The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[Theadora]

Hey, what's that red shit you got on your boob, there?

[Theadora]

https://www.space.com/39764-jupiter-great-red-spot-could-disappear.html

[Theadora]

"...Tarantino project could expand the (to coin a phrase) Star Trek Cinematic Universe,..."
https://trekmovie.com/2018/04/27/quentin-tarantinos-star-trek-project-could-set-up-separate-movie-series/

[Theadora]

Reinhard Heydrich as an SS-Gruppenführer in 1940
Deputy Protector of Bohemia and Moravia
(acting Protector)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich

German flying Bell was housed in a facility referred to as “Der Riese,” or “The Giant” in English. Der Riese was located near the Wenceslaus mine, within driving distance of the Czech border.
https://www.gaia.com/lp/content/nazibell/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDHR1Y_WfbU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOcimzsviFA

[Theadora]

Answer: None of the top 10 most damaging earthquakes in history. None of the top ten most violent volcanic eruptions in history.

Mauna Loa (Not Mauna Kea as Hoagland wrote on p.91 of "Dark Mission")

IN OTHER WORDS: Hoagland's ideas about hyperdimensional energy are a load of codswallop.

"The Lie is...

[Theadora]

Because Hoagland has lied (or, generously, "stretched the truth") about everything that he claims is at "19.5" across the solar system.  Both Expat and I have documented this.  The problem is that most people just accept what people tell them and don't check.

...different at...

[Theadora]

If one really wants to look deeper into this RABBIT HOLE??...

...every level." --Richard C. Hoagland

[Theadora]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEnxVwppE9M

[Mad_Martian]

Wow Theadora, ya wanted to drown out those vids or what? LOL.

Anyway you said... "While you have indeed made some amazing discoveries on your own, if Hoagland is still pumping out coded messages, then you are remiss in your duties not to deconstruct them to your audience.  Is it really just all about you, Gary? I look most forward to the Hoagland/Bell, collage."

I agree. BUT If you can understand how tired I am of doing these decided paintings? It may look loony, but it all is really hard work. And NO.. It certainly aint all about ME. But I am definitely about it as well as well as connected. Somehow....

yes I may make the video for it. It actually is part of a 3 part collage with also Howard Hughes I believe.

[Theadora]

Wow Theadora, ya wanted to drown out those vids or what? LOL.

Anyway you said... "While you have indeed made some amazing discoveries on your own, if Hoagland is still pumping out coded messages, then you are remiss in your duties not to deconstruct them to your audience.  Is it really just all about you, Gary? I look most forward to the Hoagland/Bell, collage."

I agree. BUT If you can understand how tired I am of doing these decided paintings? It may look loony, but it all is really hard work. And NO.. It certainly aint all about ME. But I am definitely about it as well as well as connected. Somehow....

yes I may make the video for it. It actually is part of a 3 part collage with also Howard Hughes I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9SW3er_jLI

[Theadora]

Theadora.. You said... "I find it strange that nobody has come forth, claiming to be a high school classmate of Hoagland, to tell us what he was like as a teen; that sort of thing.  "

I agree that sounds strange. But I was not there neither. LOL. He is like 30 years older than myself.

You said..."Maybe he leaves your logo there, to make it seem as if you are like a cartoon character that he's drawn? "

Hmmmm... Maybe... as he helped create me that is for certain.  That's also insulting isn't it?!

You said... "What if he feels that the content of the programs that he did with you, are more important than subsequent, personal differences?"

Then it is only helping as a confirmation then to what I found, and already tried to show. I or it, was NOT good enough. Look I tried to show that in this video, even using clips from that 2006 show to SHOW, YES.. YOUR RIGHT!

DE-CODING AND DIS-COVERING NASA'S CRIMINAL MIND. ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE3Lmuv5H0Q

You mean this?

[Theadora]

If one really wants to look deeper into this RABBIT HOLE??... I made a 4 part video. In 2014.
I titled it appropriately based upon following the data, Richard Hoagland Playing In NASA's Coded Junk Yard!
Walk through them to the end. watch and listen closely. TAKE NOTES NOT-SEES! watch Full screen view. See and capture EVIDENCES as well. ;-)

In the least, you all will be entertained. But Hoagland explains MUCH in an UN-OFFICIAL WAY. This all gets explained within these parts. You must watch them in order to come out from that ride with your mind thinking and readjusted. ;-)

You so called REAL LISTENERS TO HOAGLAND, should know what I just spoken of, he indeed has said similar things. Your consciousnesses must be changed so you can TUNE IN instead of STAYING TUNED... Cause many NOT listening to what he said over the many years using this code down through time which has been applied by HIM,.. &... THE SCRIPT!

he also always said YOUR NEVER GONNA GET OFFICIAL DISCLOSURE!! he said it will in fact,.. come from something in the form,... EXACTLY AS I AM BRINGING HIS UNOFFICIAL DICKCLOSURE forth for you all to SEE. It must be made SAFE TO BE SEEN,.. THEN HE CAN COME FORTH AND OFFICIALLY ACKNOWLEDGE THOSE RUINS ARE INDEED THERE! ;-)

Theadora??? Also within these 4 special unoffical DICKSCLOSURES,... You will see that some of the questions your having and thinking about was already answered. Juss sayin. NOT ME though... But HOAGLAND!! ;-)

is this NOT exactly the model in which Hoagland stated would come forth out from the ether? An unofficial reality that we can make real???
Serious minds will take note and notice! ;-)

Comedy and puns aside within these, you will indeed see a working model that explains this all.. STILL,.. MY QUESTION IS... HOW?

Well Theadora & others? Hoagland also explains about Theadora's INTELLIGENT outlooks, regards to smart n stupid. Hows that for a coincidence Theadora?? Your gettin your answers. You all just must trudge through this ride to see THE BIGGER PICTURE AND THE PLAY WITHIN THE PLAY!! ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvr5r528yMk&list=PLyf26BVJj6WYy2EKtIi50F2AhZrt_joyZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnvlKYgOCNg&index=2&list=PLyf26BVJj6WYy2EKtIi50F2AhZrt_joyZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ78MZYk6VA&index=3&list=PLyf26BVJj6WYy2EKtIi50F2AhZrt_joyZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOJySVF_q8w&index=4&list=PLyf26BVJj6WYy2EKtIi50F2AhZrt_joyZ

Along with these, moldy oldies?

[trostol]

wow..so in the end..RCH ended up the sane one lol

[Theadora]

wow..so in the end..RCH ended up the sane one lol

Gary works real hard to make it seem that way.  Maybe that's why Hoagland still advertises Gary's show, at the bottom of the index page of, http://enterprisemission.com ?

[crankshaft]

Jesus Frickin' Christ, WTF?

[Mad_Martian]

WAKE UP CRANKSHAFT!! SLEEPY TIME OVER NOW!

'SYMPATHETIC... RESONANCE!" Watch those 4 parts, and take notes and learn a thing or 2.. AS I HAD TO DO!!

Plus me trying to help you all to see it also. Especially since nobody likes to ask questions and DIG!! Hoaglands words here also. LOL.

Look like in pt 4, Hoagland describes it as this. ... SYMPATHETIC RESONANCE.
He goes on to say... "MY CONTENTION, IS THAT NAMES, & DESIGNATIONS OF SUBJECTS, MOVEMENTS, CONSCIOUSNESS, GROUPS, WHATEVER,... ARE FELT BY SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE SAME KIND OF POWER.... SYMPATHETIC RESONANCE!! SO WHAT YOU NAME SOMETHING, ... REMEMBER IN ALL THOSE OLD FAIRY TALES WHERE THAT THE WAY YOU GOT MAGIC OVER SOMEBODY, WAS TO FIND THEIR SECRET NAME? WELL IT'S COME DOWN THROUGH 'OUR CULTURE' (meaning scientiffic process doing a culture on something, in this case, his words.)  His secret name is... NASA! ;-) 

WELL IT'S COME DOWN THROUGH 'OUR CULTURE' ,... HOW REALITY IS SHAPED. SO IF YOU GOT GUYS PLAYING AROUND WITH THIS KIND OF TECHNOLOGY (the code down through time),... WHICH IS A HIGH LEVEL HD TORSION FIELD MIND GAME,... IT IS TELLING US SOMETHING THAT TO ME (meaning to him) IS SOMETHING NOT TRIVIAL!! EVEN THOUGH 'THEY' WONT TELL US DIRECTLY!! (As has been the MO till now we all can plainly see ay? Hoagland will not tell us officially. yet)

