Yeah eliminating competition in the market place while making an efficient entity like the government the only means one can access health care or essential services will produce such great results.
You mean like in Australia:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harlan-green/single-payer-universal-he_b_8229764.html
(this article discusses Canadian overall satisfaction with national health and conservatives' undermining the system)
(this article highlights how they pay for their system)
So I don't understand the unwillingness of the richest nation on earth to provide the same social structure that so many others do. How is that good or fair or right in any way, shape, or form?
At what point in the modern era could people not walk into an emergency room and be treated?
Walk into Bridgeport Hospital with anything less than a gunshot wound and you're at least 6 hours.
When did "emergency" stop meaning "emergency"? When ER's became clinics due to crap healthcare opportunities.
Also having so many hands in a business... that's just dumb. I'm not against social programs for the old and crippled but half of this country doesn't produce anything and your answer is to take more away from the other half?
I know you have an axe to grind but this is criminally simplistic and wrong. Half this country doesn't produce anything? Even in our slow period of economic growth, our labor participation rate is
I'm not happy about it but its more than half. It's nearly 2/3's. As to "taking away" from the other half? How exactly did that "other half" earn it's wage? In a vacuum? Through hard work, long hours, and frugality? No.http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bacd66d2-68fd-11e5-97d0-1456a776a4f5.html#axzz3nRV3x9RI
Wage growth the last 40 years hasn't even kept up with inflation, and its had 7 years of minimal inflation (0 fed rate) in which to catch up, but hasn't. Who's fault is that? The government's
Open a history book, socialism has been tried and failed many times. Two biggest examples are the USSR and Nazi Germany. Oh but your brand of socialism is going to be so much better right?
Really? The USSR? You mean the country that's only ever had a strongman in power?
What's the difference between Nicolas Romanov, Josef Stalin, and Vladimir Putin? The color of their flags. That's it.
As to Hitler? The most conservative government (industry joined with politics) in history euphemistically calling itself "socialist". Not even worth further rebuttal.
And I'm not a conservative.
Walk like a duck, talk like a duck, bitch like a liberal who got mugged...
Why is it the responsibility of successful Americans to subsidize people who can't get their act together?
It's the responsibility of all Americans to keep this dream alive. It's the responsibility of all Americans to say, "hey, I did pretty well under this socioeconomic philosophy - let me pass it forward". The rich, who have benefitted here as they could have nowhere else, really ought to feel obliged to keep this great experiment moving forward, not sealing up the hatch behind them.
As to "can't get their act together"? Not even close to understanding what that means (and I really hope you're not disparaging people who work two and three crappy part time jobs and need TANF or SNAP).
And that "selfish mentality" is American exceptionalism
No it isn't. Creating a country where the vote is the most precious possession is exceptional. Fighting for a government that represents the people and codifying it in a living document that can be altered without being an act of heresy is exceptional. Emancipating the slaves is exceptional. Destroying the Nazis is exceptional. Building the Panama Canal is exceptional. Landing a man on the moon is exceptional. Creating the internet is exceptional. Helping other nations recover from natural disaster is exceptional. Being a country that can admit its wrongs and is willing to do something about it is exceptional.
A bunch of people chasing the almighty dollar? Not so much.
... and it's what built this country into a super power before Bush and Obama tag teamed to ruin the economy.
Fuck being a superpower. Didn't protect us on 9/11, did it? Really showed the Iraqis and the Pastun, didn't we? Rather not have to subsidize patrolling the Pacific Ocean to allow WalMart's goods to come safely across.
Where do you draw the line? I'm all for taxing corporations and churches. It's criminal that we do not.
I draw the line, as many progressives do, at keeping a social strata intact that doesn't disenfranchise vast swaths of our people. Creating wealth is marvelous. Wouldn't begrudge someone innovative like Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk. Yet does this mean they are entitled to grab all they can? Does it mean that they aren't rich if we tax them enough to create a social foundation where no one goes hungry or is denied health care or shelter?
I've never understood the opposite argument. How is anyone "punished"? Are you not still rich? do you not still enjoy luxury? And you can, guilt free, but please don't game the system for tax breaks like off shoring your earnings or reincorporating in a foreign country (frankly an island) to avoid your responsibility to this nation. There is no model that suggests we cannot afford to create a basic life for those who cannot achieve that impedes the life of those who can.
That's where I draw the line. Earn all you can, but please remember the country that created these conditions for you.
But socialism will fuck anyone making upper middle class money and will ensure that the dwindling middle class stay the dwindling middle class because they won't be able to get ahead.
No, this is the position that makes me nuts!!! This is the absolute fucking opposite of what its designed to do! It's designed to ensure you don't go bankrupt caring for health conditions! It's designed to afford you a mortgage that doesn't game you with "no negative amortization". it's designed to ensure that you don't fall in hunger and despair trying to find a job when Corporation X sells your job (and your ass) out to India!! It's designed to offer education that permits our home grown to take the jobs that cannot be currently filled!! How is any of that wrong?!?!?!?
Plus you want the government to redistribute wealth. That's so mind blowingly corrupt and naive, I wonder what planet you're on.
