Author David Paulides Missing 411  (Read 36975 times)

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David Paulides Missing 411
« on: January 22, 2015, 10:38:00 PM »
I was listening to a repeat on Coast about mysterious disappearances in national forests. I have listened to these shows many times and they always get my interest.  It got me curious so I looked into David Paulides who has a few books about missing people in national parks. They are both recent and the cheapest I can find are priced in the 90-100 dollar range. Some are asking 600+ dollars for a well-used copy.

I find it curious that these books are in such demand as they were published so recently.
 Is it because his books were published in small numbers?

I find that many of the books I look for in conspiracy/paranormal fields are rare and expensive.
A friend of mine just ordered "Missing 411" both east and west editions at over 90 dollars apiece. The rest of the copies I could find were much more expensive. I expect copies below 150 dollars to be hard to find soon.
I also own about half a dozen alien/ufo books that are priced much higher than they were when I first bought them. A UFO catalog I have (a garage sale buy) is reselling at nearly 9 times the retail.
What I would like to do is create a "Book Alert" thread that is for the sole purpose of bringing new and potentially rare and/ or expensive books to light.
We all have our own interests here and many of us study obscure fields of thought.
If we get into the habit of alerting each other to potential collectible books in our interests, it may enable us to enrich our collective interests as well as fill out our libraries of strange and curious books.
I have no intention to sell my books for a profit, merely to sell and buy cheap, perhaps just for the price of postage,  to folks with similar interest before the prices get exorbitant.
Just an idea. Might be worth pursuing
 That said, does anyone know where I can find any of David Paulides books for less than 50 each? Or does anyone know here I can contact him, perhaps an email? I searched and I can’t find a contact email for him...thanks

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 11:05:57 PM »
Check torrents for PDFs of his "work". If it went to a printer there's an electronic file. Possible that's out there for the taking.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2015, 11:10:49 PM »
You can buy those books directly from his website for $25.

http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/Bigfootstore.html


Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 09:41:35 AM »
I was listening to a repeat on Coast about mysterious disappearances in national forests. I have listened to these shows many times and they always get my interest.  It got me curious so I looked into David Paulides who has a few books about missing people in national parks. They are both recent and the cheapest I can find are priced in the 90-100 dollar range. Some are asking 600+ dollars for a well-used copy.

I find it curious that these books are in such demand as they were published so recently.
 Is it because his books were published in small numbers?

I find that many of the books I look for in conspiracy/paranormal fields are rare and expensive.
A friend of mine just ordered "Missing 411" both east and west editions at over 90 dollars apiece. The rest of the copies I could find were much more expensive. I expect copies below 150 dollars to be hard to find soon.
I also own about half a dozen alien/ufo books that are priced much higher than they were when I first bought them. A UFO catalog I have (a garage sale buy) is reselling at nearly 9 times the retail.
What I would like to do is create a "Book Alert" thread that is for the sole purpose of bringing new and potentially rare and/ or expensive books to light.
We all have our own interests here and many of us study obscure fields of thought.
If we get into the habit of alerting each other to potential collectible books in our interests, it may enable us to enrich our collective interests as well as fill out our libraries of strange and curious books.
I have no intention to sell my books for a profit, merely to sell and buy cheap, perhaps just for the price of postage,  to folks with similar interest before the prices get exorbitant.
Just an idea. Might be worth pursuing
 That said, does anyone know where I can find any of David Paulides books for less than 50 each? Or does anyone know here I can contact him, perhaps an email? I searched and I can’t find a contact email for him...thanks


That's a nice idea for a Book Alert thread, I collect old UFO books too.   A good resource for me has always been Amazon, you can sometimes find cheap used copies of rare books there, sometimes worn and dog-eared but I generally don't care about that as I just want to read the book and not display it on a shelf.
My all-time favorite is The Mothman Prophecies by John Keel, now there's a book you don't want to read late at night.  It was re-issued at one point so it's easy to find.  When the terrible movie version came out I emailed Art asking him to interview Mr. Keel, and lo and behold he did that soon after.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2015, 09:52:36 AM »
I'd like to get these books. My uncle would like them. They used to be $50 on his website, if I'm not mistaken.