Hoagland continues to say...
"IT'S TELLING US SOMETHING BY OMISSION THEIR TELLING US, THAT SOMETHING IS GOING ON HERE THAT'S IMPORTANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO, AS OPPOSED BY COMMISSION.  .... AND I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIKE MUMBO JUMBO FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT STUDIED IT (this code down through time, as i have) AND DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS! (mostly all of you)

SO HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL BE COMPELLED, TO GO LOOK AT THESE 'IMAGES'. (these video parts of Richard Hoagland Playing In NASA's Coded Junk Yard.)  AND TO LOOK AT THE DATA,.... THE HARD DATA (which it indeed is), THE HARD DATA THAT STANDS STILL, AND ASK THEMSELVES (meaning ask yourselves, & him asking himselves. LOL.), IS IT MERELY COINCIDENCE, THAT SOME OF THESE ARCHETYPAL IMAGES ARE COMING UP NOW, (here and elsewhere in 2018), ARE BEING PRESENTED TO US, IN TOTALLY BIZZARRE & DEBASE CONTEXT,.. (which it is and has been) OR ARE 'WE' IN THE MIDDLE, (Hoagland and NASA are considered as being 2 different people yet the same)  OF A WAR,... BETWEEN LIGHT, & DARK (dark mission), OVER WHO WE REALLY ARE?!!!"


theadora??? YOU MAY BE THE CATALYST DOWN THROUGH TIME, TO WHICH NOW... WHAT HOGLAND SAID IN ALL THESE PARTS, AND ESPECIALLY IN PT 4,.. WILL MAKE THE NEEDED CHANGE OF REALITY. IF 2% WHO ACTUALLY THINK HERE... AND ACT AND CALL AND SEND EMAILS, AS HOAGLAND SUGGESTS THAT THEY DO, AS IT CANNOT JUST BE ONE PERSON IN THE NOISE. ;-).

THANK YOU THEADORA. I COMMEND YOU!!!!

[Theadora]

Definition of pyre
: a combustible heap for burning a dead body as a funeral rite; broadly : a pile of material to be burned ·a pyre of dead leaves
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pyre

amid
preposition      | \ ə-ˈmid  \ 
variants: or amidst  play  \-ˈmidst, -ˈmitst\
1 : in or into the middle of : surrounded by : among ·amid the crowd
2 a : during ·amid the fighting
b : with the accompaniment of ·resigned amid rumors of misconduct
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/amid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0J3oB21k4

...You were the anointed cherub
that covers, and I had put you
in the holy height of God...
YOU WALKED UP AND DOWN
IN THE MIDST OF THE STONES OF FIRE...
https://web.archive.org/web/20010804021902/http://mt.net/~watcher/stones.html

[Theadora]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOJySVF_q8w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUthmNKvYA&list=PLl2SxisdVRsz4f96PPh1W99zS3VOi9qs2

[AlternativeSide]

Fulfill Your Destiny... pledge yourself to the teachings.

[AlternativeSide]

wow....Hoagland ended up the sane one...

In tumultuous times such as this we are lucky to have Hoagland...

[Theadora]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG1QMIhmnC0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88_6SQKuTHk

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11702651/Andy-Warhols-oceanfront-Hamptons-estate-goes-on-the-market-for-85-million.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlhC0lEKzw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPhxU0vZh0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUtJ5FnwfCk

[Theadora]

Interview with Richard C Hoagland

by Paola Harris

Albuquerque, New Mexico
July 2007

Richard C. Hoagland is an investigator who gained fame for his claims that NASA has been covering up various space facts such as the truth about the Apollo moon landings, the “ face on Mars”, etc. Hoagland has worked as a space museum curator, a NASA Consultant and science advisor to CBS News.

New book: Dark Mission
Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA

PH: I never heard that Kennedy had a meeting in Vienna with Khrushchev.

RH: It was the first big summit.

PH: Was it just Khrushchev?

RH: Yes. It was a superpower summit between Khrushchev and the newly elected president. Remember, he’d just been elected a few months before.

PH: When did Khrushchev put the deal on the table?

RH: Later. About a year later.

PH: We’re assuming they had this conversation?

RH: We know it now because of his son, who is a scholar and historian at Brown University in Providence RI. In this conversation with his father about a joint space venture that he revealed that unbeknownst to the whole world, they discussed a number of issues. One of the issues that Kennedy brought up was, would you like to go to the moon with us? This is truly extraordinary. It’s always been a race with the Russians to get there first. You’re either racing to beat them, to demonstrate to the world that the Capitalist system is superior to the Communist system, or you’re going there to get something really important that you want to share with your worst enemies because what’s there is bigger than what separates you.

PH: How do you explain that?

RH: I think he knew what was there. The Apollo missions were set up to go and get their stuff.

PH: But why would Khrushchev do it?

RH: Because we were facing the Russians in a nuclear war that would have destroyed the human race. If you’re going to change the paradigm, you need a big stick, something that’s bigger than everybody.

PH: Did Khrushchev admire Kennedy afterward?

RH: He rejected the offer. Kennedy kept doing it, up until his death. He kept offering it again and again.

PH: And this was after the Cuban Missile Crisis, Khrushchev had some respect for Kennedy.

RH: The plan was like this. In September of 1963 Kennedy brought James Webb into the Oval Office and he proposed the joint space venture publicly. That’s on tape. We have that from the official Kennedy archives. No one understands what that means. They don’t get that this completely undercut the entire reason for Apollo. That it was no race. There was a bigger reason to go.

PH: Those guys got really angry with Kennedy because --

RH: Representative Albert Thomas, who was head of the Appropriations Committee, was furious. Basically accused him of being a Commie and of giving away everything. This was in September. He goes on record and he makes a speech to the UN. Public record. See I remember this, because I thought at the time that it was kind of strange. September 17, 1963.  Anyway, he makes a public statement, and the people who were most against it were the American press and the Congress. The Russian press and the Russian officials said nothing. There was no comment at all about it. Nothing!

PH: What about the intelligence community? How did they like it?

RH: Nobody here liked it. But the press was basically against it.

PH: How much press would you get out of the Soviet Union? There wasn’t much press there.

RH: There was none. So then, 12th, according to Khrushchev’s son, or we fast forward to November 11th Khrushchev suddenly decided to accept. And I looked at Mike Bara and we were putting all this together because I’m the one who realized what was happening, and I said there had to have been some specific meeting that made Khrushchev change his mind.

PH: And you found it.

RH: And I found it. On the 11th, an unmanned spaceship to Mars failed and he obviously got very mad at his guys and said you idiots, you can’t do anything right. I’m going to take up Kennedy’s offer because we’ve got to get there. Together. And from the end of the current crisis, which was October of 1962, they had all those months to build confi dence in each other as people they could trust. And he finally said yes.

PH: The fact that it was the eleventh, whenever I see eleven in anything, the fact that the Apollo landed, or any kind of eleven, is that out there, Richard?

RH: Eleven-eleven is another code for 19.5. I could show you mathematically how it works. After Kennedy’s bill in that appropriation cycle for the national budget came up for review, this Congressman Albert Thomas who, you’ll see in the book, winking at Lyndon Johnson on the plane right after Johnson was on the plane with Jackie on the program.

PH: Right after he took the oath.

RH: Right after he took the oath. And with Congressman Thomas grinning at him.

PH: You’ve got that picture?

RH: It’s in the book. It’s the one taken right after the swearing-in ceremony. He’s winking at Johnson. We did it. We got him. He introduced a bill that no NASA appropriation from that day forward has had any provision for the Soviet Union . So yeah, it was a discourtesy. You only tell these guys what they need to know to go and do their job as good soldiers.

PH: James Wood, does he know?

RH: James Wood was a 33rd degree Mason. He’s part of the crowd that wanted it all hushed up.

PH: so the Masons, the Scottish -

RH: The Scottish Rite Masons.

PH: Okay, because you have to make that clear. And you also said it was something about ruins on the moon, like the southern Masonry --

RH: The southern district.

PH: Southern district of Masonry. They’re the ones that know about this.

RH: Buzz Aldrin took their flag to the moon. He gave it to them in a ceremony; we’ve got the pictures in the book. Ph. Paola: You mentioned that the 60th anniversary of the Roswell crash is significant.

