Author Topic: Windows 10  (Read 48211 times)

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #570 on: February 05, 2019, 11:16:18 PM »
Does Window 10's security cover downloaded browers too, or only the Microsoft browser on board?

There's a general layer of security that covers the use of the browser, but exploits of the browser code are the domain of the author of the browser.  IOW, Windows 10 will help but does not protect against everything.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #571 on: February 06, 2019, 02:03:59 AM »
There's a general layer of security that covers the use of the browser, but exploits of the browser code are the domain of the author of the browser.  IOW, Windows 10 will help but does not protect against everything.
It sounds like you're saying the other browsers are vulnerable.   

DPS, if you were me and you needed to use Chrome (downloaded) once in a while, would you install security?  Won't added security be incompatible with 10W.



Re: Windows 10
« Reply #572 on: February 06, 2019, 03:08:55 AM »
It sounds like you're saying the other browsers are vulnerable.   

Let me put it this way: some malware does things that are detectable by the security programs that come with W10.  For example, if the malware tries to install an executable file (a program, basically) in a W10 system folder, it will recognize that as something that malware does and block it (either stop it cold or notify you in case it's something you want to allow).

Other malware operates within the browser and is not readily identifiable by W10.  For example, if it exploits code in the browser to allow it to record credit card numbers that you enter when buying something online.

All browsers are vulnerable to the latter of these two examples.  That's why your browser might be really fussy about updating, so that you get the latest patches.

DPS, if you were me and you needed to use Chrome (downloaded) once in a while, would you install security?  Won't added security be incompatible with 10W.

I would not use Chrome, because like W10 it vacuums up information and behaviour about you and beams it over to Google.  It's as bad or worse than W10 in that regard.  So I don't use W10 (except within a VM environment, where it can't talk to MS), nor do I use Chrome. 

That said, if I understand your question correctly, I would encourage you to update any browser that you install to the latest revision as soon as you can.  Not sure what you mean by security.  There are some extensions that you can add to your browser (depending upon the brand) which allow you some control of how it functions (blocking scripts from auto-executing, for example).  I don't think that you are quite sophisticated enough with software to understand how to use them, though.

If you tell me what you are trying to achieve and trying to avoid while doing it, I might be able to give you better advice.


Re: Windows 10
« Reply #573 on: February 07, 2019, 03:35:02 AM »
I am an experienced typist.  I've typed on all sorts of backgrounds.  But what is this very faint, puffy, curved, kind of unstructured, cloud-like background tint surrounding typed text.  As if someone tool a water color paintbrush and smeared it behind and around every word.  Is this a Windows 10 thing or my eyes?

Be sure ClearType is enabled.


Re: Windows 10
« Reply #574 on: February 07, 2019, 03:38:09 AM »
Does Window 10's security cover downloaded browers too, or only the Microsoft browser on board?

I believe the Defender security client does integrate with MS Edge in certain ways, but MS lost my vote in the web browser department long ago.  Chrome has its own approach to security, independent of what MS has put together in Win10.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #575 on: February 08, 2019, 03:42:47 AM »

I would not use Chrome, because like W10 it vacuums up information and behaviour about you and beams it over to Google.  It's as bad or worse than W10 in that regard.  So I don't use W10 (except within a VM environment, where it can't talk to MS), nor do I use Chrome. 
I'll bite... What browser are you using? Firefox? Opera? Brave?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #576 on: February 08, 2019, 09:34:40 PM »
I'll bite... What browser are you using? Firefox? Opera? Brave?

Safari?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #577 on: February 08, 2019, 10:31:06 PM »
I'll bite... What browser are you using? Firefox? Opera? Brave?

Firefox on my PCs.  Safari on my phones, because I refuse to install any apps.  There's nothing on my phones worth knowing about, anyway.  I use private browsing, clear the cache, and reset the advertising identifier every day.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #578 on: February 10, 2019, 02:26:22 AM »
Thank you all for the information.  Thanks for speaking plainly to a novice.  That Clear control thing is really cool - I had totally forgotten about that.  9 out of 10 people would have just told me to see a psychiatrist, but no, the clouds I am seeing actually are real. 