I did find a documentary based on the books. It's tiny and poor quality though.

https://kickass.so/missing-411-t9141905.html

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2015, 09:57:50 AM »
Recommend www.bookfinder.com for books, new and used, on any topic.  I always go to that site to check prices before I buy/order a book from any other source.  At least 80% of the time the book is cheaper on the site.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2015, 01:01:36 PM »
Duke, why do you think this is b.s.? I know you've said it before, but I can't remember. Something about the Parks Service wouldn't have anything to do with it?

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2015, 04:28:20 PM »
Duke, why do you think this is b.s.? I know you've said it before, but I can't remember. Something about the Parks Service wouldn't have anything to do with it?

Personally, I did find the stories fascinating the first couple times he was on, but by the forth time I really had my doubts.  I don't have any evidence one way or the other, but there is just something about his diction and repetition that makes it sound like he is perpetuating a lie, or perhaps I should say a tall tale.  I know extraordinary numbers of people do go missing, but my own inclination is that a national park is an easier place to get rid of someone you don't like than, say, Manhattan.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2015, 05:44:54 PM »
Personally, I did find the stories fascinating the first couple times he was on, but by the forth time I really had my doubts.  I don't have any evidence one way or the other, but there is just something about his diction and repetition that makes it sound like he is perpetuating a lie, or perhaps I should say a tall tale.  I know extraordinary numbers of people do go missing, but my own inclination is that a national park is an easier place to get rid of someone you don't like than, say, Manhattan.
I hear ya about a park in the wilderness vs. the city.

But the circumstances some of them were found under? I dunno. Too weird.

I wouldn't be so interested if not for the 'alien harvest' stuff. Are there human mutilations?

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 08:57:09 PM »
I hear ya about a park in the wilderness vs. the city.

But the circumstances some of them were found under? I dunno. Too weird.

I wouldn't be so interested if not for the 'alien harvest' stuff. Are there human mutilations?
I haven't checked out the books or the details of any of the specific cases but, at least initially, I enjoyed the shows. Certainly it is easy to get killed in our parks, especially if one is not prepared or going into the back-country. There is a, fairly, well-known phenomena of people taking their clothes off in the cold when hypothermia reaches a certain stage ("paradoxical undressing.") But some of the stories weren't in cold areas or in winter (though, at elevation or at night it can still get cold.) The only "issue" I would have is that many of the people had families (often right near them) and were so young. So doesn't explain how someone so young could get that far away. However, consider that girl who survived the plane crash and hiked through wilderness for miles at night to finally a house last month in Kentucky. Awesome story, though bad her family died, but IF she was found dead miles from crash it could go into Paliedes book as being strange. People, even children, can do some amazing things when pressed.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 09:15:55 PM »
Duke, why do you think this is b.s.? I know you've said it before, but I can't remember. Something about the Parks Service wouldn't have anything to do with it?

My problem with Paulides' was his ridiculous supposition US Army Green Berets were involved in some nefarious criminal/supernatural abduction and/or cover-up of same of a child in the Great Smoky Mts National Park.  I offered to help him with a FOIA request to Ft Bragg and to contact a couple Special Forces' vet groups I've worked with in the past to get the back story on why the GBs were in the Park, but he wanted no part of serious, professional research.  Although I don't recall calling his work "b.s.", I do question his agenda.
 
You may have confused me with a poster here who called himself "tensy".  He made a post relative to Paulides I still think is one of the best I've even seen on this site, certainly the only post I remember with footnoted references, to support his argument Paulides is a charlatan.  Here is that post from 3 Dec 2013.
 
Because he makes stuff up to sell books.  Twists facts and misleads his readers.

What I found most troubling is David's expectation that the national park service, not the FBI, should be investigators and keep records of missing people.
Why on earth, besides for making an engaging book, would Mr. Paulides expect the Park Service Police to investigate missing people. That's the job of local police and the FBI who do, in fact, maintain these records.
From the NPS website [...]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The primary duty of the U.S. Park Police is to protect lives. Police Officers are hired by our National Capitol Region and are initially assigned to the metropolitan Washington, D.C., area, where most of the force operates. Police Officers may be assigned to areas in New York City or San Francisco and may be detailed to any park of the National Park System on a temporary basis, but men and women who are considering careers as Park Police should expect to work in a large urban area.