RH: This is the sixtieth year of Roswell. Roswell is like the benchmark of ET studies.

PH: The benchmark?

RH: Yeah, of course. Kenneth Arnold, sixtieth year of Roswell 2007…it’s not a coincidence that the book with the memo from Dallas this year that came out three weeks ago. Anyway â€" so sixty, yeah, I was expecting something interesting. In this sixtieth year, we have all these little indicators that something is coming, like O’Hare.

PH: You think O’Hare was our stuff , possibly.

RH: It’s all about revealing something. Not necessarily revealing the truth, but revealing something. Remember, you can make our stuff look like their stuff. People don’t notice our stuff, they don’t know that we have stuff. They’ve been kept in the dark. Even Art Bell was kind of amusing, because he sees this thing floating out over him in Verona, over the valley, this huge triangle, and wonders â€" is it theirs or ours? So when I saw this stuff appear on You Tube, Secret Apollo Missions and all that, it’s very simple now. It’s a secret space program operating under hyperdimensional physics. Which means antigravity. That’s how you take forty people to the moon. So someone, whoever wrote this story, is connecting it to the whole Masonic thing. He uses it, in the opening sequence of it --

PH: He’s connecting it?

RH: He’s connecting it. Deliberately. That’s why he picked the name Rutledge? Remember, I came out and I said his name is a code, which is why Robin looked it up. We found out this whole business about Armstrong, and the Rutledge, and Irwin. What does he complain about? That there’s Apollo 15 soundtrack mixed into this Apollo 20 footage. And that’s referred back to Irwin. It’s all codes, codes, and codes. The bottom line is, it says the Masons have been running a secret space program. It used to be NASA, but it’s now moved off in other directions, and NASA is basically over. NASA is obsolete. That is merely window dressing. It’s a diversion, it’s not real, and that’s not where the real power is. That’s what this whole thing is trying to say. This is validated by completely separate research, which is in the book.

PH: So NASA, from now on, will be that separate group.

RH: Yes, but it been there for a long time. As soon as they developed antigravity as a working, functioning technology, which I think was back when we saw the STS 48, then when you had the shuttle and it’s already over Australia and they photographed this stuff going incredible g-forces and all that. Around 19.5. Then the one over ICF-80, with the stuff over Chile, which was again over 19.5. On the 195th orbit. There is no explanation, no one is asking the question. I’m the only one asking the question.

PH: Okay, but what is the explanation for all the activity over the 19.5, because that’s where all the activity is.

RH: Ice crystals?

PH: What’s your explanation?

RH: Our secret space program. They’re documenting and doing short readings on the spacecraft we developed. It’s got to be done on the ritual. It’s a religious ritual. It’s transcendent. If they work the methodology properly, they will live forever. That’s what they think. Isn’t that what every religion preaches? Believe in me and you will live forever? For the followers of Osiris and Christ, the message is the same.

PH: And the reason why you say Osiris is because the space program is filled with Egyptian Symbolism ?

RH: All the major alignments are made to Osiris, i.e., Orion. Sirius is Isis.

PH: We thought all this was mythology.

RH: At some point, this may actually have been real, in the sense that we don’t know how it all actually began. Are we worshipping members of the family, a long long time ago? Where the mythology defines our gods? Anyway, bottom line â€" the whole story to me is a coded story, designed to tell us there’s a secret space program, NASA is irrelevant, it’s not where the action is, and there’s more to come.

PH: July, the seventh month, 1947.

RH: The actual code number is 19.47. It rounds up to 19.5.

PH: Why do you say ET is us? Who did you say is ET, aliens or us?

RH: ET. Extraterrestrial. It’s a designation of real estate; it’s where you hang your hat. Alien means different from others.

PH: You’re the only one who defines it this way, right? Because in the movie, ET was not us.

RH: But if you look at the language, it’s right on. You can be an alien and an extraterrestrial. He’s an alien.

PH: Is there anyone or anything else that’s like the aliens, like from Zeta Reticuli, and the ET is us from the future, from another planet like Mars or something? Is there anything written that I can look at?

RH: I have to think about it.

PH: That’s one thing that I heard you say that interested me a lot.

RH: Do you remember the film, The Day the Earth Stood Still?

PH: Yes.

RH: And they were in the hospital, and the lungs were the same, the heart was the same, and they thought it must be convergent evolution. Why were they saying in that film what they knew, that they had two different sets of extraterrestrials? You have aliens who are not genetically related, and then you have family, human beings who live in other places, on other planets.  It’s right out there in that film. Because Michael Rennie was representing the fraction of the human race that’s not here. Now if we fast-forward the film to 1969, Neil Armstrong lands on the moon and utters his famous phrase. There’s thirty years of controversy, which they tried to put their finger in the dyke and stifle…

PH: You mean “mankind” instead of man?

RH: Yes.

PH: Oh, that makes sense.

RH: Why? Because it was the message.

PH: Oh Richard. Only you could come up with this. It’s just semantics.

RH: “One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.” He was representing all of the Pleadians and the Nordics and all the other members of the human genome from all those planets all over the galaxy, and that’s in the book. In the final part, I decode that.

PH: Can I use this?

RH: Yes.

PH: Because most people I talk to think of ET as the odd looking greys.

RH: They’re ignorant. They’re taking their cues from Stephen Spielberg, who was misleading people.

PH: Do you know anything specific about who commissioned The Day the Earth Stood Still? I think it was commissioned by the government.

RH: I do too. Who was the guy, when he finally got his film after decades of us all pushing, who was the one guy Gene Roddenberry turned to for Star Trek the Movie? Robert Wise.

PH: So Robert Wise and Roddenberry and the vision of Roddenberry…

RH: Robert Wise is part of the in crowd. So was George Lucas.

PH: So they’re part of an in crowd of disclosure. The Insiders?

RH: Part of an in crowd that knows that the rate at which they are allowed to disclose may or may not be up to them.

PH: There’s an agenda.

RH: Nothing happens by accident.

PH: So the people who were on Mars are us, and then we came down on Earth, so it’s all us? Bradbury said that at the end of Martian Chronicles, that we are the Martians. They look in the water and he says look at that, they are us. He’s the only guy on my list of ten people that I never met. I had a list of ten people in my book, and I met all of them by accident except Bradbury. He’s the only one I haven’t met yet. He lives in California. Of course, he’s not dead yet, so I might still meet him one day.

RH: He was on Coast to Coast recently. George was off and they had a guest host, and he wanted to talk to, of all people, Bradbury.

PH: So I can get an archive of it? I admire him so much. I love his work, especially Night Meeting, with the parallel reality kind of argument. At the very end he uses those famous words which I use a lot, let’s agree to disagree. Because there’s no winning that. Anyway, so the name of your book is?

RH: Dark Mission: The Secret History Of NASA

PH: That sounds very ominous. So we were talking yesterday about the Rutledge thing, because it comes out ironically sixty years after the Roswell event. These are secret missions?

RH: We now know, as the book documents, that these people are ritual obsessives. They can do nothing without the ritual, and the ritual involves these numbers, like 33, 60, 19.5, etc.

PH: When did the ritual begin? It had to begin before NASA, right?

RH: Oh, yes. It’s an ancient religion, an Egyptian stellar religion.

PH: So who decided they were going to do the ritual?

RH: The Masons. Now remember, the Masons took over NASA.

PH: The Masons took over America, too.

RH: Yeah, well, they were part of the foundation of the country. But in NASA you had two other groups who were competing for power. The Masons, the Nazis, and the magicians. Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons, that whole wing.

PH: I don’t know what their involvement is, I’ll have to read your book.

RH: So they’re competing, and when Rutledge which of course is not his name --

PH: Robin looked up his name in an encyclopedia, and she saw that the words Armstrong, Rutledge, and Irwin are part of the Scottish --

RH: And remember what Irwin said was his big objection to the reality of this?

PH: No, what was that?

RH: There’s a bit of the soundtrack to Apollo 15 in there, which makes it seem like a fake. But it’s not, because the whole thing’s a fake. It’s all part of the message. It’s a complicated, multilevel code. Remember, I came out and I said, it’s all a code, including his name.

PH: Including the 19 and 20.

