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Anesthesia

Started by ItsOver, May 25, 2015, 09:58:07 AM

ItsOver

Like a number of folks, I've been under anesthesia for various medical procedures over the years.  Maybe it's just me, but the procedure seems to have really improved.  I've noticed two things in particular.  One, once the procedure starts, I'm there one second and completely gone the next.  I don't have any sensation of gradually going under.  It's as if an off switch for my brain was flipped and it's goodbye world.

Second, I have no sense of time, similar to what I have when I've been asleep and realize time has passed when I awake.  It seems as if I've just been transported in time from pre-op to recovery, with seemingly nothing have happened when I awake. They could have thrown me off a cliff and spent a century rebuilding me for all I know, other than my sensation is it all happened instantaneously.  Also, I've never had any dreams under anesthesia. 

I'm curious what the experience of others has been.  Here's an interesting older article, touching upon some different things.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/apr/16-could-dose-ether-contain-secret-consciousness

Maybe an interesting topic for Art's new show.




Yorkshire pud

I've been under general anaesthetic a few times too. Exactly the same as your experiences you've had. Lights out..wake up groggy.

Who

Same here.  One time they told me to count backward from 10.  Ten, nine . . . . next thing I knew I was slowly waking up back in my room.  It seemed instantaneous with nothing in between. 


aldousburbank

Watch out for the K holes is all I can say.

ItsOver

Quote from: Doctor Who on May 25, 2015, 10:14:26 AM
Same here.  One time they told me to count backward from 10.  Ten, nine . . . . next thing I knew I was slowly waking up back in my room.  It seemed instantaneous with nothing in between.
The last time, they just told me they were giving me something to relax me.  That's the last thing I remember before I popped awake in recovery.  The entire experience is quite different from sleeping.  It reminds me of the movie "Flatliners," with the way it's so different, but no strange experiences while knocked-out.  Yet.  ;)

MV/Liberace!

I've never had any surgery of any kind. Knock on wood.

3OctaveFart

Flatliners was a very interesting concept, could have been executed so much better than to "go back" and resolve daddy/bullying issues.
Appendectomy in 2007.
Remember talking to an attendant about Star Trek while on a wheeled stretcher, by then in the far reaches of space, and waking up to a very kind black nurse serving me breakfast.

It was the same for me, it could have been out for hours or days for all I knew.  The best part was the 30 seconds or so after the IV goes in, I was in la-la land before blacking out, that drug is powerful whatever it is.

Quote from: ItsOver on May 25, 2015, 09:58:07 AM
Like a number of folks, I've been under anesthesia for various medical procedures over the years.  Maybe it's just me, but the procedure seems to have really improved.  I've noticed two things in particular.  One, once the procedure starts, I'm there one second and completely gone the next.  I don't have any sensation of gradually going under.  It's as if an off switch for my brain was flipped and it's goodbye world.

Second, I have no sense of time, similar to what I have when I've been asleep and realize time has passed when I awake.  It seems as if I've just been transported in time from pre-op to recovery, with seemingly nothing have happened when I awake. They could have thrown me off a cliff and spent a century rebuilding me for all I know, other than my sensation is it all happened instantaneously.  Also, I've never had any dreams under anesthesia. 

I'm curious what the experience of others has been.  Here's an interesting older article, touching upon some different things.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/apr/16-could-dose-ether-contain-secret-consciousness

Maybe an interesting topic for Art's new show.

The times I have been administered anesthesia, the experiences precisely mirror yours. It's actually quite remarkable. I remember awakening a couple of times and thinking, "there's no way they could have had time to do any surgery on me. I just blinked my eyes."

Today, unless it's major surgery, it's rare to be put fully under. The last several surgeries I have had, I was given a spinal block, or some combination of local anesthetics and hypnotic cocktail.

ItsOver

Quote from: Meatie Pie on May 25, 2015, 12:10:34 PM
Flatliners was a very interesting concept, could have been executed so much better than to "go back" and resolve daddy/bullying issues.
Appendectomy in 2007.
Remember talking to an attendant about Star Trek while on a wheeled stretcher, by then in the far reaches of space, and waking up to a very kind black nurse serving me breakfast.
I agree about the execution of "Flatliners."  I did like the cinematography, the campus setting, and the general atmosphere of the film, though.