I agree about privacy.  It's a crying shame, and they way now our logon id's are bundled into a whole slew of services instead of just the website we want to participate it.  I'd always been a purist, logging on the long way as if any computer were a public computer, never comfortable with shortcuts or the first-name basis of PCs.  But now that services are bundled (like if I want to post a comment on You Tube, I have to be logged into the whole Google suite I think), I'm forced into not being quite as anonymous/confidential.  For a while, that made me simply register with fake names, however now that some websites require a phone call, email or text to logon, location and identity are established.

Coercing consumer information has gotten WAY out of hand.  So I just put those things out of my mind.  Seems like corporations have outsmarted all my fake information or evasive techniques.  Even TOR was disappointing, with its anti-free speech policy at the time.  What good is using it if you aren't allowed to express unusual beliefs, risking getting put out.  I don't do anything illegal, I "don't have anything to hide", etc...  But, I likewise don't want my identity or other information just bandied about on the World Wide Web unless it's truly necessary.

And I totally disapprove of requiring email or text verification just to use a website.  That's ridiculous.  I am the registered owner of my logon ID and password so there is no need to call my phone, thus verifying my GPS coordinates - think of how that could be misused nowadays with drones.  And no website needs to send me a logon code via email or text every single time I log on, because it is linked to my real email registration information which is not their business.  They always say they just want to be careful because you are logging on from a "new device" or public computer or whatever, but that's hogwash.

I should be able to access their websites from whoever the Hell's computer I am with at the time, without having to prove anything.  For example, why does Employment Security even know or care what device I use?  In the old days, you just called them from any random phone.  Why should a device nowadays require its own verification?  What the heck difference does is make to them whose phone I'm using?????

Device verification is very disruptive and anti-social.  For instance, what if I was on a bus and needed to borrow a phone to file a claim really fast before the guy who owns the phone gets off at his bus stop?  See, the powers that be are isolating us, because in order to borrow someone's phone to quickly task through a website, I would have to go through device verification, burdening his time loaning me the phone plus it would be way too intrusive on his device because I'd have to access email or receive a text when I don't even know the guy or his phone number!  Sociologically speaking, we are being forced into individual isolation more and more and more.  First it was Facebook instead of Familybook.  Now it's device verification so you can't even just simply borrow a phone to make a quick contact.  And LinkedIn would do well to have company team profiles, not just profiles of individual workforce members.  Of course, if someone wants their device to be entirely their domain that's fine; I just don't like society forcing people to have individual devices in order to complete common tasks.  A phone used to be just a phone, not a representation of a person's identity.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #579 on: February 10, 2019, 02:34:27 AM »
I'd like to protect my W10 laptop from viruses and intrusion, because I know I'm protected when I use the default browser.  But I downloaded two other browsers and when I surf on them, I don't know if I need a firewall and an antivirus program.  And if I do need those, will they screw up the ones W10 has built in I ? 

I bet George Noory knows the answer.  One time I googled his avatar name & a really geeky computer forum came up.  Isn't that surprising?  Of course, there is another guy out there who uses the same name but the second guy is not Caucasion.  But, the computer geek website guy had a more Noory modus operandi.  It was surprising in its technical mystification.  I hadn't realized George had a third brain hemisphere hidden somewhere.  So, he's got the right hemisphere, the left hemisphere, and the Libertarian hemisphere, lol.  @gnoory.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #580 on: February 10, 2019, 02:36:35 AM »
I believe the Defender security client does integrate with MS Edge in certain ways, but MS lost my vote in the web browser department long ago.  Chrome has its own approach to security, independent of what MS has put together in Win10.
Thanks.  I'm so lost.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #581 on: February 10, 2019, 03:16:31 AM »
But now that services are bundled (like if I want to post a comment on You Tube, I have to be logged into the whole Google suite I think), I'm forced into not being quite as anonymous/confidential.  For a while, that made me simply register with fake names, however now that some websites require a phone call, email or text to logon, location and identity are established.

If that bothers you, why don't you simply delete your google accounts and use a different email client?

You won't do that, will you?  What will happen if you can't comment on youtube videos?  The internet might stop working.  In spite of all you know about how companies are mining your personal information like gold, as long as they dangle free shit and good times in front of you, the good times roll.