RH: Well, when you go back, the thing broke over You Tube about a month ago where somebody posted on You Tube from Africa ostensibly, the secret results of the secret NASA missions, Apollo 19 and 20, and that they went to this secret place on the far side of the moon that had been photographed by Apollo 15. So the first thing I did was to have my guys,
Laney and Troy, go to the archives. They’re both lunar people, they’ve done incredible lunar work.

PH: They had gotten you the original photographs, which had been severely altered.

RH: Well, we pulled them from a few different archives, and both sets of archives had been tampered with. It obviously had been done very early on, because now you can alter a photograph in PhotoShop and it’s seamless, you don’t even know. But this was like whitewash over the negative and when you brought it up in PhotoShop, you could see how it had been painted. Like somebody had taken a brush and painted the negative. So this corroborates what somebody like Ken Johnson said, about people painting negatives, which bothered him because when you paint a negative, you destroy the information. Now of course the original negatives will never be seen. So I thought, okay, some other group is trying to hide it. So then, when Laney put his results up on his website to have his people look at it, somebody pointed out that the artifact on the Apollo 15 images were at 19.5 degrees. And then he said, Oh, come on, you’ve got to be kidding. So he measured it. It was right next to Psiakolskei, and Psiakolskei was at 19.5. Then I realized that the secret missions were 19 and 20. It’s absurd that there are secret missions, you can’t launch a Saturn 5 secretly.

PH: If we’re assuming that it comes out of NASA in Florida, but could it be launched from somewhere else?

RH: No, because you’d need a huge infrastructure. And they had to be trucked there by ship. And then the Russians would have known.

PH: The only reason I’m saying this is because some of the testimony from Charles Hall, he saw near the Area 51range, rockets go off. He said they were launching rockets that went up in that area in 1965.

RH: It couldn’t have been launched from there. One of the stories says 40 astronauts. Apollo could carry three. Forty went. Remember he claimed that they were communicating by a tyro satellite, which was an earth weather satellite. Well that’s more of the code. Nothing in this story is what it appears to be.

PH: So what’s the code about the tyro?

RH: I don’t know yet. You have to go look it up, I don’t have to do all the work, do I? He could have made up the name, why put up real information? So if you’re dealing with a code, nothing in a code is superfluous. It’s all part of the code. Each little detail, even if it looks like it doesn’t fi t, probably does. You just have to think at another level.

PH: So why do you think this came out now? These are military astronauts, this is hard for people to swallow.

RH: Why? We had the whole Air Force dinosaur program, which was a pre-shuttle shuttle. There was a space station, there were supposed to be three space stations.

PH: We have this wonderment about traveling among the planets and stars and discovering space, and when you shove the word “military” in there it gives the space exploration a whole other meaning to the wonderment that we had in the sixties when Kennedy said we would shoot for the stars.

RH: That was a lie.

PH: What part was a lie?

RH: That it was non-military. There was never a part that was nonmilitary. In the book I show in NASA’s own charter, that it says it was part of the Defense Department.

PH: Wasn’t it supposed to be a civilian organization?

RH: That’s the public spin. And that’s the lie. This book is going to open a lot of eyes, because we document everything.

PH: It’s going to be hard for people to digest this lie.

RH: After Iraq, with no weapons of mass destruction, and a war that’s cost three thousand lives, for nothing? 70-80% of Americans believe that.

PH: The big question is what is NASA’s agenda?

RH: Initially, it was formed around available technology to grow as fast as it could, to get to the moon, and bring back technology.

PH: Alien technology?

RH: No, ours. Stuff left there by the family a very long time ago. Which these guys think they’re the heirs to, that it’s their stuff. And they think they’re the bloodline that deserves to have sole access. They’re not telling anybody else. It’s all about, “they can’t have that, that’s mine.”

PH: Is that alien technology, or our ET technology? Is it an either/or, does it have to be?

RH: The fact that they act like it’s theirs â€" remember, we’re talking about elite bloodlines, families, secret societies to think they’re special, they’re related â€" it’s about who owns it. That’s the attitude. No one is admitting, nor will they ever want to admit, that there’s more family. That’s why the whole thing about Armstrong’s first line is so important.

PH: They don’t want to admit that they’re aliens, they just want --

RH: ETs, not aliens. It’s the ET part they’re covering up, that we’re only one subset of a bigger mankind.

PH: But even the ones that don’t look like us, that are kind of small, and inbred, those are not from another planet?

RH: A jury can make anything out of it.

PH: Genetic engineering can have worker bees.

RH: There are all kinds of models.

PH: So in this model, it’s all us. Those people are the past. So are we looking at what could be their future?

RH: Well, the stuff is there from the past.

PH: I have a lot of stories where US from the future comes back to tell us that, and it gets very tricky.

RH: Telling you stuff and being able to transmit technology are two different things. Information may be able to travel through time, but physical objects may not.

PH: So we’re dealing with an ancient past that is us, and we’re just reclaiming our stuff .

RH: Well I think that’s what they think. Because they act very territorial, very provincial. Like you can’t have it, that’s mine. And when Kennedy tried to share it, they killed him.

PH: Why did Kennedy want to share it with the Russians?

RH: Yes, as with one planet. Because the planet almost killed itself with nuclear war. He came a whisper away from the Cuban missile crisis. So he and Khrushchev realized they needed something bigger to get everybody to stop fighting each other. There are many reasons people are in it for because it’s never been about UFOs. Particularly now that Walter Haut has risen from the grave and has given them what they’ve been looking for; that he saw the alien bodies in Roswell.

PH: You are right Richard. We are still a primitive tribe fighting over that scrap of land, over ideologies, over everything. It is nuts!

RH: Are we getting a real look into the field?

PH: So Walter Haut â€" and you think that’s a program, sixtieth â€" and you expect more this year?

RH: Is the Pope Catholic?

PH: So the ultimate agenda for NASA is to get back the stuff they think is theirs in the first place.

RH: Yes.

PH: Now does all of NASA know this, or just part of NASA?

RH: No the lies are different at every level. It’s in the book. Originally, in 1958 â€" remember, the space program began as a competing set of military eff orts. The Marines, the Navy, the Air Force, they were all competing with each other to go to the moon, launch satellites, beat the Russians. The services have always competed.

PH: What Ex Canadian minister of Defense Paul Hellyer said he was doing in the sixties was a monumental task of joining all the services together. One service, one thing he said because in America they were all fighting each other.

RH: So what Eisenhower did, obviously on the recommendation of people pulling the strings behind the scenes, was to create a separate space agency outside of the military services that would be technically still under the national security directives. The National Security Council, the Pentagon, the DOD, but would look like it was civilian. In fact, it’s not. That was another lie. It’s a cover. It’s always a cover.

PH: Eisenhower was the first one to put it together.

RH: Yes, in July of 1958.

PH: Eisenhower knew a lot.

RH: So what did he warn when he quit? At the end of his term, he warned against the military-industrial complex. He saw the coming Fascist state. And he obviously was forced to do things that he was trying to warn people about.

PH: Do you think part of that is because you believe the meeting he had with aliens?

RH: I don’t know. Eisenhower ostensibly met with aliens on a golfing vacation, he suddenly had to go for a dentist appointment, he was gone for several hours and nobody watched So what did he warn against when he quit? It has happened.

PH: This cover-up is so deep and involves so many people; I will be surprised if they ever come clean. I am looking forward to your book, Richard.


http://www.paolaharris.com/RichardCHoagland.html

[Theadora]

A New Frontier Of Hope
By Richard C. Hoagland
with David Wilcock
© 2008 The Enterprise Mission


“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard …”


What was John Fitzgerald Kennedy really thinking?

That ringing declaration in support of “Project Apollo” -- now almost a half century old -- is, of course, John Kennedy’s most controversial legacy; a President faced with unprecedented Earthly challenges at the same time that he was proposing the 20th Century’s most extraordinary political and technological undertaking: an actual human journey to the Moon!

If you think you know “why” President Kennedy committed this Nation to undertake a project so expensive, so unprecedented … so obviously “irrelevant” to Earthly human needs in a time of major crises… you need to think again; by the time you finish reading, I guarantee that your opinion re the urgent relevance of “Apollo” â€" if not all of NASA â€" to a range of current crises, will never be the same.