With people who supposedly have an after-life experience, "dying" during surgery, with their vital signs nil,  I wonder how and why you'd suddenly go from the sense of anaesthetic-nothingness to an awareness of some sort that's an ALE or OBE?

If there is no after-life, it seems my experience with anaesthesia has given me something close to a taste of the essence of "not being."


Just had surgery Friday. I remember waking up and a man trying to put mask over my face and tried moving my head and pushed his arm. I was trying to breath but couldn't. Obviously this was terrifying, it was over in a few seconds. I think the tube was still down my throat which is why I couldn't breath.

ItsOver

Quote from: nooryisawesome on May 25, 2015, 12:59:14 PM
Just had surgery Friday. I remember waking up and a man trying to put mask over my face and tried moving my head and pushed his arm. I was trying to breath but couldn't. Obviously this was terrifying, it was over in a few seconds. I think the tube was still down my throat which is why I couldn't breath.
Wow, scary.  I hope everything turned out OK.

I've been fortunate.  The only issue I've had was with an endoscopy back in the 90's.  I wasn't completely out and could sense the scope in my throat and hear the doctor and nurses.  Ever since, my experience has been complete lack of awareness and sense of self.

Who

Quote from: ItsOver on May 25, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
I agree about the execution of "Flatliners."  I did like the cinematography, the campus setting, and the general atmosphere of the film, though.

With people who supposedly have an after-life experience, "dying" during surgery, with their vital signs nil,  I wonder how and why you'd suddenly go from the sense of anaesthetic-nothingness to an awareness of some sort that's an ALE or OBE?

If there is no after-life, it seems my experience with anaesthesia has given me something close to a taste of the essence of "not being." /Flatliners+Costume+Party.jpg[/img]

Each of my anesthesia experiences has been a nothingness experience.  I did have an NDE when I was a child and, like Art Bell, a spontaneous OBE as an adult. both totally different from the nothingness of anesthesia.   Perhaps we should start an NDE/OBE thread? I looked for one but didn't see one.  It could be an interesting thread. 

3OctaveFart

I have wondered if those who died during routine surgery were given the proverbial choice, after seeing the proverbial light.
Wife's grandmother passed during cataract surgery.

Who

Quote from: Meatie Pie on May 25, 2015, 01:13:19 PM
I have wondered if those who died during routine surgery were given the proverbial choice, after seeing the proverbial light.
Wife's grandmother passed during cataract surgery.

I believe they do.  That's really strange about your wife's grandmother.  Cataract surgery is bloodless and those undergoing it just receive a mild sedative as opposed to general anesthesia.  Perhaps it was just coincidence and it was her time to go? I'll bet her opthalmologist was shocked.

I have read a number of books on NDE's including the classic Life After Life by Raymond Moody.  It's a fascinating book and a quick read.   One of the Best NDE books I have read is Consciousness Beyond Life by Dr. Pim van Lommel, a Dutch cardiologist.  I highly recommend it if you're interested in NDEs and the nature of consciousness.

I've never had a problem "going under," but have had really bad hallucinations after waking.
I've talked to spiders, watched nurses and doctors walk through walls, argued with wall paper patterns, and once asked an orderly if he was God.
I usually cannot physically move for what seems like Eternity....A particularly terrifying experience. 
Anytime they use the word "elective," I say "NO!"

ItsOver

Quote from: Treading Water on May 25, 2015, 03:58:34 PM
I've never had a problem "going under," but have had really bad hallucinations after waking.
I've talked to spiders, watched nurses and doctors walk through walls, argued with wall paper patterns, and once asked an orderly if he was God.
I usually cannot physically move for what seems like Eternity....A particularly terrifying experience. 
Anytime they use the word "elective," I say "NO!"
Interesting.  Sounds like an LSD trip, with some aspect of sleep paralysis.  ;)  But, heck, anesthesia is a mind-altering drug.

No real side-effects, so far, for me.  I wake-up fine, probably better than from a normal sleep, with no nausea or strange things.  I just find the experience somewhat surreal.  As I mentioned, it's as if I had a switch and the doctor just flipped it to off and then back to on.  Not being a believer in prior life's, it's as if I went to where I was in 1800.  Nowhere.

onan

Quote from: ItsOver on May 25, 2015, 05:31:42 PM
Interesting.  Sounds like an LSD trip, with some aspect of sleep paralysis.  ;)  But, heck, anesthesia is a mind-altering drug.