He implies the Parks Service Police are covering something up is insulting and dishonest. Also dishonest is his record as a police officer. Paulides leaves off his arrest for soliciting celebrity autographs on police stationary.

Paulides' outright refusal to acknowledge paradoxical undressing as well as terminal burrowing, which are both related to Hypothermia. He is so dreadfully ill-informed relative to both of these factors that they could account for a MAJORITY of the cases outlined in "Missing 411"  The vast majority of the cases in Missing 411 are not bizarre or mysterious as Paulides would have you believe; rather they follow the general conventions of a lost person, especially if those people are suffering from the effects of hypothermia. The conspicuous denial of these factors enables Paulides to shoehorn his ideas into a serious flawed theory!

Paulides dismissed outright in his on air interview with George Knapp on Coast to Coast AM, of people taking their clothes off. Contrary to Paulides and his inexperience as a Search and Rescue professional, in advance cases of Hypothermia people do take articles of clothing off. Many of the cases where clothes were removed can be attributed to this. This phenomenon is described as paradoxical undressing. In other words, when hypothermia sets in, your skin feels as if it is on fire. This combined with an altered state of mind is the reason why people in advanced stages of hypothermia, take their clothes off. You think you're hot when obviously not. Compounding this is "terminal burrowing." People tend to take their clothes off and hide. It's also called hide and die. This may seem counter-intuitive as a number of people in the woods do exactly that. It is not uncommon for people to take their clothes off and hide just before they die of hypothermia.

SOURCE(S):

* Indian Internet Journal of Forensic Medicine & Toxicology, 2010, Volume : 8, Issue 4
* Rothschild MA, Mülling C, Luzar (2004) lethal hypothermia: The phenomena of paradoxical undressing and hide and die syndrome.
* New Scientist Health Magazine, issue April 2007: The word Paradoxical Undressing

On Sunday 11/25/26/12 with George Knapp on Coast to Coast (show title "Bigfoot DNA" available on YouTube) he told the story of a South Carolina toddler Jason Burton who went missing on and was discovered, according to Paulides, on a sand bar in the middle of a river. Knapp chimed in with "He could not have swam to it." I went to the local news station website (
http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/dec/16/33/spartanburg-deputies-searching-missing-one-year-ol-ar-2881997/) and watched a video report of the case. The reporter clearly

states the boy was found on a sandbar, "a few steps from shore." I went to the google map provided by the website and looked at a satellite image of the river. The river is clearly narrow and with occasional sandbars extending from the banks. I realize the image is not current but its strains credulity to assert that the sandbar would be in the middle of the river with swift water currents on both sides when the more plausible explanation is " a few steps from shore." as reported. If Paulides is as scrupulous in his fact checking as he asserts, how did he miss this? Is he incompetent?

These books amount to nothing more than grossly negligent and irresponsible journalism that borders on fear mongering in order to sell copy. Paulides is woefully ill-informed and ignorant of modern search and rescue techniques and as a result is spewing purposely deceitful garbage.

Sorry folks no government cover-up, no Bigfoots, No UFO's. All this Author has done is trivialized the deaths of many people, a majority of them children who died often under extremely tragic circumstances. There are still living relatives and by publicizing their deaths and asserting that they were all connected as victims of Bigfoot attacks in the mountains shows HIS true character and agenda. His character is rather evident and his agenda is bipedal and hairy with a loping gate. He has traded on their deaths in order to sell books and that all he has done.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2015, 09:24:21 PM »
I've found the Knapp shows with Paulides to be some of the most interesting, as well as unnerving, shows Knapp has ever hosted.  Still, I have my reservations concerning Paulides.  He seems to have some relationship with Streiber.  Excuse my not referencing the details, and even if the Streiber relationship is limited, I couldn't help but wonder if Paulides came-up with the idea to "play up" some certain vanishing stories with a paranormal spin after seeing how successful Streiber had been with his whole alien abduction production.  At least Paulides hasn't claimed to have been personally affected by the missing persons phenomenon, yet.  That being said, I'm still looking forward to the next time Knapp has Paulides back on the show.  If nothing else, it's good dark-of-the-night entertainment.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 09:42:27 PM »

My problem with Paulides' was his ridiculous supposition US Army Green Berets were involved in some nefarious criminal/supernatural abduction and/or cover-up of same of a child in the Great Smoky Mts National Park.  I offered to help him with a FOIA request to Ft Bragg and to contact a couple Special Forces' vet groups I've worked with in the past to get the back story on why the GBs were in the Park, but he wanted no part of serious, professional research. 
Wow.