We forget (those of us who know it happened â€" to be differentiated from those among us who find it so unimaginably difficult in retrospect, that they actually believe it never COULD have happened …) how audacious Kennedy’s proposal really was, for 1961; such things had barely moved off the funny pages even then, from “Dick Tracy and his Mooncar” to “Buck Rogers” … and here was a President of the United States proposing that Americans could â€" should! -- actually “go to the Moon!”

Kennedy’s pressing terrestrial problems involved not only an escalating Cold War, with an ever more menacing arch-enemy from the 1950’s, the Soviet Union -- which threatened to go “hot” at any moment, ultimately ending the world in literal nuclear annihilation (and almost did, in October, 1962) â€" but equally grave challenges at home: growing crises of long-standing racial inequality, chronic unemployment, regional economic stagnation, lagging educational opportunities, outright urban collapse in certain major American cities -- and even the basic inefficiencies of government itself (in its ability â€" then, as now -- to apparently DO anything about these daunting, growing issues …).

In accepting his Democratic Party’s 1960 nomination for the presidency, Kennedy boldly called his initiatives to confront these major challenges, “The New Frontier”â€"



“…we stand at the edge of a New Frontierâ€"the frontier of unfulfilled hopes and dreams. It will deal with unsolved problems of peace and war, unconquered pockets of ignorance and prejudice, unanswered questions of poverty and surplus ….”   

And, just as a palpable hunger exists now for fundamental “change” -- to successfully confront, after decades of political “gridlock,” our own rising geopolitical and domestic problems -- so Kennedy’s “New Frontier’ was his answer to the equally daunting international and domestic crises of his day, starting with outcompeting an entire, highly organized international “political religion” -- communism -- which threatened to not only physical attack this Nation with nuclear weapons without warning, but ultimately, threatened to “seduce and then enslave” billions of impoverished peoples also seeking new opportunities and hope around the world.
Today, almost all of John Kennedy’s “unattainable political agenda” â€" including the banishment of communism -- so boldly proposed under the heading of “The New Frontier,” has been achieved (even as newer, and in some perceptions, graver problems have arisen …).

At the time however, because of stubborn Republican (and conservative Democratic) opposition, particularly to strong domestic “change,” John Kennedy himself did not live to see most of his New Frontier enacted; the majority of Kennedy’s economic and social reforms were only passed and implemented by Congress after his assassination … championed by his own Vice-President and successor, Lyndon Baines Johnson -- who promptly renamed Kennedy’s New Frontier “The Great Society.”

As a young man growing up in the midst of Kennedy’s heady revolution, who’s family had experienced first-hand the negative effects of the racial discrimination endemic in the 1950’s, who himself had to overcome a definite lack of governmental educational assistance to achieve his own hopes and dreams, it’s probably no great secret to this audience which program of Kennedy’s “New Frontier” reached out and touched my life â€" and, as I will demonstrate, ultimately the lives of everyone -- in a most profound and unique fashion:

The Space Program.

To a kid who discovered “science fiction” at the age of ten, where “the impossible” was repeatedly just a page turn away, the idea in my early teens that an actual, elected President of the United States was going to send human beings to the surface of another world â€" and “before this decade is out …” -- was unimaginably inspiring; I mean, what could NOT be accomplished … if a young President could actually make that happen!?

Who else could then have imagined that, just a few years later, at the tender age of 23, that man would find himself actually advising “the most trusted man in America,” Walter Cronkite, and, at the Tiffany Network, CBS, on John Kennedy’s most far-reaching New Frontier vision â€" “Project Apollo” -- human beings sent specifically to leave “American footprints”â€"

On the surface of another world!

In retrospect, the most frustrating experiences I probably had as I attempted to carry out my “mission” at CBS -- advising a major television network on the science, as well as historical context, of this extraordinary 20th Century Presidential vision -- was the deep cynicism over, and repeated lack of fundamental comprehension of, “Project Apollo” … not only among my network colleagues at CBS, but in ALL the major media covering the Moon landings! No matter what I said, in trying to explain the deeper societal and historical implications behind President Kennedy’s commitment to Apollo (like, his September 20, 1963 address to the United Nations -- where the President publically revealed for the first time that the United States was considering going to the Moon with the Russians!), all the producers that I worked with or met, all the network correspondents … even the veteran “print” reporters, who had covered space from the beginning … all stubbornly refused to see any “greater meaning” to what we all were covering; in their minds, stripped of the surficial glamour of “landing on another planet” … Kennedy’s Moon Program was simply the misdirected, almost irrelevant (and VERY expensive …) legacy of “a Cold War obsessed President.”

In recent years, in a broader policy assessment of Apollo, several writers have come to somewhat different conclusions: that, Kennedy’s surprising commitment to an aggressive manned spaceflight program in the 1960’s did lead to some equally surprisingly positive economic and social impacts on those other, simultaneous domestic challenges at home. W. Henry Lambright, Professor of Public Administration and Political Science at Syracuse University, has written an excellent profile of James E. Webb, Kennedy’s hand-picked NASA Administrator (and the man directly responsible for Apollo’s stunning political and technological success) -- called “Powering Apollo.” In the book, Lambright describes one of Webb’s own major long-range visions for NASA’s impact on society, beyond the space program:



“…using universities to strengthen regional economies and moving the United States toward … a ‘Space Age America’ …."

As immediate down payment on this “regional economic development strategy,” even as Apollo was being formulated, Webb deliberately placed NASA’s most massive and heavily-funded facilities in the South â€" in a thousand-mile-long swath from Texas, through Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, into Florida.

According to Lambright, writing in “Managing America to the Moon”:



“… under the first NASA Administrator, T. Keith Glennan, the decision had been made to contract out most of NASA's work to industry and universities. Webb continued this pattern, and often pointed out that 90-95 percent of NASA's Apollo work was spent outside government [emphasis added]….”

Paraphrasing University of York sociologist, Brian Woods’ independent, 2003 analysis of several key Webb decisions in those early NASA years--



“… indeed, Webb's leadership (with a bit of help from Lyndon Johnson …) unquestionably led to the location of the Manned Spacecraft Center in Texas, and the careful building of this ‘southern crescent’: a political maneuver which not only assured NASA powerful congressional support for years to come, but directly infused literally billions of dollars into depressed economies all across the South, thus addressing one of Kennedy’s prime targets of domestic economic policy â€" ‘southern regional economic stagnation’; by locating NASA facilities right across the southern tier, at a time when these areas were trying to escape from an agricultural based economy and into the 20th Century, Webb managed to make key members of the Congress ‘direct stakeholders in Apollo’ ….”

This deliberate placement of several major NASA facilities and research centers in the South, also gave the federal government â€" armed with non-discriminatory hiring standards, and a fundamental economic lever â€" an ability to directly influence racial discrimination, through enforced hiring practices at NASA (and among its NASA contractors …), all across this “southern crescent.”

As part of this collateral, specific, long-range plan for “positive domestic impact” from the space program, Webb also created the NASA “Sustaining University Program ” -- which heavily funded research facilities on campuses during the 1960s across the nation (but, again, especially in the South), seeking to replenish the national ranks of scientists and engineers (on which NASA’s own short-term success heavily depended) through local fellowships and grants. In this way, Webb hoped someday to harness local colleges and universities to other public goals and national problem-solving tasks … long after the successful completion of Apollo.

Much has been said and written about the unquantifiable aspects of Apollo â€" the so-called “student inspiration factor.” Needless to say, I’m a prime example; without John Kennedy’s clear call to “leave this planet for another world” â€" if only for a few days -- I have no doubt that my own life would have been significantly different ….

Others have also tried to grapple with this intangible … and have failed to greater or lesser degrees; how can you put a number on the ability of an idea … an “impossible dream” … to lift a kid above “the mundane,” to power him or her through life with the realistic hope that they can accomplish something previously thought “impossible” in their own lives, by getting a better education, by getting that first job … or, by literally “reaching for the stars?!”

You can’t.

But, that doesn’t mean you stop trying ….

In the early 1990's, two decades after my unique “Apollo/CBS experience,” I had the privilege of bringing together a team of local volunteers in the development of a "space-age" education project called “The Enterprise Mission” -- deliberately set amid the mostly minority population of an inner-city school (Dunbar Senior High, just off Capitol Hill) in downtown Washington D.C.