No real side-effects, so far, for me.  I wake-up fine, probably better than from a normal sleep, with no nausea or strange things.  I just find the experience somewhat surreal.  As I mentioned, it's as if I had a switch and the doctor just flipped it to off and then back to on.  Not being a believer in prior life's, it's as if I went to where I was in 1800.  Nowhere.
A subset of people that have been administered anesthesia have psychotic symptoms afterward. Sometimes it is only minutes, sometimes can be days.

Awareness is similar to a gray scale.



At either end of the scale it is pretty apparent what the state is. However as one descends the level of awareness things become harder to define. And when the concept of memory is added it becomes a philosophical and physiological quagmire. One of the issues with "losing time" while under anesthesia is anesthesia isn't just something that blocks pain and puts someone to sleep. In today's anesthesia there is also a component to hinder memory and/or wipe it.

I too thought Flatliners was an interesting concept about what makes us, us. And where do we exist. Do we inhabit a body and an environment? Or is there another component? I pretty much lean away from other components, but it is damned interesting to think about.

ItsOver

Thanks, Onan.  I was hoping you'd weigh in.  I can see where science would be interested in anesthesia not only from the aspect of putting one under for a medical procedure but also for further studying the fascinating aspects of consciousness.  I didn't start thinking about it until after some recent procedures. 

3OctaveFart

Doctor Who, thank you for the book recs. Always wanted something other than Noory's childlike take on the hereafter.

Flatliners was intelligent enough and daring, and IIRC totally secular in tone.
Maybe a similar movie can do better. Worth a try.

Quote from: Treading Water on May 25, 2015, 03:58:34 PM
I've never had a problem "going under," but have had really bad hallucinations after waking.
I've talked to spiders, watched nurses and doctors walk through walls, argued with wall paper patterns, and once asked an orderly if he was God.
I usually cannot physically move for what seems like Eternity....A particularly terrifying experience. 
Anytime they use the word "elective," I say "NO!"

I was alright after waking up. I was in a lot of pain so I received some pain killers. I kept asking my wife where our cat was, and that I wanted her to bring our cat to me. We don't even own a cat.

My decent into death when Art had on Howard Storm was really good.

Grov505th

I have been under 3 times for various reason:
The first time was to get my wisdom teeth removed, I woke half way thru and scared the Dentist..I remember hearing him say " why is head moving" and " Give him more"
the second time was to have me shoulder repaired, I remember doing the count down and having a dream of throwing up everywhere...It wasn't a dream. Nurse told me that during the surgery my blood pressure started to drop rapidly and they had to sew me up fast and in recover it dropped really really low and then i lost my lunch...the kept pumping IV's into me, said it scared them and they thought I was going to die...was told i was allergic to the anesthesia and had to warn any other Dr.
third time was a piece of cake, woke up asking for my wife ( call her monkey) and they thought I was asking for money.....

There's a number of videos online of people acting weird coming out of anesthesia, strangely enough there's videos of them getting put under too but I guess everything is on YouTube now.  When they act loopy it's because of any painkillers used during surgery and the nitrous oxide for dental work, the drug to put you under is a seamless waking to unconscious and back again that's really quite strange to experience and if used alone during routine procedures there's no after effects. 

As the others have said it makes one wonder just where we go during that time.  Art on an old show called dreamless sleep "a little slice of death", anesthesia is like that and in fact the drugs used for it suppress REM sleep.  The one most commonly used now is called propofol and it's the drug that killed Michael Jackson, but some experts believe that what really killed him is a lack of REM sleep after 60 straight days of injections.  It's interesting that researchers still know so little about the mysteries of sleep and unconsciousness to this day.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/showbiz/jackson-death-trial

Quote from: Grov505th on May 26, 2015, 06:37:49 AM
was told i was allergic to the anesthesia and had to warn any other Dr.

They're sometimes give you a little bit first to test if you're allergic, they did that with me and it felt pretty damn amazing - I can see why someone could get addicted to it.  :)
Here's a video which I believe is related to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp-hBf2SHWg

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