.  Sure, these people perhaps are of age to perform in such work, but I suspect a lot of them have serious self-esteem issues, chemical dependencies, and so forth.  I don't know if there is any evidence that exposure to such material (people having sex with animals, consuming fecal matter, suffering beatings during sex, etc.) has any quantifiable impact on viewers, but I think the question as to impact is worth exploring.