The experiment was built around the concept of "student involvement in real-time mission planning and data acquisition," during various NASA exploratory missions -- such as "Hubble," and the ill-fated "Mars Observer"; translation â€" using the famed “Starship Enterprise” and her multi-racial crew as “the model” (from my long association and friendship with Gene Roddenberry, and my advising “Star Trek”), and a direct connection with NASA -- we created at Dunbar the first multi-disciplinary “starship,” to--

“Boldly go where no students had gone before …!”

Starting as an after school extracurricular activity, and using donated computers from several manufacturers across the country as well as official NASA imaging-enhancement software, "The Enterprise Mission" and "becoming a crew member of the 'U.S.S. Dunbar'" eventually became an accredited course in the Dunbar magnet school curriculum. Over the years, scores of senior NASA Headquarters and Goddard Space Flight Center personnel enthusiastically participated in the program, including installation of a student satellite data link direct to NASA-Goddard, and on-site briefing of the “student crew” by actual NASA engineers, management personnel and scientists attached to various on-going NASA missions.

In 1991, then-NASA Administrator Admiral Richard Truly and education advocate, First Lady Barbara Bush, both came to Dunbar for personal briefings by the “crew” of the “USS Dunbar”; in the waning moments of a world without the Internet, the students took the initiative to even locate the proper protocols for “piping a Navy Admiral aboard a starship” -- and greeted Admiral Truly (to his surprise …) with the appropriate full honors ….

This remarkable experiment -- the original "ENTERPRISE Mission" -- was ultimately nominated for a White House "Point of Light" award for “outstanding contributions to education.”

Students want to be inspired by their education; in fact, they need to be. The simple statistics tell the story: over 7000 students, nationwide, drop out of school every day; over 1.2 million each year do not return to graduate with their own peers. The majority readily admit that the single, overriding reason isâ€"

They’re bored.

Our experience in Washington was a real eye-opener in this regard; in an inner-city school, in a city where the murder rate rocketed in 1991 to the highest in the Nation, where -- when we said goodnight, we couldn’t help wondering which student might literally be shot in a drive-by before returning to school the next morning â€" and in a physical school building constantly guarded by metal detectors, security guards and daily hand-gun searches … one thing became overwhelmingly apparent:

The students immediately “got” what we were doing.

As we began, still surrounded by hanging wires and gaping ceiling panels, we knew we were “on to something” when several members of the “crew,” totally unasked, showed up on that first weekend, volunteering to help us literally build our “starship” (converting a former storage area into the future “Briefing Room of the USS Dunbar”). We were even more convinced when the kids kept showing up, even during holidays, to help us finish all the installations.

Then, when we began conducting actual “daily briefings” â€" after school, mind you -- on “the relationships between the daily school curriculum (history, science, English …) and various events occurring in the news, viewed from around the world live on their own NASA satellite dish …” we, regrettably, had to actually turn some students away!

Conceived before the Internet made most of the things we dreamed up really practical (like, the ability to look up ANY data “in the ship’s computer” â€" i.e. on the Net -- during an actual “briefing” ; the ability to communicate with student “away teams” via live television, literally a world away; the ability to combine “exercises” taking place on the “USS Dunbar” with those of other “student crews” on other “starships” ... anywhere on Earth .. or, someday, off it!), the experience unmistakably showed our Dunbar “crew” what the future of education could someday be--

If “educators” took their heads out of the sand, and decided to listen to what students have to say about their own, increasingly boring, irrelevant â€" and failing -- educational institutions!

All confirmed by the emotional letters I’ve received over the years since, from the Dunbar students themselves … who participated in â€" and still remember -- our pioneering “voyages.” All affirming that, even in this first “primitive” incarnation … The Enterprise Mission truly made a difference in their lives ….

The larger lesson here is also blatantly apparent: students need to dream “big dreams,” they need to see that the future -- both their own, and that of their society … their entire world, in fact â€" can realistically be better than today ….

And, they need to see how â€" if properly equipped and motivated -- they too can play a meaningful role in making that future come about … even if their school is in the middle of a “war zone,” in downtown Washington DC!

Jeffrey Bennett is also an educator, with a B.A. in Biophysics from the University of California at San Diego, and an M.S. and Ph.D. in Astrophysics from the University of Colorado, currently specializing in mathematics and science education. Shortly after President George Bush announced his “Return to the Moon ... and on to Mars” Program for NASA and the Nation, in 2004, Jeff Bennett published an Op-Ed piece in the Denver Post.

Here is Jeff’s independent attempt to quantify this crucial “inspiration factor”â€"



“ … while inspiration is generally considered priceless, let's try to put a value on it anyway, just for the sake of argument. For example, suppose that building a Moon base as a stepping stone to Mars and beyond provides only enough inspiration to cause an additional 1% of the U.S. population to go on to get a college degree. This is a pretty conservative assumption, especially when you consider that the percentage of the U.S. adult population (over age 25) with a 4-year college degree has already risen from 7.7% in 1960 to about 26% today. (Yes, I do think much of that can be traced to Apollo, but that's a different argument.) Statistical studies of income show that, over a lifetime, the average college graduate earns some $1 million more than a high school graduate. Now run the numbers:

“If an additional 1% of the U.S. population of 300 million people gets a college degree, that's 3 million more people earning college graduate salaries rather than high school graduate salaries. Over their lifetimes, these people earn an additional $1 million each.

The total economic impact is then 3 million people times $1 million each, or $3 trillion.

“This $3 trillion return is roughly 20 times the estimated cost for the Moon base. That's an investment that's hard to beat, even if the cost has been underestimated by a factor of 2 or 3 or 4...

“As President Kennedy said in 1961, ‘We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...’ The Moon should never have been a one-shot deal. It's time to go back and complete a dream that has been on hold for more than 30 years. The future depends on it [emphasis added].” 

“… the future depends on it ….”

For those used to thinking in such “grand terms,” like President Kennedy (and his best-known alter-ego and speech writer, Ted Sorenson), it must have been apparent early on that a call to do something as “encompassing and impossible” as Apollo, couldn’t help but have much broader, long-term social consequences. There is now hard evidence that this â€" and NOT a mere “short-term propaganda win” over the Soviet Union -- was what Kennedy actually expected to achieve by championing Apollo ... exactly as I argued to my colleagues in the network all those years ago!

At our recent Enterprise Mission Washington DC National Press Club briefing on “the hidden discoveries and benefits of the space program,” we revealed White House, State Department and NASA memos that now prove that my efforts at CBS to explain Kennedy’s ringing call to send humans to the Moon, as something “far MORE than merely Cold War competition” were, in fact, correct! These documents now clearly demonstrate that -- despite all that has been drummed into us for the last 40 or so years in terms of the glib “Cold War explanation” -- Kennedy’s decision on and surprisingly firm political commitment to Apollo was NOT driven “primarily by Cold War competition with the Russians” … but by motivations demonstrably now far, far largerâ€"

The foundation for this new analysis can be found, not surprisingly, in Kennedy’s own historic address to that Joint Session of Congress, May 25, 1961 … if you just seriously lookâ€"



“ … finally, if we are to win the battle that is now going on around the world between freedom and tyranny, the dramatic achievements in space which occurred in recent weeks should have made clear to us all, as did the Sputnik in 1957, the impact of this adventure on the minds of men everywhere, who are attempting to make a determination of which road they should take …

“Now it is time to take longer strides -- time for a great new American enterprise â€" time for this nation to take a clearly leading role in space achievement, which in many ways may hold the key to our future on earth [emphasis added]….”

“… the key to our future on Earth ….”

As we further detail in our New York Times Bestseller, “Dark Mission: the Secret History of NASA,” these newly-published documents reveal that, within days of his ringing challenge to the American people, the Congress and the Soviets in Washington, Kennedy was actually, urgently, trying to sell Nikita Khrushchev (then head of the Soviet Union), at their first Summit in Vienna, on the daring idea of joint US/USSR space exploration programs!

Includingâ€"

Going to the Moon, not in competition … but together!

To add further substance to this major historical revision, we have the first-person testimony of none other than Sergei Khrushchev, Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev’s son, in the October, 1999 issue of American Heritage Magazine:



“…that same August [1963], Kennedy sent Father a proposal about joining Soviet and American forces for a flight to the moon. He had first mentioned the idea in Vienna, in June 1961, but at the time Father hadn’t replied [emphasis added]….”

This, of course, not only tosses into the ashcan of history all the “real-politic reasons” we’ve been given for Kennedy engaging in an expensive space race with the Russians -- it raises profound political, diplomatic and economic questions regarding the President’s real, underlying motivations for going to the Moon at all!