If google mass-mailed an email to their subscribers, telling them that in order to continue to use their products you would have to submit to being fucked in the ass by a google employee, you would do it.  Oh, you would piss and moan like you are here, everybody would.  Then some people would submit, and resistance would dissolve.  Probably 98-99% of the non-fake accounts would ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE FUCKED IN THE ASS rather than give up their google toys.  With Facebook, two years ago, even higher.  Now, maybe 85-90%.

I quit my google accounts in 2010.  I have not commented on a youtube video or a reddit thread or anything else that follows the social media model of give all your personal information to use our toys.  Any my life is full and satisfying.  I long for nothing related to the Internet.  You know, like mankind did for 150,000 years prior to 1995.

You want to use those platforms in the way that YOU want and not in the way that makes them money, and you want it for free.  Are you the female George Senda?  Keep using it and stop whining, or quit it and go elsewhere.  Those are the choices.  I'm 100% certain that you will choose "hey google, fuck me in the ass."

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #582 on: February 10, 2019, 03:17:35 AM »
A phone used to be just a phone, not a representation of a person's identity.


Re: Windows 10
« Reply #583 on: February 10, 2019, 03:21:35 AM »
My life is full and satisfying.  I long for nothing related to the Internet.

LOL! ;D

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #584 on: February 10, 2019, 01:30:14 PM »
If that bothers you, why don't you simply delete your google accounts and use a different email client?

You won't do that, will you?  What will happen if you can't comment on youtube videos?  The internet might stop working.  In spite of all you know about how companies are mining your personal information like gold, as long as they dangle free shit and good times in front of you, the good times roll.

If google mass-mailed an email to their subscribers, telling them that in order to continue to use their products you would have to submit to being fucked in the ass by a google employee, you would do it.  Oh, you would piss and moan like you are here, everybody would.  Then some people would submit, and resistance would dissolve.  Probably 98-99% of the non-fake accounts would ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE FUCKED IN THE ASS rather than give up their google toys.  With Facebook, two years ago, even higher.  Now, maybe 85-90%.

I quit my google accounts in 2010.  I have not commented on a youtube video or a reddit thread or anything else that follows the social media model of give all your personal information to use our toys.  Any my life is full and satisfying.  I long for nothing related to the Internet.  You know, like mankind did for 150,000 years prior to 1995.

You want to use those platforms in the way that YOU want and not in the way that makes them money, and you want it for free.  Are you the female George Senda?  Keep using it and stop whining, or quit it and go elsewhere.  Those are the choices.  I'm 100% certain that you will choose "hey google, fuck me in the ass."

Like you, I haven't been able to comment on a You Tube in years.  I can't seem to get anywhere with Google lately though, let alone figure out account closure.  I haven't figured out how to delete obsolete devices from Google or add new ones.  The issue was resolved by getting this laptop for Christmas, but prior, I had potentially missed work shifts because I couldn't access the employer app.

Did you know employers are requiring me to access Google Docs from home, even though I don't work from home?  My logon info for that is fake, & one employer was cool about it.

In my 50s with multiple health conditions, I am currently a hair's breath away from homelessness, with my possessions already being threatened.  Employment is my only income.  In gaining work, I am bitter but also terrified of commenting or participating on anything unprofessional online lest a potential employer not hire me.  I forgot what kind of work you do?

As for possessions, I just care about the photos, & have no known free cloud space to store them.  Not even sure how to do that with hard photos.  For a while, Google images can replicate the face of almost any pet I've had, but when I'm older without some photos, the memories would fade.  I guess I could try storing replicas now while I'm young; better than nothing & a heck of a lot easier than scanning a photo album at the library.  I tried storing photos in email but it bogged it down.  Someone put my dog on Facebook, but it's cropped badly.  I don't know how to do it but I guess I should get busy on that before I am tossed out.  You caught me on a pitiful day, sorry - really worried about my near future.  My S.O. is mired in medical bills, some are mine, & it's a long story.

Tell me how bad reddit is because I recently joined.  What about Craigslist forums?  We should be very grateful to Liberace & Bart.  I won't ask if you click ads.  For me, survival is at stake.