You say you're not a conservative and loft this gob full of gall? That's "mind blowingly corrupt". Who the fuck is talking about redistribution? And, frankly, whose wealth?!?
Excellent two-dimensional thinking from someone who can't escape from an us versus them mentality that's been hammered into your brain along with the rest of this unrealistic rhetoric.
And again, I wonder if you actually read any of my responses or just barge ahead with your misinformed ideology? I just don't understand the mentality that says "It's ALL
mine; fuck everyone else!"
I voted for Obama twice friend.
Two excellent votes.
What else do you call it when you forcefully take someone's money without earning it?
We are talking about two different perspectives here; I see taxation with representation as a due part of being a citizen of this great nation, you apparently see it as armed robbery. Please tell me I got you wrong.
You think there's a difference between Bush and Obama?
One is going manipulate conservatives and one is going to manipulate liberals but they both have the same end and they're both economically the same
I'm sorry but the evidence screams to the contrary. Did GWB craft an agreement with our largest economic competitor to mutually reduce toxins into our environment? Did GWB nail down an agreement with Iran to slow their nuclear expansion (and put people on the ground who can give us reams of information as to what the Iranians are really up to)? Did GWB really "protect this nation" as his brother claims or did I misread the calendar and 9/11 happened under Clinton? Did GWB nail the bastard who masterminded it or did he publicly state that he didn't see him as a threat anymore? Did GWB protect us as the banking system damn near collapsed or did he abdicate his authority and wait for the new guy to try to clean it up?
Man you go on for hours. Obama is a waaaaay better president than GWB (or Dick Cheney).
How old are you?
46. Thanks for asking.
I call it cherry picking an article about a corrupt monopoly that has bought off the government.
I call it willful ignorance (and criminal negligence) to believe that was cherry picking.
By the way, I marched in several protests against Bush and wanted that motherfucker dead which is why I became an ardent liberal which the Obama administration cured me of even though I do like Obama on a lot of levels.
I wonder how Obama pissed you off? I don't get it. He never took anyone's guns. His presidency has seen the creation of more jobs than any president in 40+ years. He may have let the Patriot Act and the Bush tax cuts sunset, but how's that bad for anyone?
Is he wrong on Snowden? Yes. Is he wrong on the NSA? Yes. Should he renegotiate NAFTA? Yes. It the Trans Pacific Partnership dubious legislation? Yes. But who has run for president in the last 20 years who would have done better?
Bush sold the tax cuts by giving a $600 payoff to the poor pissing away our surplus which brain dead poor people ate up and worshiped him like Jesus Christ after that. Rich people were trying to cover their ass at the time when all the ponzi schemes starting falling apart and our currency's value went to shit almost over night.
And they screwed us by buying debt instead of paying for it. They ran up the prices of consumables with their money instead of creating whole new industries. I just cannot sympathize with them.
How else do you think the government is going to redistribute wealth and practice preventive health care? Is it just going to magically happen?
No. In the UK and other nations they have incentive programs for doctors who are thorough and do follow up exams with patients. No magic; just legwork.
Stealing money is a punishment and hurts the flow of business.
Sure does. That's why organized crime sucks. What benefit does the mafia have on society?
You used a classic socialist strawman argument yourself of painting a fat cat on a boat to illustrate your rhetoric when in reality a guy may have a million in the bank and ten million in equity but that's what he built up for himself and in business you need as much equity as possible to continue doing business and grow business.
Then you misread my statement. It was to demonstrate that the guy in the boat has the wherewithal to do more for his country at no detriment to his current lifestyle.
That's how our system works.
Except that it doesn't. When one percent of your population controls over 60% of your nation's assets and your entire political system, it ain't working. When wages stay flat for 40 years relative to massive gains in productivity, it ain't working. When people go bankrupt for fighting cancer, it ain't working.
As LT used to say, "Son, you gotta do better than that."
Stealing money and equity from that guy to give to intellectuals to steal and write books about evil white men accomplishes what other than to make it harder to do business in this country and make the third world more appealing?
I've read this paragraph three times and I'm still like "Whaaaa?"
You don't think the government will take every chance to expand it's powers?
The bureaucracy will, sure. However a vigilant Congress and Chief Executive (and perhaps a core of Inspectors General) will curtail that. How? Term limits. Used to hate 'em, but I've come around. We already limit the Chief, why not the douchebags who have six and seven terms in the House??
The government is a business just like any other business and most like mafia syndicate in it's design. The victim classes are being mind fucked into screaming they want the government to be their daddy and take care of their problems while the federal government is using their idiocy to expand their powers. Since Bush/Obama have decided to eradicate the middle class I get why dumb people think this rhetoric is the answer. However America stands on the minimization of authority and free enterprise which is the essence of freedom and America. Both of those things socialism is against.
Alas, it has been the "minimization of authority" which has gotten us into this mess. Citizens United? Of no benefit to our nation. Repeal of Glass Steagall? Of no benefit to our nation. Chronic merger and acquisition? One of the biggest job killers out there.
So things were fucked before and now they're going to get even more fucked. That's the answer?