What was John Fitzgerald Kennedy really thinking?

Obviously, from this documentation, and despite his repeated public rhetoric regarding American’s “winning the race to the Moon,” the President privately thought a joint lunar effort with the USSR was the only real way to proceed! Consistent with this analysis, the documents now reveal that Kennedy tried repeatedly to get Premier Khrushchev to go along with this radical idea; on the record, we have at least five attempts by Kennedy, across the three full years of his aborted Presidency -- in secret NSC memos and discussions in the White House, and in equally clandestine diplomatic efforts with both Khrushchev, and even meetings with the Washington Ambassador from the Soviet Union, Anatoly Dobrynin -- to quietly convince the Premier to undertake a joint manned mission to the Moon!

It is clear from these remarkably persistent initiatives, long before his going public at the United Nations in September 1963, that the President in fact saw “a combined journey to the Moon” as vastly more significant and far-reaching than “achieving an American propaganda coup over the Soviet Union, by going there alone  ….”

And, in mid-November 1963, according to Sergei Khrushchev’s personal recollections -- after literally years of determined efforts by the President to convince him to accept this 180-degree reversal of the then public perception of “an all out race” … Nikita Khrushchev finally did agree!

Again, according to his son … this time on PBS:



“… in the August of 1963, President Kennedy met with the Soviet Ambassador Dobrinyin, and then he spoke to the United Nations. He offered once more to join the efforts, and at that time my father was very serious. I walked with him, sometime in late October or November, and he told me about all these things. He told me that we have to think about this and maybe accept this idea …

“He thought also of the political achievement of all these things, that then they would begin to trust each other much more ....”

However, just days later … John Kennedy was killed.

In 1999, Sergei Khrushchev looked back:



“… the Cold War might have ended in 1969 … an American astronaut and a Soviet cosmonaut might have stepped onto the moon’s surface together.

“But life turned out differently. In November 1963 John F. Kennedy died, and a year later, in October 1964, my father was removed from power. The leaders who replaced Father hurried to 'correct his mistakes' by giving a new impetus to the arms race and producing tens of thousands of tactical nuclear weapons. By 1989 the Soviet army had seven thousand nuclear cannon.

“The Cold War was prolonged by twenty years [emphasis added] ….”

This indisputable chronology now makes clear what Kennedy’s “secret agenda” -- via a vis Apollo â€" really was from the beginning: not only the first, historic manned mission to the Moon … but a radical “end run” on the decades-long, hopelessly stalemated international situation vis a vis the Soviet Union. An imaginative attempt to diffuse -- if not completely end -- the long “Cold War” decades sooner than it eventually ended; to usher in a new era of unprecedented cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union, beginning in space … literally on the surface of another world … but ultimately, designed to spread around this world.

A radical, imaginative diplomatic effort that ultimately, we now know succeeded … only to be killed by John Kennedy’s own, untimely death.

For those who have not lived long enough to remember the frightening nightmares of those years for all us kids -- the pointless “duck and cover” exercises in the middle of the day; the recurring wail of air raid sirens in “mock Russian bomber drills” in the middle of the night; the recurring images on TV of “atom bombs blowing entire cities into smithereens …” â€" there is no imagining the almost physical lifting of the burden with the real ending of the Cold War, in 1991.

Or the haunting thought I had, when I first found these extraordinary documents confirming my deepest-held suspicions of Kennedy’s real thinking on Apollo, echoing exactly those of Premier Khrushchev’s son:

That -- were it not for the sudden murder of this young President on that Dallas afternoon -- the long, expensive nuclear nightmare of the confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union could realistically have ended a full generation earlier … replaced by “who knows what” -- if Kennedy had also lived to be the architect of that new, unwritten future!

Which brings us to the hard reality of today's NASA ... and its unique relevance to the unprecedented global challenges we face in these opening moments of the 21st Century ....

The sad fact is that today’s space agency is NOT the “can-do NASA” that John Kennedy and James Webb created, to take a hopeful generation to the Moon “within a decade.”  And, it is certainly not the NASA that they planned to leave to future generations … to accomplish even more extraordinary missions, as the President declared at the United Nations just weeks before he died, “ultimately in service to all Mankind.” 

NASA currently is an aging bureaucratic agency, bogged down with an equally aging, obsolete technology â€" the space shuttle; as it is equally bogged down -- in an astonishing display of sheer engineering incompetence -- in its current efforts even to create a viable successor to the shuttle, essential for successfully returning humans to the Moon. 

And, if this were not enough, NASA is also still embedded in another dead-end project â€" named so by none other than the current head of NASA, Michael Griffin â€"

The International Space Station.

A project that, after taking the lion’s share of the limited agency resources from NASA’s true mission, exploration, for almost two decades … will be literally abandoned  by NASA in just the next few years! 

And then, just this week (at this writing), despite President Bush’s  2004 enunciation of a “new NASA vision” after the Space Station is completed, major splits have now developed within the agency over precisely what that specific “new NASA goal” should be … divisions which threaten to ultimately abandon future human exploration and development of the resources of the Moonâ€"

To China!

If not headed off, this is a major short-term and long-term American economic disaster in the making ….

NASA currently gives jobs to about 18,000 civil servants, plus about 40,000 additional non-governmental workers through external contracts â€" the latter just as Glennan and Webb originally intended.  However, this direct economic impact is only about a tenth that created by NASA funding at the height of the Apollo program.  Yet, in keeping with trends established at the beginning of John Kennedy’s “Apollo Vision,” a large percentage of these current NASA jobs are still located in the South â€" from Florida to Texas â€" and would bring major economic disaster to this region, and a range of regional institutions -- from local government to schools --  if NASA’s current programs, specifically the space shuttle, the Space Station and the follow-on “Constellation” program to return to the Moon, were substantially curtailed or altered.

In the longer term ….

It can now be seriously argued that, without John Fitzgerald Kennedy’s extraordinary vision vis a vis “Apollo” â€" and, at a pivotal time in American history both domestically and internationally, the 1960’s â€" the enormous economic benefits our society reaped later in the 20th Century (and into the dawning of the 21st ) simply wouldn’t be here!

All the myriad technologies which make our modern, Internet-connected, computer-driven civilization possible, starting with the “chips” at the heart of every electronic gadget we so casually take for granted -- from our cell phones, to the I-Pods, to the prolific home computers and communications satellites which link all of us together -- simply would not be fueling the heart of the annual thirteen trillion dollar 21st Century American economy (up from just under a half trillion dollars in 1960, when Kennedy was elected) … almost half a century after the inception of Apollo and the revolutionary technologies it spawned.

Jerome E. Schnee, economist with the Graduate School of Business at Rutgers University, published a report in 1977 assessing the overall economic impact of Apollo.  According to Dr. Schnee--



“… NASA's budget totaled less than 1 percent of the GNP during peak activity years in the last half of the 1960s.  Why then have economists devoted considerable attention to a governmental program that represents a negligible proportion of national economic activity?  Professional interest in space program economics is attributable to a growing awareness of the economic significance of technological change. Economists define technological change as an advance in industrial-related knowledge that permits, and is often embodied in, new methods of production, new designs for existing products, and entirely new products and services.  Economists view technological changes as one of the most significant determinants of the shape and direction of the U.S. economy …

“Analyses of the macroeconomic effects of the U.S. space program [therefore] attempt to identify and measure that portion of economic growth attributable to technological progress.  A Midwest Research Institute (MRI) study of the relationship between R&D expenditures and technology-induced increases in GNP indicated that each dollar spent on R&D returns an average of slightly over seven dollars in GNP over an eighteen-year period following the expenditure.  Assuming that NASA's R&D expenditures produce the same economic payoff as the average R&D expenditure [some have argued that NASA funding has significantly more innovative leverage …], MRI concluded that the $25billion (1958) spent on civilian space R&D during the 1959-69 period [mainly on Apollo] returned $52 billion through 1970 and will continue to stimulate benefits through 1987, for a total gain of $181 billion [emphasis added] ….”