Until my longtime 18-year old cat deceases & until I find a place to store sentimental photos securely long-term for free, then homelessness is something I really need to avoid.  I lost all my assets after a sadly-timed layoff from a good, long career in local landlines.  I am currently being asked to move out & would prefer by far to be reamed by Google than the woman I'm staying with.

If I might say one more thing, you know, on the other hand, you protest mainstream web for invading privacy, right?  What about protesting TOR for not allowing free speech?  And for not allowing the types of material that people who use TOR really want to use.  I am a novice but there must be ways TOR could accommodate reasonable freedom without endangering anyone. As I understood TOR, it is a farce, whether it means to be or not.


Postscript:  JS, I corrected a lot of mismatched pronouns just for you.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #585 on: February 15, 2019, 11:17:02 PM »
Windows10 seems backwards.  I wonder why they didn't recall it.  Why even debut it.  Huge waste of time.  The only positive thing I might get out of it is a little tech saavy.  To be able to discuss W10 intelligently.  Other than that, it's very frustrating, time consuming & inconvenient.

Anyone know how to get Adobe Flash to work?  I clicked on the puzzle icon & told the system to do it, but all that did was remove the error and give me blank videos instead.  I googled it but one google led to another and another and still I have the same problem.

I googled it but still don't know where my Tools button is.

And now all ads from Ell and Bell don't open in new tabs anymore.  Major barrier to viewing ads.  Whose fault is it?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #586 on: February 16, 2019, 01:03:31 AM »
Like you, I haven't been able to comment on a You Tube in years.  I can't seem to get anywhere with Google lately though, let alone figure out account closure.  I haven't figured out how to delete obsolete devices from Google or add new ones.  The issue was resolved by getting this laptop for Christmas, but prior, I had potentially missed work shifts because I couldn't access the employer app.

Did you know employers are requiring me to access Google Docs from home, even though I don't work from home?  My logon info for that is fake, & one employer was cool about it.

In my 50s with multiple health conditions, I am currently a hair's breath away from homelessness, with my possessions already being threatened.  Employment is my only income.  In gaining work, I am bitter but also terrified of commenting or participating on anything unprofessional online lest a potential employer not hire me.  I forgot what kind of work you do?

As for possessions, I just care about the photos, & have no known free cloud space to store them.  Not even sure how to do that with hard photos.  For a while, Google images can replicate the face of almost any pet I've had, but when I'm older without some photos, the memories would fade.  I guess I could try storing replicas now while I'm young; better than nothing & a heck of a lot easier than scanning a photo album at the library.  I tried storing photos in email but it bogged it down.  Someone put my dog on Facebook, but it's cropped badly.  I don't know how to do it but I guess I should get busy on that before I am tossed out.  You caught me on a pitiful day, sorry - really worried about my near future.  My S.O. is mired in medical bills, some are mine, & it's a long story.

Tell me how bad reddit is because I recently joined.  What about Craigslist forums?  We should be very grateful to Liberace & Bart.  I won't ask if you click ads.  For me, survival is at stake.

Until my longtime 18-year old cat deceases & until I find a place to store sentimental photos securely long-term for free, then homelessness is something I really need to avoid.  I lost all my assets after a sadly-timed layoff from a good, long career in local landlines.  I am currently being asked to move out & would prefer by far to be reamed by Google than the woman I'm staying with.

If I might say one more thing, you know, on the other hand, you protest mainstream web for invading privacy, right?  What about protesting TOR for not allowing free speech?  And for not allowing the types of material that people who use TOR really want to use.  I am a novice but there must be ways TOR could accommodate reasonable freedom without endangering anyone. As I understood TOR, it is a farce, whether it means to be or not.


Postscript:  JS, I corrected a lot of mismatched pronouns just for you.

I sympathize with your situation, "sympathize" in the correct usage of the term.  I thought it was obvious that people who have work accounts or have to use Google products for their jobs would not be included.  Now that we have cleared that up -- that we are talking about discretionary usage -- I stand by my original claim.  Change it to Google charging you 50 or 100 bux a month to use the service, if that makes it less inflammatory for you.  If Google started charging 50 bux a month, 99% of the people with the capacity to pay it would do so rather than loose access to what they have now.  And just so we are clear, we are talking about people who substantially use Google services.  All of these disclaimers aren't really required, except they sort of are, when someone like you makes a strawman argument.