You may have confused me with a poster here who called himself "tensy". 
You're right, but I'm glad I did because I would of responded - lets FOIA the FBI. Maybe the facts aren't spooky or entertaining. 

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 09:43:59 PM »
Paulides is a liar who'd do just about anything to make a buck

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2015, 10:15:34 PM »
I've found the Knapp shows with Paulides to be some of the most interesting, as well as unnerving, shows Knapp has ever hosted.  Still, I have my reservations concerning Paulides.  He seems to have some relationship with Streiber.  Excuse my not referencing the details, and even if the Streiber relationship is limited, I couldn't help but wonder if Paulides came-up with the idea to "play up" some certain vanishing stories with a paranormal spin after seeing how successful Streiber had been with his whole alien abduction production.  At least Paulides hasn't claimed to have been personally affected by the missing persons phenomenon, yet.  That being said, I'm still looking forward to the next time Knapp has Paulides back on the show.  If nothing else, it's good dark-of-the-night entertainment.
Strieber pumped it for all he could get. If you wanted his unique take in the last 1/2 hour, you had to subscribe/give him money.
So, the next week Knapp had Paulides and Strieber on. The big secret was that Whit knew of some tribal culture in Malaysia(?) that wouldn't go into to the woods wearing bright colors. Somehow that corresponded with Paulides "research".

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 10:21:00 PM »
Yes, Paulides claims people wearing  bright colors seem to be more susceptable. 

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 12:39:45 PM »
Paulides is a liar who'd do just about anything to make a buck


To make the accusation that Paulides is a liar would not be correct. It is well documented that the people Paulides claims are missing are in fact missing. So, if Paulides tells of the circumstances in which these people are disappearing, I don't see the lie in that. He has interviewed some of the families of those that disappeared; I don’t believe Paulides can embellish on their stories without repercussions from those families should they be so inclined.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2015, 12:55:54 AM »
If Paulides were sincere, he'd be trying to get Congress on this. The US Forest Service is not equipped to handle missing persons cases the way the FBI does .

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2015, 04:02:32 AM »
Okay, I called in to Knapp and Paulides and asked him about whether he had ever contacted someone in Congress about these missing person cases. Paulides pretty much blew off the idea, giving the usual conspiracy spank drivel about how the govt. doesn't want us to know what's going on and how useless it would be to go to Congress about it.

Then he said the best thing people could do is to send in Freedom of Information Act requests and DEMAND THE TRUTH! just like a useless conspiracy spank would.

 Massively disappointed in Paulides' reaction.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2015, 05:38:55 AM »
you all take this dude to serious. He tells a good story.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2015, 08:47:27 AM »
I think Paulides is solid. He tells it well, plausibly, and has a nice voice. If he embellishes somewhat for the sake of the story, frankly my dear I don't give a damn.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2015, 10:48:37 AM »
you all take this dude to serious. He tells a good story.
A good investigation reads cold and dry, terse even.  But you get the investigator to open up and tell you the details....
 With the investigators interest, suddenly, it comes alive.  That's why some court testimonies can become riveting and others put you to sleep.  Paulides does tell a good investigation.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2015, 11:02:26 AM »
Like so many C2C regulars, Paulides seems to milk the same story line over and over again, adding just enough new stuff to make the listener think its going somewhere.  But it never does. They may as well broadcast reruns. Has there ever been a C2C guest who said "This is probably my last C2C appearance because we solved the mystery and here's the answer..." 

Out of curiosity, I googled "National Park attendance" and and saw that 282 million people entered NPs in 2012.  It puts Paulides anecdotes in perspective.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2015, 11:09:51 AM »
Like so many C2C regulars, Paulides seems to milk the same story line over and over again, adding just enough new stuff to make the listener think its going somewhere.  But it never does. They may as well broadcast reruns. Has there ever been a C2C guest who said "This is probably my last C2C appearance because we solved the mystery and here's the answer..." 