The current US economy is ~26 times larger than the one John Kennedy inherited from Dwight Eisenhower in the 1960s.  If the fundamental NASA R&D that Kennedy initiated through Project Apollo is not emulated, if bold new technological initiatives for the next half-century are not carried out equally successfully -- through the invention of the fundamental new technologies NASA will require, across a broad spectrum of energy, electronic and environmental needs essential to actually building any working infrastructure for living on the Moon â€" then, as the studies show, the larger American economy will inevitably suffer; because again, according to Jerome Schnee:


“… technological change exerts a particularly important influence on the national rate of economic growth ... about 90 percent of the long-term increase in output per capita in the U.S. has been attributable to technological change, increasing educational achievement, and other factors not directly associated with increases in the quantity of labor and capital [emphasis added] ….”



Shockingly however, current NASA Administrator, Michael Griffin, recently admitted that the share of NASA’s budget specifically devoted to fundamental research and development of “new space technology” â€" new energy resources, new materials, new communications methods, development of fundamentally new propulsion technologies for transporting Americans more cheaply into space â€" from a high of  about 10% of NASA’s budget during “the Apollo Era,” has fallen now to ZERO in the current NASA budget!

And, remember, it is this fundamental R&D which, according to the economists (above), supports “… 90 percent of the long-term increase in output per capita in the U.S. … [directly] attributable to technological change.”

The next president of the United States must reverse this disastrous, short-term policy for NASA â€" and return the Agency to its unique historical position … as a force for investing crucial national resources in a way that are proven, by every economic indicator, to demonstrably increase the Nation’s wealth … and, over generations!

The next elected president will be facing major global and domestic challenges that, in many ways, are far more difficult to successfully resolve than those which John Kennedy confronted.  These include a steadily declining dollar; a fundamentally decreasing economic productivity at home, after decades of continuous economic growth; a looming credit crisis with major foreign lenders, particularly China; and an ever increasing dependence on foreign and expensive energy resources â€" specifically, Middle Eastern oil.

As we approach the 2008 presidential election, one overwhelming fact should be born in mind by all the candidates confronting these daunting problems -- regardless of their party, race or gender: real societal wealth is created by a real increase in any one of only three major economic driversâ€"

Energy … physical resources … information. 

John Kennedy’s “Apollo” increased the Nation’s wealth across these ~50 years by significantly increasing  one of these “Big Three” â€" basic scientific and engineering information, subsequently made available to American industry at large.  The result was the “Internet civilization” we currently enjoy.

President Bush’s new “Vision for Space Exploration” â€" by planning a major return to the Moon, this time to stay â€" will inevitably require a dramatic increase in all three prime indicators, and thus will inevitably increase real wealth back here on Earth even more dramatically, through vastly expanded access toâ€"

More energy, more resources … and dramatically new scientific information.

In other words, if Apollo (according to the previously cited studies) “made” the Nation ~8 times richer than it cost … and, through long-term R&D ~26 times richer overall in the last five decades … then a reasonable extrapolation of those studies would indicate that returning to the Moon -- with the intention this time to permanently inhabit another planet â€" if accelerated, could potentially result in a GDP increase approximately 20 times that initial NASA investment--

Almost exactly what Jeff Bennett independently calculated as the national return from “generational educational inspiration” alone … just from establishing the first American Moonbase (above)!

But, as with John Kennedy’s grand Apollo vision ~40 years ago, perhaps the most important legacy we all could see from accelerating our return to the Moon is what could dramatically happen here on Earth in just the next few years ….

It is testimony to the lack of current imaginative thinking in Washington, on how to end (not merely “win”) our current “war on terror” â€" the so-called “clash of civilizations” -- which presents us once again with the same dismal prospects that once confronted President Kennedy, for “more unending nightmares for countless generations of Americans to come ….”  Some candidates for president have even promised during the current campaignâ€"

“There are far more wars to come …”

What is clearly needed, then, is some of the imaginative thinking that John Kennedy displayed in creating a radical new way to peacefully seek an end our own generation’s “unending, overriding nightmare …” A proposal that could realistically bring the West and the vast majority of Islam peacefully together … in some overarching “common cause, or project” … for the long-term betterment of both great cultures and the effective isolation of the tiny group of ultimate fanatics currently driving all the fear.

Perhaps, in seeking the visionary benefits of such a joint collaboration, we should look spaceward once again and ask, as John Kennedy once askedâ€"



“… Surely we should explore whether the scientists and astronauts of our two countries â€" indeed of all the world -- cannot work together in the conquest of space, sending someday in this decade to the moon not the representatives of a single nation, but the representatives of all of our countries [emphasis added]….”



Which leaves us with these still unanswered questions:

Why, despite his public "Cold War" rhetoric, was John Kennedy so obviously determined privately to send young astronauts and cosmonauts jointly to the Moon!?  What, in his mind, could have been waiting there … which might have the power to unify a world? And why, after years of stubbornly declining, was Premier Khrushchev suddenly persuaded to agree …?

The answers -- when we do return -- may surprise and save us allâ€"

A New Frontier … of Hope.


http://www.enterprisemission.com/newfrontier.htm

[Theadora]

In the movie, 'The Death Of Stalin,' Khrushchev is portrayed as an amateur comic.  This may be why:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev#Early_years

After the abdication of Tsar Nicholas II in 1917, the new Russian Provisional Government in Petrograd had little influence over Ukraine. Khrushchev was elected to the worker's council (or soviet) in Rutchenkovo, and in May he became its chairman.[17] He did not join the Bolsheviks until 1918, a year in which the Russian Civil War, between the Bolsheviks and a coalition of opponents known as the White Army, began in earnest. His biographer, William Taubman, suggests that Khrushchev's delay in affiliating himself with the Bolsheviks was because he felt closer to the Mensheviks who prioritized economic progress, whereas the Bolsheviks sought political power.[18] In his memoirs, Khrushchev indicated that he waited because there were many groups, and it was difficult to keep them all straight.[18]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9eAshaPvYw

[Theadora]

"Well now, I'm not going to talk about Judy; in fact we're not going to talk about Judy, at all."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nSqDMqCJQw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHl_8WK8w3Y

expat said...
Theadora: I suspect "Assistant Nikki" is an imp of yours. Since I'm not sure, you're not under a ban yet, but take this as another warning.

NO IMPING! NO COMMENT-FLOODING!!
May 4, 2018 at 7:05 AM     

expat said...
To see what I mean by "comment-flooding", try this.
http://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=8014.msg1199180#msg1199180
May 4, 2018 at 10:13 AM

http://dorkmission.blogspot.com/2018/05/how-to-write-instant-book.html

[Theadora]

Interview with Richard C Hoagland
by Paola Harris
Albuquerque, New Mexico
July 2007

PH: This cover-up is so deep and involves so many people; I will be surprised if they ever come clean. I am looking forward to your book, Richard.

http://www.paolaharris.com/RichardCHoagland.html

Paola lives in Rome and Boulder, Colorado
http://paolaharris.com/english/biography 

[Mad_Martian]

“THE MARTIAN REVELATION” â€" with your host Gary "The Mad Martian" Leggiere, directly live on the LNM Radio Network on Saturday night MAY 5TH, 2018 @ 12AM-3AM EST.

Today's guest is: MIKE BARA: SECRETS OF SPACE

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[Yorkshire pud]

A New Frontier Of Hope
By Richard C. Hoagland
with David Wilcock
© 2008 The Enterprise Mission

Did you read that text wall before posting it?

[Yorkshire pud]

Why would Hoagland tell us that Giza is at 19.5 if it isn't?  What really is at 19.5?  Might there be something even more significant there that he is forbidden to directly, direct US too?  Or did Hoagland not say that?  I'll own up if he didn't, and now I don't find that he did.  Besides, it doesn't alter the fact that the presence of advanced artifacts at Giza hasn't disintegrated Western civilization.

What possibly could be the harm, Stuart, of US suing NASA for their take on Brookings?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/19%C2%B050'00.0%22N+31%C2%B008'03.1%22E/@19.8333383,31.1320057,587m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d19.8333333!4d31.1341944

Because Hoagland is demented. He's not a scientist of any kind, and his grasp of geography is tenuous at best. Why indeed say the great pyramid is at 19.5 degrees north if it isn't when it can so easily be checked down to the minute and second of a degree? Best ask RCH that one...

[Mad_Martian]

UMMM FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION???.. YOU REALLY SHOULD CONSIDER THIS IN WHAT YOUR REPLYING TO IS IN CONTEXT OF WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED THE PAST FEW PAGES.... ;-) Juss sayin...