As for your other line of argument, I'm just an individual with a limited amount of time to change things.  I spend that time changing things that I can, with what I have, where I am.  So make a list of TOR and another hundred things that I could be railing against, it doesn't invalidate my argument to say that I'm not fighting all of the injustices in the world so I can't be sincere or correct.

I'm sorry about your situation and if you think there is a way I can help, send me a DM. 

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #587 on: February 16, 2019, 01:10:47 AM »
Windows10 seems backwards.  I wonder why they didn't recall it.  Why even debut it.  Huge waste of time.  The only positive thing I might get out of it is a little tech saavy.  To be able to discuss W10 intelligently.  Other than that, it's very frustrating, time consuming & inconvenient.

Anyone know how to get Adobe Flash to work?  I clicked on the puzzle icon & told the system to do it, but all that did was remove the error and give me blank videos instead.  I googled it but one google led to another and another and still I have the same problem.

I googled it but still don't know where my Tools button is.

And now all ads from Ell and Bell don't open in new tabs anymore.  Major barrier to viewing ads.  Whose fault is it?

My technique when learning new software or trying to fix bugs in things I know fairly well is to search and state the problem, including software/hardware name and revision: "Samsung 430 laptop running Linux Mint 17 disconnects from Internet every few minutes."  Sometimes you have to restate it, change word order around, add or subtract things.  But I have been amazed at how often I can quickly find someone with exactly the same problem as me and a solution to go along with it.

Here's a real world example, using a query from your post.  You can read my statement in the search bar:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+get+Adobe+Flash+to+work+in+windows+10&t=ffab&ia=web

I'll bet that if you sift through the search results, you will find the answer you need.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #588 on: February 16, 2019, 01:58:14 AM »
My technique when learning new software or trying to fix bugs in things I know fairly well is to search and state the problem, including software/hardware name and revision: "Samsung 430 laptop running Linux Mint 17 disconnects from Internet every few minutes."  Sometimes you have to restate it, change word order around, add or subtract things.  But I have been amazed at how often I can quickly find someone with exactly the same problem as me and a solution to go along with it.

Here's a real world example, using a query from your post.  You can read my statement in the search bar:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+get+Adobe+Flash+to+work+in+windows+10&t=ffab&ia=web

I'll bet that if you sift through the search results, you will find the answer you need.
How old are you.  I know how to search.  You sent me a list of hits.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #589 on: February 16, 2019, 02:01:25 AM »
I sympathize with your situation, "sympathize" in the correct usage of the term.  I thought it was obvious that people who have work accounts or have to use Google products for their jobs would not be included.  Now that we have cleared that up -- that we are talking about discretionary usage -- I stand by my original claim.  Change it to Google charging you 50 or 100 bux a month to use the service, if that makes it less inflammatory for you.  If Google started charging 50 bux a month, 99% of the people with the capacity to pay it would do so rather than loose access to what they have now.  And just so we are clear, we are talking about people who substantially use Google services.  All of these disclaimers aren't really required, except they sort of are, when someone like you makes a strawman argument.

As for your other line of argument, I'm just an individual with a limited amount of time to change things.  I spend that time changing things that I can, with what I have, where I am.  So make a list of TOR and another hundred things that I could be railing against, it doesn't invalidate my argument to say that I'm not fighting all of the injustices in the world so I can't be sincere or correct.

I'm sorry about your situation and if you think there is a way I can help, send me a DM.
I never asked you to fight all the injustices in the world.  You spend your time telling others where to let Google go.  Did you mean DM or BM?

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #590 on: February 16, 2019, 02:12:20 AM »
How old are you.  I know how to search.  You sent me a list of hits.

You asked the board how to "get Flash to work" or something like that in W10.  I showed you a search technique that has been productive for me in providing answers.  How many responses have you had to your inquiry so far, subtracting mine?  I was just trying to help.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #591 on: February 16, 2019, 02:13:37 AM »
Did you mean DM or BM?