Out of curiosity, I googled "National Park attendance" and and saw that 282 million people entered NPs in 2012.  It puts Paulides anecdotes in perspective.
I don't know if he is 'milking' it.  But I do get your drift.  The Missing 411 is his thing.  And he has done most of the investigation that is there to be worked.  New 'facts' or possabilities may occur or develop as time goes by.  That is the nature of an ongoing investigation.

National Park attendance vs missing folk?  *shrug*  It's all numbers and statistics til someone we know does go missing.  Then it's personal.  Then it's murder, misadventure, skipping out on shitty marriage....or a portal.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2015, 11:15:43 AM »

Out of curiosity, I googled "National Park attendance" and and saw that 282 million people entered NPs in 2012.  It puts Paulides anecdotes in perspective.
I don't discount that "something is happening somewhere" especially considering that "people are just whacked out these days"  ;) but in addition to your point above many of these people are tourists and city-dwellers who can often be unprepared if something goes wrong. They might not know how to use a compass, not bring water, not bring proper clothes, be out of shape, use drugs/alcohol, etc. Think of how many rescues you hear about in places like Mt.Hood, Rainer, etc for example. Now imagine that people don't tell a ranger or family that they are going hiking in one of our vast national parks or even worse wilderness areas or national forests (because less people there and more informal.) Then, in more recent times, you get criminality going on in our parks and wilderness. Drug operations (meth labs, weed), cartel drug running or delivery (places like Big Bend and parks near open-borders), illegal alien smuggling, crazies living "off grid", poachers (especially due to Oriental demand for some animal parts), even sometimes crazy cult-like people.)

Having said that I like Paulides because it is a spooky, strange tale and some of them do seem awfully weird.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2015, 11:30:34 AM »
Having said that I like Paulides because it is a spooky, strange tale and some of them do seem awfully weird.

Yep, me too. Suppose for a moment though that there is a tribe of savage, inter-dimensional flesh and bone eating Sasquatchian-hybrids visiting our National Parks…Are they on the hook for paying the Park fees like the rest of us – or do they get a free pass? What if they raise bipedal wolf-men and chupachabras for live stock? Do they need permits? What about zoning ordinances…? This does seem like an awful lot to put on our frequently underfunded National Park Service Rangers…Maybe this Paulides guy is ahead of the curve on this whole thing…

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2015, 11:38:05 AM »
I don't know if he still does it, but the last time I heard him do an interview he had a strange verbal tic - he would keep on saying his own name. It was 'Dave' this and 'Dave' that. He couldn't even tell a story without one of the people addressing him as 'Dave'. A very odd little habit.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2015, 01:20:29 PM »
...... Has there ever been a C2C guest who said "This is probably my last C2C appearance because we solved the mystery..

Yes!! No shame dames in like 1996 or something said he would do one last interview because the earth was  essentially ending.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2015, 01:27:26 PM »
Paulides is a grinder when it comes to research.  A skill he probably acquired as a police detective. He gets the  tiny details and he is able to track down witnesses which lends greatly to the narrative.

To Paulides` credit, he merely presents the facts; bizarre as they may be, and allows the reader -- or listening audience --  to come to their own conclusions. Although, last night he did speculate a bit as to what it isn`t -- it being whatever may be responsible for the disappearances.

I love a good, creepy mystery, and this guy serves them up like flapjacks at a 24 hour truck stop. And, as usual, Knapp does a fine job of keeping the show moving. Once again, Great show; great guest; great time!

I hope to hear him on the show again in the not too distant future.

Re: David Paulides Missing 411
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2015, 03:35:52 PM »
If people want to hate Paulides for whatever reason thats fine, but why are you here? There is more evidence in the missing 411 cases, than UFO's, Area 51, Bigfoot, Mel's Hole combined. You clearly aren't an Art Bell/Coast to Coast fan. The entire 20+ years show is based on unsolved mysteries and speculation. And if its all BS don't you think Knapp would see through it? Or is he a liar too? Which again if you believe that why are you here? For Noory and the Numbers lady?

Makes no diff if people like the missing persons topic or not, but if not you're clearly you're listening to the wrong program.