Your premise is skewed; it presumes failure. I see it as an opportunity to harness our nation's strength to the benefit of our people.
[quote...That's literally exactly what you said.[/quote]
Yeah, no. No it isn't.
That's also the classic image socialists paint. Do you want me to drop art history on you? I don't mind, socialist art is pretty bad ass.
Please, no I beg of you! I may be a lib (not really - a prog) but I cannot stand the arts!!
We agree on this. Fuck Congress and brain dead conservatives. And fuck Ronald Reagan while I'm at it.
Yeah! Fuck Ronald Reagan!! Whooo HOOO!
I don't disagree with you at all on this. I'm just confused why you think a system that has continually been shown to fail that advocates increasing the size and powers of the entity that fucked it all up in the first place is the answer?
I think it can and will if it is phased in. Doing a wholesale change is silly and stupid. Why not start with healthcare? Do you know most Americans support it and so do many doctors:http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/851265
Yeah because the government will do it and now the people won't have any chance of doing better for themselves.
In a government of the people, by the people, for the people, at least they will have a chance to try.
In a free enterprise capitalist society, anyone with brains or drive can improve their situation. I'm confused why you have this two dimensional thinking of only one thing or the other.
Because I have worked in the private sector all my life and have seen good people passed over for frat brothers. I have seen the Bain Capitals of the world destroy viable companies (like KB Toys) for the sake of mining them for massive "management fees" which the outgoing boards of directors approve (as they get their cut). I have seen small business people who cheat vendors out of agreed upon payments, knowing full well the vendors will take what they can get because it is more than what they could do in court. I have seen car companies knowingly install devices to cheat environmental standards and an executive who knowingly released salmonella tainted peanut butter to avoid the costs of recall. I saw Bear Stearns overleverage itself and not one executive from Jimmy Cayne on down know what the hell was happening. I have seen Lehmann Brothers do it to an even larger extent. I have seen Countrywide Financial knowingly underwrite mortgages to unqualified lenders and then package them to Goldman Sachs, who in turn set up counter party trades where the client (John Paulson) hand picked the mortgage bond tranches to bet against.
I could do this for hours.
One is going to showing you annoying ads based on your internet habits. The other can throw you in prison, destroy your livelihood an control every aspect of your life. I don't want either.
Well, hell, neither do I.
I didn't get personal with you dickhead.
No, not at all...
I could have just as easily called you an unworldly beta white male pogue faux intellectual who talks about ideas he doesn't understand because it gives him the delusion of knowledge and excuses for his failed life, poverty and the fact no one wants to fuck him at his community college.
And I could've called you a wildly successful, wisened knowledgeable soul, but then we'd both be wrong.
You are one dumb fuck. Honestly.
Keeping it not personal.
You want people to fit into your little socialist world view even when it doesn't work.
I want social justice for all people. And, again, I'd like to try it for once before presuming it can't be done.
I marched in more gay rights parades, wrote for alternative media, was at WTO and worked with local liberal politicians.
Your lib medal, "The Order of the Spotted Owl", is in the mail.
I worked more in liberal causes that you can imagine. I still believe in a lot of those causes but after watching what a hive minded authoritative pile of shit liberalism has become in this country, I can't understand why anyone but marks would subscribe to it.
We see two wildly divergent worlds; I see anything but a "hive mind" to libs and progs. You want hive mind? Watch the Republican debates and see how many times they can reference Ronald Reagan. "What do you think of the Mets' chances in the postseason?" "As the Gipper himself said..."
And in in a couple years when conservatives are back on top, I'll be talking about what a pile of shit conservatism is. The problem is authority and right now liberals have that authority. In a few years, conservatives will have that authority. And on an on it goes, American society is a pendulum.
Quite true that bit about the pendulum. I'd like to somehow limit the extremes of the range of sway.
Sorry I hurt your feelings.
If I can bring you even a little bit back into the fold, I would be happy to have you insinuate inappropriate relations with my various relatives all day long.
You want to replace a bad system with a
worse better system.
It's this kind of thinking that is really doing this country in.
No, its the "every man for himself" and "fear the walking brownies" mentality which poisons our nation's soul.
Politics are an illusion chum, none of this bullshit matters. I'm sure you have many winning qualities and I mean that non-sarcastically. We're on the same page more than I think we both realize.
I truly hope.
That's humanity my friend. If you don't take the opportunity you're a sucker because someone else will. And I think it's silly to advocate a system that will somehow fix these flaws when the flaws lie with humanity. The answer isn't to expand the powers of the entity that's largely responsible for fucking it up in the first place.
Is it really silly to try? Isn't there something more for humanity than settling? If we can get passed acquisition as the ends to living, isn't there greater opportunity in this universe?
Ironically according to political charts out of all the 2016 candidates my politics identify most with Bernie Sanders at 82% which I find rather disturbing.
Why? He's intelligent and uncorruptable. I would like to think it's those qualities in you that draw you to him.
Keep the faith; humanity may often present itself as excrement but there is so much more to us than that. We are capable of wonderful things (like creating a nation not of hierarchy bit of equally applied law, for example!)