Har har.  Send me a message using the Bellgab utility, poopsie.  We can talk maybe a bit nicer to each other.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #592 on: February 18, 2019, 04:35:13 AM »
You asked the board how to "get Flash to work" or something like that in W10.  I showed you a search technique that has been productive for me in providing answers.  How many responses have you had to your inquiry so far, subtracting mine?  I was just trying to help.
You want me to grade on a curve, lol.  I have my standards.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #593 on: February 18, 2019, 04:38:41 AM »
Har har.  Send me a message using the Bellgab utility, poopsie.  We can talk maybe a bit nicer to each other.
I promise to be nicer if you act 25% nicer to everyone.  You're either quite young, or a very senior guy who comes on like a bear just to be talked down.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #594 on: February 18, 2019, 04:41:06 AM »
Tap-select can ruin lives.  E-mails get sent simply because your cursor moved when the table was bumped, and BINGO, Windows10 sends the unedited e-mail. 

Disabling tap-select can keep you safe!!!!!

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #595 on: February 18, 2019, 05:11:53 PM »
Microsoft Edge browser can ruin days! Can't cut and paste between tabs and when you try, hours of data lost when the most important tab auto-refreshes.  Microsoft forum no help.  I guess this is why Windows 10 also ships with IE, but in order to make a short cut for IE on your desktop, you have to be a geek inputting backward slashes and drive names.  I've heard in other countries, computers just work.  That they don't deal with "optimization", incompatibility issues, or speed.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #596 on: February 19, 2019, 01:24:59 AM »
Microsoft Edge browser can ruin days! Can't cut and paste between tabs and when you try, hours of data lost when the most important tab auto-refreshes.

Yes, you can.  I just did it.  It's sluggish, though.  It's as if the legacy cut/paste system that's been baked into Windows for a reeeeally long time isn't being used.  As to the data loss claim, I'm not gonna bother testing that one out.

Quote
...in order to make a short cut for IE on your desktop, you have to be a geek inputting backward slashes and drive names.

you can't just type "internet explorer" in the start menu and then drag the icon to the desktop? 

edit:  No, you can't.  You shouldn't be using Internet Explorer anyway, though, and they shouldn't be including it with Windows in 2019.  I don't know why they do.  Surely an update will rip it out soon.

Quote
I've heard in other countries, computers just work.  That they don't deal with "optimization", incompatibility issues, or speed.

I'm in the USA and I don't feel like I've experienced those issues with Windows 10, and I've installed it on hundreds of machines with a seemingly limitless number of random hardware configurations.  To me, Win10 feels like the cleanest, most responsive and stable version of Windows ever.  It runs far smoother on older hardware than Windows 7, and it's my opinion that Win10 is far snappier on a given piece of hardware than any mainstream Linux variant I've tried recently.

There are annoyances in Win10, but they can all be adequately addressed/configured to my satisfaction.  Perhaps not yours, but that's how things go, sometimes.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #597 on: February 19, 2019, 01:45:56 AM »
...they shouldn't be including it with Windows in 2019.  I don't know why they do.  Surely an update will rip it out soon.

Here's why:

Quote
"We recognize some enterprises have legacy web sites that use older technologies designed only for Internet Explorer, such as custom ActiveX controls and Browser Helper Objects," says Jason Weber, program manager of Internet Explorer. "For these users, Internet Explorer will also be available on Windows 10."

Fine.  I get that.  But Microsoft will eventually kill IE.  They're not going to be including it with Windows in the year 2030 just so some gasoline cap manufacturer in Florida can continue running 25 year old ActiveX controls.  At the very least, IE should be available only as a separate download for enterprises who DEMAND it, and during download/installation, the user should be repeatedly informed of the fact that IE is an insecure pile of garbage that the web is no longer designed around.  It definitely shouldn't be installed and enabled by default in Windows 10, because it's definitely gonna get used by a percentage of people who just don't know any better.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #598 on: February 19, 2019, 02:07:33 AM »
Internet Explorer was shit from Day One.

Re: Windows 10
« Reply #599 on: February 19, 2019, 02:08:43 AM »
hours of data lost

Consider needlepoint.